An Overture to 1812

Karen Fauls-Traynor joins Kathleen to discuss "bad trees", the Wizard of Oz and the War of 1812 in order to track down her ancestor in New York.  But the DIY genealogy advice is just beginning!  This episode features lot's of resources and lots of history served up and brick walls start to crumble!

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Transcript

00:00

John Brandt

Ladies and gentlemen, from the depths of flyover country in the heartland of America, a Kansas City on the other side of the mighty MO. Welcome to Hittin’ the Bricks with Kathleen. A genealogy show that features your questions and her answers. I am John, your humble hubby host. And on this episode, we'll be talking to Karen Falls-Traynor from Madison County, New York, not Wisconsin, New York. So let's hit the bricks.

Kathleen Brandt

Now, John, Karen Fauls-Traynor, who is our guest today, is executive director of the Sullivan Free Library. Did I get that correct, Karen?

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Yes, you did.

John Brandt

Karen, where are you located?

Karen Fauls-Traynor

I live in Oneida, New York, but I work in Chittenango, New York, which is the birthplace of Frank Baum, the author of Wizard of Oz. So our claim to fame is we have a yellow brick road that starts in front of the library where I work and goes all through the village, and we have an annual Oz parade.

I know, Kathleen, you mentioned that you're from Missouri.

Kathleen Brandt

I'm actually from Kansas. Central Kansas, tornado country.

John Brandt

She’s from “Toto-Land”

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Yeah, well, the first time I went to Kansas for a conference, I couldn't understand why there was so much Oz paraphernalia, because we consider that we own Oz. And then I realized the Kansas connection and we don't own all of Oz.

Kathleen Brandt

No, definitely not. Kansas is the Wizard of Oz.

John Brandt

Kathleen, you and Karen spoke a little while before. What did you two come up with?

Kathleen Brandt

Well, I will let Karen kind of tell us what her problem is or her objective, and then we will take it from there.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

We have hit a brick wall in our family research for my, the roots my paternal grandfather. My grandfather, His father and his grandfather are well documented. But we hit a brick wall at the great grandfather, a man named Orlando Palmiter. We know he was born in New York State in Herkimer County, around 1807. And he had three sons. He married and a woman named Margaret who interestingly, has two gravestones in two different counties. And that's about all we know about him for sure. And the other interesting thing is we've done a lot of DNA testing in our family, but we have no DNA matches that trace back to this side of the family. So, we wondered if there was a name change at some point or an adoption that we don't know about. But otherwise, it appears that Orlando was just dropped out of the sky by aliens in around 1850.

John Brandt

Kathleen okay, so it looks like you have your work cut out for you.

Kathleen Brandt

Exactly. It sounds like Orlando Palmiter is an alien, but I don't think so. Karen.

John Brandt

Problem solved.

Kathleen Brandt

It, right. I want to ask you is a couple questions and let's go from there. One is, how do you spell Palmiter?

Karen Fauls-Traynor

We spell it, PALMITER, but there are a lot of variations, of course, on census records and other family lines. Parmiter with an R or the most common is Palmeter which shows up a lot in our family census records, but sometimes Palmester, Palmitier. But as far as we're concerned, the correct way is Palmiter. 

Kathleen Brandt

Well, I hope you're not attached to that correct.

Kathleen Brandt

Because any word like this from the time frame you're working in and what we know about Orlando always says you mentioned he was born in 1807. We know that “L’s” and “R’s” are what we call liquids. And I am a romance linguist, studier. That's what my master's is in. And so I could talk about the liquid of “L” and “R” forever. But basically, they change spaces and change spots does not mean that happen this late in your family. But as you're going back to the 1700s to keep a watch on that, okay, also do not be attached to the spelling. It probably is not going to be the French spelling because at that point the French and the English were pretty much separate. Where Palmetier is the way we say it in French. It would be a little different, but I'm going to stick with the spelling that you used the Palmiter with an “I”. Again, when I'm searching, I'm putting that question mark there, though I never, like I said, I am committed to it. So, have you seen any parents for Orlando at all?

