Have you ever found yourself reminiscing about those precious childhood moments that seem to anchor your heart in joy, no matter where life takes you? That's where we begin our journey today: a tender stroll down memory lane to Shelter Island, a place that holds a special warmth in our lives. I, Noel, joined by my co-host Lena, bring you a heartfelt episode of "Let That Shift Go," where we unwrap the layers of personal trials, marriage complexities, and the growth that blossoms from vulnerability. We'll share tales of seeking stability amid the tumult of a relationship teetering on the edge, finding solace and strength in understanding attachment styles, and the profound symbolism a wedding ring can hold.
As we continue, you'll be privy to a transformative conversation about the metamorphosis of a marriage from a state of indifference to one rich with compassion and vulnerability. Discover how a moment of public embarrassment can ignite a powerful shift, leading to new understandings of self-care and the delicate dance of emotional support within a partnership. We'll reveal the societal pressures that shroud men in an armor of unwavering strength and the liberating experience of creating a safe space for genuine self-expression at home. This chapter of our discussion is an ode to the healing effects of empathy and the fortitude that comes from shared burdens and mutual support.
In our final chapter, we turn to the subtle, yet significant shifts in communication that can redefine relationships, drawing on parallels from the professional realm, specifically the pool industry. Here, we underscore the dedication that change demands, sharing personal anecdotes and insights that serve as a beacon for those navigating similar waters. You're not just a listener; you're a key part of our community. So, as we wrap up this thought-provoking episode, we invite you to shape our future discussions. Send us your questions and join us in this shared journey toward deeper understanding and connection in our relationships.
Have you ever found yourself reminiscing about those precious childhood moments that seem to anchor your heart in joy, no matter where life takes you? That's where we begin our journey today: a tender stroll down memory lane to Shelter Island, a place that holds a special warmth in our lives. I, Noel, joined by my co-host Lena, bring you a heartfelt episode of "Let That Shift Go," where we unwrap the layers of personal trials, marriage complexities, and the growth that blossoms from vulnerability. We'll share tales of seeking stability amid the tumult of a relationship teetering on the edge, finding solace and strength in understanding attachment styles, and the profound symbolism a wedding ring can hold.
As we continue, you'll be privy to a transformative conversation about the metamorphosis of a marriage from a state of indifference to one rich with compassion and vulnerability. Discover how a moment of public embarrassment can ignite a powerful shift, leading to new understandings of self-care and the delicate dance of emotional support within a partnership. We'll reveal the societal pressures that shroud men in an armor of unwavering strength and the liberating experience of creating a safe space for genuine self-expression at home. This chapter of our discussion is an ode to the healing effects of empathy and the fortitude that comes from shared burdens and mutual support.
In our final chapter, we turn to the subtle, yet significant shifts in communication that can redefine relationships, drawing on parallels from the professional realm, specifically the pool industry. Here, we underscore the dedication that change demands, sharing personal anecdotes and insights that serve as a beacon for those navigating similar waters. You're not just a listener; you're a key part of our community. So, as we wrap up this thought-provoking episode, we invite you to shape our future discussions. Send us your questions and join us in this shared journey toward deeper understanding and connection in our relationships.
Hello and welcome to the Let that Shift Go podcast. I'm Noelle.
Speaker 2:
And I'm Lina.
Speaker 1:
And this is where we talk about the good, the bad and all the shift in between. We just talk mad shift, let's get into it and on this week's episode we're going to talk about a shift I recently took.
Speaker 2:
Big shift.
Speaker 1:
A big fat shift.
Speaker 2:
And I have no idea what it is.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So I figured I'd just share with you, but maybe share with everybody at the same time. It's something deeply personal, but I thought why not share? But first let's get into these skin deep cards and see if we can open up a little vulnerability. Make me feel a little easier about what I'm about to do here. You want? To go first, or me. You go first, all right. The question is when you think of our family, what is the first image that comes to your mind?
Speaker 2:
You know, dad took us to do a lot of things like at Shelter Island when we were little. When I think about like the happier things, it's that he used to take us to go do stuff all the time outside and that we would always be doing things like a bucket of sand and baking on a string or whatever, and it was like we would just play.
Speaker 1:
Or catch crabs on the rocks. Yep, yeah, I do. I remember that. Yep, yep, yep, yep. That's a good image. It really brought me back to those times. Yep, I remember hanging out at Shelter Island in the motor home or in a van or whatever and just Play, play.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. And he never said you can't bring those back with you. We'd have a bucket of crabs and it's like cool.
