[00:12] Speaker A: Hi, everyone, and welcome to The Keep'Em Healthy Podcast. This is your host, Jami. Today's episode deals with parenting children and their big emotions. And I was so grateful to cross paths with Nicole Hall who has spent the last twelve years working in the mental health trauma informed education field for Lakeside. And Lakeside supports thousands of youth through their trauma informed, brain friendly, therapeutic school environments. So they train professionals across the country and world, and specifically Nicole Hall, who's on this episode today. Her passion is finding ways to help adults better understand and relate to their kids in their lives. Nicole is also a mom to two wonderful kids and so she gets it. And so I get it. I'm a mom of five. And listen, there are times when that cool, calm, and collective mom gets frustrated, and that cool, calm, and collective mom curls up into a ball. And the mom that is frustrated, angry, not having the time or space to deal with whatever crazy anger or anxiety that my child has experienced comes out that we raise an octave in her voice to try to yell it out of them, or we try to give them whatever they want to stop the explosion happening within their bodies. So this speaks really true to me in my day to day. And Nicole does an amazing job giving not only the science behind it, but gives you this visual and this understanding of what's actually going on in your child's body when they are experiencing these big emotions and how to diffuse the situation. And also how to teach yourself how to understand your emotions and providing coping skills that you can use with your child and also that your child can use in their moments, maybe when you're not in those situations with them. So this episode has extremely valuable information and resources and I am really excited for you to listen. So let us meet Nicole Hall. I'm going to welcome Nicole today. Nicole, hi. Welcome to the podcast world.
[02:29] Speaker B: Hi everyone.
[02:31] Speaker A: I'm ready for you, Nicole. I'm ready for you to give some insight on parenting, especially in those moments where children of mine or other people's children are lost in their big emotions and how to connect with them during that time. I am really excited to share this knowledge. But before we get started, let's just hear your story about how you came to be a mental health care professional for youth and in schools.
[02:57] Speaker B: Sure. So I've spent the last twelve years working in this mental health traumainformed education field. I currently work for Lakeside and I have for the past twelve years in Lakeside. They basically support thousands of youth each year in this trauma informed, brain friendly, therapeutic school environment. And then we also train professionals across the country and in the world in these brain friendly, trauma informed approaches. So what's really cool is that I'm kind of inundated with a lot of information on a daily basis about how to have better relationships and how to help kids who may be struggling in these bigger moments. And so my passion really is helping adults understand and relate to their kids. And that ties in so well with parenting because that's basically our number one job, right? Absolutely. And I think that passion and what drew me to this type of work was because, especially in middle school, I was that kid, I was getting in trouble. I was having lots of big emotional reactions and mental health struggles that were causing me to act out in these ways that really made it difficult for people to want to be around me, behaviors that are just kind of not fun to be sitting next to or interacting with. And there's this quote that kind of has carried me through my life and has really helped me gain perspective. And it runs along the line of like, the child who needs to feel the love will burn down the entire village just to feel its warmth. And for me, that really sits and resonates with me as I sit here and I work and I see the needs of so many families and so many kids on a daily basis. And so for me, I was thankfully fortunate enough to have parents who were really willing to listen and help me work through those difficult moments in those middle school years. And I give a lot of credit to that village of support that surrounded me, my parents, my teachers, other healthy adults in my life. That really helped me kind of get through it and saw me and listened to me. So that really left me with this feeling of I want to be that adult. I want to be part of that village, not only for my own kids, but for other kids. And so here I am, living this professional life and personal life of really just enjoying connecting with adults and parents and caregivers and helping us all kind of figure it out when we're in the midst of these big emotions and raising kids, it's not an easy task.
[05:58] Speaker A: I hear that. And I want to go back to that quote about them burning down the village to feel it's warm. That's an amazing just perspective change when it comes to those big emotions or the acting out that you're talking about in that it stems from something deeper. And I love that quote. So thank you for sharing that, number one. And number two, I think a lot of our life experiences, the most valuable people in our lives are the ones who we strive to become, right? And so I love that now that is your time to be that person for that version of yourself when you were younger and to make that a passion to help them and be the village for them. So thank you for your work and your energy. That's really wonderful. So I want to get started with. The idea for this episode is to help connect with kids when you may not like them. So I'm going to give you the floor of your Lakeside program and what you want to share with us today.
