Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:00:00) - Hey, they're sober warriors. Welcome to Flat Pack Sober, your catalog of tips, tricks and tactics to design your sober life. I'm joined today by somebody I'm quite excited to be interviewing now. I'm guessing that you've probably had one of those really awful corporate presentations. You know, the one where the the speaker seems more interested in the slides and they are in view, and it's just covered in bullet points and it's monotonous and it's just one I just want to go to sleep. Well, today my guest is on a mission to end all of that. He works with subject matter experts to help them develop engaging and inspiring presentations, and he backs all of that up with quite a distinguished career. He was in the United States Air Force, and he also did a lot of corporate leadership training. But from my point of view, the most exciting thing of all is he is a bit of an expert in instructional design. So David, thank you so much for joining me today.
David Doerrier (00:00:58) - Well, thank you so much, Duncan, for inviting me to be a part of your podcast.
David Doerrier (00:01:02) - I am so excited to be here today.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:04) - So I will ask you the question that I ask everybody before we start, which is, you know, I care, right? You're familiar with Ikea.
David Doerrier (00:01:11) - Yes, yes.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:12) - So if I gave you some flat packed Ikea furniture and asked you to build it, how would you go about that? What would your process be for making Flatpack furniture?
David Doerrier (00:01:22) - That's a very interesting a great question. So how how would I go ahead and build it? Well, number one, I'd look at I need the instructions. And number two, I want to make sure I have everything I have. I have my space very safe. I have moved things out of the way depending on how large this thing is going to be. And I have things in different sections so I can find things very easily.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:48) - So you like to kind of spread it out, take a look at it, look at the manual, look at the stuff, absorb the information before you get started.
David Doerrier (00:01:56) - Exactly.
David Doerrier (00:01:57) - I need to I need to have, uh. Well, just it's kind of like how I design training. I need to have that objective or that end in mind. Even the space, if I'm going to be moving furniture, I'll clean up vacuum underneath the furniture because it's probably been a while. So very organized.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:16) - Is my definition of a good trainer a good trainer always move the furniture about a little bit. You know, you can't just have the room as they give it to you. But the reason why I like to get into this, right? I like to know how people learn things, how they absorb knowledge. And it would it be fair to say that you're kind of quite a reflective guy?
David Doerrier (00:02:34) - Yes, I would say very much, uh, in my head, very, very analytical. Yes.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:40) - So I like to start off by, you know, getting an idea of where the guests are coming from so that the listeners can sort of like, listen to your advice. And if they're very reflective, it will probably gel very well.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:51) - But if they're more that kind of the dynamo, you know, the one that likes to just get stuck in some of your some of the things you say might not gel so well with them. And rather than feel bad that they can't do it and of course, go back to drinking, uh, I think it's a good idea to, to, you know, to help people, to, um, kind of cut through the information. That's that's sort of my thing. And you probably recognize it all from the work of David Kolb. Let's get into it. Tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself.
David Doerrier (00:03:18) - I'm originally from Long Island, New York. The the, uh, fairly uneventful time as a kid growing up on the shores of the great South Bay, doing a lot of swimming and clamming and water skiing and going to the beach and having boats and so on and so forth. And about a year after high school, I knew that I didn't want to go to college. That was probably I love working, I like I don't learn well by reading, even though I said, I'm going to look at the instructions here.
David Doerrier (00:03:50) - You're looking at more pictures and I'm putting something together. I'm actually doing something, but just reading a book or studying something, if it's something that I'm actually going to be doing, then yes, I will be very interested in studying it, but I just I wanted to go to work. So I, I joined the Air Force a year after high school, and that started a career in air transportation, loading everything and anything that you can think of on military civilian aircraft. And I love working around planes. I love the size of them. I love the smells, the sounds and everything else. There is about working around planes. And I stayed active duty in the Air Force for ten years and was in the Air Force Reserves for 18 years. So that's a little bit of my background, but there's many other things that went on back there. But I I'll, I'll throw it back to you, Duncan, for your next question.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:04:49) - I'm guessing the that that PowerPoint slide, you know, the one with all the bullet points.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:04:54) - That's really not your kind of thing either.
Speaker 3 (00:04:56) - Right?
