Taking a Toxic Shift: Healing Toxic Relationships and Embracing Self-Worth

Have you ever felt trapped in the same toxic relationship patterns, unsure how to break free? Noelle and Lena start this week's episode with an honest and reflective exercise using Skin Deep cards, setting the stage for a raw discussion on toxic behaviors like gaslighting, emotional manipulation, and physical abuse. We share personal and generational stories to illustrate these destructive patterns, emphasizing the importance of acknowledgment and accountability as the first steps toward personal growth and healthier relationships.

As we navigate through the complexities of relationship dynamics, we focus on the role of childhood experiences and their lasting impact on adult behavior. With insights from the book "Attached" by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller, we dissect anxious and avoidant attachment styles, explaining how these contribute to recurring conflicts. We also tackle the challenging topic of setting boundaries, offering practical tips for breaking cycles of toxicity by actively listening and making conscious efforts to change harmful behaviors.

The journey towards healing and self-worth is a recurring theme in our conversation. We emphasize the importance of taking full responsibility for one's happiness and the power of vulnerability and honest communication in mending relationships. By reflecting on feelings of inadequacy and the pursuit of authenticity, we highlight the significance of small achievements in creating a sense of accomplishment. Ultimately, we challenge you to question the limiting beliefs that hold you back and embrace the idea of deserving happiness just as you are. Join us for a transformative discussion aimed at fostering growth, integrity, and self-acceptance.

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Transcript

Noel : 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Let that Shift Go podcast. I'm Noelle.

Lena: 0:10

And I'm

Noel : 0:11

And this is where we talk about the good, the bad and all the shift in between.

Lena: 0:17

We just talk mad shift.

Noel : 0:19

Let's get into it and on this week's episode smells like toxic shift.

Lena: 0:26

This shift smells toxic.

Noel : 0:28

Yeah, recognizing toxic patterns. But first let's get into these Skin Deep cards. Okay. And I will go first. Okay, in the game of life, what's your role?

Lena: 0:43

In the game of life, my role is. Well, the first thing I think about is my role as a person walking the planet, and I think that goes along with what I feel is most purposefully aligned is to one is to help people break their own patterns, you know, or to become aware of what they are and maybe choose a life or circumstances that are more aligned to them, whatever that is. So I think that's my role. Yeah, that's good. Okay, Mine you ready? Yeah, Talk like me.

Noel : 1:24

I don't know, I'm not sure. Talk like you. Hmm, I mean talking like you. There's a lot of knowledge that comes with it. I feel like I it has to do with a lot of growth, just like what you said you know, about being a role of like imparting some kind of knowledge.

Lena: 1:46

Okay, so do it, talk like me.

Noel : 1:51

Noelle, okay, You're not going to. I don't think you're going to like what I got to say, but I'm going to say it. I'm just going to say it.

Lena: 1:59

I'm just going to say it.

Noel : 2:01

I think you're afraid to do what you know you have to do.

Lena: 2:07

Okay, all right, I like that, I mean it's pretty basic yeah. I can go with that. I had, you know, my son-in-law told me recently, because we were doing the cards and the question was to do an impression. An impression of you, impression of me, and so he stood at the counter and he's like he's nodding his head and going, hmm, okay, interesting yeah. You know, you do say that that's a good impression of you.

Noel : 2:37

Interesting.

Lena: 2:38

Interesting. I wonder what that's about.

Noel : 2:40

Yeah, what is that about? That's usually where my brain goes. What made you think of that? What does that make you think of? Why do you?

Lena: 2:45

keep doing that.

Noel : 2:47

Yeah, see, this is what you do, yeah.

Lena: 2:50

It even goes back to nursing when somebody would say you know it hurts when I do this and I'd be like, well, stop doing that.

Noel : 2:56

Why do you do that?

Lena: 2:57

Stop doing, stop pressing on that, then it's too simple. Okay, yeah, I like this topic that we're coming up with Really. It's recognizing understanding toxic patterns, and one of the reasons why I felt like this was a good one was there was a post that I put up recently, and it was with a monk who was talking about holding on to anger and how that's really just it's not serving you. It's like holding a hot stone and then wondering why you're getting burned, kind of thing. And there was someone who responded to that and was like, well, what do you do when your partner, the person that you're with, just keeps hurting you and saying mean things or whatever? And are you supposed to just take it and just not say anything and all of that? And I thought, hmm, interesting.

