32: Are Funerals Regulated? Unveiling The Complexities Of The Funeral Industry

Join us as we delve into the intricacies of the funeral industry, discussing the frameworks that aim to maintain and ensure ethical standards and safeguard customer interests. We unravel the complexity that shape the way funerals are conducted. 

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Email – Liftingthelid@gseller.co.uk
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Transcript

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Hi, I'm Andy Eeley, Senior Funeral Director for G. Seller Independent Funeral Directors, and we've been serving bereaved families since 1910. I'm sure you're all well aware there's lots of different myths, taboos, and misconceptions around what happens behind the scenes within the funeral profession. So we decided to put together this series of podcasts to answer those questions and hopefully dispel those myths. So please do like, share, and subscribe, and send those questions. Send them to liftingthelid@gseller. co. uk, and we will do our absolute best to answer them for you. It genuinely is our family caring for your family. Welcome to the latest episode of Lifting the Lid. Today, I have with me the CEO of the NAFD, and that's Andrew Judd. How are you, Andrew? Very well, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Today, we're going to be talking about: are funerals regulated? First and foremost, I think we should introduce ourselves to Andrew or him introduce himself to us. Just tell us a bit about yourself, Andrew, your role in the NAFD? How you came into funerals? Okay, so I came into funerals when I was 14 years of age. I got a Saturday job at a fourth-generation family firm in the village that I lived at in West Wales. I was fascinated by the work of funeral directors from an early age, and I wanted to learn more about it. Every time I asked grownups about funerals and death, they just changed the subject. If you're like me, that's not enough. So I actually got a job washing cars, trimming coffins, cleaning up. I thought I had the best Saturday job in the world. People are always interested when you work in the funeral sector, and young people, particularly, they'd say, "Well, why would you do that? How can you do that?" It was a really important lesson for me to say that someone has to do it, and how it's done is really, really important. That sense of being part of a local community and caring for people has stayed with me throughout my career. I've worked in small family businesses. I've worked in large, ferociously independent businesses. I've spent some time in cooperatives, and I've spent some time in large consolidators. At the end of the day, it's the job that we do that matters. Absolutely. It's the people that do the job that matter. I think all that experience stands you in good stead for your current role. That's obviously the CEO of the NAFD, so the National Association of Funeral Directors. So your role there, what does that encompass? Okay, well, the the NAFD is a trade association. We've been established for 120 years, and our job is to guide the funeral sector, to advocate best practice and to share learnings amongst our members. It's really important that we are able to accommodate different types of funeral directors. One of our core values is inclusivity. Yeah. We encourage funeral directors to concentrate on the job they do and the way that they do it rather than who they are or how they're structured. Of the roughly 6,000 trading locations in the UK, over 4,000 of them are in our membership. It gives us a voice and it gives us an influence. But every funeral matters. For NAFD, we're very, very keen to make sure that we keep expanding the appeal of our Trade Association so that all funeral directors feel welcome. Absolutely. Everyone. In terms of what we actually do, well, we're a Trade Association, so we're going to talk probably later, I'm sure, about a bit more of the policy and regulation side of things. Yeah, that's what we're coming on to. But we do other things, Andy. We brought education to the funeral sector, so we have a whole suite of vocational professional qualifications. Well aware of them. Just worn the cap and gown. Yeah, I know. I saw you there. Congratulations, by the way. To have the students and to share that moment of pride at conference I spoke about the future of the funeral sector, and it's in your hands, and it's our job to help that journey. But we also provide a much wider approach to learning and development. Professional qualifications aren't for everybody. But getting better at what you do and learning, that should be for everybody. We concentrate very hard on that. We look after a really robust complaints framework so that clients and funeral directors have support and have guidance when things go wrong. They don't go wrong very often in the funeral sector, but like any profession, sometimes things do go wrong. For us, it's really important to support the clients and the funeral directors, but it's also important to learn, to learn from things that have gone wrong. That's where we can shape our education and our inspection regimes. We do lots of member benefit things as a trade association, and we've worked really hard on setting up a new gold partner programme, which we talked about at conference, which means that members of the NAFD can secure an endorsed and a credible service so that they