Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #43 Deion Sanders vs The Media, Kardashians, Kenya Barris, Rich Paul's Baggage and Managing Fear in Your Career
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Ever been so immersed in chaos and excitement of life that you forgot to take a moment to enjoy the journey? That’s exactly the premise we're exploring today. A visit to a speakeasy in New York and the anticipation of a live show have got me thinking about society, culture, and the changing seasons .
Enjoying the show? Email nothingbutanarchy13@gmail.com to RSVP to our launch party on September 28th!
0:08 Chaos and Excitement in Life
10:21 The Middle and Rejecting the Table
24:15 Deion Sanders and College Football Business
39:24 Sports Culture in Silver Spring
47:44 Rich Paul's Image and Imposter Syndrome
54:59 Kardashians and Pop Culture Critique
1:01:01 Impact of Violence and Internet Celebrities
1:06:29 Gen Z Quiz
1:12:25 Questions on Kenya Barris' Work
1:19:56 Managing Risk and Fear in Non-Traditional Careers
1:27:23 Overcoming Fear and Channeling Nervous Energy
1:36:59 Navigating External Expectations, Finding Personal Validation
1:43:30 Struggles With Sharing Personal Artistic Journey
1:49:35 Feedback and Building a Show Structure
2:01:24 Navigating Self-Realization and Potential Reactions
2:11:55 Starting a Podcast
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
Chaos and Excitement in Life
Speaker 1This is nothing but anarchy . This is the show that explores chaos around the world , around culture , around sports , around media and some other stuff . I think that'll do just nicely for an intro , alright , alright . So nothing but anarchy . This is the show that explores the chaos in our world . Gotta find a better description for what this show is , because it's a little more specific than that . But this is a show that describes , that explores chaos in our society , culture , sports , music , entertainment , hollywood , technology , business and so on .
Speaker 1It's like 90-something degrees outside of New York City right now . It's crazy . It's not supposed to be that hot , but you know the whole global warming thing , which is it is what it is . I'm so ready for fall to really be folly , but that's fine because it's coming . It's like next week I looked at the weather Next week the highs are like in the low 70s and high 60s or something like that , and I can't wait because I get to . Then I get to wear my fucking . I have all these like wide legged pants now because that's what's going on and I'm excited about wearing them .
Speaker 1I was watching Gilbert Arenas' podcast . I love how watching a podcast is just the existing lexicon now it's like people barely ever say I was listening to a podcast anymore . So what really are these ? They're just shows . They're just . They're really just shows . They're shows of all dimensions , but we have a lot to talk about because we had a long weekend .
Speaker 1I feel good today . I'm coming with , I'm coming with good energy today . I have , as you know , I've had some less good energy shows recently , but I'm feeling , I have good energy . I'm feeling I feel new in some ways , extremely new in some ways that I will explore more and describe throughout our current and future shows . I feel excited about life right this second . It's gets moment to moment y'all . So when you ask me how I'm doing , I'm going to tell you how I'm doing right at that second , because it changes so much . It's it's a changes frequently .
Speaker 1I was outside . I was in New York City . I was in the Lower East Side on Saturday night . I felt like I felt like a New Yorker . You know what I mean . It was like Lower East Side Saturday night . It's loud . I was in a speak , easy . It was like quiet but cool in there . They had good music playing . They had all this soul music playing and stuff .
Speaker 1The door had no , there was no markings on the door out front . There was no address on it , it was just like there's one lady standing out front . She's like . She's like , uh , normally you guys would have to wait for two hours to be on this list , but I'm tired of telling people that the wait is two hours and they cuss me out , so let me help you out . And then the lady's name .
Speaker 1I don't remember the lady's name , but what she looked like Shoshana from girls . She had like the Princess Leia , uh , hair bun things , and she was sort of you know how , like , um , people in New York , especially people who are from , like , manhattan , they are weirdly plain in the face but also sort of funky at the same time . Like Tim Timothy , timothy Shalameh , who we're going to talk about later . Um , they kind of all look like they smoke cigarettes , even if they don't . So I was outside , um , I'm playing basketball later today .
Speaker 1That makes me feel happy . I got my dog back from the dog sitter yesterday . That makes me feel happy . I sleep so much better when Penny's in the house than I do when she's not in the house . It's incredible , it's evolution . I read that , um , human beings and dogs have evolved such that the sound of a sleeping dog near you when you sleep makes you sleep better . It makes you get into your rim cycles faster . So this is my life right now . This is what going on . Um , I feel excited , man .
Speaker 1I just feel like we have our live show coming this month . I think , now that it's here , I can now that the month has come that the live show is in , I can start to actually visualize it . I'm going to talk to Tia , who's going to be our uh , dj slash co-promoter for the party . I'm going to talk to her about like the set and just I want to get a sense of how we can sequence the night so that whatever point in time I come on , the microphone doesn't take away from what's happening but but kind of helps like elevate it , and then that we can really enjoy the party . Because that's what I want more than anything else . I just want people to .
Speaker 1There are people who engage with me in a lot of ways on social media . They listen to my shows , they read the books , they watch shows that I have written on . That's a very loose level of engagement . But then I got friends at home who I think have been following very closely through the whole thing . I got friends in New York . I got people in New York where I never get to see because New York is a big city and everybody's busy and I'm going to try to see who can we get in a room that can have a good time , kind of get the feeling of , kind of get the feeling of the tone of this show . This show is , I think , one part very New York and another part very like underground modern media sort of , and I want to try to create that feeling in a room with some drinks and some music . So , live shows September 28th . You can find the link to RSVP to that show . You can either find it you will be able to find it as soon as this show is over at the link in my Instagram bio or right now . You can email nothingbutanarchy13 at gmailcom and we'll send you an invitation to the live show . Nothing but anarchy13 at gmailcom . Nothing but anarchy13 at gmailcom to get an invitation to the live show .
Speaker 1I was thinking about this . I am 35 years old . I have been in this sort of career , whatever this thing is , still figuring out what it is . To be honest with you , what do I know that ? I am for sure A writer , a podcaster . I guess some people at this point would call me some sort of a personality , if that's fair to say , but I'm still the identity that I have sort of the most static figuring out . Am I it or am I not it ? I definitely am it by definition .
Speaker 1But the answer is like screenwriter , and it's not because I don't know if I can do it , it's like whether or not I actually like it . It's whether or not I actually enjoy the exercise of screenwriting . Now , sometimes I have a vision for something and I got to get it off and screenwriting is the best way to do it . But do I like the process of taking someone else's vision , something that they see that means something to them , and spending 100 hours with it to write a screenplay about it and then living with it all the way into fruition ? I don't know . I like the thing that is high touch . I like the thing that is like me here write words , you read them and now we are connected . A screenplay is like the foundational level of a whole building . Right , it's a lot less of that direct , like main vein , like me to you type of situation .
Speaker 1So I say that to say I was thinking this morning . This was the analogy I came up with , right , because I was talking about time the other day and a part of why I was thinking about time today and I'm not going to stay on this long because I don't want to bum you all out . But I went on Instagram today to start promoting and I saw on the AUC cam shout out to the AUC cam , my boys , justice and Temmie they're more house dudes , few years younger than me popping excellent videographers . Temmie is like a personality weight bodybuilder type of guy , like he's very personable . Justice is my man Leon's brother , a very talented videographer and creative . Anyway , on the AUC cam they have an Instagram page and it was the first thing that popped up on my feed when I got on Instagram .
Speaker 1And , as I've said before , when I go to Instagram , 90% of the time I go to Instagram with my hand over the screen of my phone because I do not want to see whatever Instagram is trying to show me . That's going to fuck up my day and I just go to my DMs or I go to post or I go to my stories . But today I didn't have my hand over the screen , I don't know why . And I saw these two young guys Hugh Douglas , class of 25, . Christian Files Jr , class of 25 , said Morehouse College remembers these two guys passed away in a car accident . It looks like yesterday , which is terrible , and rest in peace to them and I can't imagine what their families and their friends and all their boys and ladies and everybody like in the AUC community . I'm sure people are very sad . It's very disheartening . It's terrible when you lose people , when you're young especially , but it's always terrible . So anyway , I repeated those guys but I started just thinking about life .
Speaker 1I started thinking about where I am right now because I've been feeling a little dizzy lately . I've been feeling like the Mr Krabs meme a little bit . You know what I'm saying Like with the woozy circles around and just like where am I ? What's going on the ground is shaking underneath me . But I guess something that is cool about when that happens is when the world is turning like a kaleidoscope around you , around me . I feel like in those moments , while everything else is swirling , I become clear , like I can see myself clearly . When everything else becomes opaque , does that make sense ? Like the contrast of my own outline juxtaposed against the world which is swirling , all crazy like the Mr Krabs outline . Suddenly I can see myself . I can feel myself more clearly .
The Middle and Rejecting the Table
Speaker 1I like to feel my feelings , even though sometimes I avoid my feelings with different ways that you can do . That I remember when I do feel my feelings . That's good for me . It helps me know where I'm at . It helps me know what I want . It helps me know what I need . Sometimes it just helps me feel grateful . Sometimes it helps me get creative when I have a feeling I can create out of that mode whatever All that woo-woo shit .
Speaker 1The point is I was looking at these young guys . Their life is over , they're young . They were probably 20 years old , something like that . They're class of 25 , so yeah , it's horrible . I was just with some guys over the weekend who went to my college . We were talking about Morehouse . We were talking about things that are cool about Morehouse , things that are wicked , things that suck , things that are fun things , whatever . We were talking about the whole range , the Morehouse dude as a persona we were talking about , and sort of this mentality of by any means necessary , even to at times immoral extents . We were talking about that kind of shit . But the point is I was spending time thinking about my college self and how real I thought my problems were and how real I thought my ambitions were and how real I thought my life and my love life and my wants and needs were as a 20-year-old . It's not to discredit them like they were For these guys . That's the end . That was the end of the chapter .
Speaker 1But in my life I'm 35 right now , which is to say when I was 20 , I was still squirtle . I was still the most baby version of my Pokemon avatar . Then I started thinking about , let's say , somebody like Stephen King who's 70 something , or I don't know , spike Lee , who's 65 or so , there abouts . Maybe that's the most evolved version of a person that's blast toys . You're young , you're squirtle , you're an adult , I'm sorry . You're a seasoned veteran adult in your 60s , 70s , whatever , 50s , maybe even your blast toys . That makes me what I am right now . This is where the revelation was . This was the epiphany . I couldn't remember the middle Pokemon's name between squirtle and blast toys . You got Charizard , charmander , charzard , and then I was able to eventually remember this dude's name , but the middle Pokemon . I couldn't remember his name . You have Bulbasaur . You have what's the big evolution of Bulbasaur ? Does anybody know ? Whatever the point is , I can visualize it , but I can't think of the name I think it's Venusaur .
Speaker 1I think Venusaur is the middle . But the point is and I don't want to think that because that ruins my theory this is the point . It's easy to visualize and conceptualize like the beginning of something , the end of something , like the first iteration , the last iteration . But the middle part like the middle part is , it can be lost in the story , like the middle part of I'm watching winning time right now , which , thank God , has improved in season two , and we are beyond the beginning where it's like , okay , magic Johnson gets drafted , here's Cream Abdul-Jabbar , here's Paul Westhead and Pat Riley and all these . It's introducing all these characters and Los Angeles is a character in Hollywood and the Celtics and Larry Bird . It's just like throwing shit at you . Right , that's the beginning .
Speaker 1Most shows don't get past the beginning . Season one . Most shows don't get past the pilot , but like now they do . But like most shows don't get past the beginning , because the beginning is like sizzling . It's easy to like craft a beginning . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1The end of the Magic Johnson story is still writing itself . Right , we are familiar with like season Magic Johnson . We're even familiar with like champion Magic Johnson , but the show is now giving us the middle portion . Right when things are . I've got to stop saying right . I hate that . It's giving us the middle portion where people are figuring out where they actually fit into this thing . Right , pat Riley is now being hired as the head coach . Magic Johnson is taking the wheel more as a leader on the team . Cream Abdul-Jabbar is becoming a more stern voice with the owner and with the coaches and whatnot . People are finding their roles in shit . Right , this is this is the middle . Like this is Charmeleon , like that's the part , god willing , of my story that I'm in right now .
Speaker 1Is the middle , the sexy part at the beginning , where it was like you know where it was . Wow , like you can write like , wow , like you know this person and that person . You sold this thing and you , it's like you burst onto the scene with this energy . You know what I mean as a woman who a Martha's Vineyard frequenter , who I know from college , said to me like I didn't know you were smart and I'm like , which I get frequently I didn't know you were smart , I didn't know you could do blah , blah , blah . I'm like that's because you're a fucking dumb ass . Like I see where the smart people are at . I'm sorry , do y'all feel like you know who the smart people are in your life . Absolutely Like what ? Like that's because you are fucking blind and stupid . But anyway , um , that part's , that part is over .
Speaker 1For me , the beginning , the middle , I think , is where I'm at right now . The middle and the middle . I see it can go a few different . It could have gone . It can go a few different ways . For me , one way that it could have gone is you . We accept you here . We , being Hollywood , we accept you . You may now come and sit at our table . You sit at the end and each year or each couple of years , you get to slide over one seat until we tell you stop , and then that's where it's over . Like you stay right there . You're at the middle seat , it's cool . You don't get to go all the way to the top , but you're not all the way at the bottom .
