33. Grief in the Classroom: Discovering a Compassionate Learning Environment Amidst the Challenge of Loss

In this episode we sit down with a dedicated teacher who shares their personal journey of navigating grief within the classroom. Through candid conversation, we explore the challenges of supporting grieving students , the impact of loss on the learning environment, and the strategies that can help foster resilience and healing.
Join us to gain valuable insights and practical tips on how educators can create a compassionate space for students dealing with grief. 
Whether you're an educator, parent, or simply interested in the intersection of education and emotional well-being, this episode offers a perspective on handling loss in the classroom. 

If you have any questions, here’s how to get in touch:
Instagram – @liftingthelidfuneralpodcast
Email – Liftingthelid@gseller.co.uk
Website – www.gseller.co.uk/podcast
Watch the episode on YouTube: Lifting The Lid - YouTube

Transcript

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Hi, I'm Andy Eeley, Senior Funeral Director for G. Seller Independent Funeral Directors, and we've been serving bereaved families since 1910. I'm sure you're all well aware there's lots of different myths, taboos and misconceptions around what happens behind the scenes within the funeral profession. So we decided to put together this series of podcasts to answer those questions and hopefully dispel those myths. So please do, like, share and subscribe and send those questions. Send them to liftingthelid@gseller. co. uk, and we will do our absolute best to answer them for you. It genuinely is our family caring for your family. Welcome to today's episode of Lifting the Lid. Today's episode is about grief in the classroom, and I'm joined by Mark Boast of the Hinckley school. How are you, Mark? I'm very well, thank you very much. Thank you for inviting me here. Thank you for being in that hot seat. Well, I feel relatively comfortable. Good, good, good. Mark. Head Teacher, Assistant Head Teacher at the Hinckley School. Tell me a bit about your story. Well, you just promoted me, thank you very much. There you go. Well, I am an Assistant Head Teacher, but I have been at, well, in that building for a long time, so I'm currently in my 27th year. The same school. Wow. Well, yeah, well, I came away, so you might notice from my accent, I'm not a local to the midlands. Okay. So I hail from East Suffolk, so right on the, right on the coastline over there. And I escaped Suffolk. Not that I don't love it, because I do, but I escaped Suffolk in the early nineties and got on a train over to Leicester to go to university there, where I studied biology. And I got my degree there. And I thought, I know one of those things come to the end of my degree. And I wasn't 100% certain where I wanted to go. I'd done lots of different things during that time, but I thought, okay, I'll do a teaching qualification. And I saw an advert for a school in Hinckley and that at the time, obviously being 27 years ago, was the John Cleveland College. So the legendary-I remember it. JCC as it was always known. Exactly. And they were kind enough, or maybe foolish enough to give me a job. And I was very young, I was just 24 years old then. And, yeah, I've been there ever since. But obviously the school has changed an awful lot in that time. It's gone through many manifestations. So, from JCC to the Hinckley Academy & John Cleveland Sixth Form Centre, very long title there. And then obviously now to the Hinckley school. But in that time, I've done so many different roles and been obviously involved with the education and working with thousands of students across this, this area, which I'm proud to say that I've done that. Still in contact with a lot of them, which is excellent. Teach some of the children of quite a lot of them as well. And now, yes, as you say, I'm Assistant Head Teacher at the Hinckley school and I'm responsible for, well, I teach biology, teach science. So I still do that. That's the bread and butter. But on top of that, as part of my role, I lead on personal development and careers across the school. So amongst that is obviously looking at, in terms of personal development is how, how we look at even sometimes issues like grief and relationships and all the many, myriad of things that are thrown at young people in today's world. Absolutely. So we want to touch on all aspects of grief. It's so different for different people. The journey. The grief journey. I mean, we've spoken to Tracy, one of my colleagues. It's vastly different. And being such a big part of that community, how does that work in the classroom? How does it affect you? Personally? Oh, crikey. What, grief in general? Yeah, it's a huge question. Totally off keel as well Yeah. No, it's fine. I don't know. It's kind of... I think over those years of working in a school, being in that privileged position to work with, you know, adults, parents, teachers, but. And other support staff, but also parents, obviously. And obviously the young people themselves, you... There is going to be somebody at some point that's grieving in your community and you know, because you're working with thousands of people and you get to understand that the way in which that affects people is so different because you witness it so, the way... And you can't generalize. Just because a person is young doesn't mean they're not going to be able to cope with grief very well. And just because a person's older, you know even an adult, you know myself, I can talk about my own experiences of that, but as an adult, that