Kami and Tanner Raising Callie

In this episode, we talk to Kami and Tanner about raising their daughter Callie. 

This episode is sponsored by Zing Standers.

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Transcript

Deonna: Hey y'all, welcome back to Raising Disabled. So before we get started on today's episode, we are just going to talk about what we've been up to. So, Rhandyl, what has life been like for the last couple weeks? End of school, all that business. 

Rhandyl: Yeah, end of school. I think I don't know, if you're a parent with just kids in general, May is, I swear it's busier than the holiday season. There's something new every day.

Deonna: It's not that fun, really, for it to be, it's not. 

Rhandyl: No, it's like all sorts of at school activities, and last week. Remi had a water day at school, and then she had it was called a fun Friday. And so water day, they were outside most of the day, and they had splash pads and fun little water games and so yeah, she had a lot of fun. Last year she wasn't too sure about it, but this year she had a lot of fun. And then this past Friday she had the fun Friday and so basically just a bunch of bounce houses, and she actually got in there and the nurse just helped her jump in there and she was just having a blast. I got all sorts of videos.

Deonna: She seems like she would after getting to know her a little bit, but. 

Rhandyl: Yeah she enjoyed it this year, a lot. Everybody was telling me how much she enjoyed it. So that made me happy. That's cool. She was, yeah. So she got to be involved in that this year. And then of course this week we have all the award ceremonies and the school parties and yeah.

Deonna: Does her class have an awards ceremony where they give them little awards? 

Rhandyl: It's cute. So yeah, we have that. And then my son's been in swim still swim lessons every morning and that's going good. He's not crying anymore. He's just jumping in and just pretends he's a crocodile and oh, that's cool. It's going good. But yeah, so what about you guys? I know y'all have been up to lots of stuff lately. 

Deonna: Yeah, we have had a medical journey like the last week. But yeah, we did all the end of school kind of things too. But Allie, so my son is still in school, but Allie, we pulled out of school a couple weeks early because she had to have this procedure done in Houston at Texas Children’s. And we talked about this many times, but that's a 10 hour thing to go there and this one required inpatient stay, like recovery. Like nothing was wrong, like some of these things that you do, when you have a trach vent kid, whereas if it could be like almost like a day surgery for another kid or whatever it's bigger, they have to be in the ICU and, it's  Yeah, and yeah, if you ever had a spinal cord injury child similar to Allie, I can go into what we had done and all that. I'm not going to go into all that, but, yeah, but she..

Rhandyl: How's she doing? 

Deonna: She’s doing good, and she it was a long surgery though. Like it was freaky. I thought that it was going to be, I don't know, In my mind, surgeries last two hours. So when we got there that morning, we went and did a few fun things before, just so she'd feel like she got to do something fun, but yeah. Good. And then we went, yeah, we checked in that night before and they said it was going to be like a six or seven hour deal. And I just was like, what? That's a long, long day, so it wasn't too bad though. Like I used to get real stressed when she'd have stuff like this done, I didn't feel like yeah this time.

Rhandyl: Yeah you’re talking about the length of surgery when we went to Boston for Remi's airway surgery, it was actually on my birthday was the day of her surgery, it was like 10 or 12 hours surgery. And I remember being like I am not sitting in this hospital. My family was there and Cole's family. And we stayed, of course, close to the medical district, but I was like, there is no way. And they were calling me every hour giving me updates of course. They do that. And I'm sure they were with y'all. But I remember it just being like, oh my gosh.

Deonna: And like with her, like back in the day with her pacemaker, there was this feeling, it was a long one too. Those are long. And I remember thinking like, oh shoot, like this may not end well for us, like I, I just didn't know. And so I was more stressed for that one.

And then yeah, she had some other ones that were more serious and this one wasn't that big of a deal. No But, you just have to stay impatient, but it was cool because so hopefully we'll be home by the time this comes out, unless something weird happens, but we're supposed to go home in two days, and so she's getting out of the hospital hopefully tomorrow, but yeah, we were in for just I don't even know, you lose count. Like, Time becomes, I don't even know. It changes. It's a time warp. It is. Yeah, that's the right way to say it. Because, you just lose, you don't know what day of the week it is, except for in the hospital you definitely know when it's Saturday and Sunday because, I was going to say, nothing happens on the weekends.It's like a ghost town. I definitely like being in-patient on the weekdays, but she did really well. 

But the funniest part of this whole thing is, we have talked about this, and if you haven't heard this episode, Beautiful Disasters. So we talk about how when me and Rhandyl were both in Houston, there were these big, natural disasters, like bad. 

The day before we went into the hospital, we went to Galveston, which is an island off of Houston. Texas people know this well, but basically we went out there to just go see the beach and go eat and do all that. Yeah. And when we were there, you have to drive over the bridge to get over there. And Allie's this isn't like that bridge in Baltimore, is it? Where it's going to fall in the water. And I was like, no, oh my gosh. Well then we're at Galveston, and the bridge gets hit, not the bridge that you go back over to go to Houston, the other bridge gets hit by a barge and gets messed up. And I'm like, what are the odds that we're here? No way. It was, it wasn't funny. I don't think anybody got hurt, but they may have, I'm not really sure. But it was just like, really, we're here, and this happens but we were back before we even realized that was what had happened. But we had fun going out. There's a spot in Galveston where a sidewalk basically goes way out onto the water. And so we got to take her really close to the water. Yeah. 

Rhandyl: I need the details because we're going next month. We're going to Galveston. 

Deonna: Oh no. I like looked around and was like, mental note. It's by Joe's Crab Shack. This is where you go out in the water. But then it was so funny because this, I don't know, we've talked about this before, how people say funny things to us, like out in public, but this lady was driving past us and we're walking down the sidewalk with Allie and this lady screams out her window, “Y’all are great parents” and it just made me laugh, but I know she was being nice. It was funny, oh, wow. 

No, we had fun in Galveston. Galveston has some fun, accessible things you can do, like Moody Gardens. We didn't do that this time, but there's a lot of neat things for kids over there. But the next day we went in and that was her, surgery. And the clouds were building and I knew there was going to be bad weather that day. And when we went to go pick up Allie from the OR we all started getting tornado warning alarms. And I'm just like, are you kidding me? Cause I knew it was getting nasty. 

Rhandyl: Yeah, we're used to tornado warnings in West Texas, but not, you wouldn't think about that in Houston! 