[06:58] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Lakeside, we've been doing this work for 40 years. So we've had these therapeutic schools throughout Bucks County, Montgomery County, and they provide these environments essentially that are brain friendly traumainformed and are doing a lot of relational work with at risk youth. So these could be kids that are not necessarily thriving in like a general education, public type school. And so what happens is the schools reach out to Lakeside and say, hey, this particular student isn't working in this environment. Do you have a spot for them? So that's kind of how it works to get a kid in one of our in school programs. And I don't want to dive too much into exactly what we do because it dives into the whole concept of trauma and criminal justice system and all of that. But what I do want to make nod to is that we're seeing the need, we're seeing a need of children as young as elementary school because we have some programs that go that young, just really needing help in figuring out how to navigate some really big emotions. And we're seeing the need of staff and teachers and criminal justice systems and parents and everybody. We're all just kind of sitting here like, holy cow, what do we do? How do we manage all of this? So increases in referrals, increases in reports of children feeling anxious, increased suicide rates. We all know the data is there. I don't think this is new to you or I, Jamie, or to probably many of the people listening to this podcast. What's really been cool to see over my twelve years of really being in this work is that there is such a new openness and awareness that just even the general public has to these mental health cases and to the need and importance of being able to really be there for children starting at a really young age. And I think that we have to make nod to the fact that we are living in a post pandemic world. And the pandemic had a lot of really big implications that I think we're still trying to all figure out. Teachers, kids, caregivers. I think we're all sitting here still very confused, angry, scared, grieving, lost experiences, lost relationships. And so we're all kind of walking around under this like, I don't know, this collective cloak of not really knowing how to interact with each other or how to take care of each other anymore. So I think we're just really feeling it. And that's a heavy thing to be walking around with as a parent, as a caregiver, and then as a child. It's just heavy. It's really heavy.
[10:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. And it's confusing for the child, first of all. And second of all, you're right. Personally, in my life I've seen or parents have come to me to talk about anxiety of their children, of their small children. We see the numbers in the school who need emotional support dealing with anxiety post pandemic. And so I would love to kind of clear up a few terms for parents who are listening, who may be needing advice on how to parent a child who is struggling with anxiety. So can we first start with making a clear distinction between what is a worry and what is anxiety? Absolutely.
[10:58] Speaker B: And I want to also throw in there as we make this distinction, adding that term anger and that emotion, anger, because I think they all fall along this continuum. So, like you said, two outward behaviors and then emotions that have really increased for children post pandemic are experiences of anger and then anxiety. We're seeing and hearing about increases in flights at school, at all grade levels, angry outbursts at home when things aren't going the way a child is expecting them to go. These are all things that we're consistently hearing about, that parents are reaching out about with how to help. And I think the term anger specifically, a lot of us have a very visceral reaction because at least my generation, we were kind of taught like, anger is really not good. It's not something that you really should be feeling. You push it down, especially as a female, you don't feel that anger when the reality is that anger is really healthy. Anger has a purpose. Its purpose is to keep us safe. It is literally wired in our body to respond that way. So if we're sitting in an environment where we determine that there could be a possible threat, our body is going to prime us to react to that threat. So if we tie that to the experiences of the pandemic, heck, threat was determined to be everywhere, all around us, sometimes even in our own homes. So our systems have been primed to be on high alert, to be ready to fight at all time. Right? And this is coming from the parents feel this way, but the kids also have been feeling this way. They also are having these experiences and these literal reactions and responses in their bodies. And while the immediate threat of the pandemic has significantly diminished compared to two or three years ago, our bodies are still functioning as if the threat is right in front of us. So it's really fascinating, you know, to be watching these instances of increased anger in our students, in our students in all ages, even in ourselves as parents. And the interesting thing is that many professionals and experts view anger kind of as what they're calling a secondary emotion. So that means that anger shows up to protect us and it shows up as a way to mask what we're really feeling at a deeper level. And that's just because our bodies will always automatically respond in a protecting mode. Because from a biological standpoint, we're designed for survival, right?