doesn't mean you're going to deal with the grief any better. Everybody is different. And this is what I have come to realize. And also the nature of where that grief has come from would lead to a different response from the person, but also in the support that we'd need to have to offer within the school community as well. Okay. We're going to touch on that in a minute, if that's okay. Do you think more pupils actually suffer with grief? More so than meets the eye? You know, perhaps hide it? I know as a child myself, I would have hidden everything and, you know, I'm the opposite. So, you know, people pretty much know what I am thinking and feeling most of the time because it just comes out of my mouth, that is. I think what we need to do within our school community is just. We do offer, you know, I'm really proud to say that we offer wraparound care to the kids. We have a community spirit and that's been recognised by the kids themselves, will tell you that. But it's about creating an environment where they feel willing to share that information with you if they want to. And they often will, because they feel part of the community and they have a very close relationship with their pastoral teams, they have a tutor, they have pastoral leaders and they would therefore not necessarily. I wouldn't say people are. The level of grief, I suspect will be, as it always has been. Do we find out more about it now? Maybe in some ways, because people may be more knowledgeable and kids have access to more on things online about. They'd be able to see that back in the day, you know, where would I find that information about dealing with grief? I might have to go to a library and find a book. Nowadays, everything's on the Internet. They have access to things that we didn't have access to, so. And that. But that's also in terms of the support mechanisms as well for students, because, you know, I myself, you know, I have experience of grief myself, I've witnessed it, but I'm not an expert in grief, so therefore, you know, if a student comes to me and they are expressing something in terms that I, obviously, I can empathise, but I'm not an expert. So, I always say that our role, and my role specifically is to support that child and make them feel that they have somebody to talk to. But also I would signpost them to a professional, you know, if they need thaIs t help. Is this something that all the teachers are capable of doing or do you have specific teachers? Is there is a particular bereavement team? There is no specific bereavement team, but we do have, within every school now, there's always going to be a wider safeguarding team that's looking out for the kids. Every teacher's role is safeguarding those children and I would say that we will signpost the kids to the support that they need. But that will be different for each kid. So we're saying some kids will need a lot of support and others will need less so. And a lot of that depends on what they experience at home as well. You know, if a kid has a very supportive home environment where they share information and they have access to services, you know, that would be different to a student who doesn't have that. And we'd obviously put things into place for them. We give them access to, we have in person counselling, we have access to online services, mental health, first aid workers, but not necessarily - there's no particular bereavement team, no. Because we have a kind of an encompassing, supportive pastoral system and because now our school runs from, we have a seven year, we talk about our seven year journey. So our plan always is what would always be for a student to join us in Year 7 when they're 11 years old. And then I stay all the way through, if they wish to, all the way through to Year 13. It has changed, hasn't it? It has changed and you get to know people very well and you get to support them, you get to know the families very well and you get to know what the needs of those people are and because they get to know you very well. And that's not just that they're teachers, but the wider teams of people they're more likely to share. So are students suffering from more grief? Probably not, but they might be more likely to express it, which would be good, because then that means that we'd be more likely to offer, direct them to better support, to deal with their grief, but also in the wider context. Sometimes those kinds of things expose more support for the family as well. And we are an educational establishment. No teacher is trained. When you go to teacher training college or at your university, nobody is trained in counselling or management of grief. You know, even. Even though suppose you should suspect you're going to have to sort of participate or experience that through, through your time as a teacher. But what we do do is ensure that we create that environment for the kids, that they feel safe. How do you create that environment? That's interesting. I'm just thinking back because this sounds like this has changed so much since back in the dark ages when I was at school. It wasn't that long ago. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was long enough. You be careful what you say because I was probably teaching when you were at school. Okay. Yeah. I can't put a number on it, but I do remember probably my first contact with grief. Yes. So a good friend of mine killed in a car crash. Yeah. Okay. From my recollection, absolutely no support whatsoever from the school not being derogatory to said school. It might be my memory blocking it out. It might be... Perhaps I wasn't close enough. I don't know, but it sounds totally different now. So I guess my question, how do you create? How have you done that? I think I've been teaching. I can sort of empathise, well more than. I can see what you talk about, because obviously I've worked in, not in this particular school, because it's so different now as the Hinckley school from when back in the day as John Cleveland College. But schools have changed full stop. So if you look at the education system has changed so much, so schools are not necessarily expected, but do. Because we see our job as being, you know, supporting our young people in whatever way we possibly can. Schools have become a place where more access to services have, have actually appeared, I suppose. So we do offer, as I said, we offer counselling services to students, but we also extend that to the parents as well. So schools are becoming far more of a community hub, I guess, if anything. So, one thing I would say this is something we work very closely with the Hinckley and Bosworth Borough Council, and it's in its infancy, actually, at this moment in time, but we are actually creating ourselves as a community hub for services, so that things like, if we have the situation where a student required counselling for whatever means, but say, bereavement counselling, there was need for the parents as well to access services, they'd be able to do that through the school. It is different because we're becoming far more of a focal point for support to families, because, you know, it's just a role that we feel that we can help out in terms of creating a caring, supportive environment. We have amazing staff, so not only our teachers, but the supportive, pastoral staff that work day in, day out, those people are often not teachers, so they're on hand all the time and they're dealing with the day to day things that aren't necessarily the educational things that we're dealing with in terms of learning, with the teaching staff, but also we have safeguarding staff as well. So those things did. It was sort of back in the dark ages, it was a bit more ad hoc, whereas nowadays I think it's far more structured to ensure that you will hear about safeguarding being mentioned in the news all the time. So, we are constantly trying to ensure that those children are safe at all times. Now, the reach outside of school is obviously you're limited to what you do, but we are also. What goes on outside of school often comes into school. So they'll tell us what's happening so we can look out for them. And that's why they, they become to feel part of that community and will share with you and feel safe because it is an environment where they know that they will be looked after. I guess it's sort of society in general now is everyone's more aware of everything. Yeah. And you're right in terms of your experience at school with having a friend who passes away, the most, as I said, experience of grief throughout school is far reaching. Now, I've, as I say, I've been there for 27 years. So you would expect for working in a school for that period of time, I will have experienced death. You know, I've experienced the passing of both of my parents in that time. I've experienced the loss of colleagues through illness or through accident. And the most traumatic thing, of course, is being in a school setting when a student dies, you know, through whatever. Whatever reason. But it does affect what I've seen and observed - it does tend to affect the, often the, not the grief process, but the actual what actually happens within the school. There's always a supportive. If a student dies, there's a massive support network. Is that support for you as well as the students? Oh, no, definitely. We're all given access to the same. Okay, so any services that are available to a student would be available to teachers as well. But say we've had students obviously pass away through illness, through accident, and the most traumatic, I suppose, is through suicide. But thankfully, those occasions over the 27 years have been very, very scarce. But as I was talking to one of your colleagues earlier on about the fact that even so having worked here for so long, and I have kept in contact with a lot of students over the years, I see them, and they're also a lot of them are parents of kids I teach. So when you become part of that big community and people, you see people, obviously. Again, sadly, I've had students that I have taught in the past who subsequently, since leaving school, have passed away. And it still has an effect on you because you have a bond with. When you spend a lot of time with children you know back at JCC, back in those days, it was a two, maybe four year process. Yeah. But now a teacher potentially could teach a child for seven years and there could be a tutor of that child, you know, and so they spend a lot of time together and you do and you have a kind of. You become a person in that. You become a feature in that person's life. Whether you like it or not, you do. We've got bearevement care team. They look after the families that we have the privilege of supporting for the funeral. The level of aftercare doesn't stop as the funeral finishes. We want to carry on to support that family, but there's the precursor to it as well, and exploring and putting that level of care into schools and helping support you as teachers, support the students/pupils. What are your thoughts there? Do you think that's something that would assist you? So take perhaps that stress of having to do it yourself. Schools are always... Schools are always happy to take support from