Noel : 3:47

Well, it reminds me of that quote you said from somebody else who was like you have three ways of dealing with the energy of toxic, and I could either repeat it back to them or just take it, absorb it, absorb it.

Lena: 3:57

Or alchemize it, or alchemize it. Yeah, yeah, those all three are choices that we have at all times.

Noel : 4:03

But if you're not, if you're repeating the pattern and you're not taking that step to recognize that, you're just going to keep repeating the toxic pattern. Yeah. What's an example of? Like a toxic pattern, like a common one? That maybe some people can.

Lena: 4:17

Well, there are some patterns that can manifest which are like gaslighting, emotional manipulation, physical abuse even. Are like gaslighting, emotional manipulation, physical abuse even. And when I think of the physical, abuse, I think of our mom who was in a very physically abusive relationship, and especially physical abuse, just kind of follows a very similar pattern every time. It's like the blow up then this honeymoon phase of I'm sorry and everything's so wonderful, and then it slowly builds back up into another blow up, physical know, physical harm and then go over and over Without any growth.

Lena: 4:49

Without any growth, they're just kind of driving around this cul-de-sac over and over and over and that's, you know that's an extreme toxic pattern and that's when, you know, talking about when sorry is not enough, it's like, okay, I can say sorry, but then if it happens again, then you're not really sorry. You're just, you know, kind of a player in this play that we're doing, like, think about Shakespeare, talking about all the world is a play. And so all of these you know characters that are built into this play that we are in and the things that we choose in relationship or anything like that that we just keep repeating.

Lena: 5:28

And going back to the person who says I don't know why I keep ending up with the same type of person or I keep ending up in the same type of relationship and a lot of that is really just to me. It's taking a hundred percent responsibility for your participation in the pattern you know. And that's where I think recognizing toxic patterns is sometimes really difficult, because we can be become just really comfortable in them, like we, almost we know how to do it.

Noel : 5:52

Well, we almost get into these relationships unknowingly.

Lena: 5:56

Yeah, yeah.

Noel : 5:57

You know, because we're repeating a generational pattern of trying to find some.

Lena: 6:03

Yeah, and I think on some level the soul is always trying to work that out and so you know, oftentimes if you had a you know a childhood where there was a lot of physical abuse or addiction or something like that and you were the person always trying to save your parent or make things better, then it's kind of likely that even as an adult you'll choose a partner who will help you keep playing that out, with the intention of the soul wanting to really evolve out of that. But part of that is going to take some level of awareness and recognizing that you are actually in a toxic pattern.

Noel : 6:38

So what kind of things do we do? I mean, you're going to know you're in some sort of toxicity because it's painful.

Lena: 6:45

Yeah, are you really unhappy? And you keep coming back to the same story over and over, right? At what point do you take responsibility, like this person who's saying, well, what do you do when your partner is doing this and they just keep saying things that hurt you? It's like, okay, yes, but at some point you have to take responsibility for yourself and to say you know, enough is enough, right, and not just be trying to like make peace all the time and like step over the minefields.

Noel : 7:13

People please.

Lena: 7:14

Yeah, people please. And you know we talked about it before which was really choosing that familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven. You know it's like well, I don't know what would, what would I do without this?

Noel : 7:25

Yeah, I mean even in my own life. Just because of the toxicity in our own family I gravitated to somebody that was emotionally unavailable, because that's how mom was, and so that pattern I recognized later in life that I'm striving and I'm looking for somebody to fill this big void that I didn't have. But I didn't realize it was a pattern in myself until it was way too late.

Lena: 7:51

Yeah, how long did it take you to realize that was a pattern?

Noel : 7:55

Oh, until the last couple of years, until I started to become aware of these things, until my wife set a boundary and said this is a toxic relationship and enough is enough. And even at that point I still was like what are you talking about? You know?

Lena: 8:09

and I wasn't even aware of it.