Deonna: I know. And there was a tornado there last time we were admitted here too. So I'm like, what is going on? We're cursed, but we were getting all these tornado warnings. We're just deep in the heart of the hospital. So I was like I guess this is the best place to be, whatever, and yeah, we get back to the room. She actually, I told you about this already, but she pretended her vent was messed up so that we could come back to the OR and walk with her to her room, so she basically faked an emergency, like a little toot. 

Rhandyl: What a stinker!

Deonna: It was so funny, like doctors were just like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with her? And I'm like, she's fine. She's played you. She wanted us back here and here we are, so.. 

Rhandyl: I know I told you anesthesia, they don't know what to do with patients that are awake.

Deonna: Oh no. Like she straight up lied to them. I was like you toot, but it was pretty funny. I'm like, I'm going to log that away as a funny thing that she like outsmarted brilliant people. Oh yeah. Yeah. But so we go back to the room and the windows at Texas Children's are really big, like I love them. They're huge and nice. But they were just bowing in and out. And I'm like, oh shoot. And three miles away, all the windows busted out of all the downtown buildings. And so I'm just like, what is going on? Why does this weird stuff keep happening? Which Houston can have crazy weather. 

Rhandyl: Oh, yeah. One of our best friends that lives there. Some of the tornadoes that you're talking about while you guys have been there went through their neighborhood. And a block away, two of the houses are leveled. And she was just in their house. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Deonna: They said that thousands and thousands of traffic lights were out and I think three or four hundred thousand people still don't have electricity from the other day. So I mean, the odds, like we're so thankful that we got to just have the procedure without a hitch and just move on with our life.

We got to see all these old friends, make new friends, and it just, I think it makes people feel good when they see our kids coming back and they're okay, and they're doing well because some of them don't know. 

Rhandyl: And it's not an emergency type situation. It's like not a bad situation, the reason that you're there.

Deonna: I don't know, I don't know how the nursing world works on the back end of it, but several people came in there and they were like, oh shoot, we saw you guys name on the uh, you know, list or whatever for that floor and we thought oh my gosh, did she get airlifted back here? Like we gave some people a little heart attack thinking it had been sent back. 

But yeah, no, it was good. And it's like she's doing really good. Which is crazy because she's paralyzed but she could feel some of the pain and we were like, dang it, what is the only positive of being paralyzed? You can't feel pain but she still could feel internally some stuff but we're hoping that'll go away in a day or so,

Rhandyl: I hope so, too. 

Deonna: And it's like me and Dane, do you guys take turns 24 hours every, what do y'all do? 

Rhandyl: So when we're inpatient I do day shift, my husband does night shift.He's naturally nocturnal. 

Deonna:Oh, yeah. That's what we used to do. 

Rhandyl: So he just sleeps in the day and so anytime she's been hospitalized in the last few years, that's just what we do. I'm there all day. He's there all night. Yeah. 

Deonna: We do like a 24 hour shift, and we switch every night like at six because I don't know why but we just do that because the other one who gets to go home or to the hotel kind of looks forward to getting to go chill that night and then they have the whole day the next day just to do whatever. So I think my husband just chilled and read and lived his best life. He just was chilling.

But I was going out and I went to the Museum of Fine Art here. Nice! I went to Rice Village. Places I've wanted to eat lunch. Oh, yeah. Oh, you know we went to Rice Village. Oh, yeah. Like I got to go do some things that I like to go do by myself and just walk around and I don't know. I think, a lot of Moms of disabled kids can probably relate to this, but we just like being by ourselves sometimes. And it's nice not having anyone need us. And then when you go to the Allie, you're refreshed and you're ready to go.

Rhandyl: Yes. I actually just made a quick, half day trip this past weekend to one of my friends baby showers. And it was like a two and a half hour drive there and a two and a half hour drive back. Yeah. It was just me by myself in the car. And, yeah, sometimes just having that alone time, personal space is so much needed, whether you're kids in the hospital and you're finally getting to go out, or stuck in a car but I have that mental. just a minute, load off. Yeah. 

Deonna: Yeah. So, I mean, it's stressful being here, obviously, you're in the hospital, and you don't know how things are gonna kinda go but it has been nice too, having those days. Sure. Watched a lot of movies, watched a lot of stupid reality TV so, it's been nice. But, yeah we're, by the time this comes on, we'll be home, hopefully, yeah, that's our prayer. Yeah. Yeah. We, yeah, so that's what we've been up to, and I'm really excited about this episode. Me too. It's the first time we've ever had a dad on, and it changed the whole thing, the whole interview, having him on there, so it's gonna be a good one, and so we're excited about this one.

Yeah. Hope you guys enjoy! 

 Hey y'all, it's Deonna from Raising Disabled, and at our house, my daughter is in her Zing Stander all the time. She loves it. She loves to get in there and play video games or read or play on her computer. Zing Standers are designed to offer more than just support. They pave the way for crucial early intervention therapy.

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Rhandyl: Hey y'all, today we have on Kami and Tanner Noble , and we're excited to have a couple with us today. And. I wanted to start this out with how I met you guys.

So it's been a little over two years ago, and I was picking Remi up from school, and of course loading her wheelchair, and all the things. And of course Remi is visibly disabled. She has a trach, a vent, all the things. And then this mom runs up to me and she's Hey, and I'm like, Hi. And anyway, and it was Kami and then Tanner comes up and we were chatting and she was telling me she had twins and they were babies.

One of them was probably going to have a trach and come home with a trach. And they were basically asking me all the questions about insurance and the navigation of all of that. And I tried to get guide you guys in the right direction, but that was the first time I've met you guys. And then of course we have definitely stayed in touch, but yeah, that was a funny interaction and I'd like to hear y'all's version of it too, but Deonna, how did how did you meet?

Deonna: I met Kami because after their twins were born, everybody was reaching out to me, cause we have a bunch of mutual friends, and everybody was reaching out to me, you have to talk to Kami, you have to talk to her. And I'm like, I don't know this girl this is weird I'm just gonna reach out to this girl that I've never met or doesn't know me at all. And yeah, I reached out to her and just told her that my kid also had a trach, which I didn't realize what a big deal that is to have in common with somebody it's a weird thing. And yeah we started hanging out after that, just off that one thing, but I definitely felt weird reaching out right after you had twins being like, Hey, here we are friends now. So it's worked out.

Kami: Yeah, it has. Thank goodness.

