039: Why Being Perfect is a Terrible Idea

The podcast explores the idea of perfectionism and its drawbacks, focusing on how the pursuit of perfection can hinder progress and growth. The hosts discuss the misconception that perfectionism equates to excellence, highlighting how it actually stems from a fear of failure and a reluctance to take risks. They emphasize the importance of embracing the learning journey and sharing experiences, regardless of expertise level, to accelerate growth and connect with others. The conversation encourages listeners to let go of self-imposed labels and fears of judgment in order to unlock their full potential.

Connect with Mike Chang:
- Instagram: @mikechangofficial
-Youtube: Mike Chang
- Website: www.flow60.com

Connect with Stephen Yeh:
-Instagram: @iamstephenyeh
-Twitter: @iamstephenyeh

Transcript

Stephen (00:01.411)
Mm.

mike (00:02.934)
This is Mike Chang, your host with your cohost, Stephen Yeh. So today we're going to talk about the subject. Why being perfect is a terrible idea. A lot of times we think that we are looking at how good somebody looks, how awesome somebody's life is. And we think this is the perfect life. This is the perfect scenario. I want to be like that. But the idea of

Being a perfectionist, which a lot of people actually hold really high in esteem, they're almost like really proud to say I'm a perfectionist as if. What they are really saying is that I do good work, but in reality, it's almost the complete opposite.

When we are seeing ourselves as a perfectionist, what we're really saying is that I'm not okay with trying something out. I'm not okay with making mistakes. I'm not okay with failing. So we have to ask ourselves the question, if you're not okay with failing, how many times have you tried? How many bats are you actually going for? Right? How much experience do you really have?

When you talk to somebody who's got a lot of experience under their belt, who's done a lot. If you had a conversation with anybody that has done a lot in anything, and you ask them about their failures, they're going to tell you all about it. So when someone goes, I'm a perfectionist, which means you can't be a perfectionist if you constantly fail. Now a person is stopping themselves from actually being good as something they want to be good at.

And I think this is something that we see very often when people are wanting to start their own business, um, wanting to go and pursue, uh, pursue a new passion, um, social media is such a popular thing, you know, YouTube being is like a, you know, YouTube being just creating content is a business. It's a job. It's something that people do. And people run into this as well as probably one of the biggest ones. I need to know more, be more, learn more, have more, you know,

mike (02:14.762)
so that I can be ready to share because I'm a perfectionist and I want to make sure everything looks good.

mike (02:45.162)
Yeah, you can go ahead. You can start from here.

Stephen (02:52.792)
So Mike, as you talk about this, this is something that I can feel inside of myself, right? Because essentially, we've had a couple different discussions around this and there comes a point where eventually I do want to share more on social media, on Instagram, TikTok, whatever it is. But at the same time, I feel like it's just not really something that I wanna do right now.

Right, I wanna share more about health, about physicality, about being more mobile. But it feels like, at least for me, my first stage is to go through that journey as almost completely as I can right now. And then from that point, start to share, right? Because maybe it's a kind of an old school way of thinking or more so in like the martial arts field.

or it's like you don't really teach until you're a black belt. And then you really start to share with others once you're at that point. But there are different schools of thought, right? And essentially, I guess right now, I'm more so going more towards that route. So in that case, what do you feel and what are your thoughts around this?

mike (04:16.114)
Well, I think it's exactly what we're talking about, right? I need to be a black belt in order to share. We can consider a black belt to be closer to the side of perfect. Closer to the side of mastery, right? Perfection, mastery, it's the same thing. So I think this makes sense if somebody is sharing for, when they're sharing and they're saying that I am a master at this thing that I'm sharing about.

But now in days content is shared often just about the journey. It's just about the journey of getting there. I can go, Hey, I'm a white belt. And let me share my journey. It's like, that is actually a really, really popular approach in content. You know, you know, have you ever seen the headlines? I survived this, this thing with this person or this thing. You know, I spent seven days in this thing. What are they saying? Are they saying I'm perfect? I'm a master or the complete opposite.