Noel : 8:12

So, you know, becoming aware of it. I think you know from the other side if you're on the other side of the toxicity. I think there's toxicity on both sides and, like you said, the accountability is important because you know we got to be aware of ourselves and take accountability in the circumstances.

Lena: 8:28

Well, I think it's also not wanting to be a victim of the circumstance and when you're making someone else responsible for your happiness then, you have no power.

Noel : 8:40

Yeah.

Lena: 8:40

You know, so you can like. For this woman I would say, like you need to let someone know that they're hurting you right, or that their words are hurting you, or that whatever it is that is causing you pain in the relationship. You have an obligation to speak up and say this is not okay, because at least that calls the person forward into a place of like what do you mean? It's not okay. Then there's a possibility that it could change, right. Maybe they say like you, like I had no idea and I want to change it, or whatever. But giving them the opportunity and look at it like I'm giving you the opportunity to change this. But then at some point it becomes your responsibility to say enough is enough, I'm not going to participate anymore, because if I'm not a player in this relationship, I'm no longer available for your abuse.

Noel : 9:31

It's too uncomfortable to say the same.

Lena: 9:33

Yeah, it's too uncomfortable to say the same. So once you realize that it's like it is your responsibility to say something and to make changes, and if that person is repeatedly not doing something to change the situation, then it becomes back on you to do something to change that.

Noel : 9:51

Yeah, and that's going to force the growth, because if you don't stand on business, then kind of like what happened with me is there was an initial shift because it was like, hey, there's a toxic behavior here and I'm like, okay, what do I do? And I felt like I was going full tilt into it, recognizing what I was doing and trying to take accountability and all these things. However, I was still hurting people, but I wasn't aware of really how, because I was still validating or invalidating what people were saying, because I couldn't see it from their viewpoint.

Lena: 10:26

If that makes sense I wasn't able to see it. It's like you were trying to change it on a surface level but not really looking at yourself on a deeper level, on why is the behavior there in the first place?

Noel : 10:35

Yeah, well, I felt like I was looking at that. I was trying to figure out what was, what patterns as a kid made me become the way that I am and recognizing watching mom getting beat up and having an alcoholic parent and all these things definitely affected me and I recognized those things and took accountability. Okay, these things are reasons why I have become this angry person and being anxious and feeling like not enough, but doing that alone or is not an that doesn't solve it.

Noel : 11:09

Yeah, Because I was, still, I'm still working through all that stuff, but at the same time it's it's super hard to deal with all those things and still hold accountability to the people that are present in your life, and Because I'm still trying to make excuses for why I was the way that I was.

Lena: 11:28

Yeah, I think an excuses is really I don't know that excuses equal taking 100% responsibility.

Noel : 11:35

It doesn't and I didn't see. What I didn't realize is that as long as I'm still defending myself, I'm not taking accountability. Yeah. As long as I'm still defending what I'm doing, I'm still not listening active listening, actively listening to the person that I'm hurting.

Lena: 11:51

Yeah, it's almost like invalidating their experience, right? Because if you're like well, this is the reason I'm like this, the reason I'm angry is because I grew up in this situation where there was physical abuse or there was addiction any of those things it's like, okay, so what is the other person supposed to do with that? Just say, all right, well then, that's why you're an angry person. And then we just keep continuing this cycle.

Noel : 12:15

No, I think the way that we've had to do it between myself and Ellen is we'd had to develop tools in order to learn when those things are happening. I think I've told you the story about like working in the garage and we were cleaning up a bunch of stuff and there was a pile of things behind me and Ellen said, hey, is that the charger, the electric charger for Aiden's car? And I go no, it's. Clearly says Tesla on it, duh. And she was like that, right, there is what makes me feel bad, like you, make me feel like I'm stupid, and I went oh see, in my head I'm like duh. No, clearly it's this, but for some reason, I don't know why I have to say that part that makes another person feel bad. It's those little things. It's not the massive. You know alcoholic and beating up my wife, stuff like that that I dealt with that as a kid, but it's in smaller increments.