Speaker 1:
You know, nobody was like we can't bring those. I think. What's your question? What do you really want to tell me? Well, a perfect segue into this topic about me recently taking a shift.
Speaker 1:
So some of you may know I've been going through a lot of changes in my marriage and in my family, been close to divorce a couple of times.
Speaker 1:
We've been married since 1999 and together since 1991.
Speaker 1:
And through that time we've changed significantly as people and individuals.
Speaker 1:
And more recently, since I've been coming to my awareness, I have really just taken stock of how I affect other people and it's brought a lot of stuff to my attention. And through this time I've been just struggling to try to, you know, pull myself back to center and be able to be response able instead of reacting to everything and being less explosive to things, and really unplugging the story behind all the hurts in me. And doing all this work and the breath work and even all of our conversations, I still struggle, you know, in me and doing all this work and the breath work and even all of our conversations, I still struggle every day and one of the biggest struggles, I think, is just myself, of security and sovereignty and just knowing that I'm okay and I have a deep abandonment issue just because of growing up and not feeling like I had any solid presence in my life and just feeling moving as a kid, as a Navy brat, and always having to start, new friends and new places to live and just being completely you know.
Speaker 2:
Like an instability. Yeah, there's no stability. Right.
Speaker 1:
And so, as an adult, I've just been seeking stability and I'm looking for that desperately now connection and stability.
Speaker 1:
And so you know, me and Ellen have been working through our process of healing and going back through and just working through the hard parts, and a lot of it is just me not hearing her message and understanding her.
Speaker 1:
And with somebody who has the avoidant type attachment style and I have an insecure attachment style or anxious attachment style, and then you have secure in the middle and then you have avoidant on the other side of that, and so we have the anxious, avoidant or a trap attachment style trap. And when I am in conflict and I need and I'm stressed, I really seek to have physical touch and quality time and hug and just really be in connect. But with Ellen she has an avoidant type attachment style, so when she gets into conflict she really wants to isolate and pull away, and so that created this real big conflict. I felt like she was never going to be there for me because she needed to pull away in the times when I needed her most, and most of it was because we didn't understand each other was because we didn't understand each other and in these last couple of years I've been really trying to understand her, which is an impossible task, but I found the key was actually just understanding myself more.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And when I found that really what I was seeking was security and stability, I find that a lot of the things that I struggle with Ellen is. I always feel like at any moment she's going to leave.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
That if I do one thing wrong, if I react the wrong way, then she's going to say you know what? I've had enough. This is taking way too long for you to change and I'm done. And for a long period of time she didn't even wear a wedding ring, and that was something that, for me, represented security and marriage and safety and stability.
Speaker 1:
And when she didn't wear it it just made me feel Unstable, Unstable. Yeah, it was representing instability for me, which is really hard. Anytime she was out in public or doing big events, I was always like, ah, but she's doing it without a ring on and all these things. But recently, in the last couple of months, she started wearing her ring again and it brought some stability back. But it scared me when she put it on.
Speaker 1:
I couldn't even acknowledge it when I came home and I saw that she was wearing her ring again. It means so much to me that I was afraid to acknowledge that she was wearing it and I didn't Because my son's friends were around. And when I saw it when I first come home and I was like, oh my gosh, what does this mean? Does this mean that she's back fully? Because even though we're living in the same house, in the same room, and I feel like we're probably in a better place than we've been in a long time, I still feel that instability, Like I can't be at peace, I can't let down my guard with her because I don't feel safe.
Speaker 2:
Right, right be at peace.
Speaker 1:
I can't let down my guard with her because I don't feel safe, and recently she's been wearing a ring, but for some reason that still didn't complete it and I didn't know what it was. And I have this irrational thing that I think I need her to do something for me to feel secure, and I know everything that we talk about explains that everything that we need is within ourselves, but that's not always easy to do. Yeah, and last weekend, we've been having more and more deep conversations where we're able to resolve conflict without not being able to talk to each other afterwards. Wow, resolve conflict without not being able to talk to each other afterwards. Now we're having conversations where we're hearing each other, using the circling technique and repeating what we say and asking a deepening question, and we're doing all of that as much as we can, and it's really just helping for me to let her know that I'm hearing her and that I understand her, because I think, with the avoidant type attachment style, the thing that makes her feel secure and safe is feeling understood.