[14:05] Speaker A: Right.
[14:07] Speaker B: So easily activated and easily accessible for all of us. And that's okay. I think we need to allow that to be there, but we need to acknowledge it. And then we need to understand, hey, there's something else going on underneath this. What we're coming to find is that a lot of our kids who may be presenting as angry are walking around with what are really big worries. It's this anxiety that's underlying of that anger. And I say anxiety lightly because anxiety is a pretty big buzzword right now. I think if you log on to social media, it's everywhere and everyone's talking about it. And while that's a really beautiful thing and I think awareness is really important, I think the concept of anxiety is also a really misunderstood concept. And so I think it's important that then we do make that distinction, like you said, between what could be anger, what could be a worry, and what could actually be anxiety. So one really important thing that I've taught my kids and that I continuously have learned myself, is that while there are very clear distinctions between worrying and anxiety, every single person on this planet has experienced both of those things. Both of them.
[15:41] Speaker A: I think that right there making anxiety human. And not just like you have it or you don't, or whatever, making it to the point to be like every human being will have the experience of anxiety just like they have the same experience of happiness and sadness that I think allows it to be more appreciated as something that does this. A lot of people are like, just knock it off. It doesn't exist. It's just your thoughts move on and they don't understand. And so I think to be able to verbalize to a child and explain to them exactly that this is like, okay, this is a part of everybody and just like you have sadness and all, we manage that. We're going to manage this too.
[16:21] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[16:22] Speaker A: Thank you for that.
[16:23] Speaker B: And understanding that there are some common things that go between a worry and anxiety. Being nervous and concerned about a possible threat, an uncertain outcome. But having that distinction that when we are worried about something, a worry is the thought that something could not go well. It's temporary. We're able to tap into the part of our brain that can problem solve, see a solution. That is a really clear distinction when we're talking to our kids about, okay, are you worried about a specific thing? Because if we're worried, I know that you and I can sit here and we can clearly find a solution versus an anxiety, which is when that worry thought can be felt inside your body, right. It no longer is just residing in that thinking part of your brain. It's now moving down, and you can feel it as, like, the butterflies in your stomach or your heart is racing, feeling like you need to throw up, feeling like you can't eat your dinner. Feeling and experiences of anxiety, it causes our bodies to react, and we don't have control over that. We don't have control. Just like you don't have control over how your body is going to react in anger. Moment anxiety is telling you that there's a threat. Anger is telling you that there's a threat, and your body is automatically going, how do I stay safe within that? So this distinction between being able to help our kids recognize the feelings in their body and place the words to this is a worry, this is an anxiety, this is anger, can really help us as parents figure out how to help navigate it with them. And that's been really helpful as I help my own kids walk through those moments of that and realizing that these anxious moments, we don't have to be scared of them. Like, anxious energy, feeling. That what happens in your body when your system is primed to do that. Flight, flee, submit all of those responses. Your body is supposed to do that. You want your body to do that. It's when those sensations and reactions are sticking around for long periods of time, when the perceived threat is no longer aware, like, no longer right in front of you, that's when anxiety can become something that's really heavy and maybe needs a little bit more help to manage it. Right?
[19:14] Speaker A: And so, for instance, though, like having your child kind of pinpoint, okay, either I'm angry or I have anxiety, or I'm worried how as a parent. So if they say to us, I have anxiety, mom, it's kind of like, well, now what? So what's our job now?
[19:32] Speaker B: Sure.
[19:33] Speaker A: If that's what's playing out in your house right now, sure.