Noel : 13:01

It's in smaller increments, but because it's been accrued over decades, it really wears on a person's psyche, you know, being on the other side of it. So I was for a lot of years not really taking accountability for even those small ways, Because in a lot of ways I was like, listen, you got to get a little tougher. I can't be perfect, and that may be true, but that is not taking accountability for how I'm hurting the other person.

Noel : 13:26

And that's what I haven't stopped doing until that whole safe masculine energy was like oh you got to stop defending and just listen and see what you can do about that and I think that is the way to stop the toxicity. But that even that took me. It's a work in progress for me.

Lena: 13:45

Yeah, I mean the other thing that people talk about a lot too, like when you're talking about boundaries. So if this person who says you know, my partner is very you know, verbally abusive to me, what am I supposed to do? Just not say anything? And the answer is no right. Like we said, you need to say that this is not okay and give that person an opportunity to pull forward. But also, it's really looking at yourself. Why was it okay for you to be in this relationship for that long? Why did you think it was okay for someone to treat you that way and not speak up until it became too painful and right?

Lena: 14:21

Because both people in that relationship need to look at their own patterns. It's never just one person it really isn't because we have to take responsibility for having chosen to be in that relationship. There's also that person's their own journey of what are they trying to work out. Do I not feel like I'm worthy enough to say this is not okay for you to treat me this way and actually there's nothing in me that will stay in a situation like this. That is not meant for me. But I don't think that's on both sides. I don't think we come to that very easily and we end up in relationships with people who are at the same emotional level that we are, undoubtedly. Well then, when one person starts to grow and say this is no longer okay, well, now you're rocking the boat because this has been okay up until now.

Noel : 15:10

Yeah, what do you mean? You married me like this.

Lena: 15:12

Yeah, exactly, this is who I am. It's like okay, true, this is who you are. You need to look at why you are the way you are and I need to look at whether or not it's okay for me to stay in this situation. That is not healthy for me.

Noel : 15:26

Yeah, one of the books that I thought was helpful was Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller and it talked about the different attachment styles for relationships and it really talks about where I'm at is at the anxious side, and that's not the other one's opposite side, in the middle, is gonna be secure and on the opposite side of anxious is avoidant. And so that dynamic right there I really took some time to kind of figure out like who am I in the relationship dynamic, what's my role in the relationship and what's my partner's role, and how do those dynamics play a part in how we fight and how our conflicts come together? Play a part in how we fight and how our conflicts come together. And when I recognize anxious attachment style because I'm anxious when I get into conflict I feel the need to get close and be secure and feel safe and defend and defend my position right To be secure. And on the other side, ellen's side, whenever there's this conflict she feels the need to pull away.

Lena: 16:30

And avoid.

Noel : 16:30

And avoid. And that is the actual opposite, because when she pulls away, that makes me feel like I'm not more anxious and all that stuff and I want to be closer to her and that makes her feel overwhelmed and smothered. So we're triggering each other all the time and recognizing that alone was a huge, huge awakening for me, Just like wow, this is definitely the pattern that's been happening. We're going in that cul-de-sac round and around because we're setting each other off just by the way we respond to conflict.

Lena: 17:03

So how do you, as an anxious attachment person, an aware, anxious attachment person, who then is like this is a pattern for me, this is something I want to change, but you're in relationship with an avoidant, well there's nothing I could do about being in relationship with avoidant.

Noel : 17:19

The only thing that I could do is work on becoming secure. That's the game. That's the goal for me is to become a secure individual and not have all these unworthiness and not enoughness. Because if I do have that, it makes it easier for somebody who's avoidant to come to somebody who's secure. Because if I'm always insecure and anxious, I feel unsafe. It's not safe masculine energy. So that's why I've been working so hard to come back towards a more secure center safe masculine energy.

Noel : 17:48

So that's why I've been working so hard to come back towards a more secure center, and the way to do that is just to hold space and have grace in those conversations and be quicker to apologize and be accountable for what I've done or said and find a way to move through that.

Lena: 18:06

But how do you ask for what you need? And that be okay.

Noel : 18:15

Well, I think it's always okay to ask for what I need and know that because I'm enough, but I gotta really take stock of why I'm asking for whatever I need. And if it's something that I need to give to myself first. Yeah. Because, whatever you give, you're asking from your partner.