Deonna: I want to know what you thought. I I want to know your version of meeting Rhandyl?

Kami: My version was, we had just left Callie in the NICU, and Tanner and I were picking up Finley. We are rarely together, but we were picking up Finley. Our oldest. 

Our oldest from school. She was going to the same school as Remi. Yeah. And Tanner was like that girl has a trach. That girl has a trach. You have to jump out and go talk to her mom right now. And I was like, I'm not going. No. Who is going to stop somebody? Oh, hey, your daughter has a trach. That's exactly what I said. Yeah. I jumped out of the car, very uncomfortable, and was like, hey, I'm sorry, our daughter is about to get a trach. I don't know who to talk to.

And Rhandyl was like, I'm sorry. Wonderful as usual and was like, yeah, what's up? Tell me, ask me your questions. We asked her like 500 questions. What home health agency do you use? What insurance? What how do you even get started with anything? And so Tanner had his phone out taking notes.

Yeah, he was sure. And Rhandyl, yeah, she was gracious enough to give me her number. And I remember texting her to another question. She called me and I was just so grateful to have a friend to call because You don't know what it's like to be in that situation until you're in that situation, and it was very uncomfortable for me to jump up and go talk to a random person, but also now that I'm on the other side of it, I want someone to do that if they need help or because our community is so small.

Exactly. And, the first time I met you, I remember we had mutual friends, too, and they were telling me about y'all. I remember praying for y'all, for Allie, as y'all were going through everything you were. And then, when Callie needed her trach, you were the first person to reach out to me. And I was like, oh, I have a friend. And we were, y'all were like a year along, I think, in that. 

Deonna: Yeah, I think so. Not far. We started around the same time. 

Kami: But you were like, I'm a year ahead and it gets so much better. I remember thinking it's gonna get better. Like this will be doable at one point. We can do this. And so that was so helpful too. Just having friends. 

Deonna: I was lying. We were freaking out still, but.

Kami: I needed you to be lying about it. Yeah, I know, 

Rhandyl: No, but I love that because I remember, I didn't know a soul when Remi was in that situation in the hospital. I wish I would have, ran into someone in my scenario that would have been able to help. But so yeah, I love when people ask questions, and that's just helping people out and advocating is my thing. It's obviously what you do but..

Tanner: I want to say we tell that story about you a lot, Rhandyl, that came, he was just so nervous to get out and talk to you, but y'all's relationship has been so good for Kami. And I'm just very grateful for y'all. She has someone to bounce things off of and to go through this life together. It's just awesome. And I highly recommend to anyone listening to this that you get involved in a group that is in a similar situation that you can talk to and you can, tell the crap to each other that you go through because a lot of it is just crap and nobody else understands it, but you ladies have been so impactful on our life and I don't even really, I don't ever talk to y'all, but you're impactful on my life.

Secondly, I wanted to say that I don't, I listened to a ton of podcasts and I listened to zero women podcasts, women hosted podcasts, except for y'all's. I've gotten to, I've listened to y'all's and I really have enjoyed it. And it's cool to hear. What y'all are doing with this podcast and trying to reach people. And it's just awesome. Thank you for doing it. Thank you for just y'all's openness and honesty. And it's just great. And I'm so honored to be able to be here and we both are. 

Rhandyl: That's such a great compliment. 

Deonna: Yeah, that is. Maybe you can listen to this because I sound like a man right now, but I, no it makes us feel good when dads can listen because, and dads have such a different perspective, really my perspective on this compared to my husband's, even though we're doing the same thing, it's just totally different We're hoping we can start talking to more dads because I think that's just like a different perspective that we need. So real quick before we get started, tell us about y'all's family, 

Tanner: So Kami and I are high school sweethearts. We went to Lubbock Christian High School together and started dating when we were sophomores. We got married when we were sophomores in college at Abilene Christian University. And so we've been married this year in December. It'll be 20 years. We have gone through a lot of things. We, so we got married. I was about to turn 20 and she had just turned 20. And so we didn't want to have kids right out of the gate. We ended up Waiting several years and then I guess we waited about five years before we started trying and then we had trouble getting pregnant and I had low sperm count, had to get that corrected. Kami had endometriosis, had to get that fixed and anyway, it took us another five almost six years before we did get pregnant. 

Rhandyl: Oh, man. Oh, wow. I did not realize that. Yeah, 

Tanner: So we were married 11 years before we had our first, Finley, and it's funny, I was in finance and accounting, and Kami is a speech pathologist, and we both quit our jobs and went out and worked at the Texas Boys Ranch, and we were house parents there, and so we had 

Kami: So that's a children's home. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a children's home. Yeah. 

Rhandyl: When was this? 

Tanner: 2015. Okay. So we were, we were full time house parents. We lived in a cottage. We had 25 kids come through our cottage in the 10 months. We were there. Wow. It's the hardest job I've ever had emotionally physically for sure, but it took our minds off of trying to get pregnant and we ended up getting pregnant on our own. So, so we ended up we decided we didn't want to have our firstborn out there. And so we ended up moving away from there and had our first, daughter, Finley, who's now seven. Remind me the details of.. 

Kami: Then we had two miscarriages a year later, we had a miscarriage and then the following year we had a miscarriage and then we had Gracie. And Gracie is baby just turned four. She just turned four. And then the twins are two and a half. 

Tanner: Yeah. So we have four daughters. 

Deonna: So you had a baby in 2020. And then you had the twins in 2021. Okay. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. 

Tanner: Yeah. So Gracie, our 4-year-old, she was born the day we were leaving the hospital is the day that they said no, nobody can come in. They closed it for COVID. She was born on March 18th. That's weird. 

Kami: They were like, if you have a C section, he can't go back with you. And I was like, all right not going to have that. Let's not do that. So it was just like a, it was weird. They were like, you need to get in and get out and get home kind of deal. So that was our second. And then I'm like, who has kids during COVID? Oh we had three. 

Deonna: So I feel like a lot of people, it was crazy. I would not recommend being in the hospital in 2020. That's what we did. And no, not fun. So I'm glad that timing worked out with y'all. 

Tanner: Yeah. And she was so Gracie was. And, we'd had so much trouble getting pregnant and then two miscarriages and then she's nine months old and we're going on a trip and came. He's guess what? 

Kami: That's crazy. We're going to have three. The joke's on me. We're going to have four. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. The twins were a complete shock. Yeah. They were a big surprise. Yeah. 