can enjoy the benefits of being part of a trade association, and also our supplier members who are really, really important to the NAFD to bring new things, to bring better things for the experience of bereaved people. We've been able to to work very closely with. Our membership goes far beyond funeral directors, and it goes far beyond the shores of the UK. We've got overseas members all around the world, and the NAFD has quite a powerful influence, both to share what we do and to learn from what others do. Sharing best practise, I guess, isn't it across everyone? Yeah. There are differences around the world, but there's far more that we share in common. We also, as you would have seen at the conference, it's important for us to bring people together. That's what NAFD was set up to do. It was to bring people with a common sense of passion and purpose. That's what we do. We run events, we run training courses, we run webinars, and we are working with a number of external organisations at the moment to do just that. We extend our appeal far beyond funeral directors. There are lots of people that want to learn about the funeral sector. There are lots of universities that want to work with us, lots of NHS trusts. We've earned the place as the go-to people, and we take that responsibility very seriously. We claim to be the voice of the profession, but we also want to be the voice of the bereaved and the deceased. That's where we're heading. Excellent. Yeah, it's a good journey. We'd like to pause and take a moment to mention our partner for this podcast, Golden Charter. This podcast contains promotional messages about funeral planning. G. Seller & Company Limited is an appointed representative of Golden Charter Limited, trading as Golden Charter Funeral Plans, which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. We know it's never easy to think about death, but there are several good reasons why having a funeral plan makes perfect sense. From an emotional, practical, and financial point of view, planning your funeral in advance is a chance to take control, feel prepared, and get peace of mind for you and the ones you care about. We work in partnership with Golden Charter, one of the UK's largest funeral plan providers who have over 30 years experience and have helped over 900,000 people plan ahead for their funeral. Working together, G. Seller and Golden Charter can offer you the personal service and support when it matters most and the reassurance and the security of a leading funeral plan provider. We're going to talk about regulation. So unlike yourself, I'm relatively new to the funeral profession, about 10, 11 years. I've lost track of the number now, to be honest with you. I was genuinely shocked to discover that having two weeks' worth of experience within the funeral profession, in theory, I could go and set up by myself with no qualifications, no prior experience, no real knowledge. I could call myself a funeral director. So are there any current regulations? There is regulation in the funeral sector, but at the moment, that comes through trade associations. It's an elective regulation. People can choose whether or not they want to operate under scrutiny, or they can choose not to operate under scrutiny. Whilst we're very pleased that funeral directors do choose to operate under scrutiny, there are some funeral directors that choose to operate outside of it. There has been standards and inspection and regulation, but I think that elective word is probably what we struggle with. As a trade association, we have rules. We have rules about the standards of the business that want to join us. We also have rules for the businesses that are members. At the moment, we can expel a member if we feel that they're not performing to the standards of the NAFD. But what does that achieve? If we expel a member, then nobody's watching what they're doing. Of course, the profession has been under scrutiny at the moment in the press. It has. There has been regulation, and the NAFD started the whole thing. In 1904, NAFD decided, we need some consistency of standards and care. Let's get funeral directors working together. But there isn't a statutory regulation to support the work of the Trade Associations, and that's what we're looking at. But there has been some government involvement in the sector. We saw that with the Competition and Markets Authority and their calls for transparency about funeral directors pricing. Now, members of the National Association of Funeral Directors always had to be transparent about pricing. Yeah, by the code of practice that we adhere to. But there was no overarching requirement for funeral directors to display their prices in a particular way. The CMA were interested in the sector, and we welcome their interest in the sector in the same way that we welcome the scrutiny of the Financial Conduct Authority, who obviously have looked at the whole funeral planning market. There is interest, but at this moment in time, there is a much wider interest now at government level about the need to safeguard people and consistency in what is a really, really important part of what we do. But going back to your comment, you don't have to be trained to operate as a funeral director. You don't have to reach any particular standard in terms of quality of operation or your facilities or the people that you employ. You can buy a hearse off eBay if you want to. Yeah, that's