Speaker 1I reject that . I reject that fucking stupid ass table . Fuck . That table Didn't take , didn't take the offer , right ?
Speaker 1I probably , I will probably continue to reject that table every time . And I'm not saying that because it's not even what I want . I have just found it to be my nature . It's something that happens . I get invited to the table . I say fuck that table . I get invited to a cool dinner . I say fuck that dinner , I'm not going to that shit . I don't even know why I do that , because I'll go do something else . Like I will go to a speakeasy in the Lower East Side and stay out all night . That's , that's more fun to me . That's more . I got invited to go . Y'all gonna be mad at this , right , I got invited to go to the S and O after party to go hang out with Lauren Michaels and Idris Elba .
Speaker 1A few years ago , right , it's like it was like probably 12 30 am . I was outside . Like this is years ago . Right , this is before my relationship . I was outside , like I was in the streets and I was having a good night , like I was having a fun good night . I will not leave a fun good night to go chum it up with famous people Like I refuse to do it . I don't think it's the answer . I don't think it works .
Speaker 1I've been getting a lot of questions about networking in my as I've been opening up this dialogue with my followers on Instagram . I don't know why I'm yelling and my thought on networking is like be have a fun life , have an interesting life , do cool shit , do things that interest you , be curious , take adventure opportunities , create Notice that everything I'm saying has nothing to do with like other people . You know what I mean . To me , it's created energy . Create a flame that attracts other people to want to network with you , if that makes sense . That's my point of view on it . Maybe that's just my nature , maybe that's just what I want it to be , because that's that's more natural to me . But like it's not .
Speaker 1And no shade , because a Ronde who I love invited me to go to that thing and he was like when once he realized why I didn't go , which is because I was outside having a good night , I'm sure he was disappointed . I'm sure he was like what a missed opportunity . And I think he was like I understand this person . That's who he is , like he's not going to punt on a vibe , he's not going to leave something that is inspiring him , that's making him feel good , that's giving him the energy he needs for the rest of his week to come here and sit at the table and be who I want him to be for for richer or for poorer . And so I'm saying that to say the middle portion right now , as I'm watching it become more defined , is about me . I want those fucking people . I just want them out of the way .
Speaker 1Like I , to this point , have rented other people's platforms to reach you all the New York Times , hbo , julie , you know soon to be someone else whose name I can't mention Spike Lee , will Packer , morgan Freeman , issa I have rented those people's platforms and the rent that I pay is my creativity . My voice for some people , my image for some people , is keeping a stack , my race . I have rented their platforms to reach you all . This next phase for me is get all that shit out the way , and it's just going to be me and you . That's what I want for this next phase . I don't want to work my way up the cafeteria table . I want to fucking , but I'm going to sit at this table over here where there's nobody else at it except me and you , if you want to come here . That's why we're doing a live show . That's why you see me every single day .
Speaker 1Ask me a question on my Instagram , because I'm trying to get you used to my voice , not rap , shit voice , not Julie Bowens . Like kudos to them . They did this job already . They did this work already when we have we just hit . We're at a thousand plus downloads . Right , it took us five months to get to a thousand downloads . For , you're right , we took us four months to get to a thousand downloads . We're at something like what ? Like ? 1300 streams on what ? Spotify and 600 something on Apple . We're around , we get , we flip those , whatever the point is , we got a few thousand streams , downloads , whatever .
Speaker 1Okay , somewhere in my mind early on this process was if we can get to a thousand . I was always going to . You have probably seen me being more consistent with this than I have been with anything that I do to this point . Right , I don't know , I may have canceled one episode of this show to this point . That's because I can . I can feel you all here and y'all can feel me . But somewhere in my mind was if I can just get to a thousand downloads , I know that this shit can work Like , if I can just get to four digits , then I know , I know it's real . Right , most podcasts die after three episodes . That's a . That's some shit I learned on a podcasting blog .
Speaker 1Okay , most shows , they put out three episodes . People tell themselves I'm going to make three episodes and I'm going to see what it can do and they don't promote it . They don't feel good about it , they're shy about it , they're scared , they don't want people to hear their voice and they don't have nothing to say and it's dead . We're probably at what are we at ? 48 ? Something like that , 43 . But the download like you all shoot , you guys are voting by downloading , by listening , by streaming , like you all are voting , you're like yes , I'll have more of that , please . And that tells me we can keep making more of this so that , like on the other side of this , I hope to not have to be trapped as someone who has to keep renting other people's platforms to reach the people that I want to reach .
Speaker 1Because when you written other people's platforms , you don't get to change the structure of the house the way you want it . You don't get to make it how you like it . You don't own it , it's not yours . You don't get to put paintings where you like them . You don't get to put a fireplace . You don't get to put a fire a fucking fire pit in the backyard . You don't get to change the tubing . You don't get to invite who you want over when you want them over . You got to listen to the fucking landlord . I don't want any more landlords in this shit , so I would rather have 100,000 . People like y'all than to have 10 million people who are Allegiant to or who are fans of , or audience of , julie Bowen , issa Rae , morgan Freeman , Will Packer , spike Lee . That's it . Um , that's not it . There was something else I wanted to say . Yes , morgan .
Speaker 2Is it Venusaur ?
Speaker 1Thank you Morgan . Okay , morgan just came in from the top rope with a very , very what excellent energy on the mic , morgan . Oh , my God , morgan , were you looking it up the whole time ? No way , oh , you just thought of it . Okay , wow , thank you Morgan . All right , well , excellent comedic timing .
Deion Sanders and College Football Business
Speaker 1So do y'all get the point ? That's the point . That's why we're doing a live show and I want to tell you all we got I think we got 15,000 downloads on our first episode of quitters . So that's comparatively right . Is this small ? But what I'm trying to tell you all is those are Julie Bowen fans . Julie Bowen started building a fan base 25 years ago . It's not like you don't get to cheat the line . You know what I'm saying . That's what I'm trying to tell you is , um , those 15,000 people were waiting for Julie Bowen to say something that they could go listen to in a , in audio , on a podcast .
Speaker 1I'm talking about quitters . She started building that 25 years ago . Okay , I just started building , truly started building , like hi , I'm Chad , you know what I'm saying . Hi , like I just started doing that a few years ago and it's going to take time , but you all are some of you all are already here . You've already . You've been showing up coming out , so come out and hang out with us . Oh , so long .
Speaker 1All right , let's talk about Deion Sanders . Let's play music for two seconds while I drink coffee and then , um , let's talk about Deion Sanders . Ba ba ba , ba , ba , ba ba ba . Here we go , all right . Um , that's a good song , man Migos really just quavo and takeoff over the . Uh , so fresh and so clean beat , excellent , excellent . I wonder how much that cost sample .
Speaker 1So let's talk about Deion Sanders , all right , cause , that's what . That's what's leading every sports show . And we got to talk about sports . I watched Colorado , the University of Colorado , beat TCU on Saturday . Uh , deion Sanders , obviously prime time . My fake cousin Deion is the coach of the Colorado . Don't even know who they . What are they ? Buffaloes or something ? Colorado Buffaloes , bison buffaloes Um , this is the only thing to know . And that is not the only thing to know , but this is something to know if you don't follow college football very well . What college football is right now ? Okay , each team , much like NBA teams right now . Forget about history , forget about allegiances , whatever , like . These are just mercenary coaches bringing players that they can get to come wherever they go in the country . Lincoln Riley leaves University of Oklahoma . He takes the Heisman , the best quarterback in the country , caleb Williams , to USC with him . They do , now they do the Oklahoma thing at USC . Deion Sanders leaves uh , fuck , what was it ? Tennessee state .
Speaker 2Uh Jackson Jackson state .
Speaker 1I'm so sorry . Uh , big respect to Jackson state . He leaves Jackson state where he had built a program for a couple of years . Brings his son , shadr Sanders , who is a fantastic quarterback . Uh , brings their best player . What's the kid's name ? Damn it . Travis , look it up . Travis , travis , colorado Buffalo's , it'll come up fast . Whatever Travis Hunter , I believe his name . Yeah , brings him . He is an outstanding , uh , defensive back , cornerback and wide receiver . Brings them both over to the University of Colorado . Brings in 83 new players to Colorado . Ships out basically every kid that was playing at Colorado last year .
Speaker 1He's doing the exact same thing that all these other college coaches do , which is they get paid millions of dollars . The kids do not get paid by the university . They are salesmen who are just getting kids to follow them under the auspices of I will help you get to the NFL . Right , that's what it is . It's grotesque , it's nasty . That's what Deion Sanders is doing , just like the rest of them . Okay , do not let him fool you by talking about God . Do not let him fool you by talking about HBCUs . I'm not saying he is necessarily a bad person , even . I'm just saying don't be a fucking idiot and let Deion Sanders make you think that there's some grander purpose to what he is doing than building up the empire of Deion Sanders and the Sanderses ? Now , all that said , all that said , right , right , I hate that . Why am I doing that ? Pastors do that . I don't like that . Deion is a really fantastic coach , as far as I can tell recruiter , without a doubt that's not even questionable An entertainer he knows the moment . He knows what will get people going , what will get them to turn on their TV and keep on their TV and , frankly , as a player that was being one of the most excellent players of all time at his position cornerback as well as a two-way player , as well as a baseball player , and being theatrical Okay , there's something to be said about knowing when to turn on the theatrics .
Speaker 1I , of course , I have to make this about myself . I understand that skill on some level . I spend 85% of my time being a gecko , as someone called me . She's like you're like a lizard . You're just like you're just sitting there like a lizard in the sun , soaking in , observing , barely doing anything . And then the other 15% of the time if you all have ever had a lizard , you can probably relate to this Like you are fucking wildin' out Like it's like maybe there's a cricket in the cage and you're just like . You're just like . You're wildin' out right . 15% of the time you are super lit and 85% of the time you're just a lizard . Okay , but to me there is something important for an entertainer about knowing when it is time to go neon .
Speaker 1We have many colors and many hues as people . Right , we have many . We have different shades of ourselves . We have different wattages that we flow with . Some people are on a thousand watts all the time . I am at 20 watts until it's time and then I'm at 800 watts . Maybe I'm never at a thousand watts . Julie , I keep bringing up Julie Bowen today . I don't know why Julie is at a thousand watts all the time .
Speaker 1As far as I can tell , deion has figured out . His wattage is dialed in masterfully because he's not dancing on the sideline while being a coach . He's not chucking and jiving Like . That's something I will say about Deion . I think people remember Deion as a player and they try to overlay who Deion the adult is with who he was as a player . But he's somebody different . His son plays on his team . Put a camera and a microphone in front of his son and without doing any of that code switching or coon and chuck and jiving shit , his son can tell you exactly what he's trying to tell you in a way that you understand , which to me signals some level of good parenting by Deion Sanders . That's a compliment . I'm saying that Deion not only is able to communicate himself , but his son is able to communicate himself . Deion has a flair and a style about him . He dresses big , he dresses flashy , but in my opinion , as a 50-something-year-old man at this point , he's not gaudy . To me , he dresses like a tasteful Hollywood entity , which is basically what he is in my opinion . You know , in addition to being a coach . These are compliments .
Speaker 1I'm saying good things about Deion because I don't want you all to forget , deion is doing the same trading on teenagers that all these other coaches are doing . Don't lose sight of that . Right , keep it right there . I just don't need to talk it to death , because you already know that . You already know that , even if you want to believe , you have a different opinion than mine on that . Like I didn't even express an opinion , it's just that is the same job that all the other coaches are doing . So I'm talking about stuff I like , about what Deion is doing . I like that Deion .
Speaker 1This is something that I want to see more of and done in a way that is eloquent and precise and thoughtful . I want to see more black and , honestly , other colored just like non-white figures turn the camera around to the media . I want people to make it weird for them , the people who are standing with their phones out and their microphones and trying to get you to say some wild shit , or demeaning you or condescending you , who doubted you . I want to see more people . I would love to just see . If I ever get the chance , it'll be me , but I would love to see somebody doing a press conference in front of this extremely white male media room which they still are , even with some diversity scattered in All these cameras and lights and phones pointed at them . I just want to see somebody take out their own phone , turn on the camera and just give us , let us see , what it looks like to sit up there and be you under persecution by this room , right , right .
Speaker 1And Deion is so fantastic at keeping score because he's an athlete and he's petty of who said what about me and my program and my kids ? Who said we were going to suck . They won one game last year . They've already won . They're one and all right now . Okay , who said we were going to be asked ? Who said it wasn't going to translate ? Who said my kids , who came from Jackson State , weren't going to be able to play at this level ? Who said we were a second rate program ? Who said we were going to have the same season we had ?
Speaker 1He keeps tabs on that shit and I think it's necessary because this gets into a conversation about what the internet is right now , because of the fleeting nature of media , of how quickly you shoot some shit off and it goes through a couple of people's minds and then it goes into your little log and nobody ever goes back to look at it , unless you're , like , about to get canceled or fired . The opinion , the point of view , the take , it has no human weight behind it anymore . Nobody has to stand on it and he's holding these people journalists , by the way who are a self aggrandizing group , journalists . I'm not going to do a whole spiel here , but journalists talk about journalism and act like journalism , which is important , by the way . I mean , there are some journalists like don't get me wrong , there are journalists who are , as an example covering wars . Shout out to Robert Klimko from my high school , who was feet down in Ukraine for 30 days , or even maybe longer , with a newborn child at home . There are journalists who are going into like shout out to the journalists who cover shit , like George Floyd . Real atrocities , real moments where we need someone who can do their best to be objective and tell us what the fuck is going on . That type of journalism phenomenal Sports journalists y'all ain't bout shit .