Rhandyl: That's awesome. Okay. So tell us about the time leading up to finding out that your kid had a medical diagnosis or issue? Was it in utero?

Kami: When I was pregnant we found out we were having identical twins. And so I was already high risk for that, and also I was a geriatric mom cause I was 37 and so…

Deonna: You and I are the old farts in the friend group.

Kami: Right? Yes. So I was monitored on a regular basis for that. Callie always measured 16 percent smaller. And with that was okay cause that was her normal trajectory. So that was fine, but they did not want it going to 25. They didn't want that to be as big of a difference because they can get twin to twin transfusion. So Callie, still measuring 16%, smaller the whole time great. I get to 32 weeks and my doctor's like, all right, we need to start thinking about what if they come early because I'm concerned about this.

And we start preparing and I'm like, I'm going to go as far as I can. I'm going to go as far as I can. And she was like, okay but every week, as I was getting measured, Callie did start to get a little bit more. I think the last time they measured her, she was 22 percent smaller. And that was when I was 33 weeks pregnant.

And they were like, that's it. That's it. They're coming out. So we went to the doctor. She's I'm taking them tomorrow. Yeah, so we went home, packed up, got our other two kids situated, and then went to the hospital. So that's all we knew everything else looked good. All the other scans looked great, organs were fine. So we go deliver the twins. So Callie is our medically complex child. She's baby A. She comes out first, and then Chloe, our typical twin, she comes out second, but 37 minutes later, she apparently if you have a twin, the other one like spreads and fills up that gap. And so they can be very difficult to get out. So that's why Chloe was 37 minutes later. She was like, that's a long time. She's I can breathe more. So they get her out and Chloe, baby B has to be intubated at birth. Our medically complex kid comes out, she’s fine, he’s doing great. Callie's doing really well, has her little NICU team. And then Chloe goes to her own team and they go back to the NICU and everything seems fine. Everybody's doing okay. They're tiny. Callie weighed three pounds, six ounces and Chloe, her twin weighed four pounds, three ounces. And so as far as we knew, everything was good. 

So things were going well for Chloe. Chloe went home at three weeks. And then, but with Callie, we started noticing things the first week of her life. So she wasn't swallowing, so she had a laryngoscopy done, and they noticed that she had laryngomalacia, which is a floppy larynx. So they do a little procedure, open that up, you can see her vocal cords, things are a lot better. We thought, oh, that, that took care of it. Yeah. Then she had a modified barium swallow done and aspirated all of that. It was almost like her epiglottis wasn't even triggered. Watching it all. 

Rhandyl: And as a speech language pathologist, you like know too much. 

Deonna: I'm like, what's your epiglottis? I don't know. 

Kami: It's what covers it so it doesn't get in your larynx, the deal, the scary thing about it, you're just watching and it was like, It just all, but I feel like you don't have to be a speech pathologist to see, you're like, that all just went in your lungs.

Yeah. What's immediately you know that's not acceptable. That was the worst thing I feel like I saw. It was horrible. And so after that, they put in an NG tube so she could get food that way. So she never took anything by mouth ever. So she got an NG tube that went through her nose, down to her stomach, and she started getting fed that way. Still wasn't doing great. 

And her biggest red flags were that her eyes were always facing like towards the ceiling. So when she was laying in bed, she wasn't looking around at you. She was like looking up at the sky and if you held her, it's like her eyes would be up towards the ceiling. They were fixed up. So we were like, that's like our first red flag, something neurologically was going on. And they would come down, but it would be like, what? That's not normal. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tanner: And then also like in the NICU, this was the first time we had our first two girls were typical. They just went home. We didn't do NICU. And so when you're in the NICU, you've got all these sounds going on, these monitors beeping all around you and your kids and then everybody else's. And she would do this thing where like her her heart rate would dip. So she would be, it's it was like, her heart rate was always fast. It was like 180 beats per minute at that time. 

Kami: Up to 200. 

Tanner: Yeah. Up to 200. And that was like her normal, her baseline. But then she would drop to 40. 

Rhandyl: She would brady. Yeah. 

Tanner: She would brady. She would brady. 

Deonna: That's like my least favorite word in the entire word. 

Kami: Yes. She would. Oh my God. And her oxygen would be affected.

Tanner: But the thing is she would do it like 20 times per shift we'd come in and they'd be like, oh, she only had 20 episodes this time. And we're like, what? Great. What does that mean? 

Kami: So her heart rate would drop and her O2 sats would drop and they had to get a catheter and put it down her throat in suction. So she was essentially drowning in her own secretions, but nobody. Right. Could figure out what was going on because they had a new day nurse and a new night nurse every day. And so the stuff she was doing was so abnormal. They were thinking, let's try to get her to get out of it herself. Maybe she just needs to grow. Sometimes they can just start to, develop stuff and get out of it themselves. Hers never happened unless she suctioned her. She was drowning in her own secretions every time. And so that happened for a long time. And so the normal thing for her is that she had to be suctioned all the time and her oxygen would drop and her heart rate would drop. Yeah. And then we try to bring her back to life. So she tried to die, 20 times a shift. And then after that, they decided to put a G tube in at two months. And that was really a good thing for her because she started growing after that.

But, while they're suctioning her during all of this, she's not sleeping. She's like getting interrupted. She's just trying to survive. So she's tiny, not gaining very much weight. . They did EEGs and EKGs, they were nervous about her having seizures and her heart rate was so crazy, they were like, that's not good. , by the end of it, I wanna say the end of two months, they did a deeper MRI and they noticed that cranial nerve nine and 10 on the left side of her brain weren't present. And so we were like, what does that mean? Yeah. So her glossopharyngeal and the vagus nerve. weren't present. And that deals a lot with swallowing. . Yeah. So many things that…

Deonna: The Vagus nervous, super important. 

Kami: It's a massive one. And so she didn't fit any syndrome. She didn't fit any genetic disorder. All her genetic stuff came back normal. Just, we couldn't get an answer and to this day. We still don't know. So since then she's been diagnosed with CP, and that fits her. If you look at her today, she, definitely has a neurological motor impairment. 

Rhandyl: How old is she now? How old are the twins?

Kami: They're two and a half. Okay. Yeah.

Deonna: Man, that went by fast. That's crazy. 

Kami: She requires suctioning quite a bit still. There's no swallowing function that we notice. 

Rhandyl: Now, like we talked about earlier, she has a trach. How old was she when she got her trach? 

