Fostering Food Education through Hands-On Farming with Maryann Tebben of Bard's College at Simon's Rock

Discover the secrets behind fostering a deep appreciation for food production and sustainability with Maryann from Bard College at Simon's Rock. In this enlightening episode, we revisit a heartwarming alumni reunion where attendees harvested and prepared a fresh garden salad. Maryann shares her inspiring journey as a French literature professor and food studies educator, detailing her innovative approach to blending academic learning with practical food-making sessions and farm visits. Learn how her leadership at the Center for Food and Resilience, which includes managing a farm, sugar shack, and apiary, provides students with immersive, hands-on experiences that transform their understanding of food systems.
Concluding with a sneak peek into the upcoming Think Food Conference, we celebrate the powerful connection between local agriculture and community well-being, emphasizing the importance of generational wisdom and the resurgence of homegrown produce. Tune in to explore how food education can cultivate a resilient, healthy community.

Thank you Maryann and Bard College at Simon's Rock!!
https://simons-rock.edu/

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Transcript

Chef James: 0:16

I'm your host, Chef Massey. Okay, so today on the podcast, I'm really excited We've got Maryann here from Bard College at Simon's Rock. How's it going? How are you?

Maryann: 0:26

I'm great. It's very nice to be in summer mode these days. So beautiful weather yes.

Chef James: 0:32

Oh, yeah, yeah, the gardens are going and you know the farms are rolling.

Maryann: 0:36

So yeah, yes, we just got started. We had our first event June 1st. We had alumni reunion on the campus and for the second year in a row, we've hosted an event where we harvest salad from the farm garden. We make a salad on the farm and everybody helps and then we serve it to the people who have come to the reunion. So that was really fun.

Chef James: 1:01

Oh, that's so great. Wow, how many people attend that.

Maryann: 1:05

We had about 50 people, so we're we're a very small school.

Chef James: 1:09

Yeah, but still that's a lot of lettuce. You know a lot of it was pretty good.

Maryann: 1:14

Our arugula is going pretty well. We had some micro greens. I got to give credit to my farmer, dan Wood, who does all of that, but it was really fun because you get people from some of the alums, from all the different years, and they bring their families and we bring them out into the field and we're about just over an acre, so it's not a huge place, and we say here's how you do it, and now you do it, and then they'll harvest the arugula. We were just clipping microgreens with scissors Wow, yeah, we have a sugar shack on campus too, so we had our own maple syrup that we added to the dressing. So that was very local.

Chef James: 1:47

That's so great. Well, and that's I guess going into it there's. You do wear a few hats there. I mean, do you want to? Do you want to go into how, how that is for you? I mean?

Maryann: 1:59

Yes, and it's pretty recent in some ways. So I I am a professor of French, so that's my background French literature.

Chef James: 2:07

And.

Maryann: 2:07

I still teach courses in French language and French literature, and then my research background is in food. So I study and research French food history and some Italian food as well, and so I've started to teach those classes. I have a course on French food, a course on fermented food, which is really fun. I have an intro to food studies course where we talk about food access and justice and heritage. We talk about what local food is here and where local food belongs, what's authentic, which is a really difficult question. And then I have a cheese course where we learn about cheese, talk about the history of it, and in each of those courses there's a discussion section and then there's a making session. So one week we talk and we read and discuss and they write papers, and the other day of the week we make things. So we make cheese in that class Very simple, fresh cheese. And then the other part of it for a couple of those is is visits to all of the beautiful places around here.

Maryann: 3:08

So we went to highland farm to learn about cheese we had them come to us and do a cheese tasting, because we obviously can't do aged cheeses in the sure kind of a semester, so we can do halloumi and, uh, very basic farmer's cheese. They bring their beautiful aged cheeses to us and the students get to learn and ask all kinds of questions. That's one of my philosophies is I'm not an expert on everything, so I bring in the experts and we have so many in this area and they're very generous and come talk to the students and that occasionally leads to internships or even a path to a career, sometimes Exciting to see a path to a career, sometimes, okay, exciting to see.

Chef James: 3:47

Wow, that's, it's great. I mean we, we really are wrapped with a lot of producers. You know, in many aspects I think we're what? Over four, is it 475 or 450 just in the Berkshire region of like farms and producers of. You know it's unbelievable. And and it's it's interesting, you say that too because I know, like Topher up at Cricket Creek Farm, you know they back in the day did cheese classes. So you know, making the Maggie's round. You know I can say from being a chef that you know if a cook or even a server and anybody that were to go up and do these classes, you know, and you being, you know, such a valuable educator and taking someone in, it's like walking the fields or picking, you know you get such a high level of appreciation for the craft for foraging. Oh, it's, it's unbelievable.

Maryann: 4:40

And what it takes to produce food and what it? Should cost what it does cost, and it does give them exposure, students exposure to what they might like to do. But if nothing else, you go into the dining hall the next day and you think, oh right, this isn't so easy. This is, this takes a lot of labor and we're not as appreciative as we should be and maybe they think more about where their food comes from and and what they eat and how they eat.

Chef James: 5:00

Yeah, Well, that's funny. It's funny because you look at like some of the kids they go to the grocery store and that just stops there.

Maryann: 5:08

Right, that's as far as it goes. So the other part of my job is running the Center for Food and Resilience, which includes the farm, includes our sugar, our maple syrup operation. It includes the apiary with our honey production Amazing, I don't, yeah. So I'm supervising all of those places, but I don't necessarily do the work. We have a great faculty member in environmental studies who runs the apiary. We have somebody else who is managing the sugar shack, and students are involved in all of that work.