David Doerrier (00:04:57) - So where I came into, you know, eventually the Air Force offered me an opportunity to be a trainer. And that's where I started my training and development career 30 years ago. And, uh, learning the craft of designing, training and delivering training on a daily basis. And yes, working with death by PowerPoint and learning the do's and don'ts of working with PowerPoint.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:21) - You had a substance problem. Did you drink on the side?
David Doerrier (00:05:24) - Yeah. The drinking. Was I it a little bit? When I was in the service, and it just never really was a big problem. The substance abuse was a big problem from the time I was probably 17 years old when I was introduced to marijuana at that point, and then it became something that was a craving of mine constantly until just two ish years ago, and marijuana was my drug of choice. And when I was in rehab, people say, that's it. I learned that I was still experiencing some of the same things that other abusers, other addicts were were facing.
David Doerrier (00:06:05) - Was that finding that that hole or trying to fill that hole that's within us? And I learned from going to rehab that it's looking for that connection. And that's exactly what I was trying to fill. Was that connection because of childhood issues.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:25) - I think that's going to resonate with a lot of the listeners. So yeah, that's that's and so you mentioned rehab. Is that is that how you got sober?
David Doerrier (00:06:32) - Yes. I didn't I never thought I would go to rehab. My, my wife, uh, we don't have children, but I think that if I didn't go that I probably would not be married today. I didn't think that I could ever stop. I thought that there was no way that I could exist without smoking as much as I did on a daily basis. And then when Covid hit and now working from home 100% of the time, it just gave me more opportunities to use and use and use even that much more. And, uh, just one day I was going to therapy. I was I was in therapy for a number of years, and one of the things I wanted to get out of therapy was I wanted to stop smoking, but I knew that I wasn't going to stop, I just did.
David Doerrier (00:07:22) - I would go there stoned. I would leave there the therapy session and smoke out in my car before I went home. But there was just something one day that said, I gotta make a change. Something's gotta change. Because I really felt that if I continued going forward, not only was it hurting my health because of all the smoking and my lungs and so on, but I just knew that I could not be successful in anything going forward. And just one day it just snapped and I, I had to make a change.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:55) - So that resonates with me. It all works the same, doesn't it? So, uh, what was the the sort of the program in rehab? Was it 12 steps? Was it more therapeutic?
David Doerrier (00:08:05) - It was a combination of both. That was yes. There was a 12 step meeting that we would have on a daily basis. But, you know, one of the one of the things about it was how intensive it was from 8:00. Well, even before 8:00, you had medication in the morning that you had to be up for between a certain amount of time and then breakfast at, at, uh, 7:00.
David Doerrier (00:08:28) - And then the first meeting started at 8:00. So you were busy like all day. And that really helped me to just kind of change my mindset. And I really enjoyed it there. I, I don't I never want to go back and met some people that I'm still in touch with today, and we support each other, but it was just something that was just really snapped. That number one, I don't I don't want to go back. And number two, this is working. I'm learning something here and I it's sinking in.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:08:59) - You still go 2012 step meetings.
David Doerrier (00:09:01) - I don't I you know, maybe I'm unique but I, I still go to therapy. I still do practice. I'm a matter of fact, I go with my therapist this evening, but I haven't been to meetings. Yes. I just, I guess I just kind of found my own way. And one of the things that I found for me is staying busy, is staying productive, is not getting into some of my old habits.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:27) - Yeah, well, in that case, it's my it's my pleasure to offer you a little bit of distraction with this podcast. Keep you busy. That's, uh. That's brilliant. So, you know, do you think there are any kind of advantages to the way you stopped?
David Doerrier (00:09:42) - Advantages to the way I certainly going to rehab, uh, you know, to get into that intensive environment because, you know, there was that offer to, to go to some sort of a, uh, after hours thing at night and then come back home every day, or maybe go to something or a meeting during the day, because I was going to meetings before before I went to rehab, I was going to what is it not the not not, uh, it was with the substance abuse. I was going to some of those meetings, but I was using before I went to the meeting I was using after the meeting, so none of it ever stuck. So what was the question was, did it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:10:21) - Uh, yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:10:22) - Without any advantages to the kind of the intensive rehab program.
