Ep7: Supporting professional Property Managers to succeed — with Sharni Campbell

“A lot of the reasons that people get into a job are those tangible benefits that you see, like: it's a good salary, I can work Monday to Friday, or whatever it is. And then what keeps them there is the intangible stuff which for Property Managers. A lot of what I hear is how meaningful their work is, I think that's so important to acknowledge that.” 
— Sharni Campbell

This episode features practical tips from Sharni Campbell, SC People and Kate Sunol, PropertyMe on what does a professional, 'career' Property Manager how to match the right candidate to the the right team for long term success.

Reach out and continue the conversation...
Connect with Sharni Campbell — SC People
Connect with Kate Sunol — PropertyMe

Transcript

Kate:  Hi and welcome to Property Management & Me, a series from PropertyMe bringing quick tips and insights from across Australia and New Zealand that will make a difference to your everyday property management practice. I'm your host, Kate Sunall, and today I'm joined by Sharni Campbell from SC People to talk about the new culture of property managers that are establishing in our industry.

Welcome Sharni.

Sharni: Thank you, Kate. It is an absolute pleasure to be here with you, a new kind of version of our professional relationship that seems to be ever-evolving. So yeah, love, love that you've invited me on. 

Kate: It does. It does for a little bit of background. Sharni was actually one of my first hires when I was training to be an office manager and I think it was your first role in real estate as well.

Sharni: It was. I was reflecting on that last night that you were my absolute first boss in real estate and you trained me from my first day. So yeah, crazy that we've gone absolutely full circle. 

Kate: So far since then, which is nice. So Sharni is now a real estate recruitment expert, founding SC people on the principles of synergy, where people flourish in the right environment, but falter in the wrong environment.

It's super tempting to hire a candidate that has the most experience, but you're really passionate about making sure that it's the right fit. And there's a lot of things that go into that, which I love. I've actually seen that in action across your career. So it's, it's really nice to sort of see that come together. 

Can you share a little bit about what's happening in the recruitment landscape at the moment and what seems to be a mass exodus and a shortage of experience and skills? 

Sharni: Yeah, absolutely. So there's a few parts to this and I guess there's the broader recruitment market and employment market. In the world and the landscape that's changing rapidly with that for a lot of reasons, we all know, obviously chat GPTs, interrupting certain things, the economic climate is changing.

So there's a whole bunch of things that sort of come into play when we talk about that. The way that the market interacts now with employment, I guess, similar to property, things change so quickly and we're hyper-volatile, whereas we wouldn't have seen such a quick change to engagement. A few years ago, it definitely, we're, we're used to getting applicants straight away and interviews the next day and that sort of thing.

So that's slowed down a little bit just at the moment. Overall, I guess if we look at  sort of what happened in COVID and kind of the mania that was surrounding particularly property management recruitment at that time, that's shifted now. So there was a massive candidate short market. There was really aggressive hiring happening, I think across the country, I was hearing of massive salaries being offered, sign-on bonuses, all of those sorts of aggressive practices to get people on board. And we've seen a bit of a settling of that now in sort of late 2022, we were seeing this real feast and famine type of behavior where some companies were still quite aggressive and others were starting to look at consolidating, restructuring, some redundancy started to happen and that's continued a little bit into the beginning of this year. So I guess that's driven, um, a little bit of uncertainty in the market. And what I've actually seen with that is that there's, you know, a lot more people are starting to look at actually shifting around.

So as I say, at the beginning of this year, there was a lot of movement. A lot of kind of people moving to different companies for lots of different reasons. But what I found was a lot of it was driven by uncertainty or making the wrong decisions during that COVID mania period. So when we talk about EBP, employee value proposition, we kind of look at two things.

So we look at your tangible benefits, which is things like salary perks, so gym memberships, company cars, beanbags and table tennis tables in the kitchen and all that sort of stuff. And lots of companies were going to that as their draw card during COVID. But what we know is what keeps people in a role and what really, really drives that satisfaction is the more intangible things.