[19:37] Speaker B: What plays out in my house when that happens is we go into our body and I'll tell you that for my youngest, she definitely is more prone to worries. If she's having an angry outburst, usually we can explore it, and we dive into the fact that there's a worry that she won't be able to reach a certain solution in a certain time. And that seems manageable, right? Because if she's telling me she's angry, we sit in our body and we say, okay, where are we feeling that? Where in your body are you feeling the anger? And usually she's clenched up tight in her hand. She feels it tighten her feet in her stomach. And we'll do a lot of releasing body movements with that stuff. That can help us regulate her system to then get her to a point where we can then problem solve what it is. So if it's cleaning her room, because that seems to be the latest worry, it's worried about, my room is so messy, and because my room is so messy, I'm worried I'm not going to be capable of cleaning it. And if I'm not capable of cleaning it, then I can't go ride my bike, right? So then we break it down into these really simplistic steps of you feel like you're not capable. What have we done today that you were able to accomplish? Let's list all the things that you've accomplished. And we'll physically go out and we'll list the things, and then we'll say, okay, let's make a list of what we can accomplish in our room. So it's breaking down those tactile steps to really help her work through those moments of what I call her worries.
[21:35] Speaker A: Breaking up that big chore into small, simple chores that she can compartmentalize and say, all right, just have to focus on this one thing and then the next thing, and then all of a sudden, that big chore becomes so much more manageable. And I give you a lot of credit for you have to learn your kids and every kid is going to be different. And so it may be difficult to understand your child right away and what will make things easier for them. But I love this tool of like, okay, they're panic because they don't want to take care of the big room, but you broken it down into small steps for them.
[22:10] Speaker B: I love that. Yeah. And then when we go into the anxiety piece for my oldest, because that shows up as true anxiety for my oldest, we really dive into where do we feel it part in our body, because we have to be able to get his system calm enough that we can think through and reason through what is actually happening.
[22:44] Speaker A: That's a trigger scenario for me because I have children that I cannot even look at them until they're ready, until they calm down even a little bit. Because when they're in that moment, there's like this big red ball around them of like, you can't even approach me, penetrate anything with me because I'm so fire red. So I'm really interested in what you.
[23:06] Speaker B: Have to say here because I can well, it's interesting. There's a part of me that he will get big fire red as well, and I sit with it. It's wildly uncomfortable, and he doesn't necessarily love that. That's something that I do. But I always come back to that quote from the beginning, and I just envision him as I think of his nervous system. Honestly, he no longer becomes like my kid to me. I sit there and I'm looking at him, and I'm like, okay, you are feeling so out of control right now that if I walk away from the situation or if I give you the space that you say you're wanting but I'm not so sure that that's actually what you want because of this big blow up that's happening. How can I share my call with you if I'm not with you so I really kind of do a little bit of introspective stuff with myself in those moments. And I just sit quietly. I make sure that I'm in whatever space that he's in. I'm not touching, I'm not necessarily speaking to him other than to sit there. And I will say to him, I will just keep reiterating like, you are safe and I am here. And it's like I'm speaking to his nervous system, essentially, because I think in my head, I'm like, eventually your brain will calm down enough that you'll be able to hear me and will slowly be able to work our nervous system down. And there's this awesome concept that is called mirror neurons. And it's so fascinating to me because we as human beings are designed our brains are designed to be mirroring the emotions, the facial expressions of the people in front of us that are physically in front of us. Which can be a really scary thought, but it also can be really empowering as a parent to realize that you can sit here and as long as you are maintaining a sense of internal calmness and displaying that for your kids, eventually they are going to mirror that. Their brains are wired to mirror that. Realistically. It's biology. It's science. So that's how I approach that situation with him when he becomes that big ball of fire that's trying to burn the whole village down because he doesn't feel safe. But I'm like, you know what? You're burning right now because you're scared, and you need to know that you're not alone here. And you can push me away because that's what feels safe to you. But I'm going to be right here. And I'm going to sit here through it, and we're going to work through.
[26:09] Speaker A: It, which I give you a lot of credit because I feel like when we see our child kind of doing the freak out and whatever angry. And you kind of get frustrated really easily as a parent because you're like, no, not now. I don't need to deal with this right now. This is going to become a thing and now and what is he going to do? And is he going to throw a fit or go after a sibling or whatever the case may be? But to give a parent kind of that visual to be like, if I stay calm, eventually he will as well. But to understand that relationship and the biology and the science behind it, nobody tells you that when you're becoming a parent, right?