David Doerrier (00:10:26) - I would say it was. The intensive. You're in there with a bunch of people. Yes. All of us came from different walks of life. Many of them had lots of lots of stuff going on, living on the streets, going through divorces, losing their businesses, losing their jobs. I was very lucky. I was still married. I still had my job. My job was very supportive of of allowing me those 30 or so days to go to rehab to work through my issues. So I had a lot of support around me. But I learned that we all had that one thing in common, and that was looking for that connection. And, you know, maybe, you know, one guy is using drink, one guy is using harder substances. I was using marijuana. Somebody's sexual, you know, sexual addictions and gambling addictions. But what I learned was it all comes back to to that looking for connection.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:27) - When you started that program and you met the other people on it, did you sort of think, well, I'm not like them.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:32) - They're different to me. They and then was it almost kind of like a realization that you were all doing the same thing, maybe for different in different ways, but all for the same reason?
David Doerrier (00:11:45) - Yes. And matter of fact, my very first day there, I remember like it was yesterday, of sitting in the room with a that a large group of people that were out of, I guess it was their 12 step meeting at night, and I cried because I had told a couple of people because, you know, that that's the topic of conversation. What's your drug of choice? What's your drug of choice? What about you? What did you do? And so I said, I said, marijuana is it. And everybody kind of looked at me cross-eyed like that's it. And then I cried at this, this one meeting telling folks that that I've got all this stuff going on inside. Yes, marijuana was my only substance, but I feel that I still need this help, and I, I need I want to be a part of this family and everybody came up and gave me a hug and welcomed me into the group.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:32) - When I do group sessions, sometimes you do get people and they kind of like they hang around on the edge at the start and they sort of they're like, well, I'm different to all of you. They will have quite often said, well, I'm not like all these other people. Yeah. But you know, as you go through the process a little bit more, they start to realize that. Yeah.
David Doerrier (00:12:51) - I guess at first, yeah, maybe. I don't know what I was thinking. I knew I needed help, I knew I wanted to be a part of the program. I knew that I was going to absorb myself as much as possible into whatever was going to happen. And, uh, because I just wasn't going to fake my way through it, even though I saw people that were faking their way through it. Maybe mommy or daddy was paying for their time there, and they were just sleeping most of the time. But I put my whole heart into it, and maybe I don't know what I was.
David Doerrier (00:13:24) - Maybe I felt that, you know, I was only marijuana. It was only marijuana. Maybe I had that same attitude.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:31) - Yeah. I mean, a lot of people, not only a bit of wine, Duncan. It's serious. Is it? You know, it's. Yeah, actually, to be honest with you, I think there are some people out there who would say, well, it's only alcohol. It's not as bad as drugs, like marijuana.
Speaker 3 (00:13:47) - Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:48) - So if you were going to sort of say one thing that's kept you clean and sober, what would that be?
David Doerrier (00:13:54) - I think it's just something happened in the difference in my mindset that I think about it once in a while. I smell it once in a while from the distance at a concert or what have you. But I just don't have the desire. I think I've had some using dreams, some pretty intense using dreams. When I was in there, when I was at, uh, the rehab people were talking about, oh, I had a using dream last night, and I would wonder, wow, would I ever have a dream? It wasn't until I got home that I had some, you know, some that were so intense that you could smell it.
David Doerrier (00:14:30) - I could taste it. And to the point was, am I am I dreaming or is this real? Oh my God, did I really just smoke right now? So I think it's the it's just knowing that number one, I don't need it because I felt that I, I needed it to socialize. I needed it to feel a part of something. And now I've been I needed it even just to drive to the store. I had to smoke. And now I've done all of those things successfully and I don't need it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:01) - Yeah. So you basically you've changed your belief. You believed that you were dependent on it at one point, and now you no longer believe.
Speaker 3 (00:15:09) - That, right?
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:10) - Because it's obviously not true. Because you went to a concert and it was fun, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David Doerrier (00:15:15) - You smell it in the distance, but it just. Yeah, I, I'm afraid to use it. I'm, I'm afraid that will I become addicted again. But I, I feel that I have my willpower is so much.