Maryann: 5:37

So, we produce Simon's Rock honey. The students have a class where they learn to manage the hives and they learn about the history of it and they have debates about it. And then learn to manage the hives and they learn about the history of it, and and they have debates about it. And then they process the honey. Same thing, yeah, and the maple syrup class. They do a history of maple syrup production in the region, okay, which is really good for them to know, and I'm certain that a lot of them have never thought about where maple syrup comes from yeah, or how long it takes to get that one quarter, one cup or whatever here it is yes, yeah, yeah yeah it can be, depending on the student.

Maryann: 6:07

Can be chemistry or physics. So we have a reverse osmosis system that we just installed this year. Oh, very nice so that makes it more efficient. But then you talk to the students about what that is and how it works and sure and then the last uh piece that I manage is our conference, our annual conference called think food yep it. That's in November, november 16th, this year.

Chef James: 6:27

Okay.

Maryann: 6:28

And that's yeah. So it's a different theme every year and I invite again the experts from all over because we have so many of them and we do workshops and there are panels and it's a way for people who want to know more about the food system to learn more about it. And really what I want to do is share, kind of what you do with this podcast, share the exciting work that people are doing around here. That may not get enough press, it may not get enough pleasure. Wow, yeah, it's for students, but it's also for we have a really active community of food, interested people in the Berkshires and they do come out.

Chef James: 7:01

That's great, Okay, and do you find I mean you cover so many aspects of it what do you find that the students take away from the most?

Maryann: 7:12

I mean, that's kind of a broad question, but I really think the most popular part of the courses I teach is that hands-on part. Part of it is it's fun and there really is something you know there's very well. There's something about making food with people. It's a whole different atmosphere. It's a very different way of interacting with somebody else when you've made food and collaborated together. It's also really good life skills. Some of them have not really held a knife or never thought about how to cook an egg.

Maryann: 7:40

Some of that is true, but I think also it's that they sort of have to be brave and maybe I'm asking them to flip a crepe, and they've never done that before and they're standing in front of their friends, so there's a little bit of trying something new. I think that's valuable. But in the other, there's a class that I teach that's called Sustainable Local Food. Wow, it's an international course, which is to say that we have Simon's Rock students here and then we connect online with students from other places, including Taiwan and Austria and anyway, lots of other places. So we do farm visits here and the Berkshires is a completely different place in terms of local agriculture from the Midwest, but definitely from those other places I'm mentioning and so we take them on farm visits and that you see the eyes opening and the real understanding taking place. They get the sense, as you're saying, of how hard it is to be, what kind of work is involved in being a farmer and what different elements you have to manage.

Maryann: 8:35

It's the economics of it. It's the business part of it. It's thinking about where your workers are going to live, because housing is really difficult. Oh, yes, yeah, and then you get and then the food part of it. So what we've even had farmers talk to us about, I, like the farmer, wants to sell kohlrabi because they just love kohlrabi. Well, is that going to work in CSA, or you're?

Chef James: 8:54

telling you.

Maryann: 8:55

I don't know what to do with the kohlrabi.

Chef James: 8:56

Yeah.

Maryann: 8:58

And the food access part. The same way, our farm produces food in the summer, when our season is the highest, but our students don't. We don't have a summer session, so a lot of our produce we donate to food pantries.

Chef James: 9:11

Oh, okay, yes.

Maryann: 9:12

So, which is great and wonderful and great for students to do that work, but you also think about what do people going to food pantries want to eat and what can they, what do they have time to process? So we need to, so that all is really valuable experience for the students and to think about right.

Chef James: 9:27

Do you go into food like preparation storage, like canning? I mean off-season storage.

Maryann: 9:34

We would like to get there in the fermented foods class we do right on that but we haven't quite done value-added yet here, except except for the honey and the maple syrup. But we, for example, grow a lot of herbs and we just made a tea blend that we're going to try. We're going to give out samples at our farm stand and see how people like it, and then maybe we'll think about that.

Chef James: 9:54

OK.

Maryann: 9:55

Not yet, but that's something else that is of interest.

Chef James: 9:58

So do you have any like, do you have any animals in the field?

Maryann: 10:01

I mean, do you see that working in, or we did have chickens this year, but because the students they think they don't understand that it's a 24-7 job so and in the winter we don't have a frost free faucet nearby, so it was difficult to get to maintain the chickens. So we ended up making the decision to give them to another farm where they had more room and more care and the students were. We had a long discussion about it. They really liked the eggs. The eggs were fantastic, the freshest, and that was another way we could respond to food access. So some of the students do have needs. They don't. They're on the dining hall meal plan maybe, but they don't have maybe enough money to buy food. So it was a great source of protein for students.

Chef James: 10:47

Oh, that's great yeah.

Maryann: 10:47

Loved it, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of management and we just couldn't. We're too small to really make that go.

Chef James: 10:52

Okay.

Maryann: 10:53

So we don't currently have any animals. A few years ago we had hosted some pigs, sort of a shared agreement. A local farm was offering to have um take the pigs for a season and then we would share in the bounty when the pigs were slaughtered. But we didn't get that far because the students really liked letting the pigs go. Letting the pigs one of their pens.

Maryann: 11:15

Yeah, and then you get a call that somebody had to get the pig out of the pond and it right, we ended that experiment, yeah yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, that probably would have been a lot of fun.

Chef James: 11:27

At least it wasn't goats, you know, then they really yes, I don't think I want to.

Maryann: 11:32

We had sheep too, but the sheep farmer was an alum and would come regularly and maintain the sheep.