Lena: 18:33

You're trying to make them fix something.

Noel : 18:35

Yeah, because I have to look at is this a void? I'm trying to get them to fill.

Lena: 18:39

Yeah.

Noel : 18:40

And more times than not, it is. Yeah. It's something that I need to fill in myself, because that's why I'm insecure, that's why I'm not Well yeah, that goes back to we have to take a hundred percent responsibility for ourselves.

Lena: 18:57

And at some point, like this woman who is saying you know what do I do? I just don't say anything, and then I just have to put up with it and it's like, well, no you need to ask. But if that person you know, if her partner, is not willing to stop saying these mean things or stop doing the thing that is triggering her, then at some point she has to take responsibility for her part in participating in it.

Noel : 19:15

And set her own boundary.

Lena: 19:16

Yeah, set her own boundary. But when we talk about that, okay, so you set your own boundary right, like this woman sets her own boundary and says this is not okay for me, I do not want to be, you can't talk to me this way, make me feel small, whatever that is. But also kind of figuring out why did she think it was okay to be in that relationship in the first place? Because also, on the other side of that is a whole nother person who had a whole nother experience growing up in a family and maybe there was a lot of abandonment or not enoughness or whatever. And so in some way she's making herself right by staying in a relationship where she feels belittled or talked down to. So it's also Because it's familiar.

Lena: 19:56

It's familiar. Yeah, so in relationships, that's where we grow the most, if possible, because we get to see all of our triggers, we get to see all the places we're not free. And then there is this responsibility of like ah, I need to take responsibility for why I chose to be in this relationship. Why was that? Okay, it no longer is. So the boundary is don't talk to me that way. But then also it's at some point you take responsibility for your own happiness. Because if that, if her partner is like listen, I'll try to be nicer, but I'm going to constantly this is my pattern, I'm going to constantly talk to you this way or whatever Then at some point she has to make a decision.

Noel : 20:34

Yeah, there's not a willingness there.

Lena: 20:35

No, yeah, there has to be a willingness for growth and for change and for honesty and vulnerability. Which, man? That's hard for a lot of people, you know, to be able to be vulnerable, because one of the things that comes up when someone's going to be vulnerable is it's like, well, what if they don't? What if they don't do this, what if they don't change?

Lena: 20:54

It's like, yeah, that's scary because, then you're sort of forced to make a move, because if you're taking 100% responsibility for yourself and you're not waiting for that person to change or to do the right thing or whatever it is, then at some point it becomes your responsibility to make a move. You know to say I've called you forward, I've asked you to join me on this. You choose not to, that's okay. But I can no longer be, I can no longer do this this way, because sorry is not enough anymore.

Noel : 21:27

No, yeah.

Lena: 21:28

No, and that's the pattern of just keep going back into the old way of doing things over and over and over. You'll just drive around in that.

Noel : 21:36

Yeah, because an apology without action.

Lena: 21:39

Yeah.

Noel : 21:41

Is not really an apology, yeah.

Lena: 21:43

It's more about actions than words, and I think that's when you need to realize, like well, what is the first thing you find out? You're in a toxic pattern. What do you do? You name it, you say it, you recognize it, you become aware of it, you ask for what you need to break that pattern. And if it doesn't happen in relationship, it's up to you to break that pattern, because you are entirely up to you, entirely. It's not anyone else's responsibility to make us happy, but it is not easy. It's not easy to say, well, no longer be in that. That's not easy.

Noel : 22:22

Yeah, and being vulnerable enough to admit when you're wrong in the way that you hurt people. That's not easy either and that's part of that. That's the hardest thing for me Because my integrity so I feel like I have to have such good integrity, high integrity, that I don't see myself intentionally hurting anybody.

Lena: 22:42

So when, I do hurt somebody.

Noel : 22:43

It's hard for me.

Lena: 22:44

You have to feel it I have to feel that yeah.

Lena: 22:46

Yeah, and you have to be with that part of yourself and forgive yourself. Yeah, of yourself and forgive yourself. That's where a lot of compassion comes in and being able to be compassionate to yourself, but that we start to then trace back way back. Like, if you look back at even with mom being in an abusive relationship, right, nobody protecting her, nobody standing up for her. Thereby she didn't even have the capacity to do that for you because it was never modeled to her, you know. So you keep tracing that back. It will never really end. Yeah.