true. Do you know what I mean? Whilst we are advocates of market forces and new entrants to the market, we do feel there has to be some rules. People generally think that you have to be qualified, that you have to have a licence, that not just anyone can become a funeral director. You and I both know that's not the case. I think the funeral profession and the sector as a whole deserves better than that, Andy. Yeah, I agree. We at G. Seller, we welcome regulation. Really, we stick strictly to that code of practise in the NAFD, and we obviously are part of that. On the horizon then, is this something that we're working towards? Is this going to happen? Are we going to be regulated as a profession? We are working very closely with the government at the moment on that exact point. You have to be careful what you wish for. We've talked about our conference in Winsor, and I spent quite a lot of time with a funeral director and embalmer from America. Now, in America, they are regulated, but they have different regulations between different states. Actually, that is a really, really difficult way to operate. So what we're saying, let's do this once, let's do it properly. But if you just reflect back to COVID and different rules and regulations between different home nations, what we're saying is death's a great leveller. There are some core standards and procedures that matter wherever you are. Let's work with the government to shape something that's proportionate so that it doesn't favour small or large operators, but it's something that everyone can get behind. Let's create something that has the ability to be improved and adapted. But most importantly, let's create something that fits our funeral sector. That can only be done by working with trade associations, and we're working in partnership with our friends at SAFE so that the government get a consistent and a single message. What we don't want to happen is we do not want the government to pick up a framework that they've already used in another sector and say that we'll put that in place. You're working hard behind the scenes to make sure that the implementation is the right way, driven by the Trade Association. Driven by the Trade Association with the right- Funeral directors working together. Working together. But one of the things we found during COVID working quite closely with the cabinet, we worked well and supportively. Andy, people don't understand what funeral directors do. And that's not the general public's fault. It's our role as an association to encourage people to talk about death. And that's very difficult for some people to do. I understand that. But the consequence of not talking about it places, I think, both the deceased and those that mourn them and love them at risk. We want to start conversations about bereavement, but we want the government to use the knowledge and experience of the NAFD and the years that we've been in operation to shape whatever that regulation is going to look like, and most importantly, to give it teeth, that statutory regulation. Absolutely. Do you think the regulation, do you think it would impact the way a family arranges their loved one's funeral? No, I don't think it would. I don't think it would impact the way that the family arrange the funeral. But I think for me, it will highlight how important the choice of your funeral director is. It's an incredibly important choice who you use to arrange the funeral of a loved one. It's really important that the funeral director that you choose puts the control in your hands about what you want to have. Absolutely. You may have heard me talk previously. You get one chance. You get one chance to arrange a funeral. You can get married again, you can get baptised or christened whenever you feel that's a decision for you to take. You get one chance to arrange a funeral. If you don't get that right, Unfortunately, you live with the consequence of it. Our job as a profession is to help people get it right, whatever they want to do. Funeral directors are very, very good at saying, yes, we can do that or we'll find a way. But I personally, having been a practising funeral director throughout my career and continuing to arrange and conduct funerals whenever I could, right up until joining the NAFD, your relationship with your funeral director is a really important. Really, really important. Meet them, go to see them, talk to them about what you want, ask them, ask them how they run their business, ask them how they're going to care for loved one. If possible, ask to see the facilities. Ask about the people who will be caring for their loved one, because as we said earlier, people will just assume things, and there are good funeral directors, and there are not so good funeral directors. The statutory regulation will ensure that people can trust their funeral director. Absolutely. Being a member of a trade association like the NAFD gives that reassurance, but we don't think that funeral directors should operate outside of framework at the moment. So it shouldn't change the choice. It shouldn't change. It's really important. If you ask someone who's a funeral for? Is it for the person who's died? Is it for their family that are left behind? Is it for the wider community and the people that have known them at different stages of their life? It's for all of those people. Yeah. It is a big responsibility to arrange a funeral because you're trying to meet all