Chef James: 11:38

So, yeah, those are. Those are kind of fun too, though. On our farm, northern California, my cousins were in FFA and that was, you know, being a part of that and that process growing up around all that it's, you know, I think, the farm environment. I wish every kid could have that experience because it's really rich. I wouldn't have picked the career path that I did today had I not had amazing people that showed me, you know, because we had our 400 acre farm in Northern California.

Chef James: 12:13

I know we shared a little bit about you know that and some things that went on that led me into the path of looking at our food system too over the many years. But you know, being able to get on that land with a family member and just work the land. You know whether it's lifting mainline or doing anything or going out and picking something. You know like the kids go out and grab something and you're like now we're going to make, you know, a soup out of this. Or the kohlrabi, let's make a kohlrabi tart, or right, you know let's ferment this and sure, and the lacto, you know the lacto fermentation, the lactobacillus, that happens, um, you know. Or making that cheese and you know cutting the curd and separating the whey, and there's a lot of work involved, you know, um, that's thinking about the start, you know I and thinking about the start.

Maryann: 13:03

You know I was thinking about the less fun jobs on the farm weeding, composting but then you understand how necessary that is and that food doesn't happen unless we do those jobs too Right. And I think the students really I'm surprised by some of them in my classes who really take to that and I wouldn't necessarily choose them, but there's something really meditative about it or there can be Sure.

Maryann: 13:23

And just get outside, choose them, but there's something really meditative about, or there can be sure and just get outside and we have a beautiful space here in the berkshire, so the birds come along. You see the sky change you yeah you're outside in the, in the winds blowing, you know, it's just a lovely place, and so I think to get them to experience that is really valuable to, along with the hard work sure y'all need to do sometimes. Just right, yeah work.

Chef James: 13:43

It's so great. When you see them light up it's like, oh, there they go, they see it. But I mean speaking of all the programming that you do do, and you mentioned small. I mean really, what size are we looking at?

Maryann: 13:55

So we have about 300 students on campus.

Chef James: 13:58

Okay.

Maryann: 13:58

And that's. We have two programs. We have a college program that's a four-year program, and we have an academy which is a ninth and tenth grade, which is much smaller. But, um, and so all of those students are here. Not all of them live on campus. Some of them are day students, um, some of them study abroad.

Maryann: 14:14

so we were talking about italy as we as we came into the conversation. So we have a study abroad program in italy for students in food studies, which which is one of our majors we call them concentrations, but it's a major so there are students abroad at different times of the year.

Maryann: 14:32

So it's small and you do get to know everybody, but that also means that you know them well and they know you well and there's lots of hands-on attention and it's really good to it's. It's a good group. It's about 10 or 15 students in a class, so that's a nice manageable you really can. If I'm teaching a food class, that's about all I want. Um.

Chef James: 14:54

I don't want more.

Maryann: 14:56

So, and in the field too, we can we teach. I teach a 10th grade academy class called organic farming and soil science.

Chef James: 15:04

Okay.

Maryann: 15:06

Yeah, a 10th grade academy class called organic farming and soil science. Okay, yeah, and we essentially give them in teams, we give them beds and they grow seeds that we've chosen and then they do experiments on might be companion planting, might be soil testing. Um, and that's a good age to start yeah because they may not have done much of it, yeah and um, and then they we say we start from.

Maryann: 15:25

You know an undone bed, so you have to take the weeds out and oh, wow use the fork to till it and then put some compost on and then you plant the seeds and then you watch and you compare your bed to others next to you and yeah, it's really fascinating. And in the end we harvest and take it to the dining hall. So we parade across campus and presented, so we take them into the back door of the dining hall. They may not have known. That's how they may not have been through.

Maryann: 15:49

And and then they really do take a pride. Take some pride in that food that they've grown right then they're eating in their meals, or I hope they tell your the friends about it too oh yeah, I mean I'm sure they do you know.

Chef James: 16:04

Now, in the acreage though, I mean, what's the total acreage you're looking at? Because it's so.

Maryann: 16:10

The campus is about 300 acres.

Chef James: 16:11

Okay, there we go. It's a very big space.

Maryann: 16:19

Yeah, that's great campus and the upper campus is more upper level students because it's a bit of a hike. Okay, the campus is more of all the classrooms and the library and the farm administrative buildings, but the sugar shack, for example, is on upper campus, so that's far away. So we do have quite a lot of land, but we don't necessarily use it all directly.

Chef James: 16:40

Yeah, Do you do any mushroom foraging at all? I mean, I'm sure you know.

Maryann: 16:44

It's funny, it kind of comes in phases. So we had, at one of the Think Food conferences a couple of years ago, we did have a forager come and sort of take you on a walk and show you what's safe. And then every couple of years I'll have a group of students that's very interested and they'll go into the woods and find, you know, we found morels. Yep, we found some pretty good.

Maryann: 17:02

Oh wow and some other good ones and we have a botanist who will verify your find. So we tell you know, we tell students unless you really know what you're doing, don't eat it unless you've asked.

Chef James: 17:13

Right.

Maryann: 17:14

And so I think they share that knowledge with each other, and so we don't have a course on it, necessarily, but we do have students who are interested.

Chef James: 17:21

Wow, that's so great. And then looking at, for example, like your maple production, I mean how many trees do you have? I mean, do you have a?

Maryann: 17:28

want to get to to sort of up the production. So we're talking about really working on that sugar bush and making it neater and taking out some of the dead trees and yeah and increasing our production, again with the help of students, because we want this right, no, that's great.