And these are harder to change. So there are things like company culture. Growth opportunities, and then challenging and meaningful work. So we've seen the effects at the beginning of this year on people who made changes for those tangible benefits and now starting to feel the pinch of, oh, hang on, the intangible things that actually don't align with me and I really need to move into a company where my values are more aligned and my career is really clear. 

Kate: So redirecting to the things that really matter. 

Sharni: Exactly. Yeah. 

Kate: Where are the majority of candidates coming from? Are they moving agencies? Are they new to industry? Are they new to work entirely? 

Sharni: So you sort of touched on this in the last question, which I didn't really go into too much around the mass exodus.

And I guess there's, there's two parts to that. So there's.  Are we attracting people from other industries? Are we attractive? And are we keeping people? Unfortunately, I'm continuing to see property managers leave the industry. And I mean, it's a challenging job. We all know that's a challenging industry, so it's not going to suit everybody.

And that's, that's always been the way. So it's natural to expect that. You know, it's not going to be for everybody, but I guess when I look at where candidates are coming from, we're still mainly seeing movement within the industry, new entrants that we're receiving. So people who are new to the industry will likely be more your junior staff members who are maybe looking at property as a career, which is awesome to see. 

We're seeing small movements from other industries. So anecdotally, I see a lot of people sort of coming out of banking with the banking industry having quite a shakeup. So coming out of banking and finance and looking at property as a potential career, because they do have, you know, some skills and knowledge crossover.

But unfortunately, there's, there's still not a big drove of people coming into the property industry and particularly property management as that sought-after desirable career path. So I think we still have a bit of work to do there to help people understand the offering of a career in property management and I think we'll talk about that a little bit later on, something that I'm quite passionate about, obviously, the opportunities that the property industry has, I think we could do a lot more to promote that to other industries as a potential career path.  

Kate: Yeah. And when we were talking a little bit earlier, we sort of had the chat about.  A lot of the messaging around this is quite negative that people are leaving the industry and there are things that we need to change and absolutely there are things that can always be improved but I really like that you mentioned that it's really creating those professional property managers that really are career property managers. They know their role. It's not temporary. Tell me what you're seeing in regards to that, as far as candidates and property managers. 

Sharni: Yeah, absolutely. So I think this is kind of a really awesome thing that's coming out of this bit of a refresh to the industry and a bit of turnover is that the people that are still here are super passionate and as they should be, the role that you do is super important.

It's incredibly interesting. You build great skills. So. Yeah, I guess the language around the role and what it means to be a professional property manager, and you are a professional, like you're dealing with people's biggest assets and you're managing portfolios of investments. So yeah, I'm really seeing this shift of language and messaging around the industry, which I think is super important.

So I guess if we look at. What that actually looks like in terms of what I look for in candidates as well, is it's a combination of hard and soft skills. So you want to have that knowledge. You want to really understand legislation and all of those things and then build on your soft skills. As well, so I use a tool called reach, which we've used together before.

So that helps me when I'm interviewing or speaking with a candidate to look at, are they more task-oriented or people-oriented? Are they more action-oriented or thinking-oriented? And then you'll generally come up with where someone's. Most comfortable. And that's going to give you an idea of what their strengths are.

And I think the industry, there's not one size fits all. And that's, that's something that I really want to get out there in terms of what being a professional property manager is like, of course you need to build your knowledge and understanding and continue to grow within the industry. But like with all roles and with all people, we're all different.

We're all very, very different. And so understanding where you're most comfortable naturally will give you an idea of your strengths. And then you can look at what might be a bit more of a blind spot for you. And that's where we look at diversifying our teams and growing emotional intelligence of our teams as well, which is where things like training come in to help people grow their emotional intelligence and grow some of those more human skills.