Speaker 1:
Okay, and she hasn't been able to feel that because I've spent so much time justifying what I do and why I've done it. It's because of this and because I was raised raised like this and just as I had, you know, poor examples of men and all these things. But all of that invalidates everything. Her hurt, because I'm just making excuses for why I did something and not understanding how I hurt her, how it made her feel and why it made her feel that way. And the second I took the time to understand that part. Things started to shift.
Speaker 2:
Once you took yourself out of the story of it and made it mean something about you and just allowed her to be heard.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and just allowed her to be heard. So, yeah, so the last weekend we were very busy and we had a family therapy together with Mary Gail and with my younger son, and it was incredibly moving because I was able to hear and repeat back to my son and hear things and hear each other and I think we all we all three of us came to a place where we just had an understanding and a more clarity, especially for Logan being able to understand where we come from, where we're coming from, and then us hearing where he's coming from.
Speaker 2:
So everybody being able to be seen and heard?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think that's the key. And so what that did that weekend, so that was Saturday and so it was an extreme busy weekend for getting stuff done around the house and cleaning and getting stuff prepared and doing our little spring cleaning things, tools so that I have easier access to them and be able to complete tasks in a much more reasonably efficient way.
Speaker 1:
Because I spent half the time looking for a screwdriver I can't find, or these and that. So I spent time just organizing and it really felt empowering that whole weekend was buying this Milwaukee packout tool set and it just felt really great. I was doing that all day and Ellen was in the house and the kids were in the house working on the inside of the house and Ellen was doing laundry and she had asked me hey, do you want me to? You know, do your laundry for you? And I said, no, that's okay, because I actually I like doing it and for many years we've been together for 33 years and she's always done the laundry for the whole family and I kind of I really took that for granted this whole time.
Speaker 1:
But when we separated and I moved out for a period of time, I took that on doing my own laundry. It sounds minimal, but for me I'd never done it and I never folded clothes, none of that stuff. So I had to learn all of that stuff and so now it's just become a part of my self-care is folding my clothes and putting them away and it helps me to stay organized and so I like that part and I've continued, even though I'm back in the home and we're living. I still do my own laundry because I, in some ways, I don't want to be a burden to her, because I don't want to you know, I don't want to be a burden, and so she had asked me can I wash your clothes for you?
Speaker 1:
And I said, no, I got it. When I'm done doing my truck stuff, I'm going to come inside and do my laundry. And she said okay. And so I ended up staying out until nine o'clock at night working on my truck, and by the time I walked back in it was like really late. I was tired, and when I walked into the bedroom I saw that my clothes were all folded and put away nice, and I thought, wow, that was awesome. And I said thank you.
Speaker 1:
And she said, oh, I want to talk to you, I want to tell you something. And I said okay. And she said it's good, don't worry, it's nothing bad. And I said okay. So I showered and we sat down to talk and she sent me an email. She said, well, don't open the email. I want you to open it after we have this talk. And I was like what are you going to tell me? I don't know what this is. And she said, well, it's good, I just want to tell you that I was doing your laundry today and I have these work shirts, I have a uniform for doing cleaning pools and it's basically like it looks like a golfing outfit, like a polo button-up shirt, and this last 2023, I was wearing like a dark blue polo shirt and it's UV protected. It's kind of shiny a little bit.
Speaker 1:
But she's been telling this last three or four months. She's been telling me you need to buy new shirts because these are faded and they don't look good anymore. But for me, I don't. I just rather buy things forever. I focus on other people and I never really do a lot of self-care. And I've been trying to do that, got braces, now I'm losing weight, I'm taking care of myself, so, but I don't know why I didn't buy shirts or, you know, buy new uniforms for myself. And she in the past she would tell me why don't you just buy a new uniform? Those look terrible. I don't know why you don't just buy new uniforms. You're not broke, just buy the uniforms. And so that's been a nag for the last I don't know six months or so, and I haven't bought them and I'm still wearing them. And the blue shirts now look purple and you've seen them because I come here on Mondays and I wear them.
Speaker 1:
I'm not wearing it tonight because I've become self-conscious about it, but for a good reason, because she said she was folding these shirts and she remembered a story last week or the week prior where we went to my son's volleyball game and Ellen's work colors are purple. So she happened to be wearing a very nice outfit all put together because she's in sales, so she's dressed to the T's and to the nines and she's we show up to the game and I'm wearing my uniform, she's wearing her work outfit and it has purple in it. And a couple of um, another couple of one of my son's teammates said oh, you guys are so cute, you're matching, you're both wearing purple. And I got embarrassed because I was like, oh, and the first thing I thought was she's told me to buy the shirts. And now I'm embarrassed because somebody pointed it out. They didn't really notice, but the fact that it's purple just reminded me that she's been telling me, nagging me, and so I didn't say anything at that moment. I just kind of shook it off at that game and went about my business.