Speaker 1Who cares ? Like your job is meaning . I want you to remember God probably gave you a gift of writing on some level and you used it for something useless because you didn't want to put your actual life behind . Using it for something meaningful Sports journalists who fucking cares ? Okay , we're all sports journalists now . Gil Arenas is a sports journalist , right , gil ? Right ? Gilberto Arenas can tell me something that happened in an actual locker room or an actual club or an actual practice that you cannot tell me .
Speaker 1You are marginalized and we don't care , and I want to see Dion Sanders continue to show what dickheads you all are right . Right , there's a reason . There is a reason , like you all think that the reason why you , specifically sports journalists right now are marginalized is because we're all idiots and we don't care about the truth or objectivity or whatever . No , it's that you can't actually give us the coverage that we care about in sports . You can't . You don't actually know the players , you don't actually know what , you don't actually understand the game on a level that is more sophisticated than us . As the fans at home watching , we can see more from our TV screens than you can see from the tenth row at the game . So , sports journalists I'm not talking about them .
Speaker 1Other journalists Shout out Klimko . Shout out Hassan Canu . Shout out Janelle from Blake High School and Spelman Shout out all of y'all . You guys do real work , you cover real shit . You're putting your bodies behind something that matters . Sports journalists you're useless , absolutely useless . The entire , all of you name one . That's why , stephen A Smith I know you go by . Oh , this is a good thing . We're going to get to this next .
Speaker 1Stephen A Smith , I know you like to lean on the fact that you were a sports journalist . That means something to your peer group , right ? Michael Wilbott , tony Kornheiser , dan Levitard that means something to your peer group , your peer group of old , rich people . We don't care , stephen A Smith , I do not care in the lea At this point you are purely an entertainer to me . I don't like you're not doing journalism .
Speaker 1You reported something about Lonzo Ball . That was not true . You do it all the time . I don't care that you wrote for the fucking Philadelphia Enquirer 30 years ago , like that's meaningless to me . So I just like seeing Coach Prime put these people on the spot . I hope he keeps doing it . I hope he continues to do it , even if they take some losses . All right , that was pretty good .
Speaker 1Um , I have a . I'm in good form today . I'm going to play some music and then we're going to come back . All right , we just had a brief team meeting about playing drops on the show . We're going to try to get some drops on here .
Speaker 1So Morgan said she wants to be able to press a button that makes a noise every time I'm yelling and I'm really yelling today . I'm really , I'm really turned up because I just feel like I feel like I've been out of sorts for a little while and it's like you know how , when you're sick and like on those first couple of days when you start to feel healthy again , it's like you feel over healthy , you feel like the healthiest I've ever been . Damn it . I'm a coming mountain Like that , like when I'm sad for a long time or like just going through some shit , when , in those little moments where you start to see like the sun peek out again , it just feels like you've never seen the sun before . That's how I feel right now . Damn it , all right , let's continue . Okay , we got a lot more shit to get to and I've been , um , I really filibustered at the top of this thing , but I thought it was , I thought it was pretty good . I think sometimes I go a little bit long because I'm just in the vibe . So , um , going to work on like where to clip , sometimes , like when I need to just like , all right , I'm going to get a little bit of a period on it , even though you're enjoying it . Just move on , all right . So Gil's Arena Um , I'm from Silver Spring , maryland .
Sports Culture in Silver Spring
Speaker 1That's a town . What would you call Silver Spring y'all ? Is it a city ? It's a town , city right outside of Washington DC . Uh , there are many I really mean this . There are many special people from where I'm from . I know everybody feels that way about their hometown . Actually , no , they don't , because I uh how should I say I've been making some new friends . Lately I have some new friends and , um , I've been learning that some of my new friends , who are from places that they do not find to be special , will tell you that it's like . It's like a thing people want to let you know early about if they come from a place they don't like , they're going to let you know that fast . I'm from a place where I think a lot of people are really special and smart Silver Spring , maryland . Um , and I asked Morgan over the weekend I was texting Morgan . I was like Morgan , do you know who Wale is , the rapper ? Did I say it like that ?
Speaker 2Yes , and I did know , and she did , morgan , congratulations .
Speaker 1Yes , you did know who Wale was . Um , she , yes , she absolutely did . But this is not about that . This is actually about Gil Arenas . So Gilbert Arenas was the star of the Washington Wizards for a few years . He originally was a second round pick out of Arizona , played two years there , shot the lights out in those two years , went on to be drafted by the Golden State Warriors and then , I believe , signed no , I don't think he was traded , I think he signed with the Wizards and then he signed a huge contract . Then he brought a gun in the locker room and you all know how the rest of the story played out .
Speaker 1But Gil Arenas is an interesting guy , one absolute cookbook . He was the he . In some ways he was ahead of his time as the tweener point guard who shot a lot of threes , looked for his shot early and often he was like a and I don't mean this in like terms of his level of greatness , I mean in his style of play . He was very much a combination of Steph and Curry and Dame Lillard . He was like right in between those two things in terms of the way he played . He was also bigger than both of them and the , the Gil Arenas Wizards era for my hometown . I'm going to be real with you all because I I mean because I can be , because I'm I I don't like my hometown sports like sports fucking sucks . Where I'm from , sports is like the high school . Sports is awesome Like we . You know cook shit . The pro sports teams are ass . The Redskins slash commanders have been asked my entire life . They have never been interesting or good , not one . They have not for one fucking second been interesting or good . They had a 10 and six season with RG three . They probably had two or three other playoff seasons in the last 20 years . They are terrible . They are fucking terrible and they make everybody sad . Who's from where I'm from . The Washington basketball team , completely uninteresting , had a couple years where they were kind of fun with John Wall and Brad Beall , but none of those guys were true superstars . None of them could lead them anywhere interesting in the playoffs and they have just been totally forgettable as a franchise . The Wizards , except for this little pocket of Gil Arenas .
Speaker 1And the Gil Arenas was this he would go on the floor . He would get 30 , 40 , sometimes 50 . Our floor , the other floor . He did this in Staples Center against Colby Bryant . He would hit a game winner . He would put his hands up before the ball went through the hoop and then he would go out . He would go to the club , he would go outside , he would put a chain on and he would be a man around town . He's from Los Angeles . Guys from LA like really guys from LA know how to have a good time . They know how to put some jewelry on . They know how to move , because they've been growing up around a town that knows how to go outside , and so he would do that . He made DC fun and interesting as a sports town and he continues to be interesting . He made $160 million in the NBA . He continues to be interesting because now he has a basketball podcast .
Speaker 1I'm going to keep it 1000 , 100 million percent . Most of these basketball podcasts are only good for clips . They are a bad , boring , useless listen if you try to watch or listen to the entire episode . And I'm going to get into why a little bit in a bit . But Gil Gil's setup is a large studio with a wide shot . They're sitting on nice couches with a . It looks very bachelor , patty , vagacy Like . The design of it is like a little bit gaudy or ugly , but it's Gil and Reena sitting next to this guy who looks like Peckas , and then to their right are Kenyan Martin and Rashad McCants . To their left are Brandon Jennings and the guest , and they each come with this .
Speaker 1I think that co-hosts in podcasting are Generally that there are diminishing returns every additional body that you add . I'm going to talk about that more . I've talked about it before , but in this show I find each one of those people sitting there with one exception which I'll get to to be additive to the show . Now , what Gil does on the show is he listens . First of all , he listens very well as a host .
Speaker 1Okay , a lot of hosts don't know how to get out of the way of the guest . It's difficult . It's hard to know when to give somebody space , when to jump in . Gil gives a lot of space to the guest . Kenyan Martin brings this sort of like grizzled OG tough guy perspective . Rashad McCants gives like big time college and high school recruit who didn't do his career right and flamed out perspective and he kind of does some weird stuff , like he wears a crown on the show , which I think is ridiculous . And then Brandon Jennings is like he's the youngest of this bunch , he's like 33 . He's like young , cool guy LA boys wearing super cool funky pants and chains and jewelry and his hands are all tattooed and he has the air of someone who's like man . I can still hoop , fuck this , even though he's out of the league .
Speaker 1So I watched a couple of episodes and one . One thing that I get from that show that I didn't even realize is part of why I like it is I don't feel lied to . When I watch that show I feel like every single person is representing their real point of view , their real opinion when they speak up and sometimes it gets hot , but in the , in the episodes I've seen , you can tell these guys still like each other and respect each other , which is it's . It's important , like I I've tried to say this like , at the end of the day , a podcast is just a hang . It's just that you're just hanging . You're just sitting around a table listening to a couple of people at that table talk , and so you don't want to sit with people who are treating each other badly all the time . That's why those shows don't . Those shows don't last . So anyway , pat Bev is in there , the first one .
Speaker 1I'm going to go quickly through the Pat Bev episode . I enjoyed it kind of but , like mostly what I saw was Pat Beverly is the hustle box player who's been able to carve out a career for himself by being a hustle box . That's annoying to people who are actually talented . A lot of the time it's annoying to me when someone who just hustles harder than everybody else in my industries makes it far Cause some part of you me believes like there should be some level of exclusivity around what we do . You shouldn't be able to do it and get far in it without some lowest bar of talent or vision or taste in this thing , and that actually is true . You can't . But like sometimes seeing someone who you don't want to believe has that thing get far can be annoying . And that's how they look at Pat Beverly , Even though Pat Beverly was like a 30 something point per game player in high school . These guys people I was just talking about this , about my own high school team , which probably was not even nearly as good as Pat Beverly's team , but like there was 15 of us and all 15 guys can hoop there's no , there's nobody , sorry on the team . That's fun , it's really fun when you have a team like that . Anyway , most of the Pat Bev episode is like you can feel this vibe of like Pat Bev is still trying to demand respect as someone who has been able to carve out this long of a career for himself . But all these other guys , even the ones who flamed out way faster than he did , they still won't completely give it to him and you can feel the chip that's on his shoulder about that and the chip that's on their shoulder about like you can't sit with us , which makes for a good episode
Rich Paul's Image and Imposter Syndrome
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1More importantly , rich Paul was on that show . Rich Paul , as y'all might know him , is LeBron James agent . He has built the most powerful agency in the NBA clutch sports . He recently negotiated contracts of over a billion dollars in the last couple of years and he is sorry , I didn't mean to chuckle , but I did so it's happened . He's Adele's other half , which is always looming every time I see him . The fact that , like , sometimes that's a thing , y'all , sometimes , when someone is in a relationship with someone else and it doesn't and it's not totally computing like that person , the other person can be present there . When I look at them or when I talk to them , it's like stuck there , I can't , I can't detach or whatever , but Rich Paul goes on the show . And Rich Paul I watched this interview with Tim and I wanted to watch it because I'm always trying to better understand . What is it about Rich Paul that makes all these players want to sign with him and that's not from the from the perspective of like they shouldn't . I imagine that there is something about him that they are attracted to and that he must be excellent at something he does . But what I can tell you is as a person I've met Rich Paul . Before I met Rich Paul , I was at lunch with Chris Spencer . We were about to go pitch something .
Speaker 1Rich Paul comes around the corner . He's got like three white guys , sort of halfway , trailing him and he's like kind of like dishing off info and orders to them . He is probably about my height , he's like maybe , maybe five , nine , and slender of build , childlike features . Kind of almost reminds me of like Kevin Hart in his own way , in the way that he talks , in the way that he's built , and he's not as swell as Kevin Hart , but just like the vibe , right , but a very kind of a very serious vibe . You know a lot of more house dudes like this . It's like they , they , they . There's like this , there's this posture of like I'm , I am dignified , like that kind of that kind of situation . And so when Rich Paul goes to do interviews , he holds that posture of like I am imparting knowledge on you people , I am telling you how the world works and maybe that works on college kids , maybe that works on high school kids , maybe that works on their parents , who have less information than him . I could see it working in some ways on Rashad McCants and Kenyan Martin in that interview .
Speaker 1But for someone who believes that they have been exposed to the world , that does understand how some things move , that does understand thought processes and business and relationships et cetera , come off as a real douchebag Like you . Can come off as a real condescending know-it-all who is preaching to people and not doing an interview , not listening , not asking anybody else a question , not being vulnerable , not saying you know . It's like . I feel this way sometimes when I see Jay-Z speak or when I see him rap . But I have I have much more steam for Jay-Z , so I allow it a little bit differently , but I , I , there's this tenor , there's this , this tone of like . I have already thought through every question you're going to ask me and I have a packaged spealed response ready for you with examples . And I am impenetrable and invulnerable and that's just it . So I don't even try it .