05:00

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Yes. My sister and I have two different theories. One, my sister's theory. We have some very distant DNA matches to a family called Crumb, who came from Stonington, Connecticut, to Brookfield, New York, which is in the county where we are now. And there was a Pardon Palmiter who was one of the early settlers, and he married a Fanny Crumb, whose brother was Joseph. And that's where our very distant matches come to. But as I mentioned to you before, Pardon Palmiter is very well documented because he was a founding father of Brookfield, and there is no mention of Orlando ever in his papers, in his genealogies in anything. My theory, in searching through old census’s there's an --and this is what I was looking at before I almost missed our zoom session, in the 1850 census, Orlando and his wife and children are living in Augusta County, New York, and with them is a Hannah Cooper, who 73 years old.

Kathleen Brandt

And I must first tell you, I tip my hat to you for finding that. Keep going.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Well, I found it a while ago, but I've never found much with Hannah. And then today I was going back through everything. And Hannah Cooper also shows up in the New York State Census of 1855 in Herkimer County with an Amos So Orlando named one of his sons. Amos So that's a good to me, a good indication that he has a brother named Amos also. And I also found, and this never made sense, back in Herkimer County in 1838, a land transfer of a Hannah and Orlando Palmiter to an Amos Palmiter. But it didn't make sense because the Amos I knew about wasn't even born then. But if he had a brother Amos, it would make sense. Would also mean he had another wife. Anyway, that's my theory.

Kathleen Brandt

Okay. Well, I have to tell you, I love your theory because you're starting off on a great track. One is you did exactly what I wanted to hear you say, because as I was snooping around, I saw an old private tree of yours that has a father's name on there. Who is it that you think is Orlando's father.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Steven Palmiter, who was born in Connecticut. And so was Hanna. I just don't know why Hanna is Cooper at the end of her life.

Kathleen Brandt

Perfect. I could do a lot of things with this. So, let's just talk. First of all, Pardon Palmiter is just populated. I mean, it's everywhere. I told John it's like they're propagating bad trees. And that's exactly what has happened here.

John Brandt

When you say that they're propagating bad trees, which sounds very serious and might be punishable and in one state at least. What do you what do you mean? You've got bad trees?

Kathleen Brandt

So people are copying other people's bad trees. People are convinced. Will Karen be related to the Crumbs? Probably. We're talking a certain area where there is a lot of intermarriage. And so that that part is not uncommon. She's going to be related to a lot of other people and cousins of those people. But what is happened is somebody said Pardon is the father, and everybody has jumped on the fact that Pardon’s the father. So there must be about a hundred trees online. This says Orlando's father is Pardon without any cited sources. And that's our problem. So, we need cited sources. However, what Karen has done is is the right way of doing it. You do quick and dirty trees. You keep them private. I was able to see the word Steven on her tree, but without me getting to it, I can't make any assumptions. I'm not only not going to add that to my ancestry tree. Why did you choose Steven again?

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Well, so Hannah Cooper led me to the older Amos Cooper, who died in Michigan, and his death certificate lists his father as Steven Palmiter. Doesn't list. his mother, which would have maybe clinched things to his mother was unknown, at least in the one I looked at. But given that the census said that Hannah was Amos's mother and the death certificate says Steven was his father, they must have been married at some point. I'm assuming Hannah may be remarried later in life.

Kathleen Brandt

And so you’re taking all the fun away from me, Karen here.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Well, I have no verification.

Kathleen Brandt

Well, let's just say that you are doing it correctly, okay? You saw the 1850 census. There has Hannah Cooper, who is your key. And when we talked, you did not mention her. And unlike where the woman's right here in the house. And then I said, Well, where is Hannah in 1855? Whenever we see a strange person at the right age to be a parent or grandparent, and sometimes we're looking for other people, so it might be a child, but in this case, this is a whole another generation in Orlando's household.

10:00

Kathleen Brandt

The next step you took was to look at the 1855, and in 1855, that same Hannah Cooper with all the same statistics is in Amos this home. So the question is, who is Hannah Cooper Except Amos says it is my mother.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Right.