Speaker 1:
She started to tell me about that story. She said hey, you remember the other day when we were at the game? And they said you guys are so cute, you're wearing purple. She goes. I noticed something that shifted in me because prior to that I would have said, damn it, noelle should have bought a damn shirt. I've been telling him to buy a fucking shirt. I don been telling him to buy a fucking shirt, like I don't know why you buy a shirt. Now this lady's saying purple and all that stuff. She said normally I would have said that, but internally I felt bad for you and I thought, oh, I want to take care of him and I want to get him some shirts. And she said I noticed it was the first time that I shifted, because we got to a point where we were indifferent in our marriage and had a lot of contempt for each other, so it was hard to feel compassion for one another. And so she said I noticed that this was the first time that I genuinely had compassion.
Speaker 2:
And.
Speaker 1:
I was like wow, because I noticed in myself, I just had this feeling. You know, we've been talking about this laying the swords down, and I haven't really had that moment. Oh yeah, because I haven't been able to at home. You know, I think that in today's society, a lot of there's this perception that men have to be this warrior and strong all the time and never show weakness, even in the military. It's like oh, you're a weak mind. You're seeing a therapist. Oh, what are you weak? What's wrong with you? You have to be strong all the time. You can never show weakness, and the one place I feel that it's important to be able to show weakness as a man is when you come home you need one place that you can pull down that mask and not be a warrior and be vulnerable and just be yourself.
Speaker 1:
And I haven't been able to do that because I didn't feel like people truly cared. The compassion wasn't there, and it's what I sensed was missing in my marriage for a long time. And when she told me that story, I felt a shift.
Speaker 2:
Wow.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it was so powerful. She was like, are you okay? And I was just crying and I couldn't talk and I just I told her I just feel like I can lay down my swords. I don't have to be this warrior, even at home. I don't have to be this warrior even at home.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and all this work I've been doing and holding my center and trying to be strong and trying to be aware in how I act and how I move in the household and in everyday life, but when I come home I finally feel like I can be me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there's stable ground.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's a big shift for both of you.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and you know, armando, we came to your house the very next night and we recorded a podcast and we brought the cyber truck and you guys got to take a look at it and we were geeking out on all that. So there wasn't a lot of time to really interact with Ellen and you and Mondo and all that. But Mondo the next day had called me on Tuesday morning and was like hey, I noticed something about you yesterday. How are things with you and Ellen? Because something's different. And I was like, oh, I got to tell you something. And so I shared that story with him and I said he goes, have you told your sister? And I said no, because I want to tell her in person. It's not something that I want to just tell on the phone, because it was such a powerful shift.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that is very powerful. I mean, in telling it that I felt this like softening, really thinking about for her to be able to realize that she could feel that and that she noticed it for herself.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's an awareness within herself. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
That awareness is such a big piece and it allows for things to move and it allows for healing to happen and something that you didn't even notice until she could point it out to say like, and also to say like I got your back, you know, yeah, yeah, that was I mean in any like I got your back, you know, yeah, yeah, that was I mean in any relationship.
Speaker 1:
I think in business I say it all the time, you know, I think that's what's made my service industry business so successful is that the core of it is just knowing that the customer knows I've got their back. Yeah, that's what everybody wants in any relationship is just knowing that the person is not going to abandon you. That's what everybody wants in any relationship is just knowing that the person is not going to abandon you. He's got your back.
Speaker 2:
Well, that is something that I would say if I had to describe. Noel is like number one Is that I know for me. I know if something happens in my life you know, other than Armando Noel is the first person I call, because I know Noel has caught my back, and so it makes me I don't know so happy to know that you have that too, and I know how powerful that must have been to experience it from somebody you care so much about.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's been difficult because she's coming to her awareness in a different way than I am, and it's more. We are totally separate in our healing processes in terms of how we're healing. We don't do a lot of talking about how we're healing individually to each other, but we do bring those tools to each other when we communicate.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:
Do you think that the conversation, with being able to for her to feel seen and heard, kind of made room for that shift?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think the conversations that we've had more recently. She kind of says it feels safer to talk to me and tell me because I'm, hopefully I'm holding space you know, in a much more effective and efficient way and really understanding the circling technique and just active listening.