Lena: 23:20

And. But if we don't do that work, we just keep repeating these toxic patterns.

Noel : 23:26

Yeah, and then our kids see it.

Noel : 23:28

You know, because I felt so helpless watching my mom you know, and in the same ways I could say my kids, you know, because I felt so helpless watching my mom, you know. And in the same ways I could say my kids, you know, in a different way, but in the same way they're. They're seeing how their mom could be unhappy and their dad is the one that's hurting her, you know. And to me it's like oh, you know what? How do I explain to my kids, like, why did I hurt their mom? And for, for me, that's the, that's the hard part, that's where the guilt sits.

Lena: 23:51

Yeah, that's a place where a lot of people will go to numb themselves from that pain.

Noel : 23:57

Yeah, I did that for a lot of years, yeah.

Lena: 23:59

Just kind of avoid it. Do anything you can to not feel it, distract from it when everything is on the other side of being able to feel that.

Noel : 24:09

Well, for a lot of years I'm like what else do you want me to do? I'm going to therapy a couple hours a week, Every week. For the last four years I'm doing all kinds. Anything I can do, I am doing. What else do you want me to do? That's what I was saying to myself, but I wasn't really hearing what they were saying. What? My family was really saying because I wasn't ready to be vulnerable with the guilt part of it.

Lena: 24:33

Yeah, where are you at now, would you say.

Noel : 24:35

Now I mean, I'm feeling the guilt part and I'm just like, oh yeah, you know what. There's still places I can change. I think there's just last bits of me that I'm holding onto, of the not enoughness, and it comes out in ways like you know, trying to defend myself all the time.

Lena: 24:50

So what do you think the work is on this level of awareness and the work that you've done so far? Where do you think the work is to do that To be able to heal that part?

Noel : 25:04

I think it's just true 100% work on me, solely just feeling good about who I am, what I'm doing, solely just feeling good about who I am, what I'm doing, and I'm finding the best ways are finding small goals, because with me I have so many things on my plate, I feel overwhelmed a lot and so when I'm doing that, I'm just scattered all over the place and I'm not getting anything done and I feel like a procrastinator. You know, it makes me think of of like dad was procrastinated a lot and it was like man. I'm feeling that pattern, but for myself now, finding these small goals and cleaning up these small areas in my life financially, emotionally, just bringing things into alignment has been the best thing for me, not for my kids, not for my wife, just for me. Small goals, personal credit cards, personal goals that I need to do, just cleaning up.

Noel : 25:58

Just cleaning up, just not having a lot of clutter, because I feel like that's what adds to my overload is that I'm always on tilt because I've got too many things in the fire and I need to simplify that, get that down to just a few things in the fire and put very focused attention on a few things rather than spreading it too much.

Lena: 26:21

Yeah, okay.

Noel : 26:23

That's my goal now currently.

Lena: 26:25

What about healing the part of yourself that feels like the not enoughness? Feels like that the not enoughness, because it's not just the why was I so angry? Because I feel like you've worked through that layer of like why, and how do I change that and how do I forgive the people?

Noel : 26:46

I think part of it now is feeling like I don't deserve what I currently have.

Lena: 26:52

That's what you feel right now. I don't deserve what I currently have. That's what you feel right now. I don't deserve what I currently have.

Noel : 26:54

I think at a core. There's some of that Like I'm defending, because it's like, oh you know, just trying to defend that I deserve to be where I'm at.

Lena: 27:05

So if there's a part of you that feels like you don't deserve what you currently have, would there then be the possibility to sabotage anything more than that? Because if you don't feel like you deserve it, you really won't accept anything more for yourself.

Noel : 27:23

Well, I think, working on all these small little things, I think in the background it's like well, I asked myself, why do I have that feeling? Why do I feel like I'm not enough? It's because I go at the things that I asked myself. Well, if people see all these things on the surface, if they only knew all the mess I have and all the little things that I have underneath, then they would really know what the real Noel is. But if I clear those things, because I have all these little messes, I feel like cleaning up these messes and having a more aligned life and not being so messy and being more authentic would be. I would have more authentic days. Does that make sense?