Chef James: 17:59

And then is there, for example I mean, do you have like fruit trees, trees, is there an orchard?

Maryann: 18:05

We do have an orchard. That was here when the campus was originally a farm.

Chef James: 18:11

Yeah.

Maryann: 18:12

The person who started the school took her family's farm and turned it into Simon's Rock, and so we do have some older apple trees.

Chef James: 18:21

Okay.

Maryann: 18:22

Yeah, and we don't take great care of them because they sort of ended up being lesser in importance. But they do produce fruit. So in October we collect the apples that we have and we have a for family weekend. We have a cider press, food and resilience does a cider press and we press fresh. It's not really cider, I guess, if it's fresh apple juice and and we also do an apple tasting, oh cool. So the fruit trees on campus that we can identify will have tastings.

Maryann: 18:51

And there again. That's education. We'll bring in other local apples from other places. Taft Farms is a good one. We have labels and then we let people vote for their favorite and they debate yeah.

Chef James: 19:02

Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, i'll's parents come from california and say I've never tasted that, I've never even heard of this kind of apple and oh yeah, that's fun it's unbelievable, the varieties I mean I worked a lot with like hilltop orchard back in the day, but I love using their product all the time. Yes, of course there's bartlett too, so yes, yes um, they're both great orchards, but that's so cool. Have you done any apple butter with it or anything like that?

Maryann: 19:28

No, we really don't. I mean, it depends on the year. We don't get too too many apples and we do have pear trees as well.

Chef James: 19:34

Oh nice.

Maryann: 19:35

Yeah, so we need to see if those are producing again. So we don't really have enough to make the product, so we just use it for that one event. And then I do have students again. They find out that we have an apple press, cider press, and they asked to borrow it. So I had a student and he must've gone somewhere else to get the apples. And then he a couple of times asked to press the, so sure.

Chef James: 19:53

Okay.

Maryann: 19:54

That's the advantage of having a small place is that they can contact me and say I'd like to use this piece of equipment, and usually I can say yes, please go ahead, just kind of check it out, okay, yeah clean it up when you're done, and then we'll Wow.

Chef James: 20:07

So in regards to I know you were saying you deal with food pantries and I talked you know I was talking to Berkshire Grown. I've had them on a couple times in a few different ways, but that Berkshire Mobile Farmers Market yes.

Maryann: 20:22

That's pretty awesome. It's pretty amazing what they're doing. Yeah, and I happen to know about them because I have worked in different ways at Berkshire Grown but we have electric charging spots on campus. This is again the way a college can serve a community in a strange way that you may not imagine. And they needed a place to charge that van and we said, yes, of course we should bring it here and charge it, but they, yes, they have a mobile market that they go up to North County and distribute fresh produce and, yeah, it's a whole system.

Chef James: 20:49

And.

Maryann: 20:50

Birch Bounty is another really great organization in the local area Outstanding.

Chef James: 20:54

Yeah, unbelievable work. Yeah, you know, with the food insecurity. So I guess, kind of going into that, you know I know we kind of talked about, like with Dr Nessel, mary Nessel, about, you know, food politics and our food system. You know I think it's really powerful the work you know that you're doing there. You know the center in the programs that are provided there in kind of combating or forging a new thought process. I think you know in our country I think that we've come a long way, especially within the last, you know, 10 or 15 years. But just seeing this like a wait moment, I don't know if I would say an aha moment, but, like you know, wait a second yeah.

Chef James: 21:40

And you know, I think it's something to as being in the Berkshires all of our producers and people. They're very cognizant and dedicated to understanding what they're putting on their plate and how they can affect their own economy on their plate and how they can affect their own economy. And I think it's great the program that you do there. What do you find, like you know, as you work through it, building that and keep adding each year? How do you work through that process of developing all these programs that you offer?

Maryann: 22:12

Well, it's great because I always say that if you have an idea, come to me and we'll figure out how to do it. So it's really great to be in a dynamic place like the Berkshires, where there are lots of ideas and people may just need a little space to meet, or they might need a couple of students to be interns, or something, oh, okay.

Maryann: 22:30

Yeah. So we really provide, I think, a value there. But we partner with a lot of people. That's how we do all the things that do um. So extra special teas is another. Oh, they're great, aren't they? So we contacted them early on when the center for food and resilience started, and sherry uh wondered if we could collaborate. And so those uh folks come to simon's rock, to the farm, and they are growing some herbs and plants for their tea blends, and it's both that they needed some space to grow because they didn't have land, and we have some space and a good interaction. So learn a few techniques. Might be learning about farming a little bit, just to get outside and work in a group, and then our students at the same time can can learn how to uh, how to teach, maybe a little bit or okay with other people, so it's a really it's been a really great collaboration and our students have worked at the extra specialties uh shop once or twice um.

Maryann: 23:29

So that's a very nice collaboration and again we have the space. They they're very happy to welcome them and they it's. It's really fun for all of us.

Maryann: 23:41

And there's lots of other collaborations like that that happen. So I work. I'm on the board of Berkshire Agricultural Ventures, which is another nonprofit supporting farmers in the area, and they we've had intern students who work there as interns. They are a sponsor of Think. Food Berkshire is also a sponsor of think food. Okay, also a sponsor of think food, and so when they have a speaker that I might want to know about, they let me know, or if they have an amazing farm that they were supporting.

Chef James: 24:07

Sure.

Maryann: 24:08

It's. It's a good sort of back and forth that we have in the community. That's really helpful to me and you know we Simon's Rock is not a formal place, so we really do a lot of community work you know we can accommodate it. There's not a lot of bureaucracy, there's not too many impediments to reaching out and making a collaboration. So that's a lot of what I've done.