Speaker 2:
Deep listening.
Speaker 1:
Active deep listening and then, I think, the other key to it, because the active listening is definitely the first part of it, but you have to then do something with that, which is don't make excuses.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Own be self-convicted in the things that you've done, because you don't need to make excuses for why you did them, because that only serves you, your own ego and me. Making an excuse to the other person does nothing for them, but invalidate them them or me make an excuse for why I did it. And once I really understood that, I don't feel the need to explain myself anymore or why I did something. I'm just, I'm not perfect, I'm not. You know, I'm human and I'm going to make a mistake, so I don't need to invalidate you in order to explain why I made a mistake. I just made a mistake, I'm sorry. I could just say that. But by me in the past I still said sorry. I'm very apologetic, but I always followed that and added in an excuse.
Speaker 2:
A defense.
Speaker 1:
And it was a defense mechanism for me. But that is the critical part for Ellen. I think no-transcript what I did wrong yeah. In the past and in any time.
Speaker 2:
You know, the thing is like we talk about. We've talked about circling technique before, but I don't think that the like the power of it has been, you know, so like evident, in a way like tangible and in deep listening. You couldn't possibly be already formulating your excuse?
Speaker 2:
You, can't you can't, If you're deeply listening, possibly be already formulating your excuse. You can't. You can't. If you're deeply listening, you're not formulating your excuse. So, in that, I think that's the power right. So, like right now, with this conversation, I could come back to you with deep listening and be like okay, so what I hear you saying is that you had this very powerful moment in one, being able to be seen and heard with in your therapy, right, being able to practice that which seems like it really created a space for everyone to be able to feel like what they're saying was valid. And just by saying is this what you said? You know, is that right?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:
So you went to your therapeutic appointment. You had these conversations that are so powerful. Everybody got a turn really to be seen and heard. It wasn't about making an excuse for what happened and then you watched as your wife was able to see and hear.
Speaker 2:
It made room for her to be able to see and hear what's going on even within herself and be able to come to you in a way that she felt safe to communicate like. This is what I noticed, this is what I see, and how much space that created in you. So it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:
And just the closer to that was the email that she sent ahead of time.
Speaker 2:
Okay, what was the email?
Speaker 1:
And I was so confused. I was like I don't know what this email was about of time. Okay, what was the email? And I was so confused I was wondering what this email was about. But then afterwards I opened up the email and it said I bet you're going to say I wish you would do my laundry more often. And this is kind of what I said in my head. It was not exactly those words, but it was like, oh my gosh, this came from you doing my laundry. But it was like, oh my gosh, this came from you doing my laundry, Like you wash my laundry. I've been trying everything, every tool, everything that I've been praying and meditating on, to have this shift, and it happened because she was doing my laundry and I was trying to tell her not to.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
You know I was trying to. I almost robbed myself of that opportunity.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, by trying to just take. I'll take care of it, I can do it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
You know, instead of allowing yourself to receive.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think it's just so. The email just points out because we do. You know that there's a monk on TikTok that I watched that said you know that talks about why people yell at each other. And it has nothing to do with proximity, because often when we argue with each other we're yelling at but we're right next to each other. But the reason for that is because our hearts are far apart and our hearts feel the distance. So we feel the need to yell in order to bring your heart closer to mine again. Because, if you think about it, we yell at each other at those times but, conversely, when we feel close and connected I could look at you and not even say anything, and you know what I'm feeling there's no need to even talk, let alone yell. So it has everything to do with the closeness of our hearts is why we yell and the communication can happen just by being close with one another.
Speaker 2:
Well, think about when people are yelling. What's the main reason they're yelling?
Speaker 1:
To feel heard and seen and to be understood.
Speaker 2:
Which is the one big need as a human being.
Speaker 1:
It just takes one of you to stop and listen.
Speaker 2:
Mm-hmm being.
Speaker 1:
It just takes one of you to stop and listen. Active listening that's what I've learned because I've been doing this damn circling technique for almost two years trying, and I just kept going with it because I did see the benefit. But I didn't have this, the thing that I've been striving so hard for, it didn't. I didn't get that. Yeah From it.
Speaker 2:
Until now.
Speaker 1:
Until now yeah.
Speaker 2:
Well, that makes me so happy.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, there's. You know there's still a lot of work to be done. Yeah, but I feel we have some significant tools amongst individually for Ellen and for myself and for Logan and Aiden, both of my sons, to be able to communicate as a household in a healthy way. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean and these are things that you can practice, you know, even as a family or with friends or whatever is hey, let's do this exercise where we just like deep listen, deeply listen to one another, and what does that bring about, even just physically in your body or in the relationship?