Lena: 28:01

I wouldn't be trying to play all these roles you know? Here's the thing. Could that possibly be a lie? You tell to yourself that if I just get these things cleared up, then I will be deserving Sure yeah.

Noel : 28:19

I mean, a destination is a direction, not a destination. But as I've been knocking out these things, I've been feeling lighter and lighter, and that's why I feel so strongly about just like wow, you know these little goals that felt good. Boom, okay, let's knock this next one out. Boom, that feels good. Wow, you know these little goals that felt good, boom, okay, let's knock this next one out. Boom, that feels good. And the more I clean up these little goals, the more I feel better about all the little messes that I don't have. Does that make sense? I just it, just my life feels like a mess and it doesn't feel like what everybody thinks I have is really there.

Lena: 28:49

Is that true though? No, it's not true, it's not.

Noel : 28:52

But within myself.

Lena: 28:53

Yes, that's what yes.

Noel : 28:55

Just for myself, not what anybody else thinks Within myself. That's what I'm disappointed in. What I keep going back to is like gosh. What I'm asking is like, well, if they only knew. But if I just return that back to myself, if I know it all, so just, it's just me, it's just me in my head. So clear up those messes. If that's what you're really worried about, then clean those up and then see what's next. But right now, putting those all those things off, like I have been, and procrastinating on little things, what are you making yourself?

Lena: 29:26

right about in procrastinating or having procrastinated about them or having lots of messes.

Noel : 29:33

Just being valuable in a lot of different places and having my hand in a lot of different fires and being able to complete a bunch. I just feel like having my hands in a lot of things and being able to complete things Is it's overwhelming, but I like to do it because I like chaos management.

Lena: 29:48

Yeah, so there's some level in you that actually is comfortable in chaos.

Noel : 29:54

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I need to get out of chaos.

Lena: 29:56

Right.

Noel : 29:58

For me. I've created chaos in my life. That's what I recognize. It's like what part of me when you ask like, what is my accountability in conflict? I'm unable to handle myself in difficult situations because I'm always on tilt.

Lena: 30:15

Is that true?

Noel : 30:16

Yeah, I think so. I think when I get to difficult situations, if I'm revving and I have a lot of things on my plate and my head's overwhelmed, I'm less likely to handle that in a good way.

Lena: 30:26

So if I can make my life less chaotic all the time, like I have been doing, so you don't feel like you deserve complete happiness, chaotic all the time, mm-hmm, like I have been doing. So you don't feel like you deserve complete happiness because in your mind you perceive that you have a lot of messes to clean up. But when you have those all cleaned up, then you will have earned the happiness that that kind of person deserves.

Noel : 30:50

No, I don't see it as earning it that that person deserves. I just see it as cleaning up the stuff that I have, because that's what keeps me. That's the loop, the 80% of negativity. Looping is like you got this, you got this, you got all these things you gotta do, you gotta do, you gotta do. It's like you know what. Don't take on any more things and finish the things that you have and then, once you have that, stop worrying about missing out on fear, missing out on stuff, and focus really hard on the things that you want to really focus on.

Lena: 31:22

Yes, I can see that.

Noel : 31:24

Cause. Right now I focus on a lot of things and it's pretty messy.

Lena: 31:27

I can see that, but I think that if the belief is, I am overwhelmed and I have a lot of messy things to clean up and if people only knew how messy I am, they wouldn't think I was that great. That's what I feel like. I'm listening to you say yeah, and I would you know. The observation from the outside is that's not true, like you deserve complete happiness now. These little messes perceived quote, unquote messes are things that probably would clean themselves up through you when there is a deep belief that you deserve happiness right now. Right, there's nothing that you have to do to earn that, to be worthy of.

Noel : 32:13

Nightbird. You don't have to wait till things aren't hard to be happy.

Lena: 32:16

Yeah, yeah.

Noel : 32:18

Yeah.

Lena: 32:19

I think it's also like we. What is it that we get the love that we feel we deserve? And in listening to this right now, I don't know that you feel you deserve it yet.