Kate: I absolutely love this tool. I have done it recently with Sharni before joining the PropertyMe team, been doing a lot of different things, wearing a lot of different hats for a while and sort of lost touch of what is my skill set versus what do I just have a lot of experience in and what makes me really happy and fulfilled in a role and even after 10 years in the industry, going back and doing that test was invaluable in making those decisions. So I could imagine from the hiring perspective, it would be a huge asset for managers to sort of go through that and understand from the get-go where those strengths are. 

Sharni: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the beauty of offices leveraging and leaning on technology a lot more. We've spoken about this before as well, Kate, but property management, you definitely need to be organized and be all over your admin, but it's not as much of an admin role anymore because we have so much automation with things like property me, so tools like reach really sort of tap into that, those human skills, as I was saying, which is so important to be able to build really solid relationships and move to a more consultative approach with your tenants and landlords, which I think really, that is really what encompasses a professional and a consultant.  

Kate: Yeah, definitely that relationship management, the project management of the things that are going on within your portfolio and just the ability to, to see things through and to create resolutions, essentially. 

So looking at both the new to job market or switching industries, how are you having conversations around property management or the real estate industry as a good career choice and how much is the rental crisis and media commentary affecting public perception of these roles? 

Sharni: Yeah, well, this is very timely. I know that there's been some, well, lots of press recently. I don't know whether it's just that. You know, my algorithms are showing me more, more than the average Joe, but yeah, I've, I've seen a lot of press and we go through cycles, of course, with the industry, I think it was, oh gosh, it was over six years ago now that I was working in a role within real estate and we were still seeing every now and then something would pop up and it would be quite frightening.

I think a big education piece that I work on when I'm recruiting in real estate is the different pathways and the different roles.  In real estate and what they all mean, this is still this perception in the marketplace. If you've not worked in the industry before that you, if you want to work in real estate, you're going to be a real estate agent and a real estate agent to a lot of people is a selling agent.

So, and then even then there's a lot of misconception around what that is and what a day looks like for a selling agent. So I do a lot of work with candidates in the front end to help them understand what the different pathways are, how diverse a career in property can be. And you're a great example. Of this Kate, cause you've had an incredibly diverse career and it's wonderful, like you've been able to sort of try so many different things and do so much.

You've got so many skills because when you go into real estate, you don't really have to stay. Down one path, you can apply your skills in so many different roles and so many different iterations of what your career can look like. So that is a big thing. Yeah. In terms of property management, I think just what I've touched on before, really helping people understand the beauty of the role, the type of relationships that you build, the work that you do for people, you are housing people,  you are helping people find a home and that's so special.

And then I guess on the landlord side. As I said, you're managing people's biggest assets. In some cases you're managing their retirement plan. So there's so much emotion and yes, so much meaningful work that goes in under the surface level, I'm a property manager, what does that mean? Like, what do you, what's your actual contribution in that role?

And once you sort of share that with people, yeah, that's when you start to find those people who are really passionate about the work that they do. Yeah, that's really nice to put it in that frame because it's not often what we hear, but they really are the underlying rewards for a lot of property managers that people don't see how rewarding parts of the role can be.

It really does. And that's sort of what I was saying earlier is like. A lot of the, well, and it's the same for every industry. It's not, it's not just us, but you know, a lot of the reasons that people get into a job are those tangible sort of benefits that you see, like, Oh yeah, it's a good salary. I can work Monday to Friday or, you know, whatever it is.

And then what keeps them there is the intangible stuff, which is for property managers, a lot of what I hear is how meaningful their work is. I think that's so important to acknowledge that to people. What are some initiatives that businesses are taking to support the long term sustainability as property management as a career?

Kate: You were speaking about intangible versus tangible benefits. Is there a shift now to start really encouraging those intangible benefits and recognizing how important they are? 