Stephen (04:52.269)
Mm.

mike (05:15.926)
Right. I'm a total beginner. Watch how I got my butt kicked. Watch how I suffered. And these type of videos are very interesting and people really, people really can connect to it. And so therefore this old school thinking of sharing only as a master of something, an expert in something. That's an idea of the past. The new way of content.

Stephen (05:23.54)
Hmm.

mike (05:45.346)
is just sharing, just find something to share. Whether you are a master at something, share that. Whether you are a beginner at something, share that. And so you see, in people like that, they're not trying to be masters at that thing. It's almost like they're saying, I'm a beginner. I'm a beginner at this, at this, at this, and I'm gonna share with you my beginner experience at this, and this.

Stephen (06:04.192)
Mm.

mike (06:14.846)
It's like, imagine I made a video that's like, you know, I survive seven days and, uh, in ballet class, you know, and they see how I'm just made a full of myself trying to, trying to do these things that they're doing, you know, or I survived, you know, seven days on the ocean fishing. And you just see me like, I'm terrible on the boat, you know, and you see me throwing up constantly and, you know, I mean, I don't have my sea legs. Right. So that's a huge thing nowadays.

Stephen (06:24.024)
Hmm

mike (06:43.89)
And again, this is when somebody can really just let go of the idea that they need to be a master at something and just be able to share.

Stephen (06:51.34)
I mean, I guess here's the difference though, right? Because to be on social media, essentially you're, let's say, identifying yourself as a content creator. For me, myself, even at this point, I don't see myself as a huge content creator. I see myself more as like a person looking to master a certain art. And maybe I can share from that journey.

is my evolution, my roads to that particular point. Right, so there's an aspect of that. But more so, I think I share with you all the time, like one of my greatest joy is just to train, is just to continue, is to exercise, is to learn more about my breath and explore my body. So that is a huge...

driving motivator for me compared to spending the time to get on social media and share from there. And I think that's one of the big blocks.

mike (08:01.334)
Well, if you think about spending the time.

Imagine this, what time does it take to go ahead and turn on the camera and go live and just film? Right? It doesn't take any time.

Stephen (08:13.483)
Mm.

mike (08:17.318)
If a person really wants to go and master something, then by sharing, talking about it, talking about it, and being able to share what happened, it gives them the opportunity to analyze the results of what they're doing. It gives them the opportunity to have a, a deeper perspective or a wider perspective of the thing that they're learning. Because by sharing, you have to talk about it.

And by talking about it, you have to explain it and by explaining it, you have to understand it more and to give examples so that this way you give reference to the people that are explaining it to, to give the examples. You got to have association to the thing. You gotta go, this example is, is associated to what's happening here. Or what's happening here can be, um, explained in this example. What's happening here can also be associated to this analogy. What's happening here can also be connected to this event in another person's life.

Which means we have to have a fuller understanding of the thing we're trying to master, of the thing we're trying to learn. So therefore it actually increases our learning speed. If we simply just share.

But the reason why people don't is because they have this mentality that I need to be perfect. I need to be a master. And behind that is a resistant wall of I'm afraid of being judged because I see myself as a person who is aiming for perfection.

A person who, who is, um, serious about the things that they're into, right? All of these mental labels, which ends up being a big resistance for the person because it doesn't allow them to really engage in the learning process. You see, because of social media, because of content creation, nowadays, the learning process is not so much of just learn before it's like, when you learn, who do you share it with? Right? You share it with people around you.

mike (10:24.406)
But what happened to people around you don't care. Nowadays you share it on social and there are always somebody in the world that will be interested in what you are sharing. And then by them watching, now you have an audience, which then gives you more motivation to share again. So everybody actually have this opportunity to learn and grow at a tremendous speed, simply by sharing their journey.

Just as long they can let go of this fear of judgment that's inside of them. Let go of this label that they put in their own mind. I'm a master. I'm a perfectionist. I'm a person who does X, Y, Z. They have to let that go because that itself is the limiting factor.