Speaker 1And where I think the show failed in that interview even though I enjoyed most of the interview was that somebody like that in an interview I think has to be challenged . It doesn't mean you have to lock horns with them , but I think you have to like , you have to be curious , you have to ask real questions to get underneath what it is that they're saying . What Rich Paul brings to every interview that I've seen with him is every interview I've seen with him . He gets in front of the narrative that LeBron James made him and I am certain that that is something that he wakes up and goes to bed with every single day . I imagine that when he is in LeBron James presence he is faced with that especially . But in his life I believe that he feels defined by LeBron James , by the opportunity LeBron James gave him , and he always gets in front of it and gives his spiel to say a lot of people get opportunities around athletes and I'm the one who executed and I'm the one who had a vision . I got off LeBron's payroll in , I think you said 2006 , three years after he was in the league , which is questionable as a factoid , because I imagine LeBron James still pays him a gigantic commission on his contract . But never mind that , like he always , I don't even think anybody asked him , he just jumps in front of it . And that got me to thinking two things , which is one we sometimes bring with us a lot of a narrative about ourselves that we actually could drop off if we would leave it the fuck alone .
Speaker 1I don't think anybody is still questioning if Rich Paul is savvy , special , smart , diligent , wise . You know what I mean . I think he's proven that he's built the biggest agency in the NBA , while white boys have tried to squash him out at every turn , while Phil Jackson has tried to call him entourage you know what I mean . And then , uh , caa tried to cut his knees out from under him because he left to go build his own thing . Right , he's done the thing . Now I'm talking to myself , but I'm pretending to talk to Rich Paul . Let it go Like . Let it go dog . Let it like the LeBron James thing . We don't define you by that anymore . I don't . I don't think , and anybody that does like they're projecting their own stuff onto you . They're saying I wish I had an opportunity like that . Or they're saying , if I had an opportunity like that , I'd be Rich Paul too , which is which is bullshit Like a lot of people probably had an opportunity like that , but you're the one that did the thing . You can let it . You can leave it like . You can leave it behind .
Speaker 1My version of that , um , my version of that Chad , you're not a real screenwriter . You don't like you . You only staffed on one show . You didn't go to film school . You don't , uh , you didn't get technical training in this thing , um , if you hadn't met Spike Lee , you never would have got this or whatever . Like blah , blah , blah . That's kind of a version of it .
Speaker 1Another version of it is like um , I don't know , I don't know another version of it , but you know what I'm talking about . Like you all know what I'm talking about where you carry something about yourself that is your imposter block , and it comes from a real place . Like somebody gave it to you . Somebody said these things to you or about you to make you feel that way at some point . But you've outgrown it and you can . You can drop it off if you so choose to , but like you just keep dragging that fucking thing into every room with you and it's like why you don't ? You don't have to . That's what I see when I see rich Paul and that's why I think he keeps that tone , that tone of like I'm up here , y'all can't touch me , because it's he doesn't want , like he doesn't want to accidentally bump back into the thing that hurts him so bad , which
Kardashians and Pop Culture Critique
Speaker 1is very human .
Speaker 1All right , music . And then more stuff , more stuff , more stuff , more stuff , music , music , music . Here we go . Yeah , I remember when that song came out they bleeped . That was crunchy grammar . We were just listening to . They bleeped out the word street sweeper and I was like why are they bleeping out street sweepers ? Is this ? I'm like this child living in the suburb . I'm like is this a ? Is this some sort of sexual term ? Street sweeper , like what's the connotation here ? I believe he was talking about an assault rifle , but an automatic gun that could like sweep up the street . Just learn that now .
Speaker 1Didn't know that . I was like what the fuck ? Why are they bleeping this shit out so weird ? The radio , the radio Morgan . Do you know what a radio is ?
Speaker 2Yes , Todd .
Speaker 1Okay , thank you . So , all right , we got a bunch of other things to talk about , but there's a couple of segments that I really want to get to , so I'm going to fly through some shit . Kylie Jenner and Timothy Chalamet spotted in first public outing at Beyonce's birthday concert . This is ridiculous . I asked for this , so I asked Morgan . I was like we need something more poppy to throw onto the docket today . Here's why this is important .
Speaker 1I was hanging with some friends over the weekend . I asked my friends as I want to do , I try to have a question . I just like things come to mind and I'm just like let's have a round table about this . The question was this you must choose three Kardashians and put them in order . Who you would date for one month , publicly . At the end of the month , you're set free , but you must choose and rank them . My order was this is going to be revealing . I'm going to give you my order . Also , I had a whole conversation about guys and their types and the idea of objective beauty , which is ridiculous , and group think around , how people think about who looks good and who doesn't , and just all this bullshit . But anyway , my three were in order . All right , y'all ready , you guys ready . Are you nervous ? I'm intrigued . You're what You're more intrigued ? Okay , number one Kim Kardashian . Number two Kendall Jenner . Number three Kourtney Kardashian . Okay , so I've given three and we need another bell for name drops and stuff .
Speaker 1But an important piece of information here is that I have met Kim Kardashian . I've been in Kim Kardashian's house . I've sat at her kitchen table . I believe that I have given her a hug . I know what she looks like in person . Y'all are going to be mad at this . She looks fantastic . She looks absolutely phenomenal . It's quite jarring , not that I imagine . Actually , I've seen Kendall in public . I didn't meet her , but I was at Governor's Ball a couple of years ago and Kendall Jenner and Kyrie Irving come back into the VIP , like for two seconds , like , and walk out . You know , I think like as friends , as homies . I don't know what the fuck do I know , but anyway . So I'm not about to sit here and go through like why , why , why they are ranked that way .
Speaker 1But the point is I was thinking about the Kardashians , and this is where I'm actually at with the Kardashians , because I do think we've entered some layer of group think with the Kardashians . Oh , all I want to say is that I always liked Timothy Chalamet , and now that I know that he is in a relationship with Kylie Jenner , I know why because he's black . So this is what I want to say about the Kardashians Is it Okay ? No , not , is it ? I'm not going to ask it as a question , I'm not going to say it passively . I think we're . I think we're reaching a little bit when we're so mad at the Kardashians . Okay , I think we're .
Speaker 1I think like to call the thing that they are doing , which is building their media empire by continuing to stoke the flame of their own celebrity , by sort of renting the fame and juice of , in many cases , black athletes . I think we have overstated the damage or like the problematic nature of what they are doing , in a way that I've had so many conversations about the Kardashians and I still don't really get it . What y'all are like , what y'all are so mad about , like , because I still I mean , as is evident by behavior I still think most people going into that circumstance , knowing what's at risk , would choose the risk , like they would choose knowingly to do the thing , and I just I'm missing it more . This is maybe this is more a question than like a pontification . It's just like I just want to get it a little bit better . Like why what they're doing is so bad . I don't , I don't get it . Like is what is the part that is morally reprehensible ? What's the part that is like you can't stand on that ? What's the part that's a lie , like what's the part that's a misdirection ? Like what are they doing that is doing such a damage to themselves or others that I am not seeing ? Or that is like that surpasses just the general status quo of clout , like clout exchanging and clout trading or whatever the thing that everybody's doing . You know what I mean . Like what , what ? What are they doing beyond that ?
Impact of Violence and Internet Celebrities
Speaker 1My sister this morning told me about the woman who was hit by a brick in Houston and I don't really have anything sophisticated to say about a woman being hit by a man who tried to get her number with a brick , like that . I think there's some very obvious layers of that right which is like patriarchy is such that men feel so entitled to a woman's whatever that they will be violent to them if they are in some instances that a man will be violent to a woman if he is denied whatever it is that he's asking for her . That's bad . I got nothing to sophisticated to say about that . I also have nothing sophisticated to say about like internet . The kids talking about you know well she was a feminist and this is what happens when you don't have a man on your arm and a man can't protect you . And I don't even like when that conversation enters our show , so I'm going to like keep all that shit over there .
Speaker 1Here's my thing that I wanted to say about that Culture . Our culture is such that someone falls victim to violence , turns a camera on themselves and tells the world about what happened to them . And I and I question this , even without an opinion on whether or not that's cool to make a tick talk about something violent that just happened to you . Like cool , but like my cool , I mean like okay , like I don't . I don't have a moral judgment on that . This is what I do wonder .
Speaker 1Is it disruptive to like the natural process of healing , emotionally and physically , from what has happened to you ? And why I ask that is because I know what it feels like to have a little moment on the internet . It feels crazy , it feels volatile , it feels like your , your . Your chemistry , the body chemistry , is different in that you feel , it feels like you're attached to some sort of main vein of adrenaline and dopamine and fear and anxiety , and I I only have to imagine that like that , the human body is not adapted to having all that stuff rush in in the middle of a healing process . And so I bring that back to Kim Kardashian and the rest of the folks , because maybe that is the thing that they have done that is harmful , which is to be the iconic faces of turn that camera on anytime you get a chance to , and it will do good things for you .
Speaker 1Because in most instances listen to me , I'm telling y'all something it doesn't work for most people . Most people are not as interesting , beautiful , smart , sophisticated in the in the form of creating media . I know people think this is a , like a monkey can do it Right . I know people think it's just . You know anybody can be Bobby Alltoff . I know y'all think that's what it is , because that makes you feel better , because y'all be trying hard , because y'all be trying hard and it don't be working . Y'all turn that camera on all the time . Y'all talk to that camera all the fucking time . You take pictures of your families . We don't care . So y'all think , and so it's easier for y'all to say well , anybody can do it . If you just do it enough , you guys do it plenty and it's not working . So what's so something ? There must be some .
Speaker 1I called . I called this particular sort of person like the Bobby Alltoffs , the Kardashians , the other influencers , wall , my boy Quincy whatever . I called Quincy as many things , but one of those things is he's a sophisticated user of the internet , like I called all of that bracket of people which I sort of think I am straddling at this point . I called those people savvy to a friend of mine who is like a business person and he sort of balked at the idea of those people being savvy and to me I let . I didn't go , I didn't argue the point , but it was a signal to me that like , ah , he doesn't actually understand how much strategy , how much perception , problem solving goes into the job that is being an internet celebrity , like I'm keep trying to tell y'all . Those people have bigger ratings than ESPN . Those people have bigger ratings than Disney properties . Those people have more marketing power and better advertising power than anybody right , a one minute spot on a Kardashian reel or something like that is probably comparable to an advertising spot during the NBA finals .
Speaker 1It's like that y'all . It's like that y'all . And that is like stop trying to like , stop trying to put them beneath you , stop . Now I'm on something else , but it's just like stop , if you can do the thing , you would do the thing You're trying . You're already trying . When you take pictures of your friends at a barbecue , you're trying to do the same thing . Don't act like it's a photo album . It's not wholesome . You're not doing it just to be cute . You are quote unquote trying to build your brand for whatever your purpose is . Admit that it's difficult . These people are smart and let them have sex with black athletes .
Speaker 1No , morgan says no . Okay , I'm sorry , minus the last part , minus the last part , minus the last part , but I mean there's nothing you can do to stop it . So allow it , bro . It's going to happen regardless . All right , more music . And then I'm coming right back . Okay , that song is called 90210 . It's kind of a bummer , so you all listen to it on your own , but it's a good Wale song
Gen Z Quiz
Speaker 1. Yes , my Timothy Shalame thing about being black . It was a joke , it was . It was to say that he's out with Kylie Jenner and therefore he must be black , but it didn't work , didn't land because I had to explain it . So , all right , here's what we're going to do next . It's a game I made up . Kylie in the studio knows that I'm about to do it , but , morgan , is your microphone on ?
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1Are you nervous ? Move a little closer to it .
Speaker 2Why .
Speaker 1You said why ? Cause you're about to be talking . All right , morgan , this game . It needs a better name . But this game is called Gen Z quiz and it came up because I asked Morgan if she knew what a TI 83 was , or I just assumed that she didn't and I was right . But then she actually has used the TI 83 , but she didn't know what one was .
Speaker 2Right , I didn't know the best of it was called , but it's been a long time since I used it .
Speaker 1Okay , well , let's , let's try some other stuff . Let's see what else you know . Okay , question one . If you perform well on this quiz , by the way , you will get a prize . Morgan , are you ready ?
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1I'm going to ask you about some things that millennials know .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1I bet you don't know . Okay , I'm going to read you five names . I want you to choose which two of these names were the names of actual characters on Saved by the Bell .
Speaker 2I hate this Okay .
Speaker 1If you get one right , then you get a point for this one . Okay , here are the names Margo Skeeter , screech , Tommy Zach . Would you like to hear them again ? I ?
Speaker 2didn't know Um Tommy .
Speaker 1That's one , and which which was it ? Which would be the other ?
Speaker 2Uh Screech .
Speaker 1Okay , all right , you got one right . I did watch Saved by the Bell . Well , you only got one right . Screech was indeed a character on Saved by the Bell . Ding ding , ding , ding . Okay , One point , All right . Next , you only get to choose one of these options . What race was Topanga in the show Boy Meets World ? Okay , what race was Topanga in the in the show Boy Meets World , Option number one , black Option number two . White Option number three . Asian Option number four , Indian Option number five Topanga . Which race was she ? This ?
Speaker 2is like trick question what I'm going to go with Asian .
Speaker 1The correct answer was Topanga .
Speaker 2I knew Okay .
Speaker 1I'm dead .
Speaker 2All right .
Speaker 1Question number three what does AOL stand for ?
Speaker 2Oh , come on . Nobody knows what it stands for .
Speaker 1Do you know what AOL stands for ?
Speaker 2Don't say it . Don't say it , okay , okay .
Speaker 1Can I give you options ?
Speaker 2Oh , yes , I know .
Speaker 1But what you said was already plenty . Number one America online . Number two app origin location . Number three available organizational limits . Number four American operating list .