those needs. But because it's a big responsibility, your funeral director will help you get it right. Personally, whether you know people that you're working with or whether they're clients you've never met before, you become an intrinsic part of that family for a period of maybe five to six weeks. Yeah, you do. They will never forget what you do for them. That's a privilege, but it is a responsibility. My overarching message to people is, think really carefully about your funeral director. I completely agree with you. Do the research. The potential consequences if the funeral profession, if it isn't regulated in the future, what are your thoughts there, both for the families and for the actual funeral directors themselves? Well, that worries me. It worries me because at the moment, funeral directors can operate outside of scrutiny and oversight, which means that the clients are not protected, that the deceased are not protected, and the funeral directors are not protected. I don't think that anyone should be able to perform such a fundamental societal role without conforming to a consistent set of standards. There needs to be flexibility in approach. There are different types of funeral directors out there, and the society that we serve on different things from their funeral directors. People might want to hold funerals that are very different now to their parents or their grandparents might have had. That's actually fine. That should happen. But there are some things that there shouldn't be any variation in. Most of those, Andy, are unseen to the general public. Yeah, behind the scenes. It's behind the scenes. We want to put a value to clients on the safeguarding of deceased people. Safeguarding of deceased people is not just in funeral home settings. It's in hospital mortuaries, it's in coroner's mortuaries, it's in school of anatomy, it's wherever deceased people are. We have to be that conscience and that voice for them. I often talk about if you're lucky enough to have a choice, perhaps for care of an elderly loved one. If you want to find somewhere where perhaps the time has come for someone that you love, that can't live at home anymore, to go and live in a care home... you wouldn't just search the internet. You'd look at the options available. You'd go and visit them. You'd go inside. You'd get a feel for the atmosphere there. You'd get a feel for how the staff care. Is this the right place for my mum or my dad? Are they going to be interested here? Are they going to be entertained? Now, just because someone's passed away, you do not lose that sense of care. So if you think carefully about choices for them in life, don't draw a line when they've passed away. It's the last thing that you can do for somebody. A funeral director's hands are the last hands that care for that person. It's so, so important. As you can tell, it runs right through me. Get it right. Talk to your funeral director. It's a really big decision in life. Absolutely. That's why we're an integral part of the NAFD. You've only got one opportunity to get it right, and it has to be right. Care of deceased is absolutely paramount. Andrew, thank you. Thank you so much for your time. I know you have a busy schedule. I do. Could I just add one thing? Yeah, go on. I was going to ask you. But, yeah, absolutely. Just one thing, and this is about the art of the possible. Okay. NAFD and others have been working with the Scottish Government very carefully. Now, what's interesting about the Scottish Government is that they do now have a statutory code and a regulationary framework. That will become law in March of next year, and funeral directors will be required to have a licence to operate in Scotland. The comments that you made about anyone can do it, that will not be the case in Scotland. But we work very closely with other trade associations and the Scottish Government to create a code that fits the funeral sector. And what we're saying now in Westminster and Whitehall, and we're working very closely with the Welsh Assembly in Cardiff and the Northern Ireland Parliament, what we're saying is, let's use Scotland as an example. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. If we can get something that's proportionate, inclusive, and serves the needs of the bereaved in Scotland, let's learn from that, and we'd like to see it. We'd like to see it across England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. So there's some really encouraging signs coming out of Scotland. We are helping our Scottish members with CPD, with AI tools, making that code digestible and understandable in the way that they run their business. Our job will be to ensure that they are compliant and to help them get compliance. If we're creating something that works in Scotland, let's share it because that's what we're about. You mentioned it earlier. Absolutely. Sharing best practice. I'm hopeful. But now is the time. Now is the time for government. Now is the time for the funeral sector in general. We aim to be better today than we were yesterday, but we have to be better tomorrow than we are today. Let's seize the moment and face the future head on. Brilliant. I think we're in good hands. Thank you so much for your time. And thank you. We will see you next time. Of course, if you do have any questions, if you want to know more, please do email liftingthelid@gseller. co. uk, and we will do our best to answer them for you. Thank you.