Chef James: 24:32

So you really get an opportunity to have some level of great freedom really.

Maryann: 24:37

Yes, yes, that is a great advantage of Simon's Rock is that they want to encourage us. Again, we're small. We want the students to have experiences, however, we can make them happen. So, yes, if we can reach out to somebody in the community, we should do that. And it's a small town, so I think Simon's Rock is not as well known as maybe it should be. So that's it's good for us to invite people onto campus, and but I always think we have space, we have facilities. I'd like to share them.

Chef James: 25:06

And.

Maryann: 25:07

I'm empowered to do that.

Chef James: 25:08

OK, no, that's, that's just. That's great Looking at. I guess you know moving forward. I mean you cover so many other programs. You cover a lot. Are there programs that in the future you'd love to see develop into more?

Maryann: 25:25

We're always thinking about new, what we can do next. I think our focus right now is developing Sugar Shack, maybe doing more of that, and so we had an idea of having a Maple Day, and again it's all education oriented. So could we invite people to learn how to do it or to maybe update what they have or learn from other people who do it in a bigger way than we do. So that's one we have an idea with our summer. So I have some summer students working on the farm and we'd like to sort of rotate and share work crews with other farms in the area. So Greenagers is an organization that does really great work like this. They have work crews and I don't know if they're doing it right now, but they used to offer to rotate around and sort of give shared labor to other farms.

Maryann: 26:10

You might just need a day of picking or a day of weeding. So I'd like to offer that more to our students, but also to the other farms who might need a little. So I'd like to offer that more to our students, but also to the other farms who might need a little support, a little assistance. And I'd like to grow ThinkFood to a bigger event. It's a great event and I just would like more people to know about it and serve more people that way, yeah.

Maryann: 26:38

And then I think you know the dining hall. We again, our seasons are a little off, so we produce the most food in in the summer, but our dining hall is not working at full capacity in the summer because we don't have summer classes I can't use quite a bit for other groups. But I'd like to sort of if we could move toward a greenhouse or a high tunnel, we could do more extended season crops and really oh, okay, yeah, yeah, and you don't have okay, okay yeah, so, yeah.

Maryann: 26:58

So that's, those are some, some ideas.

Chef James: 27:00

Okay, nice. Well, so looking at you as such an important educator and these programs that are going on, what? What are your drivers? I mean what you know, what propels you into developing all this and what's at the heart that drives you?

Maryann: 27:22

Well, I've been fascinated by food for as long as I can remember, so I really I call myself an omnivore. I'm sort of an omnivore in the research part too. I'm really interested in all of it, and I did not come from a farming background.

Maryann: 27:37

It's really sort of amusing to some of my colleagues to see what the work that I'm doing now. So I'm just interested in all of it and I really am empowered. I'm really charged up by seeing what wonderful work farmers do and food people and then the most generous people I know. So I think I'm really encouraged by what the work they do and I just want to know more. And again, since I have the freedom at Simon's Rock to sort of develop my own programs, that's also a real energy benefit. But in my work with students teaching they really bring the enthusiasm.

Maryann: 28:12

That's what makes me want to do it. So I really want to meet the needs of students or the desire of students as much as I can. So I really want to meet the needs of students or the desire of students as much as I can and we can. In a small place like this, I can develop a new course that might feed the need of somebody who just thought of I'd really like to know more about this topic, and we do it together and we can do that. So I mean the energy they bring to the courses that I teach where there's a cooking section or a hands-on section is really enthusiastic and really empowering for me.

Maryann: 28:42

So that's what I'm doing, and then I really I get to spend my career pursuing something that I'm genuinely interested in. So I'm about to head off to a conference in Italy, which is exactly the site of our study abroad food studies program, but I'm going there to present a paper about French food, and I've written a couple of books on French food and published some articles. So I get to go to Italy and eat fantastic food and be immersed in it while I'm doing my work, while I'm actually doing professional work. So that's really amazing to me. I can't believe I got that.

Chef James: 29:16

I think that's so great.

Maryann: 29:20

Yeah, it's not when I went to graduate students graduate school, for I went to graduate school for French literature and I still I'm passionate about French literature and still teach it somewhat, but this is this has become my new, my new passion.

Chef James: 29:34

Right, well, that's, that's so great. It's funny Cause I know we were talking. I just got back from Italy myself, you know, and it's. It's such a beautiful country, the culture, the art, it's kind of mind-blowing.

Chef James: 29:48

And again going into it as a chef, oh, yes you know, yeah, looking at what they produce and you know I had their produce I mean I had what I would call like a. It would be like a Saturn peach. It was kind of like more of a flat peach disc shape. And I found a small. Where we were staying was a small village and I went to the market there, a very small market, with one of the ladies who you know probably has ran it for many, many years, and I went in there. I was just mind blown at all of the selections she actually had in there. It was like a very small space.

Chef James: 30:24

It might have been 150 square feet or something, but like not and so, going through the produce and then even that peach that I got one day that was a little under ripe, I was like I'm just going to go ahead and eat this, you know, and I did, and I was still blown away by all of the flavor that was in that peach. And then, you know, I went back a couple of days later and you know, obviously they were ripe and got some more but, um, you know, they're ripening the blood oranges. I couldn't believe the?

Chef James: 30:58

I mean, there there's the membrane. It was so thin because those citrus pearls were so full of juice that, like it was almost just you cut it open. You're like, wow, you know, or some of the melons, you know, I can't. You know, I think I'm very analytical about it. I'm going, okay, I'm grateful for, you know, my country and our producers, from our entire country.