Kami: She got her trach at three months.

Rhandyl: And is that when they decided to do that was because of all the suctioning and just because of the swallow study? 

Kami: Yes. So let me backtrack just a little bit at two and a half months, Callie was gonna come home with all of her episodes where, her heart rate dropped and her O2 sets dropped and we had to suction her and bring her back to the life yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. She was gonna come home like that. Her sister, her identical twin got RSV and had to go to the PICU. Callie still qualified to be in the NICU, so she stayed there. Chloe actually ended up coding for three minutes and then they brought her back to life and she went through, she was on the oscillating ventilator. Oh my goodness. Yeah. All the things I don't know. 

Tanner: They were talking about at one point they were talking about having to fly her to Houston 

Rhandyl: And this is from RSV? How old at that time? 

Kami: Two and a half months, two and a half months. So literally the next day Callie was supposed to come home in the hospital.

Deonna: That's the weirdest part of y'all's story is that you're healthy twin coded and had all these problems. And then your other one, it's like a high maintenance, but hasn't coded or anything, right? Like to this day? That’s so weird. 

Kami: So that's the crazy thing of all of this. Callie was gonna come home without the trach. Chloe got better. Yeah, she's great. 

Tanner: We were like insistent, like we have got to get Callie home. She's gonna do so much better when she's home with her sisters and with her parents and yeah she's not in this incubator in the NICU, and we were just like we got to get her home. And we just, we were clueless as to what that meant, but the goal was if we can get her below 20 episodes a day, she can go home and we can deal with that. And yeah but this Dr. was like..

Kami: No, this is not acceptable. 

Tanner: And at the time I was so mad, I was just mad. I was like, oh, we want to go home. And I'm so glad she made a stay because.. 

Kami: Well then they started talking about the trach and then they put in the trach, and the trach ultimately saved Callie's life, period. 

Deonna: So they were gonna send her home without a trach and she was having to be suctioned that much? That blows my mind. Yeah. Yeah. I am glad y'all got the trach. 'Cause when you suction with a trach, it's so much easier and less, less traumatic, hard on them. Yeah. It's not as bad, but. Oh my gosh. 

Kami: I can't even imagine her not having a trach. Now I'm like, I want the trach forever, as long as she doesn't swallow that scary. 

Deonna: When we were supposed to go home, like a similar type of thing happened. We were supposed to go home. We were dying to go home. She was having these similar brady episodes and we were just like, she'll be all right. Then she Brady'd right before we were supposed to go home from Houston and we were like, oh my gosh. So she had to get the pacemaker and the whole thing and we had to stay way longer. But it was okay but you just want to go home. I mean, You're so sick of going up there and living there. 

Kami: Yeah, I get in it, you just can't see anything. But in hindsight Chloe saved Callie's life because, yeah, she had to stay and get the trach in that completely saved her life. Yeah. So crazy. Oh my gosh. Funny how this side of heaven, we may not know all the answers, but God is I have a plan. You will not understand it. Yeah. 

Rhandyl: Okay, so walk us through what those first few moments or days were like after receiving the diagnosis or after the event occurred.

Tanner: Yeah, so the whole time, like Kami said before, we just didn't know what was wrong. And that was really hard. The director of the NICU, was like, It was so hard for her to not be able to give us an answer. What is going on? And like as someone who's never been in this world, you're just, you just don't know what you don't know. And it felt like at any moment she's just going to get better and we're going to go home. It's going to, it's going to, she's going to get better. That was our kind of what we said all the time. If somebody asked how she's doing, oh she's doing okay, but she's going to get better. And, she was in the NICU for 107 days. And over that time we began to realize more and more like she may not get better and it's okay. If she, if this is who she is, like that's okay. That's just who she is. And we're going to have a new different life, but we're going to get home.

But I think the hardest thing was just getting to that realization because before you have a kid with special needs, you just don't think that you just think we're just going to have this normal life and everything's going to be fine and dandy. 

Rhandyl: I don't know. I've you saying that it just takes me back to the like same scenario. So yeah, I totally get that feeling of we can manage this, like just let us go home. But I'm so thankful. There's so many scenarios that we were reminded that we weren't ready to come home.

Deonna: I relate to that comment too because like with us you do want to go home and everything, but they know what's best for you and it's so hard trusting that. And we had a little different scenario because Allie was one way and then she changed obviously, we had someone sit us down and it's hard cause you're holding on hope for so long for yourself and for other people like, Oh, she's going to be all right.

She's going to get better. Yeah. I did the same thing. I was like, Oh yeah, like she has some sort of weird spinal infection. She'll be better. Then when they sit us down and tell us, no, like she's not getting better. When the hope died, it was just like, Oh my gosh, this is what happens to like other people, not me.

Like this can't happen to me, so that was like really hard. Acknowledging oh, this is our reality now, whether other people accept it or not, you have to accept it, and that sucks I, I remember that feeling so bad. Yeah. 

Tanner: It's almost like you're mourning a death, in a way.

Kami: You are. Oh, for sure. You are mourning the child you thought you were going to bring home. Yeah. Yeah. And the life you thought you were going to have, and my twins relationships. I was like, they're going to have their own language. You just make this whole thing up in your brain on how it's supposed to be.

Deonna: Yeah. It's definitely. And they probably will have this amazing bond in a way. It's just not going to be like what y'all envisioned. It's hard though. It is like a death I've experienced actual death and then this, and it's the exact same feeling. So yeah, it's not fun. Okay. So what do the doctors tell you about Callie for her future? Do they have any clue or is there any prognosis at all or is it just all up in the air still?

Tanner: A lot of feedback we've gotten, probably earlier on was that she can't swallow. Yeah. And hopefully one day, whenever she's old enough to be able to take instruction from a speech pathologist, she will be able to learn to swallow through instruction. Yeah. And that's I guess the best case scenario, but also developmentally, you know, for the rest of her body, we just don't know. Like it's just hurry up and wait and see what she can do and..

Kami: Yeah, I know, I feel like the last prognosis we got neurologically is that her brain is growing slower than her skull. So if you measure her skull, it's growing appropriately. And then recently we just realized her brain is smaller than it should be. And so there's spinal fluid filling in the gap. Yeah. And so we were like what does that mean? So honestly, we don't know. We don't know. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tanner: So the diagnosis was that at some point she was without oxygen and that caused brain damage.