Stephen (11:21.432)
So I guess, I mean, it makes sense if you just go live and you just go through the process, then in terms of that, it doesn't take that much time. You just press play and I can do what I do, right? But I guess maybe the big hesitation before is going through the process of editing the videos, putting them together, making it nice, et cetera.

So it's viewable, but maybe at this stage.

Stephen (11:56.504)
just starting somewhere.

where at least it doesn't take a whole lot of time can help at least to get the process started.

mike (12:09.822)
Right. And it's always been like that as well. I think everybody has known about lives and they know that live means, you know, there's no editing, it's automatic post. Um, they know it's minimum work, but not enough people are taking action because it's the fear, the fear of not being perfect, the fear of being judged that stops people. And so that's why it's so important.

to let go of constant self judgment and let go of putting labels on ourselves. Because the labels itself is creating the limiting factors. It's creating the limitations within us, the labels that we put. If I say that I am a expert at that thing, whatever that thing is now I'm obligated to go and try to judge.

All of my expressions and conversations to ensure that my expression fits the label that I just gave myself.

Stephen (13:17.249)
and

mike (13:19.246)
You know, and this is happening like internally. So then now I can't express naturally. And now I can't go ahead and explore and try out new things in that area, because I might look like a beginner in some of the things. If I look like a beginner, then it directly goes against my claim of being an expert at that thing. So now I'm not going to be okay with it. I'm going to get upset at myself. And now I'm afraid that people are going to judge me.

Stephen (13:32.74)
Hmm.

mike (13:49.826)
But you see all of these problems came because I decided to go and label myself and my own head. And then afterwards I tell everybody, this is my label, this is my label. And now I'm bounded by it.

Stephen (13:50.062)
Mm.

mike (14:03.838)
It's like somebody, it's like somebody going out there and going, uh, I don't, uh, I never, I never eat unhealthy foods. Oh, I always eat clean. I always eat clean. All right. I always eat healthy foods. And now they tell everybody that, you know, as if they're wearing a badge or something, you know, and now anytime when they're eating anything that might be considered unhealthy, now they're bounded. Now they look like the person who is lying.

Stephen (14:21.092)
Hmm.

mike (14:30.89)
And now someone may call them out on it because they are saying how healthy they are, therefore broadcasting out, bring their, bring people's attention to. Now criticize what they do because they brought it upon themselves. Imagine I go out there, Hey guys, I eat healthy. I eat healthy. I never eat junk food. And they can add a little layer. I despise people. They can eat junk food. All those people are lazy. Those people, right. Make all this commotion about it. Now everybody's going to look at what I eat. And now I decided to go and eat a cookie. Oh.

Stephen (14:45.549)
Hmm

mike (15:00.834)
Suddenly it becomes bad. So now I have to go ahead and constantly stop what it is that I'm doing. I have to go and judge all the foods that I'm eating going. Does it fit this label that I created for myself? You see, and that's a lot of resistance. That's a lot of stopping our own energy versus if I just didn't label it. And I have an intention to want to eat healthy. Great. But I don't, I don't need to broadcast it. I don't need to go and tell everybody that.

I don't need to go and try to even see myself as that. So now I get to just go and focus on what do I want to do? You know, if I'm out, what's one of my focus? You know, I don't get restricted. You see people create their own restrictions and then afterwards they. Continue to support the limiting thing because they don't realize it's their own labels that are limiting them from doing what they want.