Kathleen Brandt

Now. The question you should have is if Hannah is Amos's mother and she was also living with Orlando, what is the relationship of Amos and Orlando? You continued by talking about Hannah Cooper, who was born in 1776. We find out a lot about her. And if you have done your research, you probably have found it, too, with this huge link with Hannah and the relationship with Amos and Orlando

You want to do what we call cluster research you no longer need to do one person looking for Orlando. What take you to nowhere? What you're looking for is where is Hannah and why does she have a son with the last name Perlmutter. And her last name is Cooper. And you mention that already. So you have gotten exactly where we want you to be on that part as you continue researching. And you already mentioned that that Orlando also had an Amos naming after brothers is a common clue. Pardon gave us none of that. So you have three or four main clues, one Hannah Cooper, two Amos, who appears to be a brother, but we're not sure yet. And the third one is your time frame. So your timeframe is exciting. The first thing I do because I come from the love of military records first, is I want to know what about military records? Whoever the father is of Orlando and Amos should have served or be documented during the War of 1812, one of my most favorite of wars, because most people forget about it. And the way I come up with that is, you know, the age of Orlando, 1807, you know.

AMOS Around 1811, subtract about 23 years from the oldest one, and that puts the father about the same age as Hannah. So, I'm going to tell you at this point that you do want to follow Orlando and you're looking for this parent who might be an 1812. Now, we're really looking or Steven, but we can't get there yet. The fact that Hannah has a different last name tells me that she might have remarried, which means Steven could have died any time, even in the war. True. So, we don't know. So, I would put that on hold. And now think about what happens in the War of 1812. One of the first things that happened is people started claiming land because veterans were given bounty land. So one of the questions would be, where was Orlando? Because we don't see him in that area in the 1830s and 1840.

John Brandt

And when you say they were claiming land where and what?

Kathleen Brandt

So that that's an excellent question, John. And then thank you for bringing me back to the 1901. Yes. So the land that was given for 1812 was as far as Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, all of these places there was bounty land or people were getting this land going west. So I would say first start with the military awarded land grant.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

What is a good source for that?

Kathleen Brandt

My blog.

Kathleen Brandt

So. The a3 genealogy blog has quite a bit in the War of 1812. I've also written an article for Ancestry on their archives dot com talking about tracing your 1812 veteran. Between those you often find quite a few resource lists. And thanks for that nice smooth….

John Brandt

Dovetail that plug in a beautifully, check's in the mail.

Kathleen Brandt

But what you're looking for is an Orlando in 1830, about 20 to 30 years old. A lot of people like to ignore those tick marks, since this records to me is like little pieces of gold sitting there waiting for me to take it and make something out of it. And so as you're going through those, keep it wide, keep it open, keep it in New York for now.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Okay. By tick Mark, do you mean the censuses where they didn't list the names this good, the man and how many females he had and when he males and his family.

Kathleen Brandt

And cows and horses. But they were. Yes.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Yes. Together.

Kathleen Brandt

Exactly. So one of the things about the tick marks and anything before 1850, they don't give us the household. But one of the things that does give us is from generation to generation, every ten years, the sons didn't normally move too far from their fathers.

15:00

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Okay.

Kathleen Brandt

So, the way we find that is through tax records they were taxed or their tithing records. So, birth the son is in my house and he's under age. So, I pay all of the tithing as a man, as his father. But when he comes of age and he's off of my land and living right next door, as soon as that happens, he shows up.

Kathleen Brandt

So don't worry about it. You can't find Orlando in 1850. See if you can find him closer to the war of 1812 records, 1830 records. And I'm saying 1830 because that's a better timeframe for them to claim the land of War of 1812.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

The land of New York would not have been given as bounty land.

Kathleen Brandt

It actually was. But earlier. So I mean, mostly earlier. But in general, I would say, look, in Illinois and Indiana, so.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

They may have moved from Connecticut out west and then back to New York?

Kathleen Brandt

That's a very good question. They may have never moved at all. Okay. They may have just claimed their land because now is a source of money. Then they can sell it. Okay. But they may have also traveled. So it's possible they move for a couple of years. Like you saw Amos out in Michigan was that Michigan?

Karen Fauls-Traynor

It was it was Michigan. And he died there, possibly. He claims somewhere off the father's land.