Speaker 2I'm going to go with American online Ding , ding , ding ding ding , ding , ding .
Speaker 1Okay , great job , morgan , but I don't know if you deserve a point after what you said at the beginning . But that's fine , okay . So , morgan , what was AOL ? Aim ? Number one the first email service that allowed you to CC multiple addresses . Number two a video downloading service like Napster or LimeWire . Number three an instant messaging service like GChat or iChat . Number four an online telescoping software .
Speaker 2Okay , some of those are insulting the instant messaging .
Speaker 1Ding , ding , ding . Okay , great job , morgan , you're doing excellent . You're just like a millennial . All right , what was Oregon Trail ? Do you know the answer ?
Speaker 2Is it a game ?
Speaker 1Number one a breakfast bar with nuts and berries served in public school cafeterias in the early 2000s . Number two the finals run made by the Portland Trailblazers in the early 2000s . Number three a campaign in the Northwest that swung the election in 2004 . Or number four a computer game in the early 2000s .
Speaker 2It's a computer game , Wow .
Speaker 1Morgan , Ding ding , ding , ding , ding ding . Okay , Last one what might someone do to a faltering video game cartridge to fix it ? That is an open-ended question .
Speaker 2What are these questions ?
Speaker 1These are questions that all millennials know .
Speaker 2The answer to .
Speaker 1What might someone do to fix a faltering video game cartridge ?
Speaker 2Like blow in it .
Speaker 1Yeah , morgan , great job . Oh my God , I underestimated you , morgan .
Speaker 2I'm so sorry . Yeah , thank you , I remember . Now it was put some respect on my name , a perfect ending .
Speaker 1Okay , I'll be right , wait a second , who said put some respect on my name ? No , that's not it . Who said put some respect on my ?
Speaker 2name . No , that's the thing . That's a bonus question . Who said that ? No , it was the thing . I didn't know .
Speaker 1I know .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't remember . Wait , I don't remember .
Speaker 1Who said ?
Speaker 2it A rapper .
Speaker 1Which one ?
Speaker 2Jay-Z .
Speaker 1Perfect . The answer is Birdman . A perfect ending . Okay , thank you , morgan . All right , we're going to play some music . We'll come back and finish up . Okay , here's what we're going to do . We've come to the to the last bit of this thing
Questions on Kenya Barris' Work
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1Now I got a couple questions on Instagram . I put a post up that was like asked me something to talk about on Anarchy , so I'm gonna pull those up , alright . So one person asks this is an interesting question . It's a very specific question . If you were in the Black AF episode where Kenya video called people in to discuss his projects , what would you say ? So it's a question about Kenya Barris , basically , who my first time in a writer's room was writing on Kenya Barris' show Gronish . He was in the room for much of the time that I was there writing for that show for a week . He is a very LA black man . He is also tatted up on his fingers , on his body . He had a parking space right outside of the building with , I think it had his name on it , which is pretty cool outside the studio building , and he had a very nice Tesla parked out there before everybody had Teslas . This was 2017 , I believe I would say this about Kenya Barris stuff .
Speaker 1So one . I am not a major consumer of Kenya Barris' work . Kenya Barris' work , in a way that has been very lucrative for him , I believe is marketed to a more mainstream audience than the kind of stuff that I like . Okay , I've seen one episode of Gronish . It is the episode that I wrote . I have seen Girls Trip , which I thought was funny . I did not find the stomach to watch the movie with Lauren London and what's that guy's name , adam ?
Speaker 2Tim Jonah .
Speaker 1Hill . Yes , what did you call him ?
Speaker 2I said Adam Tim .
Speaker 1I would say what would I say to Kenya ? I would say I would be like oh , kenya , you are also . I've had some other moments where I semi-worked with Kenya , not directly . I know some people who are close to him . I know that people , as it goes in this industry , a lot of people have a lot of criticisms of him and some of those criticisms include that he I guess , as Charlemagne put it , that he panders to white people in his art and that is a very hurtful thing to say to somebody .
Speaker 1I don't necessarily know that that's what he's doing in his work . I can't say that . I can tell that there is a high level of studio network mainstream sheen on his sheen , like S-H-E-E-N on his work . That can cause you to have a very fraught experience if you try to fight it when you're making something . It can either cause you to be tormented all the time or it can cause you to not get your shit off the ground . If you try to fight against a powerful studio and all of its layers of executives who are trying to wash clean your art so that other people will find it palatable , am I , is that ? Am I being clear , or should I say it more clearly ?
Speaker 2No , it's clear to me .
Speaker 1Okay . So what I'm saying is I think Kenya there , if y'all ever heard I'm sure he didn't make this up , but Nipsey Hussle said I was at , I was at the Blue Note with . This is Namejoppy . So at the Blue Note with Dave Chappelle , tiffany Haddish , common , Most Deaf my friend Chris Spencer , robert Glasper was performing . I think he was kind of like the resident performer there and he , at the beginning of his set he played this Nipsey Hussle clip where Nipsey Hussle says all this cool gangster shit that I don't even know . We remember what he was saying , but he was very LA and it was really cool .
Speaker 1At the end he says would you rather be at now ? I'm gonna fuck it up . He says would you rather be at war with yourself and at peace with the world , or at peace with yourself and at war with the world ? Right , I think that Kenya Barris has chosen the option to be at peace with the world and which is to say by the , by the Nipsey Hussle theorem , that that means that he is in some way at war with himself , and that is not admirable to me . The money is admirable , the platform is admirable , the awards are admirable . That's all the stuff that you get when you're at peace with the world , you get that shit . That's what the world offers you to acquiesce , that's what the world offers you to go this way and I'll give you all this shit Money , power , quote-unquote sex trips , relationships with fancy white people , invitations , awards that's all the shit that the world will give back to you if you take that trade . And , in my opinion , none of that can feel better than being at peace with yourself . Nothing feels better than being at peace with yourself . I'm trying to think of something that feels better than being at peace with . Other things can be more stimulating . Other things can be more exciting . Other things can be , can , can serve that little hole in you that wants to like , get one over and show everybody how fire you are and squash the people that talk shit .
Speaker 1I'm sure Kenya Barris has some people from his past who he's like look , fuck y'all . I told y'all I'm Kenya Barris now . But like , none of that feels better than being at peace with yourself . And , on top of that , nobody else really can know if you're at peace with yourself , because the signals of a person at peace with themselves are very hard to read . It's , it's individual . Like my dad used to tell me , your relationship with God is only your business . That is an individual relationship . Your relationship with yourself , that is your business . Nobody else can . Nobody else can weigh it . So maybe he's not at war with himself , I don't know .
Speaker 1But if I had a phone call with Kenya Barris , I would want to know all this shit , like all this shit , all this Disney behind you . You got a piece of a studio at BET , you got , you got plaques on top of plaques and trophies for black-ish and you get to walk into a room and have the the , the big swinging Barris and all that shit . Like if you had to trade on some level the authenticity and the reality of your art to get it . And if that fucks with you , if that twists , if that twists in your soul when you wake up in the morning , I would want to know , like , is it worth it ? Cause maybe you could tell me that it is , maybe you can , maybe there's enough shit that you can numb that feeling with that it is worth it . I don't really believe that . So that's what I would say
Managing Risk and Fear in Non-Traditional Careers
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 1Next question how do you deal with people you really care about who don't believe in what you're trying to do and who don't understand leaving a stable career for an unstable one . That is a good question . I will say this much . One is it is a . It is a continuous and ongoing act of discipline to not give in to the fear and anxiety that other people project on me because my life is risky . I'll say it differently Um , I , I'm still learning every day how to deal with the fact that every time I double down on the risk of this career or go deeper into the risk of this career , I'm still learning how to deal with the fact that that , especially every year as I get older and other people have mortgages and kids and careers and things that they're scared to lose . I have to become more disciplined in my understanding that 90% of the time when they're telling me or showing me fear for me , that's their shit . Does that make sense ? Yeah , that's their fear . Like fear that I'm going to fuck up things I don't even have , like you know what I mean . Fear that I'm going to not be able to pay more of my mortgage I don't have a mortgage . Fear that I'm not going to be able to go get a job because I don't have any LinkedIn titles . I don't want a job . I hope to never have to have such a job . You know what I mean Like . So what I'm saying is , first , the first answer to this question is , like it takes a certain amount of discipline that I again I struggle with it from time to time .
Speaker 1In moments of insecurity , it's very easy to let other people's fear in . It's very easy to let other people's anxiety like attack me and wake up and go to bed with their shit , when in fact I'm like I've been reminded of this multiple times . It's like what is that ? Like what's at risk ? It's like if I were supposed to go and do the thing I'm supposed to do , I would be doing this . That's I really truly , like 100% believe that . So what ? What should I ? What's the opportunity cost if I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing ? Does that make sense ? Josh , you're going to say something , no 100% .
Speaker 2I mean to me , I'm just like nothing good in life happens without risking something Like , just in my opinion , I mean everything . All three of us are doing something that I believe that most people would consider to be risky fields to be in . You know if we're just being real about it . But at the end of the day , I mean , like you know , I almost look at it as , like you know , I don't know if it's Warren Buffett , but one of these like stock market guys are saying , like you know , when people what's called , when people are fearful , you get , you should be greedy . So like I kind of feel that's a really good analogy with not just you know it comes to investments , but same thing with investing in whatever it is that you want to do , you know 100% agree .
Speaker 1I love that quote also , and it is . It is a Warren Buffett quote , or maybe his partner what's his name ? Holder , tommy , something whatever doesn't matter Agreed right In this . In this moment , people are scared . Right now , this is a very fearful moment in this industry .
Speaker 1Right , everybody thinks that the sky is falling . People are wondering if they're ever going to get to work again , how they're going to pay the bills , etc . As they should be . You know what I'm saying . People are out of work , but all I'm saying is I've been out of work . Like all I'm saying is I've been out of work , like why should I absorb y'all's fear ? It's like damn , the sky's falling about the , about the industry , and like y'all pick it in and all that stuff . Like listen , somebody's going to hear this and be like Chad is an absolute fuck nigga for saying these things that he's saying . But it's like y'all , let me know how it goes , hold it down , y'all , hold it down . Let me know when it's over , because I'll be ready to work .
Speaker 1Like I got a . I got a . I live in New York City , man , I don't live in Los Angeles . Okay , I don't work at 30 Rock . I don't get my . My checks don't come from Seth Meyers . My checks don't come from fucking Jimmy Kimmel .
Speaker 1I listen to that week as podcast . I don't give a fuck what those five dudes go do to go try to pay their staff . I don't give a damn Y'all . Like y'all weren't paying my bills before . Like y'all niggas weren't cutting me any checks . Like I don't give a fuck about this stupid ass podcast . Like that shit was terrible . It was like a very , very , very poor man's version of smart list . Shout out to smart list , which is fire , which is a very high quality podcast . That shit was useless . Terrible , Terrible , terrible . And it's like hey , man , great , okay . Um , they're going to keep cutting all checks , congratulations . Nobody writes . Like nobody gives me money , who doesn't have ? To ? Like that is how my life is set up . I do not get any free money . Nobody's thinking about oh man , does Chad need some money right now ? Like , nigga , I could have used the money five years ago . Like I could have used the money for the last decade . Like nobody's thinking like I'm going to go make a podcast so I can pay Chad . I'm sorry .
Speaker 1The point is this . I forgot the point . I didn't forgot what the question was . The point is this . The point is um , the risk is yours alone . Like it's not your mama's risk , it's not your daddy's risk , it's not your wife or your husband . I mean it can be . And if you have a partner , you better , for God damn sure , make sure that they are on board with the risk that you are taking , um , but if you're not , like , a lot of people who follow me are like between 30 and 40 , uh , you know , pretty even range of men and women I would say , um , executive , not even executive , like , uh , just professionals , some of them , others , you know , like craftspeople , creatives , um , that kind of like , those kind of folks . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1And there are people who are as far as the people who are reaching out and asking these questions . As I can tell , they are in some ways like repressed creatives . They are people who want to get out there , shoot their shot , do their thing and it's just like , at the end of the day , the only person who's going to wake up and go to bed with that shit every single day is you . And , yes , your friends are going to start acting funny . People are going to judge you , people are going to criticize you , they're going to talk shit about you . You're going to watch something you made , or listen to it or read it . They're going to think they could have done it better and they're going to project all their shit at you . Some idiot is going to be like I didn't know you were creative , like all that kind of stuff is going to happen and it's a . It's a roller coaster and like , sometimes you're going to feel really good about it , sometimes you're going to feel terrible . When something else very hard in your life happens , you're going to feel paralyzed by it but you're still going to have to work because you don't have Seth Meyers to write you a check and it just is what it is and it's just double middle fingers to like everybody all the time but not really Like because the the good people , like the people you want to have your back , the people who believe in you , like they're going to get way closer to you while that , while , while all of that is happening , if you want to have them . So I support shot shooting , all right . Next one , last one , because then we got to get out of here .
Speaker 1What was the most painful part of the journey to transition from corporate America to where you are now ? The most painful part was being scared . The most painful part is always the fear . It's never the actual stuff that's happening . It's never . You know my BET show getting killed and me not knowing if I was going to have money . It's never . Um , this person didn't pay me and I need that cash . Like . All that stuff sucks really , really , really , really bad .