Stephen (15:57.997)
Hmm.

mike (16:00.386)
Right. Think about it. Like, you know, when you say like, I'm, you know, I see myself as a person who is a sense of mastery. Well, then that means you can't be seen as a person who is a beginner. Which means how are you going to learn things? You're going to, you're going to have to not publicly display your beginnership, which you're going to have to be a beginner in things constantly. Right. So you see it really limits.

limits us from expressing ourselves because we label it and now we have to fit that label.

mike (16:39.178)
It's like a person who goes, I'm super strong. Oh, I'm the strongest person. Okay. Well, now you're going to have to back that up because you keep labeling yourself as that. So now everything you do, people might be looking at you going, is he really that strong? Let me see what he's doing. Oh, look at him lifting that thing. Oh, he looks like he's struggling a little bit. I think he's BSing. I don't think he's that strong. Right. So now this person has to go ahead and back it up. And then now focuses so much on being stronger and being stronger means stronger just for the sake of.

matching the label that they're claiming. And even if they decided, I'm so tired of this. So then now they have to go ahead and publicize, hi, man, I'm not that strong. What? But you just said you were strong just two years ago. Suddenly you're not that strong. You don't care anymore. What happened? Now they're going to get the feedback, the whiplash, but you see, they created the problem along among themselves. And then now they're going to experience all of that.

Stephen (17:10.307)
Mm.

mike (17:36.286)
If we just let go of the labels altogether, then it doesn't matter. Now we get to express openly. Now if a person goes, I wanna make content, and then they make content. And the person goes, I wanna express in this way, I wanna go ahead and act this way, eat this way, I wanna lift this, I don't wanna lift that, I'm gonna do what I want. They get to do what they want. Because there's no labels in their mind like perfectionism or like mastery.

Stephen (17:57.542)
Hmm.

mike (18:03.926)
You know, there's no labels that will stop a person from doing what they want. Now they become free and life becomes much better.

Stephen (18:17.348)
I mean, honestly, maybe that's also the reason why, at least right now in general, I like to do it just on my own and do my own practice because I feel more free there. But then if I was to go on video, there's an aspect of me that could feel conscious.

Stephen (18:42.164)
in that I need to essentially almost perform on there. And then when that is the case, then it almost stains the thing that I enjoy until I learn how to release the resistance.

mike (18:58.751)
Right.

mike (19:07.266)
So therefore now the thing that you enjoy doing, you start to despise it. It starts to feel heavy burden. Right. And then people start to question, do I really even enjoy that?

Stephen (19:14.58)
Hmm

Stephen (19:20.585)
Hmm

mike (19:22.374)
And then sometimes people will stop because they go, I don't enjoy it because you know, so much work, then they stop and they try to try out new things. Only to find that they really did enjoy the thing that they stopped, but it was just how they were approaching it. That was the issue. They didn't enjoy the old approach, the old perspective in what they were doing, but they actually still enjoy the thing.

Stephen (19:48.075)
Mm.

mike (19:48.438)
But they lost months and years coming back to that realization because they were thinking I didn't like this thing. So now imagine they can save a few months or save a few years or longer. I think about the amount of growth, the amount of mastery that they would have gained more of because they never stopped. You know, people do this often. This is a very popular thing now where people unplug, they go travel, they want to unplug from life thinking that what they were doing were somehow wrong.

Stephen (20:08.219)
Hmm.

mike (20:18.742)
When in fact, what they were doing, they were interested in, it was just how they were doing it, the reasons why they were doing it for those were the main factors that was causing the issue. Once they let that go, they will find that a lot of times what they were doing before the type of market, the type of industry, the tasks is what they enjoy, is what they're good at, but if they don't realize that they can unplug from things and they come back and they create.

The same scenario again, with all of their labels, all of their restrictions and all this stuff and run into the same issue just months and years down the road and then have to repeat it over again. Many people go through these cycles before they actually figure out what we're talking about today.

Stephen (21:10.5)
Quite the journey, even for myself, just continuously. You think you shed so much, and yet there is still more to shed, and that is the beauty of life as well. So, thank you guys once again for listening to an episode of Body Over Minds. I just wanna let you guys know again, if you guys wanna dive in deeper, and Mike is...

training and teaching this so often and he has a core group of people where he's able to dive in deeper. So if you want to become more healthy and strong in your body and mind, definitely go check out flow60.

Stephen (22:01.124)
Okay.