Kathleen Brandt

Yes. But everywhere you think that a family male went to, you're looking for Orlando. Okay. So I would look for Orlando in Michigan, I would look for Orlando and other places. However, also and in the 1830 census, I'm pretty sure you'll find it because he's 23 years old or so. So he's not going to.

John Brandt

Be like middle age.

Kathleen Brandt

With his parents. Exactly. Exactly. That's pretty old, Bradford. And he wants his own land. So he and he all one is all white. And so he's setting it up so that he can have it. Is that what I have actually done just now is given her a research plan.

John Brandt

I know that all good genealogists have a research plan.

Kathleen Brandt

Very good with that is absolutely true. I'm going to give you a couple other resources. I mentioned the A3 genealogy blog and Archives dot com, which is the Ancestry that I have actually articles on. And you don't have to be a member. I don't believe I think you could just Google Kathleen Brandt War of 1812 Archives dot com.

Kathleen Brandt

In the article I come up I think.

John Brandt

This has been a shameless plug brought to you by Kathleen Brandt.

Kathleen Brandt

Grace. I'll do it a couple more times. But anyway, the question is who is Hannah Cooper? You want to look at the town histories of everyone that you go to because we're talking the 1812 era, these new people going west or finding land or acquiring new land. They were settling in new towns. And these towns were all have small histories who the early settlers were.

And this is because this in the tithing or in the tax records or as in early census or they're being surveyed. So town histories is a big one. You're also going to find in early records like your permits, your family, personal cemeteries, I want you to really Google and play in every place these records are taken. You in New York and all the little small towns on the Canadian line up and down the river.

Because remember, we started New York on closer to the water and then moved inward. All of these little towns, you're looking for the Palmiter cemeteries of those towns.

So the next what I want to make sure you remember, Karen, is the New York State historical newspapers that is online with the New York State Historical Newspaper.org. You're probably familiar with those or you have.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

That’s where I was when I almost missed the session, believe it or not.

Kathleen Brandt

So basically what I'm telling you is that you can solve this problem.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Thank you. That’s good news.

Kathleen Brandt

Yes. And the key is to find out the relationship confirmed that relationship between Amazon in Orlando and we already know Hannah is our connection.

John Brandt

It sounds like Karen has really good instincts on this.

Kathleen Brandt

She does stick with your gut. And I really want to do a follow up with Karen John, because I'm going to do the same work as Karen's doing on this one.

John Brandt

Oh, some of these excited.

Kathleen Brandt

What I want you to make sure what you have is proof of kinship. And so in order to do that, you're going to have to work in that cluster research where you're pulling the family that you know are the Palmiter’s related to Orlando. And you're going to do that through proximity, through land records, through any kind of deeds and wills.

20:00

Kathleen Brandt

And let me tell you, these early ones are not on line for New York. You can't just go to New York Wills and Deeds and push some of these in. So what you have to do is contact the county records.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

The Madison County historian is wonderful. I know him through the library, so I'll be reaching out to him.

Kathleen Brandt

And have fun with it, because this is a fun project, because this war of 1812 my favorite, but it is a fun project.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Well, thank you. It's very helpful to know you think I'm in the right direction. The clincher was why I went back and looked at this since we spoke last week and I have had Hannah Cooper once under living with Orlando. I didn't notice the one with Amos until this past week, and he said it was his mother and that was what pulled it together a little more.

Kathleen Brandt

But should have told you to stop researching so I could drop that.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

But I know. I'm sorry.

Kathleen Brandt

That's okay. Because the truth is, my entire goal is for you all to do your own research. And so the fact that you came on with this makes my heart jump with joy. Let's stop thinking that everyone else has to answer. Let me find the right answer. So, one last tip. If a veteran died early, let's say closer to the war, 1812, 1820, their widow will put a claim in for the pension.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Is Fold 3 a good source for it's probably not for a war of 1812. 

Kathleen Brandt

It's not the best of sources. Those records will fall under the revolutionary. Okay, so Fold 3 does have a lot of information, but I think you'll find the land records just where you would normally find them in the BLMGLO, in this region, in New York, I would just really check the ancestry and those ties. And you might well look at indices for okay, for the different counties.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

Wonderful. You've given me a lot to work with and I'm really excited.