Overcoming Fear and Channeling Nervous Energy
Speaker 1It does not compare to the fear in all of this . It doesn't compare to the fear that bad things are going to happen , the fear that somebody else is not going to think you're good enough . The fear that you're going to be vulnerable and try so hard and put your thing out there Nobody's going to fuck with it . Um , the fear that agents try to instill in you to keep you needing them . The fear that , like you know so-and-so , who has this connection , who has that thing . Like the way people sell is through fear . The way people get you needing them is by fear .
Speaker 1If you don't have me , you're going to be out there in the cold . If you don't have me to watch over you , to introduce you to people , to manage what you got going on , to do this , to do that , like to go find money for your project . If you don't have me , like your shit might not get done . Like the fear is the hardest part , because people pile the fear on intentionally so that you will . What did you just say ? When people are fearful , be greedy , right ? So if you can keep me afraid , then you can take my shit . Like that's what it is . Um , if somebody comes to us right now in the middle of a strike right , it's a drought Uh , while I'm mostly financing this show out of pocket , while we are a small team that I want everybody on this team , in each and our unique ways to like be able to grow from this opportunity .
Speaker 1Right , because we're all contributing here , like I want . I want Morgan to get rich off of this . I want Josh to say nothing , but anarchy was built in my studio and I want , like imagine if this shit was armchair expert , the way that that would affect your business . I want that . You know what I mean . I want for myself . I want to be able to know that this is going to generate an income that will give me the freedom in the rest of my career to do whatever I want . I want that right .
Speaker 1If somebody comes to me and they offer less than what I think it's worth , to give me a little window into feeling like , maybe I can do some of that and they tell me that , without their check , maybe all that shit just goes away , right , they can scare me and then they can take my shit for less .
Speaker 1Like that's the thing when people are fearful , be greedy . That's why the industry keeps you afraid . That's why the studios are playing chicken with us right now because they want to scare . They want us worried that somebody's not going to be able to pay college tuition for their kid because of this fucking strike , that somebody's going to have to sell their beach house , that somebody's not going to be able , somebody's going to have to drive over , like they want to scare it of all this shit . That's not even that scary . Maybe you got to drive over , like that's not scary . Maybe it's scary to some . Anyway , that's the answer to the question . I'm going to go to turn the phone lines on as I transition to my car . Morgan , would you like a ride home ?
Speaker 2Sure .
Speaker 1Okay , morgan will have a ride home , and here we go . I'm turning , I'm opening up the phone line . I really did do a lot of yelling today , but I think that's because I feel pretty good today . I feel like I'm starting to feel like myself again . Thank God , please , please God , let it continue to go this way . All right , let's see who's here . Brian is here . Invite .
Speaker 3Yo Yo Score one for him , all right .
Speaker 2Oh man .
Speaker 3First of all , are these segments , are these columns still helpful ?
Speaker 1I think so .
Speaker 3All right , well , in the spirit of that , and then I have two options for you . Number one , we can talk about why I'm panicking about this show launch that I'm doing this week Stuff building , chad , the creative advisor , and then , or number two , just piggybacking on the Kenya bearish thing . I had this note from a while ago that I was questioning why men feel like they need to get filthy , stinking rich . And you know , like I had , I had saw this interview with Kevin Hart and said , and I quote , with the tools I have today , what's my excuse for not trying to get as huge as I possibly can ? And you know , it just got me to thinking like what ? Like it's just it's not . Like .
Speaker 3Where in nature do you see animals or insects or anything like hoarding so much that they have relative billions of food morsels compared to like other people in the ecosystem ? There's just having me thinking like why the what the fuck is it about us and our social structure and men in general ? Or is it like we gotta get like obnoxiously wealthy ? Like that's just like the thing that we , like people , put in our heads ? So your choice A or .
Speaker 1B , I would like to do a , and then , if we come back around to be , perhaps be , but I would like to do a . That sounds like something . There's something really going on for you there , so I want that one .
Speaker 3All right Well okay as you know , I I have this show that I'm kicking off tomorrow . I will not use your platform to market it , but it will do it . Why not do it ? Do it , do it . I'm just trying to respect your shit . All right , I'll do it .
Speaker 3So yeah , so it's called self made dad . It's a show in which I'm want to explore the dynamics by which I created my own conceptions of fatherhood , manhood and responsibility , having grown up really without a father to teach me any of that shit . Like if it came to shaving , I figured that shit out myself . When it came to , you know , fucking making investments , I figured that shit out myself , and everything in between . So it's like I've just really created my own self and I just want to like unpack that , because I found that there are a lot of men who are dealing with that same shit . They're just like I kind of made this stuff up . I don't have a parent to guide me . Let's talk about it .
Speaker 3And you know , I told you this last week . I have like the amount of energy output in a show is just like you know it intellectually , but when you do it , then you're just like holy shit , I'm exhausted . It's just like this creative burst of energy comes out to you , even if you're not at the level of energy on the mic where you are hitting the high registers of your voice , like you are today where you're in a really good buy . And so you know , like , building up to that last week , and even building up because I'm doing this tomorrow it's like my first quote unquote official show . I'm like nervous as shit man .
Speaker 3I'm like second guessing the structure . I'm like , oh man , like what am I going to talk about ? Is this shit all boring ? I've considered completely scrapping the content that I was thinking about talking through tomorrow and I don't know if I have . Like I feel like I don't have a great routine for prepping for the show which that will come , but also just like settling out ahead of the show so I can channel that nervous energy into , as you know , my favorite quote energy on the mic . So yeah , man , I guess my ultimate question is like how do you create space and compartmentalization to channel that energy that typically translates into nervousness , fear , anxiety , into cool , like let me do something about it and put it into into the music . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1Yes , two seconds plugging into my car and then you hear me here . Okay , so if I'm understanding , how do I , how do I use nervousness or deal with nervousness nervousness with regards to like doing some kind of like recording , doing the show , doing other shows , etc . Is that what I'm hearing correctly ?
Speaker 3Yeah , man , I mean just to use a quote from everybody's favorite show , empire . As Terrence Howard's character would always say , put that shit in the music , you know , and I like I think about that a lot . But then I'm also like freaking out here because I'm like , oh shit , I got this pimple that came up overnight and then I got like things I want to talk about , but is anybody give a shit about these things like blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , like that's all going through my head . So just curious how you think about that , or push that stuff .
Speaker 1How do I think about it ? So I can say that this might be Terrence Howard adjacent , but I can say that more often than not , at least from a content perspective , if the cause for nervousness if I can make sure that that some of the cause for the nerves is because I am going to reveal something that I truly believe in , or believe generally speaking , that can be when that you're back , because that can mean that you are going the right direction . It can mean , like you are doing the job , which is like looking inward , figuring out what do I actually believe , and then doing the rest of the job , which is like sharing that , and the nervousness is like I'm going to be exposed . People are going to see this , people are going to know something about me that I've been hiding or that they haven't been able to see , and I think if you can just do a little bit of that , like there's a good chance that you're going to be able to get some people on board with what you're doing . Can you still hear me , Brian , by the way , because I'm in the car now . Yes , I can hear .
Navigating External Expectations, Finding Personal Validation
Speaker 1On top of that , some of it is just , I think , you not having a lot of practice yet . And the practice I don't mean just like doing the show , I mean doing the cycle of like make something , try to make it good , put it out and see if people like it . You have some practice that you've been doing it for a minute , but this one means something a little bit different to you , like in your mind . This is like you are really trying to put your best foot forward to see if people respond to this thing . And the practice it's like the practice of the feedback loop , like I'll tell you where I've gotten to it now , which is that when I don't feel like my neck is out , I start feeling weird .
Speaker 1When I don't feel like I've put something out so that people can respond to it and give me feedback of it , I can do something weird . That's a flip from where it used to be . That's a flip from the feeling of like fuck , my neck is out , like I'm exposed . This is affecting how I do everything . This is affecting how I go for a walk , like I can't stop thinking about it . I can't stop thinking about it . So I think some of that is just going to take like repetitions . Can you direct me to something more precisely within the question to help me say more words .
Speaker 3I mean , first of all , like I feel you on the putting yourself out there and like this one means something . I think what came to mind when you said that was it feels like this is I'm trying to build this as the home , right . Like I think that in my daytime , like I have coaching and advisory work and then my nights and weekends is this and like this , those two combined . I want to be like home . I don't want to have no job anymore , like I already had owned a business , sold it , that was great . I just don't want to work for other people . I don't want to be accountable to other people outside of the people I'd select to be my partners . So this is the thing , and I'm like man . I have a lot of energy about this , right .
Speaker 3Like when I think about how alone it feels to be a person growing up trying to navigate life without a guide , an older guide , an elder , who can say hey , man , don't do that , don't do this , go this way . How are you feeling ? I got your back . Like that shit is isolating and it's lonely as fuck . And so I like I have a lot of energy around this and like I want to put that into this music .
Speaker 3But I think , similarly , I'm also like panicking a little bit because there's like a narrative in my mind of like the I think , the old , both the old identity and old , let's say , network of my life .
Speaker 3That would be like is that what you're doing now ? What is that shit ? And I think that , like , I think one of the things that I'm telling myself now is consistency will break that resistance , right , like I like to say persistence breaks resistance in general . So like that feel like being consistent , getting better , continuing to tell my truth will break that narrative . So like I kind of don't hear it as much , but I think then , that in itself has put a lot of pressure on like what I think is good , right , and like this should be good to then and consistent to then break that resistance from my like friends network community of like what the fuck are you doing , brian ? And I don't know what good is in this context . So I think , like , as a next phase of this conversation , like how do you measure yourself ? And like how you felt about a show versus not , and keep the , let's say , the uneducated feedback out of the discussion .
Speaker 1The uneducated feedback . Okay , so there's two parts here that I want to respond to . I definitely want to get make sure I say the thing about how do I feel about a show after it's over . I also want to ask and I've asked you this before in a different way or maybe the same way , but I want to kind of want to get an update Are there some specific faces that come to mind when you think about that , those outside perspectives that are going to be like hating on what you're doing or even just feel like scoffing at it ?
Speaker 3Oh yeah , I mean , I think that there are a few different ones , some of which I think are more symbolic of like a like my old world in life , and so I kind of like dismissed those a little bit , but they're still , like very present , because that's like my internal narrative of like , oh well , you know , good job should have stayed on , good job could have stayed , good job , right , like that mentality is still there . And then there's the like people I really care about . That you know , I would like to both have support my work and also feel accepted by , and that one , I think , is a little louder .
Speaker 1Can you tell me a little bit more about how you okay , if you can apply faces to the to both groups . I guess , like okay , this is going to be an exercise in like walking through the fear of this whole thing that I think is worthwhile . I do wonder what do you think is the worst or most painful version of how those people will respond to what you do here , in the ways that it will arrive , in the ways that it will actually arrive to you , not in the ways that are impossible for you to know or see .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's a good distinction , because the first group , I would say there's a lot of like behind the back talking . Alright , let me think about this . So , okay , I'm going to put thematic names to this . So there's like a New York Wall Street archetype , right . Then there's like my community , like friends and family , but like straight and narrow kind of friends and family , and so there's some overlap between the two and so the like behind the back kind of like , you know , like gossipy , shit talky kind of vibe , which I would argue a lot of the way that you've positioned , like the Jack and Jill community . I feel like there's like overlap in that energy . That part of it doesn't necessarily affect me , but I do like see that like it plays a role in my head and it overlaps a little bit with , like my like close community , friends and family , right , because so then that little shit talky comes into that community a little bit . The friends and family community , like in my mind it's more of
Struggles With Sharing Personal Artistic Journey
Speaker 3a .
Speaker 3I know I do this when I'm like not totally sure I understand what someone's doing and they're not feeling receptive to questions or inquiries about it . I distance myself and I've seen that happen with other people like with me , whereas , like , I'm not clear on what I'm doing , so I can't articulate it to someone yet they distance themselves from me until I get clear because they don't know how to get in and then understand and be helpful . And I'm like , and I feel like in this process of creating , I'm like man , there's a little bit of like . I don't want to talk about this shit with people . That I'm feeling because I just feel like it creates too many voices in my head and that is beneficial to the work , but then it also creates rift , like distance in relationship . And so I think , in order of magnitude of importance to me , the distance in the rift and relationship component for the friends and family folks that feels like the one that really hurts the like , gossipy talk behind your back . That's probably been happening for years because I do some reckless shit out here , so you know there's probably a lot of like hey , man , brian did this shit here about that . That has been circulating for years , so I'm less concerned about that .
Speaker 3So I think , way finding to the point is like I don't know , like I think that there's this balance that I'm not sure how to think about , of like I'm feeling and wanting to connect and have , let's say , intimacy with my friends and family around these things that I'm doing . But I also think I also see that there is professional value in keeping some separation , because those folks maybe are closer to straight life and don't like really see how this works or like why I'm doing it . And then it's like all right , well , I don't need your questioning , I don't need your anxiety to infect me , so like I just need to keep that wall up . But then there's like a , it's a catch 22 in terms of like the thing I want is on the other side of this wall , but I have to put up the wall to do the thing that I want . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1Yes , I would ask you because I would try to now paraphrase what you just said before I go to my next bit . But can you paraphrase it for me ? I'm trying to make sure I understand . So the first group you're worried that they're going to talk shit about you . The group you're worried that there's going to be . It's going to create distance because they're not going to understand you the way that they used to . Is that right ?