Chef James: 31:24

But like, looking at how we've been so assertive in pushing our ag system Right, and you know, and talking to Dr Nessel about that, we literally produce double the amount of calories in product that we need for a man or a woman to sustain themselves daily, you know, it's kind of mind blowing, you know. So it's like geez, we're in such a hurry to feed and, yes, we're a massive country and a lot of mouths to feed but I'm like, wow, if we could. Just, you know, it's like using our local farms. Here they have that presence of being able to. I don't want to say slow farm, because that's like slow food, right, Like you know, slow farming is like letting something take that time it needs to develop the flavor, to develop the sugars you know whether it's a piece of fruit or an animal Right you know.

Maryann: 32:28

And harvesting at exactly the right time You're talking about the ripeness of the peach right. So maybe it's not the week to pick, whatever it is but when you get it from the farmer's market, it will be, it will be.

Chef James: 32:38

It's excellent, you know or you go to taft and they have their, the strawberries that they bring in um, or, you know, indian line farm, or some of these, or the berry patch I mean, yes, they're all, they're all outstanding, you know and to be able to be spoiled in the Berkshires and the chef. You know I share with chefs across the country that New England and the Berkshires it. It's like, you know, I'm given all of these colors by such gifted people that as a chef, it's like all right, man, now you've got to do it, I've got to be right by everybody.

Maryann: 33:24

And I think there's a public for it too that you're. You're eating people who really want that and recognize that great quality, and I hope they want to pay what you deserve to be paid for. It too is the other side.

Chef James: 33:37

but yeah, you do. You hope for it. I mean it's you know I'm able to do what I can with it. But you know our farms, you know it's it's not easy for them and it's, it's hard for them to you know. Make that money off of that you know to you know, make that money off of that.

Chef James: 33:58

You know that potato Right and you know, coming from a. You know our farm, a good size farm in California. I that's where, like I know, we talked about it. But seeing the monster, you know behind the curtain, in a sense of the mass production or the push for corn and the push for soybeans and some of these other things, um, where you have just fields everywhere, you know, or the way the animals are treated you know right you can uh exactly the stockyards and the pen right, the effect on the soil and you know, but we only have this one earth, uh.

Maryann: 34:33

so we need to think about where that's going, and that's consumer led too. You know, we have some power as consumers to say that's not the way I want my food to be.

Chef James: 34:43

Right.

Maryann: 34:43

If you have the privilege to make those choices and I think that's part of what we teach our students is that you do have to say and you can ask the dining hall, for example, to bring in more local food, and they will listen because you're the consumer.

Chef James: 34:57

Yeah, that's great.

Maryann: 34:59

So, and yeah, I do like that big picture lesson that we try to teach and I think you're right that these local farms they make amazing, they grow amazing produce and there's lots of meat farmers around here too that give us amazing products and I just want them to keep going. I think we do. I mean, if you go to the farmer's market, it's lively, there's lots of people, there's lots of fans.

Chef James: 35:25

And.

Maryann: 35:26

I think it's a vibrant food location, so I'm lucky to be here too. That's how I feel, oh yeah.

Chef James: 35:32

It's so great and and it's, and there are under. There are organizations in our community like bav, you know um. I had jake levin and oh yes, ren, on you know and how they work together and what they're dealing with and you know, you're, you're, you're intermixed as well and in some of conversations it's like the more people that I meet and talk about.

Maryann: 35:56

And lots of interweaving of different organizations, which is necessary in a small place.

Chef James: 36:01

Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And you know, working through those relationships and even some of the things that you know, like Jake had mentioned, you know my goal is for us to develop this thing so that these farmers can be in their fields. You know my goal is for us to develop this thing so that these farmers can be in their fields. You know these ranchers, they can be the producer they need to be doing what they love to do and hopefully we can take, you know, some of these other assistance programs, or you know logistic support programs so that they can just keep producing Right.

Maryann: 36:37

And that's pretty awesome. Yes, and I think that's. A great value of BAV and that's why I'm happy to be on their board is that they can keep the farmers farming and bring them this information or these trainings or whatever it is they might need, and then we can keep having a healthy farm system here. And it goes beyond the Berkshires too Taconic and Hudson Valley and Litchfield County.

Chef James: 36:57

So yeah, it's an amazing organization.

Maryann: 36:59

It's just a really top-notch staff.

Chef James: 37:02

Yeah, I mean, and I think what's really powerful is that it is a nucleus of very talented people, but I think the most important is that they're they're passionate, they're committed, they're driven. Absolutely Everything else will come out of that because it's going to happen.

Maryann: 37:20

Yes, that's right. And insightful too. I mean to recognize what farmers might need, or listen when farmers say here, this isn't working so well, what are the solutions?

Chef James: 37:32

Right, so well, what are the solutions? Right, well, and that's the other thing, like programs and technology and some of these other things that you know. They may not have been aware that. Hey, if you go on the website you can look this up and get you know further information on it, and it's just so amazing to know that that's being put in place because it's you know, that's not the. It may be a concern, that's in front of you, but finding the resources is not always the easiest especially when you're very busy doing all the other things required of you, right?

Chef James: 38:03

well, you know before you know, like I always said it was, you know you're. You're going before the sun comes up and you're still going after the sun sets, especially harvest time too, definitely. Or if you're adding animal, you know care, you know that extends those hours even more Right.