[26:49] Speaker B: No.
[26:49] Speaker A: Right. So this is where I'm like, okay, this is why I love my podcast, because this is for someone like me, especially, and my village of people that I know experience very similar things with their children. This is where we want to learn. We want to know. We want to be empowered to help our children in these moments and to teach them how to regulate their emotions. Right? So if you can kind of go into what we talked about on our discovery call about how you guys teach parents to help their children when the children are triggered into their anxiety or anger, Absolutely.
[27:29] Speaker B: So there is a neuroscientist called Dr. Bruce Perry, and some of the listeners may have heard of him. He just recently did I think he wrote a book with Oprah is like his latest thing namedropper I know. Yeah. So he'd be easy to Google basically, if people want to do a little bit more research on him. But he has this really a complex skill that he teaches about a way to interact with someone who is having these large emotional reactions. And he calls this skill regulate, relate and reason. And what's really cool is that, like so many of these traumainformed brain friendly skills, you don't have to be a neuroscientist, you don't have to be an educator or a therapist to really start utilizing these skills within your home. And I think that's like my passion. I'm like that is so cool that we have all of these things at our fingertips that really we can use as parents. It's so empowering to me and just like, I get so energized by that. So the whole concept behind this regulator related reason is that when your child comes up to you as that flame that we talked about, right. Our immediate responses as parents typically is either to flame right up to have the reaction, or we want to find a solution, right? We want to make our kids feel better. We want to help them fix the problem. It's really difficult to see our kids struggling and having a hard time. And a lot of us, parents, myself included, we want to be fixers. That's important to us. We want to help people feel good. So we have a tendency to jump to that last step. Right? We jump to that reasoning phase because especially as adults usually kid problems, kid issues, whatever, we can see very simple solutions, really straightforward answers to it. So we jump in and we're like, hey, this is what you got to do. Just, you know what, Sage? Just clean your room. If you clean your room, you can go ride your bike. Just do it. Just clean your room. Right? But what we know, the brain science tells us is that if that person that flame, they're experiencing either anxiety or anger or all of that, and so their brain is in that survival mode, so they can't possibly think clearly enough, right, to see, to hear, to understand the solutions that we have for them. Okay, so what Regulate, Relate, Reason tells us to do is that first, when our child comes to us as that flame, the first thing we need to do is to help our child regulate and to put it in like the simplest terms possible because we don't have hours. Regulate in this case, means to really let's just gain back some control of your body and your brain, and let's figure out a way to help both of those things calm down enough so that we can think and behave clearer. So how do we regulate? I mean, Jamie, you talk about this on many episodes of your podcast, and I think that's why this is such an awesome tool to be bringing into your space, because a lot of what you talk about is regulating to the body, right? It's those big body movements. It's the breathwork. Something as simple as drinking handing your child a cup of ice cold like water to take a drink. Because that trick of that actual physical task of drinking that ice cold water tricks the brain and the body to focus on swallowing and can actually flip a switch in your child's brain to throw them out of that anxious or anger or those large emotions that they're feeling and to give a little bit of space, right? So helping your child regulate first, right, when there's this big emotion, like, emotional upheaval that's happening, it has changed my family's, my family's whole dynamic in these big moments. So, for example, many times, if either one of my children are having these big explosions of an emotion, they know at this point, I say, okay, I was like, this is what we're going to do first. Let's take a walk. Let's get outside. Let's lap the house. Four laps. Let's just do it together. Or, hey, let's do some yoga poses. Let's take some deep breaths, and we're going to do it together. Because my system also needs to be regulated because I'm now sitting here with the possibility of becoming a flame, because you're reacting, right? Those mirror neurons. So, hey, let's get our bodies regulated. Let's get us into a space. And I talk my kids through that. My kids know why we're doing it. There have been times where if one of my kids has been struggling with something on a consistent basis, we'll create basically like a safety plan or a self care plan, and we'll list out. Not in that moment, but maybe when the moment is gone a couple of days later, we'll list out like, hey, when you're feeling XYZ, what feels good to do to help you regulate? So that then we can pull it out in