David Doerrier (00:15:27) - Stronger now. Before it was such a routine, I. I worked in this room. Here was is my office. I've heard people say this before. Is that you kind of give you give yourself a reward. And so the way that I was doing it was I would be working through a project and I'd get myself to a certain point in the project, and I have myself set up that now I know what I'm going to do in the next step. So I'm going to take a break. I'm going to go into the bathroom and I'm going to smoke, and there you go. And now I come back and I start doing my work. I do another section of work. I've got it all set up and I've got to reward myself again. That's what I was doing all day, seven days a week.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:08) - And that's a lot. That is a lot. So have you made any other big changes in your life?
David Doerrier (00:16:14) - Well, number one, going to the gym, uh, being being more physical.
David Doerrier (00:16:18) - I had a gym membership in the past, but I find every excuse in the world I'd, I'd stay in bed. I would give an excuse to my trainers. Oh, my back is hurting again. So now, uh, I can't even think of a day within the past two years other than if I was really sick that I told them that I can't come in. I've been going pretty religiously three days a week, and I feel good.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:43) - You now have more energy, which makes it easier to exercise, which of course in turn gives you more energy, which is a great thing.
David Doerrier (00:16:52) - And the other thing, my head is a lot clearer. My short term memory is much better. It took a while for it to kind of for the cloudiness to kind of finally work its way out, but uh, yes, I feel my head feels a lot clearer.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:17:07) - Um, that I think is quite interesting in and of itself because I always, um, I was used to think the alcohol and marijuana, they made me more creative, but I certainly I produce more now.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:17:20) - Is that the same with yourself?
David Doerrier (00:17:23) - I agree, I felt the same way that by smoking marijuana it gave me this jolt of, uh, creativity. And yes, it did, but I think it also gave me, you know, the other problem that gave the least for my wife. She didn't know who was showing up on a daily basis, because when I smoked, I was usually I'm pretty quiet, but when I smoke, I'm, I'm out there. I'm I'm talking. You can't stop me. But I think that that creativity was like manic creativity. And I, I would get my I would volunteer for stuff, I would get involved with stuff. I would be so busy with things that I didn't need to be busy with. Uh, just it was just. I was just too intense.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:08) - Yeah. And there's a lot to be said for consistency and actually getting on with things. Whereas. Yeah, when I was drinking, you know, I did a lot of writing, but it wasn't very consistent.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:20) - And it's only since I stopped that I've actually had the discipline that increasing willpower that you mentioned, uh, that resonates very much, uh, you know, to actually get through stuff and finish it and put it out in the world.
David Doerrier (00:18:34) - Yeah, I, I still, I have a, a hard time focusing. That's why I have notepads here and I have to write everything down or else I'm going to forget it. Uh, but I think I have more focus now than I've had in the past.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:49) - So have you, um, have you found any products particularly helpful? Have you used any any devices, gadgets, apps, foods?
David Doerrier (00:18:59) - Well, trying to do more healthier foods, trying to walk on a more regular basis. I drink a nutritional shake in the mornings that helps to clean things out of my body. Um, I try to. I try to meditate a little bit more. I stay in contact with some of the guys that I was in the the rehab with. I've also gone back to the rehab center to speak, to be a speaker there, to talk about my story and that has and to mentor others while I was there.
David Doerrier (00:19:31) - So as far as other things, I, I don't want to say things are back to normal. Certainly I just, I like where I'm at. I like I like this new era because, uh, smoking was a part of my life from the time that I was introduced to it at 17 years old until just two years ago.
Speaker 3 (00:19:49) - Yeah, yeah.
David Doerrier (00:19:50) - I'm 66 now.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:19:52) - And you see, I think that's kind of interesting that you talk about a new era, whereas, you know, a lot of people use the word recovery and, you know, problem, what you call it, you know, I think it matters what you do rather than what you call it. But recovery kind of implies that you're getting back to where you were, but you're sort of talking in a way like you're somewhere new and somewhere exciting.
Speaker 3 (00:20:13) - Yeah, yeah.
David Doerrier (00:20:13) - It's like a rebirth.
Speaker 3 (00:20:15) - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:16) - I celebrate my birthday every year round about the start of June, the 7th of June. Uh, that's that's when I celebrate.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:24) - So, um, you kind of mentioned, uh, staying in touch with the. People from the rehab. Have you found any communities particularly useful?