Maryann: 38:22

Yes, we were talking to. I took my students to visit Freund Farm, oh yeah. And that's a dairy farm, they're great. They are great and they have these amazing robotic milkers oh, okay we hadn't. I had never seen before. My students found the best thing. But yeah, to talk about what the what the day is like and yeah it. Cows do not know that it's sunday or that it's christmas no, no, they just move yeah they just eat they, they need so and they appreciate the pressure release.

Chef James: 38:54

Yes, right, it's more comfortable.

Maryann: 38:57

It was fascinating to watch that organism I guess is what you'd call it, and the thought that goes into how you keep going Right. The cow pots Do you know about the cow pots?

Chef James: 39:08

Well, it's funny, I actually went down to Forens because I get stuff for our yard down there oh great, and those, yeah, I've got the. Actually went down to four rings because I get stuff for our yard down there oh great, and those, yeah, I've got their, the moopoo and all this stuff, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm stocked and those are great though yeah, it was fascinating for the students to see okay, here's something else that's environmental but also serves a need.

Maryann: 39:28

um, because people want these pots to plant in and then they don't have to think about tossing them aside. Right, and it goes right in the earth and it's better for your plants.

Chef James: 39:37

And it breaks right down.

Maryann: 39:39

Yeah. So, the innovation and the entrepreneurship there. That's right here in our area and I love to see the students kind of click on to that and think well, you know there is a place for creativity and you know, the jobs that you might have someday are not the ones necessarily that you have in your head.

Chef James: 39:56

Right, well, and that's the thing, and I think too also especially where farming in our country, especially in the Berkshires too, is. Yeah, we've discussed and been focused on regenerative farming for a long time, but then you're getting into the no-till.

Maryann: 40:12

Yes.

Chef James: 40:13

And that's. You know again, I, you know it's the more conventional way and you know you have the machinery and it's cutting down your time and this and that and the labor and whatever. But then you know you're ripping it. You know everything apart that's been built or that's sustaining itself there in the soil. But then you know, when you look at the no-till-till you're like that's a whole, nother piece of appreciation. Yes, get on that fork and start dancing you know that's right.

Maryann: 40:42

Yeah, one thing to watch, it's another thing to do it yourself and oh yeah when we go on these farm visits, sometimes says when woven roots is a good one. So yeah, jen and peter are amazing yeah well, she'll say here's the fork, here you can try it, and that makes an impression on students when they go. And such a beautiful place I mean, yeah, neat as a pin, so gorgeous that place that they have, it's amazing. So there's a lot of people.

Chef James: 41:06

Well, it's funny, it's, you know. That reminds me of my great grandmother. She was born in 1901. And I remember in our one farmhouse I was a kid and I went in there and she was in my grandfather's recliner and she was nodding off and I said grandmother, are you, are you tired? You seem tired. And she was and she leaned forward and she laughed and she said I'm not tired, I'm just sleepy. I haven't worked to be tired, I'm just sleepy. I haven't worked to be tired. But that generation spending time with them side by side, and then that history it's not just in that moment, but it's what that individual carries with them the rest of their lives, and especially when they may not have or as much, or even if they do, it just opens their eyes to man. I am, I got to work for this, Right. Yes, you know, and it feels good to do that. It's okay to be exhausted. Yes, Right.

Chef James: 42:19

It's okay, that's true. It's okay to get slowly up out of a chair.

Maryann: 42:23

That's right, and you've worked on it, yeah.

Chef James: 42:27

So there's a lot of power in that. But I think you know if you can grow something your own and especially nowadays you know COVID hit and people were getting into sourdough and then you know bread making and even that's even better for you and then going into growing your own product at home, because they had the time to do it Exactly and thinking about what, what you might want, what you will use.

Maryann: 42:53

I think one of the one of the elements of Simon's Rock that I sort of forget about because this is what we do naturally is we don't really dictate what the lesson is. We take the students with us and then let them explore.

Chef James: 43:06

Wow, that's very organic.

Maryann: 43:08

Yes, and that's exactly what we do, and I watched our farmer do it on the farm, so the students really have a say. So this is what we need to do. How should we do in? I watched our farmer do it on the farm, so the students really have a say. So this is what we need to do. How should we do it, or what? What would you? How would you approach this? And so there's a lot of thought to that and there's a lot of valuable. It's a valuable way of learning that I think sticks with them.

Chef James: 43:27

Well, I would say so. I mean because if you're giving an individual, especially a young person, the opportunity to have a voice and be a part of the conversation, instead of kind of being led or I don't want to say dictated, but like led to that conclusion and they're able to see an idea and put it forward without, you know, restriction or judgment right right that may not work and then there's a value in that too.

Maryann: 43:54

That's the resilient part. It didn't work, that's okay. The world didn't end, we'll try it.

Chef James: 43:59

We'll try it another way, well because then you, you learned that not everything needs to be perfect. You know, and that's like I was talking to people, it's you know, or some of our farmers or chefs. It's like our food system is so set up. It's like that apples, that apple. You know that potato is not a 90 count. Get it out of here.

Maryann: 44:20

Right.

Chef James: 44:20

Nor these blemishes or these things that you know, they, they, they won't make it to the market. You know they won't make it to the big grocery store chains because it's not absolutely perfect.

Maryann: 44:32

Right.

Chef James: 44:32

But yet you know, why can't a family you know go in and get that at a discount or whatever it is, at the farm store? You know, it's just these big farms just kind of have standardized perfection to the point where yeah, and that's the market that's dictating.

Maryann: 44:49

You know, they haven't chosen to, they're in the system.

Chef James: 44:52

Right.