those heated moments and say, okay, the last time we felt like this, we took the dogs on a walk, and you felt better afterwards. Let's do that. Or, oh, you want to go run sprints? Let's go run sprints. So it's really prepping and being prepared for those moments. Now, it's really hard to regulate in those big body moments when you're at Target, let's say, and your eight year old is having an experience in the middle of the aisle and Sally Joe is looking at you, and it can be really hard. So it definitely takes practice. Of figuring out what's going to work. Some really great tips in those moments. Hugging is powerful if you have a kid that likes to hug and likes to be hugged, just the pressure around their body can help calm the nervous system down in those moments. So really finding a way when those flames get really big in those first moments to help the child regulate, right? That's step one of that. So what are some signs that your child's brain is now in a better space and it's regulated? Well, a lot of times what kids will do is they'll be this big inhale and exhale of the body and you'll physically be able to see kind of all of that energy of that emotion leave their body. So that's one sign of like, okay, we're regulated. And now let's move to the next step, which is relating. And relating simply just means take a minute, two minutes. It doesn't have to be long just to reconnect with your child, right? And doing that can be as simply as validating the experience they just had, validating the emotion that they were just feeling, saying like, wow, you were really concerned that you couldn't get your room cleaned in time to ride your bike. Or wow, your body felt really out of control when I told you you had to finish your homework before you could play your video games. Now that we're feeling better, can we find a solution together? Can we figure this out? And just taking just so simple, it can be like one or two sentences. It doesn't have to be like a psychoanalysis of your kid. It can be just that simple of validating that experience that relating shows the child like, hey, I'm here. Your emotions are valid and you don't have a problem solved this by yourself. I got you. Let's figure this out. And then finally we're able to move to that reasoning phase, which as parents are so naturally good at. And that's where we really get to problem solve. That's where we get to say, hey, so XYZ happened. You were confused about, you were concerned about cleaning your room. Let's make a list, let's figure this out together. Let's see, can you tally this off? Or okay, you're mad because you want to play video games. Can we text your friends and see if they can wait maybe 20 minutes while you finish your homework? And that reasoning phase is also where you have the space to explain maybe some of the possible consequences that could be needed, because I don't want this to sound like the child's then kind of free from all the natural consequences of maybe punching a hole in your wall out of anger. Natural consequences do come into play, but we can't possibly be giving consequences to children who aren't even able to think clearly because they're not going to understand them. And then the consequences are going to be ineffective and we're just going to be in this spiraling cycle of frustration all around. Right.
[37:39] Speaker A: But I can tell you right now, there's a million times where I'm like, stop that right now, or you're not going to get ice cream after dinner. You throw the consequence at them almost to try to scare them out of their emotion. But after listening to everything you just said, I'm realizing that is a totally wrong approach. Right. And I understand now your reasoning about, wait, let's help them to regulate, and then we can talk to them about it. And then you can say, all right, once everything's cleared out and you made this new plan of like, this is how we're going to solve this problem. It's like, well, now we need to deal with, like, let's just take a look at what just happened, and then discipline kind of has to come hand in hand with that. And being disciplinarian is just one of those hats that parents have to wear. But I think that we can do the discipline and also in a positive way. If you know that your child is going to have these reactions and you're really working on them, what you're saying, once you get them to a reasonable state, you can reason with them so that in the future, if they feel these emotions, they know what's coming. If they don't take the time to do their breath work, or if they don't take the time to take a lap, or if they don't use the tools that you guys are creating together. And I think that is a relationship that you want with your kid.
[38:53] Speaker B: Right.
[38:53] Speaker A: You want to be able to say, hey, did you try your stuff yet? And is it working? Or you don't want to just go into that stop right now and yelling and telling them, no more video games, no more homework. You don't want to do that in that moment. Nicole, how can we go forth now and involve actually the children in navigating their own lives and then also just create a relationship with them that doesn't revolve around us pointing and yelling, discipline and punishments at them when they go through these big emotions?