Speaker 3Correct .
Speaker 1Yeah , nailed it , so that's interesting . I think that those are very valid fears . And if the group in the first set are like the group in the first set of my own life , I can promise you that they are already talking shit about you and I mean I can't really promise it because they're not doing it to me , but I would put a high value of certainty , a high level of certainty on it and I bet that a lot of that is again like it's rejection , like how dare Brian think that his voice is worth hearing ? How dare Brian think that he can do something creative instead of something , I guess , more formulaic or safer ? And the second group I just feel like anybody who loves you , like who really loves you and this is not to placate the fear , because you're still going to be scared , but I just feel like anyone who loves you , who sees you being honest and sharing your real story . I think they're going to try to find if they really love you , because some of them maybe don't , but if they do , I think they're going to try to find the best way to support you in doing so , including giving you more space to be more yourself and be more honest . And I do think that they will get it wrong a lot and I think that that would be difficult for you and I think it will cause some flare ups . But people who really love you cannot be bested or pushed all the way away by a couple little flare ups or a couple little weird moments or awkwardness or confusion about how to be close to you . You know what I mean . I think people I love get stung from time to time by the things that I say into a microphone and ones who I have real lasting love with . We always find a way to stay near , we always find a way to still try to speak each other's language a little bit better each time and whatnot . But those fears are really shit . There was some more fear I thought maybe there was .
Speaker 1That was just about how other people absorb it and you ask , like how do I know when I've done a good show In this medium ? A good show , I think , has a feeling of release and it has a rhythm that I think you will , that you probably are already picking up on in the work that you've done to this point , and it just like I'm trying to think it feels to me in this medium like when you have a great dinner with a friend and you guys hit all the points . You are yourself , you're present , you hit all the boxes of emotion , you laugh a little , you ponder , you know , you feel feelings , you empty your bag of ideas and connections that you came with . But I think , above all else , like I always come back to this , like I think it feels honest , I think it feels like if I didn't say something , it's because I didn't want to say it , not because , like I said something else , that was not it , that was a lie .
Speaker 1Does that make sense ? Like if I wanted to leave something out , I would have held it , but I didn't fake any emotion , I didn't fake a point of view , I didn't fake a curiosity that I don't really have . I didn't pretend like I had done some research that I didn't do . I didn't pretend to know something that I didn't know . Like I think that's when you walk out and you're like I did the thing Because , like this is just dinner with a friend , like that's what it is on some level , does that make
Feedback and Building a Show Structure
Speaker 1sense ?
Speaker 3Or does that resonate .
Speaker 1Can you believe ?
Speaker 3that it feels like , if I'm hearing what you're saying , it feels like it's equal parts . You check the box on a rhythm , a vibe , right , an energetic kind of pace , right . That's kind of like one . That's like the technical part of it . And then there's the like was I authentic and honest when I showed up , right ? And that's the part of dinner conversation and I feel like , oh , you know , you like catch up with an old friend . It's like keeping a rail , talking shit , maybe you know like having jokes . Also , being honest , like I don't fucking know about that , but here's how I feel about it , so that you show up right , Not like the facade of you , but the actual you shows up . So it's like did I check the box or the technical stuff ? And then do I feel like I showed up to this thing , I brought my real self to this thing ?
Speaker 1Yes , and I think you preparation will always help for that . Like you know , coming with your notes or having already digested them before you come in , having a thought about even if you don't hit the time marks , exactly like just having a thought about when do I want to land on this thing ? When am I going to like a lot of the work of the show ? Is sequencing the show ? It's like how I want to jump in when I have the most energy on this topic because it requires a certain amount of theatrics versus . This topic lives mostly in my head , so I can wait until I get to like the midpoint to hit this thing right here .
Speaker 3And then I think like being precise in how you talk about things you know , like as a well , as you're thinking , as you're coming back , I will say I feel that point and hopefully you can hear this , but I'll come back to it if not . But , like , I've been structuring my run of show almost like a like like you would expect a symphony right Like it's like hey , these are kind of the warmups , these things link . There's some like section breaks , there's like intermissions in between each act and then by the time you get to the end , I like a hope to get to the thing that , like I have the most energy about or if it's like , the most hard hitting , but that one's actually kind of tough in balance because the beginning part of it , like I noticed you know , I'm broadcasting these things on Instagram live right now and I imagine , like as a podcast consumer myself , like you want to capture people in the first like five minutes . So I'm like how do I put something that's like engaging in the first part , where , like the first 15 seconds or five minutes are really like eye catching or ear catching ? But then also like being honest and , like you know , with that , like hey , you got to warm up before you get to the crescendo , like you can't just jump straight into the crescendo .
Speaker 3That's something I haven't figured out . Or , you know , I'm whatever , I'm like on episode two , basically tomorrow , so I don't know if I would have the answer to that . So that's definitely something I'm trying to figure out with the run of show and I'm going to be tinkering with you know , and I'll say the other thing that has me a little on edge is like I want to ask for feedback , like you was , since the part of the show , and I want to ask you for feedback . But I'm also like , do I want the feedback ? And I think it's more so like I don't want to . I don't , hmm , I don't know how to ask for feedback .
Speaker 1Oh , can you start ?
Speaker 3over , I got booted , all good . I was just . I was just talking to Phil space , so I was still a buster .
Speaker 2You were saying something good , though I can hear it Okay .
Speaker 3So I was . I hit on two things , I think . Number one was , like just to react to the let's call it the run of show point you were making , where you sequence things in a way such that like , oh , I have energy for this , let me do this in the beginning and then maybe put this heavy thing in the middle , et cetera . I've been trying to structure mine kind of like like like a like a meal right , or like a like a symphony . It's like , hey , you start out with appetizers or warm up and you build , build , build , build , build . And then the thing like at the tour of the end , it's like this is the thing , like I mean like we're talking about some real ass shit here , kind of deep diving , pushing some energy , and in between I have , like you know , intermissions or segment breaks that like at least give a little bit of a pause for a joke or levity or something that just creates some shift in separation .
Speaker 3But what ? Where ? I like , within that right , like , that's kind of just my intention Energetically , I want , like the beginning , to be like all right , hey , we're getting to reacquaint with each other , and then we're building , we're building , we're building , we're building , building , building . Let me tell you about this . One night stand right Like that kind of energy for a dinner right Not that I've had one night stands , let me be clear .
Speaker 3And then , but I think , like , like that feels a little bit in conflict with how I consume audio content , or like pods and shows , whereas , like I make the decision am I going to keep listening to this in the first like three to five minutes , and I'm like so , like I want to . I try to put something up front that feels like all right , if you listen to nothing else , you get this , and it feels like , oh , this is interesting , this is thought , stimulating , whatever . But that feels in conflict a little bit with that build . So I don't know , like that's just something I'm playing around with . I don't know if I necessarily need a response on that , but like , similar to that point , the part you tuned back in on I was making this point that like I want to refine that process over time . Right , like I know this is just where I'm starting . Right , I'm starting so that I can see how it goes and then I'll tweak over time . You know , I will say I've learned that by watching your show . You started in one format and then you've tinkered over time guests , no guests , segments , games , whatever . Like that's tinkered .
Speaker 3I'm like I can , I can give myself grace for that . But part of what works for me with other things is like let me get feedback , let me watch the customer or the user use this thing so I can tinker with it . And in this I'm like man , I don't know if I I don't know how to ask for feedback in a way that won't create insecurity in my brain . You know what I mean and specifically what I was saying was like I would like to hear your feedback on the episode I did last week , but I'm also like I don't know if I actually do want to hear it , not that I don't value your opinion , but because I'm like about to do the show tomorrow and then I'm like well , is this , is it worth getting it ? How do I like what feedback would I actually want to know ? That would help me and not throw me off mentally . Does that make sense ?
Speaker 1Yeah , my , my thought on it is if the priority is my priority for nothing but anarchy , is that nothing but anarchy has to come out twice a week , every week ? And if , if , if , if receiving a type of feedback is going to stop that from happening , I need to shut out that feedback . Now , that's personal to me . Maybe I can know what is going to create something in my life that will stop , twice a week , from happening for you . You can make a choice to prioritize the show or prioritize for lack of a better word like the ego , and , and sometimes it's important to prioritize the ego as a creative person , because , like you do got to , you got to make sure that , like the ego does not become so destroyed or so more down or so self-inflicting that it stops the art from coming out . So I guess the question I would ask you is like what , why do you want to , why , why would you want to protect , you know , the ego by not receiving feedback ?
Speaker 2Hmm .
Speaker 3Uh , I think . All right , let me . Let me think about how I answer this . I think it's less about if someone were to say I didn't like that topic and how I feel about that specific thing , versus uh , the like , like something that goes directly to the intention I set with some structure or something like that . So so what I mean by that is like it like uh , I've listened to my last episode a couple of times now and I was like I personally think like overall , like that seemed like a pretty good flow , like I feel like I could probably pick the energy up a little bit . That's somewhat in like fundamental to how I talk , and so I'm like generally making uh and and like a intentional decision to vary my volume , my tone , blah , blah , blah , uh , and I also talk slower on like these shows , because I expect people like I listen to podcasts on like one and a half times , so I like don't want my voice to sound too fast when it gets sped up , um , but that like I sometimes I feel like that might sound like low energy . So anyway , I make that point to say like I think that there are some things that I were to if I were to hear it now , ahead of the show .
Speaker 3It may throw my plan , my confidence in the plan , into such disarray that I would like try to scramble and quote , unquote , fix it and then fuck it up for tomorrow as a and like . I don't know when the right time to do something like that is right . Like , is it like you have a few episodes under the belt , then do a look back , or is it like every episode Like ? I don't know . So . So I think that , to succinctly answer your question , I think that my , my insecurity with it is how I will let the feedback affect the next output .
Speaker 3You know like and what the right feedback cycle for something like that is . Because I don't want to like , then get like , because you know I have people that'll like send me messages and they'll be like oh , you know like , why are you doing this and shit . I just kind of ignore it . That's easy to ignore , but if I got a piece of feedback from like you and then I was like , oh shit , like I really got to think about it . But I know that the kind of thing that I need to think about takes time and I'm going to be like on edge about it the next time I do it because I haven't fixed it by then . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1Yeah , I have two . I have a couple of thoughts . One is like are people actually DMing you and being like , why are you doing this ? Like being assholes .
Speaker 3I've got a couple of text messages about it .
Speaker 1And it's like it's like sorry , say that again . Yeah , I was just sorry . I was just saying can you tell me about it ? But it sounds like that's what you were about to do .
Speaker 3Oh yeah , it'll be like . So it'll be like friends that fit into that overlap community of like the , who are the straight laced like family and friends , and I know that they're coming from a place of like . I just want to understand , like are you good and like what the plan is here and this does like what is your plan and vision and you know what's your 10 year plan , and blah , blah , blah , blah . So like that's what's underlying the question . But it's just like they're just so , they seem so , they're just so direct about it with the question that it hits me as like I mean , yeah , fuck . Like it tells me they don't understand making something right , they understand serving or being employed , but not necessarily making the thing or being responsible for the thing , and so like I'm sorry , oh , no good good I was .
Speaker 1it suggests to me also that they may not understand you . Do you feel like they understand you ?
Speaker 3I think that the answers intellectually no , emotionally yes , and so I think what the emotional yes is probably more , that I feel safe with them , more so than do they understand me , which is a different question Got you . And so , yeah , I mean that's fair . And like I think again , like I know this is so going back to like you know you , I like this is a part of me that I know where , like community and relationships and like these things are really really precious to me . So I get on edge with things that create separation and segregation , with those things , right , Like I think . So I meant I think , yeah , I mentioned I did that like retreat , yeah , two weekends ago .
Navigating Self-Realization and Potential Reactions
Speaker 3One of the things I had a self realization about , or like I could just see more clearly I probably even mentioned it on the show before is like I used to hold myself back with , like my results , or I used to feel guilty for outperforming my friends because it would put me into a different like sphere , you know , like being being the gifted in town to class or I get to go on like certain trips , or like you know , do , like get these honors or whatever , and like these folks didn't , and then even translated to professional life , right , Like I get these cool jobs and you know they're struggling , and I'm like dude , like I've put in the work and doing this , I'm like I want to be proud of it , but I can also see that this creates some resentment and like distance between me and someone that I care about and , like I know cares about me , but like they have their own issues .
Speaker 3So that is like when you start to grow apart , like that feels hard for me and so that I'm in it . I'm like not letting that stop me , obviously , but I feel that , and so the spirit of your question is like when I get questions like , or you know , statements like that from people is like , why are you doing this ? What is this shit ? Then it's then to me , I hear it as like man , this is a , this puts our friendship at risk , this puts the love that we have at risk , Like that's how I hear it and I know that's like you know a different narrative going on up in the head , but it's a . It's something that , like I am trying to be cautious about inviting in because then it will throw off , it can , it can influence my work as I'm getting my feet underneath me to look like the how to do this . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean . I mean the first thing I will say , just like cause it has to be said out loud is like being afraid that this will go well and somehow separate you from your friends will like I can understand how somebody would get to that place of fear , but like you have so much in front of you to get to that point and that all the shit that's in front of you to get to that point is like um , it deserves , like , your full attention , I would say , and so many things change between so many unknowable , like just life things will change between now and when that point comes that like I don't even think you can solve for it at this particular , I don't think there's anything you can do to like do anything with that , because it's all such a weird kaleidoscope . Like it's also a noble who will react in what ways toward you being public with your voice ? For me , I thought I had it all . I thought I like understood which friends stood where and which family members stood where , and it's all gone a lot differently than I may have expected , with the exception of , like my sister , who I knew would always be supportive , no matter what , basically , but on the other side of it , like I feel like I mean you asked how do you know that you've had a good show , like , actually , you said a couple things . One is how do you know you had a good show ? If I feel like anybody who listens to the show is going to understand me better , as I actually am , that feels like a good show . If I feel like they're going to be challenged in a way , at least like intellectually in some way , because I've been overly specific about how I see something and so , like another person can't possibly have the exact same point . If you want it that I do , that's a good thing , I know . As an example , just to connect to you , I'm now considering am I going homecoming ? It's my line 15 and 15 year anniversary . This is to affirm your fear .