Speaker 1:
It's hard. I think doing that I've had less success because I try. You know I talk about deep listening all the time, but what I find more practical is to just do it in my everyday conversations. I do it every time I talk to somebody Because the more and more I do it, the better I'm getting, and I think, inherently, my family around me is picking up on it, Because you always say you can't fix anybody else, you can only fix yourself. And helping other people is just I'm just a guide, you know, a signpost for what worked for me and maybe it may work for you. But if you're watching and I could lead by example that within my own house I'm seeing it come to fruition right now and it's such a blessing, it's so empowering and all the work that I've been doing has been feeling I've been the happiest and most clear and centered I've ever been in my entire life, but I've still not been able to have peace.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And I have moments of it here and there, but when you're not able to have it in your home, it doesn't quite feel like a home.
Speaker 2:
No, especially. That's where you derive so much of your safety, which all of us do.
Speaker 1:
I think everybody, not just men, I think women too I talk about that because it's what's most present for me but I think everybody, women today in the workforce are constantly being put down by the boys club. So you guys have to have a mask of whatever masculinity, if you will, just to survive it out in the workforce. And then when you come home, there must be something you know, you must've felt something similar when you were in the nursing industry.
Speaker 2:
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:
Then did not coming coming home and not having a place to be able to shut it down.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and oftentimes, like for me, I didn't want to talk it down. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and oftentimes, like for me, I didn't wanna talk about it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
That didn't mean that I didn't wanna be heard or seen.
Speaker 1:
That's the irony is that all we want to do is to be heard and to be seen, but we don't wanna talk about those things that will let us be heard and seen. We keep those to ourselves.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think I love this and even especially when I work with clients too and I hear them talk about how they're in an argument or they're misunderstood and all of that is sometimes is to just use the circling method as a practice on something that's not charged, right, because it's really hard to like, let's do deep listening on this thing that I'm really triggered about. So sometimes I'll have people practice with, like let's, let's just practice where you tell me about your trip to target. Okay, right, you were, you were going to look for something at target. You went in, you found a cart, blah, blah, blah, and it's like let's just practice deep listening, circling, um, with something that's not charged, you know. So that way you kind of get them to the habit of it, right, and there's nothing in you that's like trying to defend why I'm. When I'm describing my trip to target, it's like, okay, my goal is to just hear what you said.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and it's easier for the person listening. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
I mean they can kind of relax into. My only job right now is to listen and then to repeat back what I heard.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. It's so hard. That part right there sounds easy, but for myself it's the most challenging thing that I've ever done is to deep listening without already formulating what I want to say back to them. Yep, I have to do it in this podcast. While we're talking. I just want to be deep and present with what you're saying. But sometimes I'm looking at notes and I'm trying to look at times and doing, but the deep listening has to still be there and getting better and better at that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's why I say practice it with something not charged over and over, so you create kind of like a muscle memory in your mind and you start doing it more naturally.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
But it's really hard to do it on something that's really charged.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Until you've at least practiced it on something that's not.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and trying it every day, even at work. When somebody tells you if you're at work and somebody comes in and talks to you about the problem that they're having, I invite you to be curious and just try it with another person and watch their reaction.
Speaker 2:
Watch them open.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, watch them open, go. Wow, they listened to me, they heard me. It's just a different way to communicate and I notice it even when I use it with clients and customers in the pool industry. They're like oh they just, everybody wants that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, everybody wants that it creates a lot of space. It creates a lot of space. It creates a lot of room and what can happen in that space and that room are shifts. Yeah, you know shifts in communication, shifts in relationships.
Speaker 1:
But it takes time.
Speaker 2:
It takes time, it takes practice.
Speaker 1:
Takes dedication.
Speaker 2:
I like that. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1:
Oh, it was.
Speaker 2:
Did you get new shirts, by the way?
Speaker 1:
I have not. But what I've decided to do is I have a ton of those polo shirts that I no longer wear because they're not really a part of the style that I wear anymore. So I'm going to wear all of those until they're done, but right now I'm looking for something that will replace the uniform.
Speaker 2:
Please get new shirts. Oh, I am Trust me. All right, all right, that's been another episode of let that shift go podcast. I'm noelle and I'm lena. Let us know what your questions are and we'd love to use them on a future episode.