[39:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm such a fan of teaching your kids about all of this kind of stuff because I think when there's common knowledge within a household between caregivers and children and you're all speaking the same language, things tend to go a little bit smoother and you all have the same understanding. So I really think that kids are smarter than we give them credit for. They can understand more than we give them credit for. So my number one tip, if we can call it that, would be to get your children involved with understanding what their brain is doing in the moment, why their body feels that way. Let them take a little bit of agency over how to help themselves. Kids love that. Kids love being able to own their own power. And I think it's such a beautiful way that we can foster that in our children while also helping them to learn some really cool coping skills that they'll be able to use even as adults. And I think it's also really important that we all remember that you can be an expert in regulate related reason, the brain, science, all of that, and you're still going to lose your cool. You are still going to tell them, hey, you know what? No ice cream tonight. And that's okay. That is totally okay. That is acceptable. That is human. That is human of you to do that. And the best thing that we can do is do the best we can and admit when we make those mistakes with our kids, right in those moments where we maybe don't allow the space to regulate first before we jump to reasoning, coming back and saying, hey, you know what? We did talk about regulate, relate reason. We did talk about a way that we can work as a family. And Mommy, I forgot in that moment and I'm really sorry and I'm going to do better next time. So I think this honesty, honesty with your kids in that sense is really important. And when it comes to discipline and consequences, what I have found is that when I am using this idea, this brain friendly tactic with my kids that's really relationally based and all of that, they don't fight me so much on consequences because they understand it, right? They get it. There's a new level of awareness that seems to come for kids. And I'm not even just talking about like older middle school age kids. My first grader gets it. She understands and it's because we're taking the time to walk her through it in those moments.
[42:29] Speaker A: Well, you're having those conversations and I think you're right. Our kids can absorb and understand a lot more than what we think. And also, I think when you make this a priority and you do open it up and say to them, this is what's going on in your body at this time, this is how you're reacting. And when you feel that way and then this is what we're going to do to calm you down. And then when we do calm down, we can break it down a little more. And I think that the more you're, you practice that, the easier it becomes, like you said. And then also for yourself as adults, we need to model that behavior and also when we make those mistakes to apologize, I think that's something really empowering to see your parent come down and say, I just recently snapped at my daughter two weeks ago. And I was like, I was finishing up cutting veggies in the kitchen and I'm like, I got to go apologize. I was wrong. And I went down and I was like, I'm really sorry. I should never done that. In the moment. I don't know why I got my ugly face on. And I just, like, barked at her and I'm like, Mommy's really sorry, and she's sitting there, okay, mom, okay, good talk. Good talk. I'm feeling, like, so dark and ugly right now. But you are just like, okay, whatever. But I think there's something to be said about modeling that as well and modeling that when you make mistakes. Okay, but we apologize and we move on. Absolutely. Nicole, these tips and just this education behind and understanding behind why we use these tips to help regulate big emotions, I think it's going to be really empowering for parents. I think it just gives us a clearer picture in our head of that next moment. Like, we have a new set of tools to kind of use and work with. So I really appreciate you, Nicole, and thank you for coming on today.
[44:13] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, thank you. This was energizing and exciting.
[44:23] Speaker A: I'm just going to let all that information sink in, and I might need to listen to this episode a few times just to absorb all the information that Nicole just gave us and to make a plan for the inevitable outburst of my next whichever one through five Child. And I just want to thank Nicole. I really appreciate everything you did to help collaborate with me in creating this episode. Nicole has provided a link to Lakeside, where she works, and also in my show notes, you will find a couple of Instagram accounts that Nicole vets as being high quality parenting accounts. So I hope you can check that out. Also, thank you so much for listening today. Feel free to follow my show on any of the podcast apps that you listen to this episode and also check out my Instagram account at keep them healthy with Jamie. And as I always say you do, you stay well and keep them healthy.