Kami: Which we don't know if that's in utero or in the NICU. 

Tanner: And yeah. And so she, cerebral palsy is such a broad term. It means damage, without oxygen at some point. Every person that has cerebral palsy is different and she will develop and learn on her own. And, we don't know what that looks like.

Kami: So now the doctors don't tell us anything. They say, I have not seen anybody like this. I don't know. Just, let's see how it goes. Yeah. We'll see how she makes progress. And she does continue to make. Little tiny things of progress on a regular basis, which is a huge deal for us. 

Rhandyl: Yeah, we're almost year eight and we see these little, not little, like to us, but to most people they seem little, but they're huge. 

Deonna: So how do you guys handle the stress of all of this and how did your family members handle this as well? Because it just, it ripples out so big. Like I had no idea until I was going through this how big of an effect it had on everyone around me. 

Rhandyl: And not to mention you guys had toddlers when this was happening. 

Kami: So we're very close to our parents both our parents live in Lubbock Yeah my mom had just retired when I had the twins and Tina's mom wasn't working She helps with the kids as well.

And so our moms Legit co parented with us and our dads did as well when they were all They co parented with us that first like solid year. My dad retired and It they all just co parent with us right now It's like they are just always available to pick up a kid and they had When we were in the NICU, Finley started kindergarten that year.

We were in the NICU with Kelly for three months. And so they had our newborn baby that we had. And then Gracie at the time was two. So they had, them two together all the time. Thankfully Finley was in school, but our parents, I would say are the reason that we are still standing. Not to mention God, obviously God was like the one that was just, they were praying over us on a regular basis, and so we're our friends, but, I think that is the what got us through.

Deonna: And your mom's a nurse, right? 

Kami: She is. 

Deonna: Yeah, so she probably wasn't as intimidated by it as like your typical parent. 

Kami: She definitely was, like, I think they were all shook by it. They were like, what?

Deonna: Oh, it didn't help. The nursing did not help. 

Kami: It probably didn't help because she knew too much.

Deonna: She knew too much. Yeah, that is true. Sometimes that's the way it is.

Kami: But she handled it like a champ. They all did. They were rocks. They were. Yeah. 

Rhandyl: Your village is a must have, yeah. 

Tanner: I'll say that I coped with it. I'm still coping with it in all of the wrong ways. Especially living in the NICU, we started eating fast food. I was in the best shape of my adult life right before we had the twins. I'd just done 75 hard. I was in, I was fit. Oh man.  And then, we, and then we, all we could eat was junk food at the hospital. Yep. Yeah. For four months. And then, I think that I started drinking alcohol. I think I really coped with it by drinking alcohol. I mean I drank a lot. This last year, especially, and which is horrible. But I rationalized it to myself, and I think I listened to one of your podcasts where someone was talking about getting counseling and help that way. We haven't done that and we really need to, because we somehow have gotten through it without that.

I don't know how, but I think we have a very strong marriage, which helps and it's gotten stronger because of this. It's one of the good things that's come out of it, but I'm still coping with it to this day. And I need to seek help and y'all's podcast really did inspire me to do that. I'm, I've never done counseling, just personal counseling. And, that's on my to do list. Yeah. I just haven't executed yet. 

Kami: If you talk about self care, we're going to be the last ones to take care of ourselves. Yeah. When did For sure. Rhandyl, you said you didn't start going to counseling till, way, way later.

Rhandyl: Yeah. I didn't start until like over this last year. So Remi was maybe seven. And I'm honestly on a hiatus from it right now. And I can totally relate to the alcohol thing. I remember on multiple occasions , especially when we were in Houston, and I was there a lot by myself because my husband was still there. Working, and he would come and go every other week, but I just remember , all I had for supper was a bar of chocolate and a whole bottle of wine. That was just how I was, getting through being able to sleep and all of that. But, and I'm still very much a wino and I use that in the wrong way sometimes. And so I can totally relate with you Tanner on, that. 

Deonna: It's hard to, it's really hard to start counseling though. I wasn't gonna do it because I'm very like, I am independent, I'm tough, I don't need anything, and when I started it , I did one week and then my brother died the next week, and then , I had to switch to a different counselor and I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to re explain my whole life with my daughter plus this new thing.

And I mean, it is really hard. Like at first it is hard because you do have to tell them all these things that you are trying to suppress and then you have to bring them all back up and there's times you leave and you're like, I don't feel better because I just had to talk about all that, but over time it does make a difference.

But even though I recommend it all the time, I'll never act like it's easy to start. It's not. It's tough. So for sure. But I do think it is good having that person outside of your situation, like a third party impartial person to hear your problems because there's things I don't even tell my husband cause I'm like, I don't want him to worry about this thing that I'm thinking about.

So I'll just tell this random person, Yeah. Because sometimes Dane will be like, Oh my gosh, I hadn't even thought of that until you told me that. And now I'm upset over that, so it's, it's good, but not easy. I will say that. 

Tanner: I want to say about just from the, my perspective as a husband, Kami is juggling so many balls all the time. She takes care of our whole household and the girls and everything, and she's cleaning and she's. Dealing with, it's just a full time job. Just keeping up with the nurses and all the therapy and scheduling. And she does such a good job at that. And she doesn't feel like she can take the time for herself. Yeah. 

And even if I tell her that, like she just sees all the stuff she has to do for everyone else. She's very selfless. And, at the same time, I'm like,, you can't talk to me about these things that. There's some things that you can talk to me about that, we just go through as a couple, but there's other things that are like, you need to talk to somebody else that can help you with your feelings because I just want to solve your problem. Typical guy. And I just want to, if you're having trouble with this let's figure out how to get it done. And that is not what she needs to hear oftentimes. And I need to do better at that also. But I'm just saying, I think that for both of us, it would help to be able to talk to that person. So I'm actually encouraging you to get counseling right now. 

Deonna: Hey, and we always are plugging our friend Deonna Dawson, she has Springs Therapy here in Lubbock and she is so great. And she's also a parent of a disabled kid. So I like her as far as that too, cause she understands our life.

Kami: To answer like something else that we're going to talk about but like how important it is to have your group of people. I would definitely say, unfortunately, your friend group changes a little bit through the whole thing. You don't want it to, but having friends that know the life you live like changes your world and I wasn't seeking friends.

I didn’t, I don't want any other friends, I was like, I have my friends. I like my friends, and I it's too much effort for me to go look for friends. And also on the internet, it’s quite different. Like the community, that's almost too much for me to see all the trach mom stuff online. Oh yeah, it can go negative.