Speaker 1I am so much less popular among I am so much less popular among you know a certain certain circles of our alma mater than I was five years ago , when I was harmless . You know what I mean when I was like . You know what I mean when it was like , oh , I didn't know , you were smart . Like I was way more popular than I , was so much more innocuous , I was so much more forgettable and I was extremely unthreatening to anybody else's ego . Now , I shouldn't say extremely , I don't think I've ever been threatened to anybody else's ego , but I was way less threatening to someone else's ego .
Speaker 1And now when I go , it'll be like some people are going to want to kick it with me the whole fucking time , which is phenomenal and I love it , and I'm going to get a few like stale faces , which is what I have gotten the last three times that I've gone to homecoming , and I think the same will be so for you and I don't know .
Speaker 1That's just kind of cool to me . I like it's annoying and it's something to think about and it's something that I'm always like kind of halfway dreading about when I show up is like how many people are going to try to make our interaction something that it doesn't have to be , like it's something about them , like something that it like it could be so simple for all for us to just DAP and keep it moving , but like some people are going to want to get an extra face off , they're going to want to get an extra little moment of weirdness . They're going to want to make sure I know that in some way they feel hope that abandoned , disrespected by me , just quite literally , just like living my life as I want to live it . Does that make sense ? Do you feel that ?
Speaker 3Yeah , guys , it's interesting because the topics you cover are in themselves , lightning rods . Like I can just imagine , whenever this Jack and Jill book comes out , it's going to feel something akin to the , to the best man book that Tayden wrote . It's been interesting because the there are , I have found . I have found that , particularly given that , like a lot of what I talk about and just like feel drawn to is just like you know , examining manhood , examining like fatherhood , like opening up about my insecurities and like , oh shit , I burned out , and like all this stuff that that men don't often talk about , that it's created this like new openness and like willingness to be vulnerable within like guys that I know .
Speaker 3So it's like , oh , like you feel that way too , and now you're willing . You're like , oh , you see me doing it . So you're like , oh , hey , man , like let me share and express this . Like , oh , thanks for sharing it . Like I feel like now I feel less alone , blah , blah , blah . So there's like an openness there , which has been great , and so I think , conversely , I've seen people have negative reactions because they don't want to feel that they're like I don't know this thing , not even though I know it's in my heart . So that has been interesting . And then , like on the other side of the equation , you know like there'll be women and they're just like oh , you're such a good dad , brian . Like I don't know how homecoming would go for me . It might be different experience . I got to I'm not going with that money .
Speaker 1Well , it's not that actually begs to me important question that I think I've been giving you as creative feedback the entire way , which is , like I , I , it is my belief that you do enjoy the support and community with men .
Speaker 1Period , and , and particularly as a response to what you are doing , full stop again . Now , new sentence question , really , which is will you be willing to say something , to ask something , to dig into something as a curiosity , to define something in a way that you believe is true and honest ? That is going to put you at odds with men , like that is going to actually . And I don't mean like in between , I don't mean like on some liberal , I mean like actually . Like , as an example , I tried to define what a man is and I don't know what a man is , and maybe a man is not anything like . I'm not saying co-op that particular point of view , but like are you willing , I guess , are you willing to fall on the other side of the spectrum on this thing once you do this exploration , which is like maybe a bunch of dudes who are near you think like Brian doesn't know what a man is , he doesn't know himself , fuck him .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think okay . So broadly , I think the answer is yes and I think that the where I get stuck with that is way finding to how I actually feel about something . And it's like you know I like to do . I have both self and external inquiries when I'm like curious about something and I don't know . So , as like , as an example , this specific topic that you and I have batted around a bunch , around like what is a man I still have discussions with people about it . I ask people this often . I ask people at the men's weekend this question because and both like what is a man , and the question you asked , which is what positive traits of a man would you not want your daughter to have ? And like I think that I am .
Speaker 3I think , for the self examination point , there is a point I need to accept and have conviction around my own perspective , because implicitly in these discussions , if I were to look back at it , I could see like I'm kind of consistently taking this person position on it , but I'm not like being explicit about it . So I think that's probably where I need to get to is like hey , I've had this self inquiry for a while about it . Now I feel like convicted in this statement , I'm going to say it and then live on that . I never really have an issue with like I'm said this thing and I'm sticking to it . It's just more so like I don't really know how I feel about that . So like that's been more my issue and I think that I'm asking .
Speaker 1what I'm asking most specifically , brian , is like are you open to that thing that you find honesty and conviction on ? Are you open to that thing being the thing that pushes you away from people that you care about ?
Speaker 3Well , I mean , hmm , yeah , yes . I guess I think the I think the answer is probably a little more squishy , because I hear your question and I think implicit , with me marching towards this thing and opening up this platform . The answer is yes , because I do believe that this will be successful and I want to do this for like 10 plus years . So I'm going to run into that at some point .
Starting a Podcast
Speaker 1I'm not asking it for effect , I'm asking it . I hope you know that I'm asking it because I think I'm not saying , like , steer into something that's going to ostracize you , but like it's there's a good chance that , like , if your point of view is singular , the faster you find your singular point of view , the faster all this shit goes , as far as I can tell , and oftentimes that singular point of view it is isolating , like it will , it will , you will have to make the trade off of people that you care about for new people , like maybe I mean maybe that's that has been the thing that I have , that's when the thing I've experienced , and that's that's something that is , I guess , being a conviction , something I really believe in is like , if you try to , if you try to let your point of view be something that's that's going to allow people who care about you and project on you to stay , to all stay near , then it's probably not working at the at the effect that it could be working at .
Speaker 1Mm , hmm , mm , hmm , my thought yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , because the other , because the other thing , like the opposite of that thing , is what a politician is good at , which is finding a point of view within a certain bracket that is so opaque that everybody can kind of like not everybody , but everybody within their community can get some piece of the pizza that serves them . It's like I got pepperoni for you and anchovies for you and you know this thing for you and that thing , but like to me , like that's not how art , that's not how like art and media work as far as I can tell . Maybe that's just what I want to believe , but I do believe it .
Speaker 3Well , I think that implicit within that is like what is this person's clear point of view ? Right ? But I will say , like the politician analogies in an app , one because I tend to think of , I have my like feedback I get about my perspectives in general is like I can be diplomatic right , and that's somebody in my nature . I think they're like when I hear Barack Obama answer a question , I somewhat relate to that because he's like truly , I think in the optimistic and not cynical case , he sees the best of both sides of a perspective and wants to reconcile them right and so like I feel that to a certain extent . But there are some things that I'm like I don't know if I agree with that like I have discussions with friends who have very strong views on conspiracy theories and , as you probably know from my both direct and sarcastic comments about it in the chat group like I'm just like most of this just bullshit . You're just like making up stuff to sound important and because you have an issue with institutions , but you don't actually like , you don't want to do the work to see that this is a real , this is not a real thing . So that annoys the shit out of me . So like I can make that clear , no problem . But I think this just a circle back to a point you're making , like what I think , like with my in my mind .
Speaker 3I'm like committed , 10 years I'm going to run down this path . Number one I like me to and want to continue to refine to my own singular voice , which is , I think it's going to take bites at the apple and internal narrative this time . But two , at some point over 10 years I'm going to hit something that's going to piss someone off and like I am at this moment willing to accept and create that separation . How I process that emotionally in the moment might be different . Like I don't , like I've never let things like that stop me from doing a thing , but it's definitely actually that's not a fair statement to say . Since I've been an adult , I have not let things like that stop me from doing a thing , but it does create a lot of fear .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I and , let it be known , barack Obama had a podcast and it was terrible . Let that be a lesson . Many , many politicians have tried and failed to make a good podcast there . They have big platforms and they're incapable of sustaining them in a podcast medium because , like , people who listen to this kind of shit are like fucking people on Reddit . They're like people who like to like .
Speaker 1We're people looking for some real shit , like even Joe Rogan's audience . They're looking in the wrong place , but like they're trying to hear something real , they're looking for something real . They're looking for something that affirms them as an actual human being they're not looking for , like they're not looking for one size fits all , and you know , that's why I just , every time a politician starts , the two professions are at odds , like I don't know how you can do both and try to do them both well , like this thing is about singularity and niche and that thing is about consensus , that thing is about winning a popularity contest . Anyway , that's a spiel . But can I ask another question about your fear and all this ? And it's a personal , it is more personal than the rest of them . So I want to of course , you can , you know , not say anything . Can I ask it Do I have a consent shoot ?
Speaker 3shoot . Yeah , go for it .
Speaker 1Well , your wife has a podcast and I'm curious , like how , where is ? Like that's your like , that is your most immediate family ? You know what I mean . Like , as far as these two circles are are are conjoined and separate in different ways , like that's the one that's , like that's your purse , like that's your partner . So how does her experience in this medium , or her support or her criticism , affect your outlook on the fear that you're feeling right now about getting started tomorrow ?
Speaker 2Hmm , hmm .
Speaker 3Okay . So watching her example , I know that it is possible , so that's helpful . Like doing the thing is possible . Watching how she's way found to her core voice has been helpful in that it . You know it like .
Speaker 3I think that with anything that people start , in general we often I will speak myself , I have experienced like hesitation to start because you think that you need to be at perfect out of the gate and you forget that nothing starts up perfect . Everything starts out like a shitty kind of like conjoined mess and you can like start with the direction , but your path becomes clear as you iterate . So watching her do that from like where she started to where she is now , has been helpful to remind me and encourage me like hey , I know that I'm really good at iterating quickly . So , like , let me just start . And maybe my pause in the beginning , as I was thinking about it , was like she's one of the people that I'm like man , I want your feedback . But I'm not sure I want your feedback because I'm a feel , some kind of way about your feedback and I need and I feel like her insight would be helpful . And let me separate that from encouragement . Her encouragement is consistent and there she believes in me and I'm like like I'd be , like I don't know why I hear that shit , because a I only hear my wife telling me what to do . I don't think anybody who's married ever like wants to hear their , their spouse telling them what to do , even though most of the time that spouse is right .
Speaker 3And then , number two , it's because it feels like I'm still in the stage of rawness , of openness , like I feel like my outer shell hasn't hardened , so I'm like still feel a little soft . Any little poking at that outer shell could just go straight through to the heart and I'm like man , I don't know if I'm ready for that , but I also know that I kind of need to do that to toughen the shell . So I don't know , man , I'm conflicted about it , if I'm being honest . So , yeah , it's been good to have in the house , it's been encouraging . We do have some separation of church and state where you know , we don't like similar to how I've been interacted with you , if the feedback isn't invited , it is not given . But yeah , man , I don't know , it's like there it's interesting because , like , there are people that I like hold their opinion in high esteem and high regard and I'm like I don't know if I'm ready for that shit . Man , I might . I might feel it's hurt yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean , it's a process I'm telling you and myself this now which is like it's a for you to get something out there that you believe in , because , like , if you don't know , like even before , it goes to a different place and you're like I don't know , you're going to have a sting more because you didn't think it was hot . So when somebody tells you it's not , you already knew that it's going to resonate in a different way . That hurts you . Does that make sense ? That's that's my thing , that I believe it's like . But if you , if you really want a core level , like yo , this is good and this is close to this is 80% of as good as I could have made it and then someone can say , because it's like , they can't invalidate you , it's your point of view and as long as you put your point of view out there in a way that was honest , like I don't know what can they say like but but you know , and yet , like you , you're introducing yourself . You're kind of introducing yourself as a new person in a lot of ways and that's exciting . I'm excited for you . I I got to wrap this up because I just got home and I need to take my dog on a walk .
Speaker 1Brian , thank you , as always , for calling in , and your calls are valuable . They do help us find new surface area here . I also just like chronicling your journey for this audience . I think it's . I think there are are many people who are sitting in a similar place to yours , like , which is to say , like people who are trying to craft their voices , people who are ready to like enter a new phase and who are actually doing it and not just talking about it , and it's it's really awesome to like let you , it's really awesome that you volunteer yourself as a guinea pig on this show . So thank you for that and that's it .
Speaker 1I'm going to play some music and then we're going to get out of here . You all thanks for coming . Nothing but anarchy . We're on my Instagram is at chat . Send Brian . Where can they find you if you're still here ? Brian Lee shields on Instagram and , yeah , more information about the live show is coming , but you can email us to get the RSVP link at nothing but anarchy 13 at gmailcom . We'll see you on Thursday , same time , same place . Goodbye .