Noel : 32:32

Maybe there's parts of that, but I mean, I'm pretty balanced and happy as I am now. I don't know that you feel you deserve it yet. Maybe there's parts of that. But I mean, I'm pretty balanced and happy as I am now. I'm just trying to dial that thing in. You know what I mean? I feel like I'm not in a depression.

Noel : 32:42

I don't feel like I'm failing at things no no, it just feels like there's some places where I can really shine or polish up and in this one particular area where I've been blind to kind of like how I affect people and kind of moving into a place where I want to be more of a safe masculine energy, I really feel like the requirement for that is to have less chaos in my life, because, remember, I was talking to you about how young people young kids, my whole life, my nieces and just young kids never really came up to me when they're babies. They didn't feel comfortable to come to me and I really felt it was because of my energy. I'm just loud, I'm just Uncle Noel.

Lena: 33:21

I don't know, because I'm going to tell you. As your sister, with daughters, all of my kids have gravitated towards you.

Noel : 33:29

But not when they were really really small, but as soon as they can talk, boom, they came to me. It's something about when kids are really young. They operate on creativity and imagination right, because they don't have all the ego and they don't have all the bad experiences, so they're just taking it for what you are and they don't have communication yet. They're really going off vibes and energy in a room and from a person and I really feel like when they're really young, they look at me and they see they don't see that I'm unsafe, they see that I don't feel safe. Does that make sense? That's really what I feel.

Lena: 34:04

I think they can see that you don't feel you're safe.

Noel : 34:08

That's exactly what I say. That's what I mean.

Lena: 34:09

So it's. That's what I'm saying. It's your belief about who you are and what you deserve. And if people only if they really knew you they would know that you're a complete mess and that you don't deserve all of this success and happiness. And if that is the program that's running underneath whatever you think you're right, and so it's really being able to create from a place of what if you are already fine? What if you are already perfect? What if you created from that place and that helped to clean up these little perceived messes? But would you then be okay with deserving it? I'm not sure.

Noel : 34:49

We'll have to see. That's what I'm working on not sure.

Lena: 34:56

We'll have to see. That's what I'm working on.

Noel : 34:57

Yeah, I think there's a little toxic cycle to break free from there it is. It's a cycle that I've been trying to break.

Lena: 35:02

Because if someone believes that they deserve it, they will not accept anything less. They just won't, they can't, it's not even attractive to them. It is not even interesting to entertain anything other than listen. I am worthy of this. I won't accept anything less.

Lena: 35:22

So you either meet me right here or there's nothing to talk about. You know and I mean anybody looking from the outside in yeah, I'm going to tell you, I think you're amazing. The outside in, yeah, I'm going to tell you, I think you're amazing, and you do have your flaws for sure, we all do. But it's more about what you believe about yourself is what's going to bring you what you feel you deserve. If you feel like you are a chaotic person, you have a lot of messes, you're going to stay a chaotic person who has a lot of messes, whether or not you clean up all your books and you clean up every single thing in your life. If, at the very core of you, you don't feel like you deserve it yet that's not going to change based on the outside circumstances. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.

Lena: 36:04

Now I should ask you to talk like me.

Noel : 36:07

Interesting.

Lena: 36:10

Yeah, okay, well, key points, yeah, okay, well. Key points are, I think, in this if anybody's listening is really wanting them to look at their own lives, like really step into the observer of your own life and see what are the patterns, what are the stories you keep telling yourself about who you are and what you deserve. Become aware of that, like sit down and write down all the lies you tell yourself about the world and about what you deserve and really start to examine whether or not those things are true, or do they come from deeper, old stories, old patterns, and do you actually want to do something different? What if you're already perfect? What would you deserve then? You know what if you're already perfect?

Noel : 36:53

What would you deserve, then? Perfect imperfections? Yeah Well, it sounds like I have homework and the rest of you guys have homework too, so let us know. All right. All right, that's been another episode of Let that Shift Go podcast. I'm Noel.

Lena: 37:19

And I'm Lena. Let us know what your questions are and we'd love to use them on a future episode. Or check us out on Insta at Let that Shift Go, or visit our website, serenitycovetomeculacom.