It just is really hard for me. And so I wasn't trying to find a group. God totally brought y'all in my life to change so many bad things we were going through. To have somebody to relate to the nursing thing. When he talked about the nurses y'all that has been the hardest adjustment for me. Harder than yeah, Callie's diagnosis all of her stuff. Having a nurse in your house 24/7. Which at the beginning, you know that took me a solid year to get used to, oh for sure.

I and we've had amazing nurses and our nurse right now, Callie likes her more than me. There's no doubt about it. She's the greatest human being there ever was. Like, loves she's, you have a really good one. She, I have the best one. Jamie's the best gift we've ever been given, and she loves my kid, and bless her heart for seeing me through that first year of adjusting to her being in our house, 

But I feel like though, there's just so much trauma, and then so much other random stuff that we have to deal with. Try to live through that. We've never been given a path like yeah, this is what I did, this is the home health agency. I use these supplies..We were getting all like adult supplies for Callie's trach initially like there's just so many but we had no clue it's just Having your community and finding your people will completely change your life. And so I can, I feel like I get a lot of counseling from y'all. It's just meeting or texting. It helps me a lot. 

Rhandyl: Oh yeah, just being able to, yeah, people that get it, actually get it. 

Deonna: I feel like I don't give good counseling. I just rile y'all up. I feel like I tell y'all stuff and then y'all are like getting mad and it's not constructive.

Kami: You're the pumper upper, right? 

Deonna: I'm the one, yeah, I'm the one who's like telling you all my anger issues. Yeah. Oh my gosh. 

Tanner: It's funny, like when we walked into Rhandyl's house just now, we saw some clean sterilized trachs on the table. Yeah. And it's just you just. 

Kami: It's our life. Normal. It's just how we look. 

Tanner: Must have just got those cleaned. 

Kami: I'm like, Oh look, Remi's are bigger. Look, this is like how Callie's are going to look when she gets older. 

Deonna: That's what, last night we were at a baseball game and Remi was there and her vent went off and my son was like, Oh my gosh that's so weird hearing like another kid's vent go off. It was just strange. It was funny. Yeah. It was. 

Rhandyl: I heard battery. I heard Allie's battery. The beep go off on her vent and I'm like, we literally just unplugged her vent. Like I'm thinking about Remi's vent. I'm like, her battery shouldn't be going dead yet. I'm like, Oh wait, there's another kid on the vent.

Deonna: It was us irresponsible people letting her vent try to go half dead on us out there. Yeah. 

Rhandyl: But you guys might've answered this already, but what are some of the hardest parts about caring for Callie?

Kami: I think for me it's difficult. I can talk about mom guilt all day long. One of the hardest things for me is making sure I'm spending quality time with all of my kids. And I do struggle with that a lot. If Callie has her nurse and I need to be doing something else with the other kids or running errands or whatever, I got to do it when we have a nurse because we don't have a day nurse on the weekends.

And so I feel like a lot of times I will not have enough time with somebody. Callie or Finley, Gracie or Chloe, any of them. Like I just, the trying to juggle good quality time amongst all of my kids is a real struggle for me. And that's why I don't think about making time for all the other like counseling or other, we're barely making it as we are.

And so, that is maybe one of my biggest struggle, not to mention having somebody in your house 24 seven that will always be, I'm so much better two years in than I was a year in. Yeah. That's a very hard adjustment. And I think when a nurse calls in or something, my cortisol levels skyrocket and I need to take a deep breath and just like, figure like, we're going to figure it out.

It's going to be fine. Even though I'm supposed to be taking this kid here and do this it's going to be fine. I think that's like very real for me on a daily basis. And that's probably my biggest struggle that I deal with. What do you think? 

Tanner: For me, two things really stand out. One is communication with Callie. And two is treating her like a normal kid, like another kid of mine. And I think they go hand in my struggle because she can't communicate. She can't talk because of the trach but you know I get so frustrated with her sometimes. She'll like do this thing where she just rears her head back and just flips back and I'm trying to make her sit up and I know she can sit up for extended periods of time because she doesn't baby sharks on. But if there's something's on she doesn't want to watch, or if there's something she does that's how she communicates and I get so mad. She protests and hurts herself. And it's so hard for me to not just be like, I don't know. I just treat her like a, like another kid.

Yeah. But I know in the back of my head,, I know this is the only way she can communicate. Yeah, and yet it's so frustrating to me and I want her to be able to tell me in a different way that doesn't hurt herself. So that's really tough for me right now.

Deonna: You struggle with that too, right Rhandyl? With Remi? 

Rhandyl: Yeah, I mean from the beginning I remember even as an infant when she was clamping down and we were having to bag her constantly in the hospital and then even when we got home, one of my major concerns, which is silly, but I was, picturing her growing up and I'm like, she's going to be a total brat if I let her act up because anytime she cries or she would just literally die and we'd have to bring her back to life. And I'm like, yeah how am I not supposed to ever make her mad? Do I never discipline her? Do I never? This, yeah, horrible little turd, if I don't. 

But as she's gotten older her communication is better. In our case, she understands right and wrong, for sure. And she now has a communication device. She's nonverbal, she does say words every once in a while, it has to be her idea. But her main form of communication is through her device. And that has helped a lot, I believe, with behaviors. She goes, through phases. Like right now, she's being a bully at school, crawling across the classroom and pulling Her classmate's hair and laughing and thinking it's funny.

She does the same thing to brother at home. And part of me, it's it's frustrating, but it's Oh, that's, it's awesome too. She's a good kid. But it's oh my god. She's acting like a typical kid. But no, I get what you're saying with Just the communication, cause it's constant struggle because and even with the self harming thing for example, if she goes to pull out her trach, sometimes my first, knee jerk reaction is to just slap her little hand and tell her no.

Tanner: That's what I do every single time.

Rhandyl: And she just laughs and thinks it's hilarious and keeps doing it. It's like the attention is what she's trying to get. She's wanting, and so sometimes if I just ignore the behavior, she's actually just looking for attention in that way, and so then I'm like, okay she probably needs some positive attention, and so then I'm like, so it's always a battle, it's, I know what you're saying.