external agencies or external groups of people, especially if they're in a position where they're very qualified to, to do that. I think it's more about. I'm not saying that we don't touch on grief in the stuff that we do, because what the children have to understand is that this is something you are going to experience. For staff as well. Clearly would suffer bereavement as well. What's the level of support from your perspective as teachers? Do you support one another? Is there a level of care there? Definitely. And one thing I would say is that one thing you never suffer with as a teacher is solitude. You're never on your own. Sometimes I crave to be on my own. I'm not often on my own because you have hundreds of people, but this is another thing and that you. I've always worked as a teacher, so you don't really. You don't really get. You don't sometimes. And Covid was a good example, when that whole thing's taken away from you, that community thing, when you have all these people around you all the time, so you don't realise how important having a large group around you can be as an individual, as an adult, but also that must be the same thing for young people as well. Brilliant. Just going back onto the classroom, onto the pupils - that need for privacy alongside creating that supportive environment. How do you balance that? Are there any specific challenges, any misconceptions about grief? You know, you've got such a cross section of ages there. I'm sure it would vary. Yeah. I say there's no - you can't generalise how grief is going to affect somebody, so we tend to work on a need to know basis. This is in terms of privacy. If somebody passed - not every member of that school community needs to know if somebody's passed away. So it's the conversation, the conversation you have with the person who is in that position of grief. They are the. There are people that need to know the people, directly supporting that child, they need to know. But also in terms of wider knowledge of what somebody's going through. No, you wouldn't share that, you know. Absolutely phenomenal amount of information there. Your support, the support, the level of care that you as a school give your pupils and each other from the sounds of things. Yeah. And the community. So it's becoming far more outreaching and this is something we pride ourselves on and I think it'll become even more so as the school goes through multiple 7-year journeys with these children. Yeah, kind of start again. And let's say this is the big change for us in terms of you have that connection with a family for a long period of time. So I think it's something we can absolutely help with the future, with the bereavement care, the support from our colleagues just to help support you and support that community, that wider picture. I suppose the thing is, you know, in Hinckley for especially, you know, most, on most occasions when there's been a bereavement which I've been involved with, it would be your company obviously being in the centre of Hinckley that many of those occasions that I've attended, you know, it's been through your service. Yeah, yeah. And it's, it does make. And one thing I found very interesting actually was I'm, I'm out on the rounds doing promotion for school. Okay. So obviously the Hinckley sixth form is the best sixth form in the area- Good plug there! Yeah. Everybody needs to go to. And when we are promoting going around, we obviously are often at fairs and we are seeing employers there. We have now started to see Sellers there as an employer, which I think is a really interesting, in terms of, with my different hat on in terms of careers, just highlighting to students what the opportunities are in different sectors. And I don't think we would have seen that before. I don't think apart from the last couple of years, I don't think I ever would have seen an undertaker going into careers fairs promoting. But no, it's essential. Something that we are trying, same for this podcast, raise awareness. It's not a taboo, it's not hidden. There's nothing sinister. People have to be involved with it, so we want to share it basically. Yeah. And this is, and I say if we're trying to. When you talk about learning about grief in schools and potential for people putting it into a curriculum, it's like any of these topics that are often deemed as being sensitive. They're often the ones that people don't talk about a lot and oracy and talking is the foundation to all of the learning. So we get people talking about everything, contentious issues especially. There's nothing better than having a good debate about something. Yep, that's true. So we want people to be talking about these issues. So if they see at a careers fair, an undertaker, they're more likely to have a conversation with somebody about why are they here and what do they do. And also, then, if you are. If the conversations emerge about grief and people are expressing what their thoughts are about it, not only do you have the opportunity to sort of inadvertently support people, I guess, but also you can address misconceptions about things. Mark, this is brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. That's all right. Brilliant insight there into the. I mean, the support that you give, the support that you receive. I personally feel that we could expand that and we'd love to be part of that. Thank you so much for your time. So, yeah, please do, like, share, subscribe. Any questions, please email them to liftingthelid@gseller. co. uk. We do our best to answer them for you and, yeah, we'll see you next time. Thank you, Mark.