Kathleen Brandt

I expect this to be done by next week.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

This time my goal was Valentine's Day because it's my mother's birthday and I would love to give her an answer for her birthday. But honestly, perfect.

Kathleen Brandt

I think you can actually do that.

John Brandt

That's very cool. Karen, thanks so much. We appreciate you coming by.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

This has been great.

Kathleen Brandt

Karen, I just want to thank you for giving me a big jump. I mean, I love military and especially the War of 1812, so I really want to thank you for that.

John Brandt

Normally, you have a tidbit. You do. We have a tidbit.

Kathleen Brandt

Did have a tidbit have anything?

John Brandt

I would never tho ught I would ask for one. But here I am at the end of the show going. No camels?

Kathleen Brandt

No camels, no nothing. With Karen.

John Brandt

Oh, well, then, in that case, maybe I have one.

Kathleen Brandt

Okay.

John Brandt

Madison, New York and Madison, Wisconsin, are not close to each other.

Karen Fauls-Traynor

No, they are not.

John Brandt

However, they were named after the same person. And I'm going to look up who that was because it seems like a really common name.

Kathleen Brandt

John cut it, out. Who is it?

John Brandt

Hang on. Let me get on Google. 

Kathleen Brandt

Wait a minute, John. You already mentioned that Madison, New York and Madison, Wisconsin, already was named after the same person. And it was famous. Yeah. Who is it?

John Brandt

It's James Madison, The president. But.so here. Okay. Confession time. When? When I got the paperwork on Karen, I read Madison, and I didn't think Madison, New York. I thought Madison, Wisconsin. So, I researched Madison, Wisconsin. So I can tell you everything you need to know about Madison, Wisconsin. Oh, no. I did research on Madison, New York.

John Brandt

But the best tidbit that I could possibly come up with is that they're named after the same person.

Kathleen Brandt

That's a pretty good tid bit.

John Brandt

Yes. So there you go. And I'm sure there's Madison's in every state that are probably named after James.

Kathleen Brandt

Either a town or a county, probably. Actually, I think there's almost like at least a dozen counties that I can name that are named after Madison.

John Brandt

There's some bridges, in at least one of those counties are. Finally, I read a book So.

Kathleen Brandt

You’re funny.

John Brandt

Clint Eastwood did that, didn’t he?.

Kathleen Brandt

I read the book The Bridges, wasn't it? The covered bridges of Madison County or something like that?

John Brandt

I think it was just the Bridges of Madison County.

Kathleen Brandt

Bridges. Okay. Okay. That makes sense.

Kathleen Brandt

It was a good book, by the way.

John Brandt

Okay, So. Okay. Let me ask you this. You mentioned and this is more on topic you mentioned because you two professionals were talking, you and Karen, you said that she should check the BLM GLO.. And for the rest of us, what is the BLMGLO?

25:00

Kathleen Brandt

Well, the B stands for Brandt. No, seriously. No kidding. So it stands for the Bureau of Land Management, General Land Office Records and their online. And anyone can access the stuff and not the original applications. I think I mention that. But what you can do that you can't do through Ancestry, which has copies of the deeds, is you can compare it in clusters. And that's how we use it on a professional level. And what I mean by that is this way I can see like in my family, I realized that a Wylie Morris who just might direct ancestor and his brother were right next to each other along with two other people.

John Brandt

It always comes back to you doesn’t it?

Kathleen Brandt

Everything. Everything. The entire universe evolves based on where I am. Any other questions, mister?

John Brandt

No. I think maybe. Maybe the dog and I need to take cover. Well, congratulations. You've made it to the end of another episode. Thanks so much for staying. Thanks to Karen Fauls-Traynor for spending some time with us. Thanks to Chewie, Chewbacca Brandt our part time gaffer and full time tree-sniffer for his unwavering lack of interest in anything we're doing. The theme song for Hittin’ the Bricks was written and performed by Tony Fistknuckle on the Aphids. Look for them in your local dry cleaners. We'd love to hear what you think about the podcast. So stop by our Facebook page at Hittin’ the Bricks and let us know.

End of Transcript

Running Time 26:34

Posted to Buzzsprout, February 8, 2023