Deonna: Well and, I feel like the world is not ready for people to discipline their disabled kids. I have gotten onto Allie out in public before, and people are like, Oh my gosh! And I'm like, she's my kid. And Allie, cognitively, I know she's the same as her peers. So when she does something that I don't like, I know. And if I get onto her, I get such bad looks. But I think as a parent, you know your kid better than anybody and you have to do what you think is right to help that kid grow up to be their best self. But it is hard because when I get onto Allie, even sometimes my nurses are like, Oh my gosh, like she's like getting onto Allie.

This is so awkward and weird. And I'm like, she knows better. She knows she's doing something that's not great, but that is, that's like a whole different episode, I feel like, because it's so hard to determine how much you can discipline a kid like that even with Allie it's tough. Yeah I get that.

So what were some, if any, positive, unexpected, surprising moments that you guys have experienced throughout the last few years with Callie?

Kami: Mine is seeing my three kids love Callie unconditionally. My first, Finley, has such a good relationship with Callie. They all do but Finley is super attached to her and as soon as she gets home from school, runs in and hugs her and Callie's just as excited to see her. It's very mutual and That's sweet. They just love her so well. And I feel like if anybody's I don't know what to do with Callie, I'm like, watch Finley. Finley will teach you everything to do with Callie. She just loves her so well and I think that's probably been the biggest blessing for me to witness is just how they treat her like normal.

It's almost like she didn't even know she has. Yeah, disabilities. She truly treats her like normal and then she'll be like, oh, yeah, she has a hole in her neck when she meets somebody she's like I have three sisters one has a trach like that's her intro to meeting people and I'm Like 

Deonna: No one knows what a trach is.

Kami: We need to work on that. No, not most adults don't and so I'm like, yeah that's hilarious. So when she tells kids that, she's yes, and she just has this, you wipe her mouth with this rag because, that's what we do. And yeah, but I just love that she's, she just loves her so well and is just growing up learning to love someone like that.

And so when she does see other kids with disabilities or she doesn't even think anything, it's just normal. That's the biggest thing for me. And also, we just don't take little things for granted anymore. The fact that Callie does make little bitty milestones that's massive. Oh yeah. That's massive for our family and for her. I think that's just, she's put everything in perspective. For us 

Tanner: I think for me it's faith in humanity. My faith in humanity has strengthened just in a world where you know I spend a lot of time on X right now for some stupid reason There's just so much negativity in the world in Having gone through this situation.

 Especially our family, like that, Kami's already talked about, has just stepped up and loved our daughter. And that's really all you can ask for. And, but also there are so many other people in her life that like her nurses or therapists or doctors, who, like you have to have a special place in your heart to want to care for someone like Callie. And. I'm so grateful that there are people like that, and I didn't know that those people existed before this, and it's really shifted my paradigm about the types of people that are out there that have just such a good heart, and really want to make a difference in the lives of others, and it's awesome. I'm so grateful for them. 

Rhandyl: So what would you guys tell a parent whose child may be going through getting a difficult diagnosis?

Kami: For me, throw the milestones out the window. Get rid of them. If you have somebody in your life that just had a kid and they are going through the same, quit watching their stuff. I mean, If you can, you're a better person than me, but I had identical twins and I, I cannot even compare the, because they're so very different.

Yeah. And so if you can throw the milestones out the window and you just go with what your kid is doing when they're doing it, that's enough. That's good enough. And I feel like for me, there has been so much beauty in our hardship and God has refined me and changed me really us so much more than we would have been had we not gone through this. I don't want to be who I used to be. I don't even remember that girl. Yeah. Oh, the life she lived. But, selfish. Yeah. Do y'all ever look at photos. So selfish. 

Deonna: Do y'all ever look at photos of yourself from before this and being like, oh my gosh, I don't even. Who is that? Know those people. They're dead to me. What a carefree life. That's how I feel. Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. 

Kami: That's how I feel too. I think that, yeah. This changes you. It can change you in a negative way, but also God can bring so much beauty from this and so much goodness and change you in ways I have been very uncomfortable for the last two and a half years, and it's been good for me to be uncomfortable, unfortunately.

It's been good and molding and shaping who I'm supposed to be, and I want to be a light in this dark world. And if somebody is going through this, and I would love for them to have my name and number and just be somebody that they could call on or same for my husband. He's an open book and we're there.

I think that find your community.. That will get you through because a lot of your friends want to be there, but they just don't know how to be there. They haven't lived it. They don't know. And that's not their fault. , I wouldn't wish this on anybody, it's a different life.

Tanner: I would say that, it's not by chance that one of the tenets of Christianity is God is love. Love is everything. And our kids need love, our kids with special needs disabilities, they especially need love and they, as long as you give them love, they're going to be fine and grow so much.

And I've heard horror stories about homes that they've been in where their families would just. Treat their kid like an outcast and shun them or, you know, talk negatively and bad. And it just breaks my heart to hear those stories because they just want love and affection and just like any kid, any person, any human. Yeah, and so I think that was one thing I would share is just Share love. 

The other thing is don't be prideful. It is so easy to just say, I've got this. And it is so much easier to say, please help me. It's harder to say that it's so much easier for your life. If you just accept help people, like I mentioned earlier, people are out there that want to help. And if you let them help, it. Will help you so much. It will be so good for you personally, but also for your kid because they need that interaction with other people too. And it hurts sometimes because we feel like we're asking for so much all the time, but yet. You have to have it. You have to have a community. It's. 

Deonna: And there's so many people that are willing and wanting to help us, like even this weekend I was really sick, like all weekend and I just kept apologizing to all my nurses. I'm so sorry. I'm like having to, not be present because I'm so sick and they were just like this is what we're supposed to be doing for you We're supposed to be helping you but it just feels weird to me to allow somebody to help me So yeah, that's a good. 

Rhandyl: The fun guilt we have to have experienced.. but so If you guys could describe what Callie has taught you about yourself through this whole experience so far, what would it be?

Tanner: So earlier I did mention in a passing comment that we were selfish before this life. I really do think it's taught me how selfish I really was. We could, at the drop of a hat, just go out and do something, go to a movie or take our kids to dinner or whatever. And we can't do that now. And it just makes me realize how precious life is, how precious time is. And, when we are able to get out and do something, it just makes it sweeter 

Rhandyl: Kami and Tanner, we are so grateful to have you guys on and hear your stories and your perspective and you guys are amazing parents and your children are very loved. And we just thank you for sharing a bit of your life with us today. 

Kami: Thanks for having us. 

Tanner: Yep. Thank you.