Sharni: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think you need to recognize, and I might get, I don't know, this might be polarizing, but I'm going to say it anyway,  we need to recognize the demographic of the industry as well. Like most, not all, absolutely not all, but you know, a lot of Property Managers are working parents and that flexibility, like true flexibility. I'm not talking about, oh yeah, you can work from home and then we monitor everything you do. And you know,  it doesn't really work that way. Like when we talk about, there's a whole other topic that I could go into around psychological safety and trust in the workplace, but giving flexibility, really what you're saying is there, we're giving you ownership and we trust you to do the right thing. We trust that you're a professional and you know what's best for your portfolio. Flexibility is a huge, huge topic. It's honestly the first thing most candidates ask me now, it used to be salary and they still ask that, we still all, you know, want to, want to earn decent money, of course, but overarching that really is, is that flexibility and that ability to know that, you know, if something happens, kids get sick or fall off the monkey bars at school, I can be there for my family and I don't have to you know, feel bad that or be worried that my employer thinks I'm doing a bad job because I'm great at what I do and I should be trusted to, to be there for my family and also deliver great results for my clients. So I think that's a big one. If we talk about sustainability, that's, that's huge. Aside from that, it's training,  just train, train, train.

I think empowering your staff to succeed is such, such a huge ingredient to the success and the sustainability of the industry. If you're not setting up your team to be successful, and I'm not just talking about, you know,  understanding legislation and all of those kinds of hard skills of the role, like teaching them emotional intelligence, building resilience, teaching communication skills, all of those things that, you know, if you have a hard day, you've got to have tough conversation to have being able to sort of get through that, or, you know, you've stuffed something up. I mean, we all stuff things up and there's lots of opportunities for it in properties. 

So, you know, sometimes things go wrong. I think giving your staff the skills and that personal insight. and resilience to be able to get through those difficult times and those tough lessons, you're only going to have better staff for it in the end, because I can guarantee you they won't do it again. 

Yeah. So I think investing in, investing in training, giving, you know, true trust and flexibility to your team, those seem to be the most crucial things right now for the sustainability of the property management industry. 

Kate: Yeah, great. A lot to think about and a lot to take from that.  If there is something,  sorry, talking about stuffing up. so much, Sharni, for coming in today. I haven't prepped you for this, so I'm sorry to throw you on the spot. So if there are three things you want people to be able to take away from this about how we can work together to move forward. What would they be? 

Sharni: Yeah. So I think number one, when you're thinking about your business and your team and why people would want to work for you, or even if you're in a role at the moment and you feel like this isn't quite right, start to look at what are those tangible and intangible benefits that you're getting and are they aligned to your longterm.

Vision for your business or for your career. I think that the second part is just our language and being so proud and recognizing the awesome work that property managers do and that crucial role that they play in people's lives. So really focusing on that language around being professionals, being consultants and consulting.

And then,  yeah, I guess the third one is. It's just also thinking about that self-awareness and emotional intelligence. So this is a lot of what I talk to. All of my candidates about often when I interview, it doesn't even really feel like an interview because really what I'm trying to do is just getting to the heart of, are there natural strengths?

And generally that leaves a clue for what they love the most. And generally if people are doing something that they're good at and love the most, they're going to be happy. They're going to be successful and it's going to give great results for everybody involved. So the business owners.  When you're going into an interview,  start to think of, think of things a little bit differently.

Like we're not trying to put people into a box. We're trying to find out what's the core of this person. What makes them unique? Where are they going to succeed? And if that's in your business, that's awesome. And if it's not, maybe you need to think about it's the best thing that this it's not a fit and it's not going to work.

So, those are my, those are my top three.  

Kate: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today. If people want to reach out to you, how can they get in touch? You're happy to take calls, questions, those sorts of things, if there's anything that interested them?

Sharni: Yeah, absolutely. So happy to take calls. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

You can look up our website, of course, scpeople.  My information is pretty much everywhere.  Having worked in real estate sales, I've got absolutely no, no qualms with putting my Phone number out there, so you can definitely find that, but yeah, I'm super active on LinkedIn. So if you've got questions or you want to, you know, continue the conversation around anything that I've spoken about today, you can probably tell by this point, I'm super passionate about the real estate industry.

So I'm always open, always open to a chat.