Maryann: 44:52

Yeah, that's the other value of small is that you can sort of understand. Somebody can teach you that, yeah, blemish is not poisonous, it's perfectly fine, um right the greens are a little a little holy, that's okay.

Chef James: 45:06

Yeah, right, well, I think that's. You know, whether it's being a young person or even you know, thinking about that, when you said that as a chef, you know. Again it's. I keep saying said that as a chef, you know, again it's. I keep saying it's storyteller or advocate for my producers of this community, but, like you know, I let people know it's. You're not. It's great to have that five ounce chicken breast, but you're, it's not always going to be perfect, right. And so you find different ways to be creative, develop plates and and whatever, and I think people appreciate that, that clarity, that that honesty of like yes, honesty is a great word.

Maryann: 45:41

Yes, yeah, honestly, genuine. All of those I think are really valuable and I think it lets people take ownership of what they're doing because they're not so afraid of of criticism. Right, we're all in it together and we're just, we're trying to make something beautiful and it may not be perfect, but yeah you invite people in. I think that's what, that's the value yeah, that's, that's it for sure. Yeah, keeps the communication going yes, right so we can all learn something from each other yeah, that's.

Chef James: 46:11

I think that's a key to life, to be honest. So when you're looking at Think, like Think Food Conference, do you want to talk a little bit about those classes and the structure of that?

Maryann: 46:25

Yes, so it's a day-long conference in November November 16th this year and we this year's theme is food and health, so we're thinking about where food overlaps with health. It could be directly, it could be that the food you eat. We can talk about local food being part of that. I want to talk about the health of communities, so it could be that the local community is served by our agricultural bounty, but it's also creating communities. So LGBTQ spaces for food, which we do have in the Berkshires and beyond, and healthy bodies, healthy production and healthy planet. So those are all themes that we'll explore and it depends on what our slate will be eventually. But we'll have workshops or panels or discussions and it's meant to be sort of open-ended too, where you can ask questions and learn from experts.

Maryann: 47:18

So it's all about bringing in the experts to talk about what they do and what other really great innovations in food that we should know about in the Berkshires and beyond. And yeah, so it's a day-long Saturday conference and it's on campus, so people can explore the campus too. We do try to have, we do try to have a hands-on or a demonstration of some kind too, so I'm not sure what that will be yet, but we'll think of one oh, that's okay, that sounds exciting.

Chef James: 47:44

Yeah, so last year we had a.

Maryann: 47:46

We had a um a tree pruning, orchard pruning some sort of demonstration, uh, and that interesting. And so one year we had jam making so I had somebody come in and make I think it was strawberry jam, and you could learn how to do it, so something. So we do try to combine the hands-on with the intellectual, with the discussion part of it.

Chef James: 48:07

Oh, that's great. Well, you know, I think too, you get people really drawn in, it pulls them, you know, and it locks into their mind even more.

Maryann: 48:15

Right, you take a Saturday and you sort of think big picture or just learn something new about the area you live in and you didn't quite know about, and then we always have a great brunch at the dining hall with lots of local foods and that's another way for people to say, oh, I've heard of this farm, I didn't know, you know. So it's more exposure for our friends in the community.

Chef James: 48:35

How many people usually attend that uh around 60 to 80 60.

Maryann: 48:39

Wow, that's a good turnout, that's great yeah, it's a good day and it's great to see people again. It's all about exposure. I want people to know about these great people in the community, just like you yeah, oh nice, that's awesome.

Chef James: 48:50

So, in the sense of support, is there anything that you know that you all need there, that the community you know you'd like to put forward?

Maryann: 48:59

Oh well, we'd love to have more community partners. So if there's, if there are people out there who have an idea that we could help work on at the Center for Food and Resilience, we do hope to produce some, to create some workshops at the center to create some workshops at the center, okay, and that could be lots of things. So we're willing to talk to people. We do want to reach out to community partners and have more collaborations.

Maryann: 49:22

And then, as far as food goes, sign up. Come on over, sign up for the conference and come attend. We'd love to have you.

Chef James: 49:29

Okay, I'd love to go, and it sounds like I. Well, you have my number, so now I will.

Maryann: 49:34

I'd love to go and it sounds like I sounds like well, you have my number, so now I'll make sure you have the invitation.

Chef James: 49:36

Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be great and I think it's important too. If there's anything that comes up, I'd be happy to be a part of.

Maryann: 49:42

Great Excellent.

Chef James: 49:43

Oh, absolutely so. Yeah, no, that's wonderful.

Maryann: 49:56

Website. Is there any any specific websites they can go to? Yes, so simons-rockedu is our school website and you can find the.

Chef James: 50:00

Center for.

Maryann: 50:00

Food and Resilience page on there and the Think Food page on that, simons-rockedu.

Chef James: 50:03

Very cool, all right. Well, Maryann, you know, thank you so much for your time and all the work that you do, that everyone does there. It's really inspiring to hear more about the programming and really you've got a lot going on. It's pretty amazing work.

Maryann: 50:24

So thank you for doing that and thanks for the chance to talk about it. It was really great to explore it with you. It's really wonderful that you're doing this work too.

Chef James: 50:32

Maybe we can, you know, do another podcast. I can get over there, or or what have you but um?

Maryann: 50:38

fantastic.

Chef James: 50:39

We'll host you. Okay, wow, there we go. Well, thank you very much, and uh, and take care. Thank you, thanks for having me. Yeah, all right, everyone, that is a wrap. You can check us out If you like that. Subscribe Also the Instagram Chef Massey. Let's keep it simple, chefmasseycom. Have a good one. Bye for now.