David Doerrier (00:20:33) - Well, one community that I'm a part of is Toastmasters. This is kind of related to, and this is one thing that I spoke about while I was that at rehab, because they they had the 8:00 session every day was open to anybody that was there that wanted to facilitate any sort of discussion. And so I talked about Toastmasters, and it certainly it's not a it's not a 12 step program in any way, shape or form. However, it is a place where you can network with people. There are people that I network with at Toastmasters that have been to 12 step programs in the past, but I think one of the things the out, at least in my feeling it could give people an outlet to start speaking about some of the things that went on in their past. Because successful speakers talk about challenges they've had, and they talk about it in a way that other people can relate to it and take away things so they can use these things themselves.
David Doerrier (00:21:38) - So Toastmasters is a really safe place and a lot of great people, different conventions every year, competitions and speaking leadership to me, that I felt that that was a great place for folks to go.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:21:50) - I did I did five years in Toastmasters and uh, it was definitely not wasted time. And up until this point in time, I hadn't realized actually how useful it was because I stopped drinking whilst I was at Toastmasters. And I think there are there are a few things in that, you know, it's not a group of sober people, but it is a group of people who do stuff without drinking. And in your sense, I certainly never noticed anybody rolling up in Toastmasters meeting. So it's kind of a community that is away from from drugs and alcohol, isn't it? Right. Um, while people, whatever they go and do when they finished, it doesn't really matter what you do together as a kind of sober activity. And I think that's enormously important. But also, I don't think, you know, you can't tell your story unless you understand your story.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:45) - And so do you think there's kind of a therapeutic aspect of, of that getting up and talking about it?
David Doerrier (00:22:51) - I think that, yes, because you're going to have to dig inside of yourself to find that story. And this is a safe place to start exploring that story, starting to open up those gates, those doors, those blocks or whatever is inside of you to start getting that stuff out, talking about that childhood trauma, talking about when things were good, talk about when things got bad. What did you work through, how did you work through it? Why did you work through it? This is an opportunity to just practice writing it, practice speaking it, and, you know, working on that confidence. Maybe there's some folks that have have had these issues that maybe have lost confidence in themselves. This is an opportunity to get up in front and start building that confidence.
Speaker 3 (00:23:41) - So like I.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:43) - Did, you like blown my mind. I hadn't even thought about the confidence aspect of it. But yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:49) - No, I mean that's it. I'm signing everyone up. That's my recommendation. And actually it's kind of interesting because, uh, a lot of people recommend creative writing as a way of processing trauma. Uh, a lot of people recommend theater as a way of processing trauma as well. But actually speaking, that's kind of it's even easier than writing, isn't it? It's cheaper. You don't even need a paper and a pencil.
Speaker 3 (00:24:13) - Yeah. That's right.
David Doerrier (00:24:13) - You just you just need to be able to format it correctly so you can engage your audience. That's when you can hire a coach. Hello. That can help you out to kind of put it all together. You know, I was also thinking that sometimes people get a little shy to speak at the AA or the Na meeting. Having a little bit of Toastmasters under your belt now will help you to work through that anxiety and to be a speaker at your local meeting.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:40) - It's brilliant. You've elevated my thinking, David. And funnily enough, I interviewed a guy the other day called Dave.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:47) - I asked him, do you think everyone should have a coach? And he said, yes, everyone should have a coach called Dave, but he got it wrong. He should have said everyone should have a coach called David.
David Doerrier (00:24:57) - Exactly.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:59) - Speaking is, you know, it's such an important skill and it's it's not going to get any less important in the job market, is it? And it's one of those ironies, I suppose, that every job I have ever applied for has always said, must have good speaking skills, must have good verbal communication. Yet not once did I ever get taught it in school. So, uh.
Speaker 3 (00:25:20) - Um, yeah, I.
David Doerrier (00:25:22) - Uh, same here. Well, I was kind of I yeah, I never was really taught, I remember. Being in an English class, and we were reading through a play one day, and the teacher must have heard something that I or the way that I had expressed what I was reading. And so she brought me down to the theater department and said, you need to put this guy on stage.
David Doerrier (00:25:43) - Well, I never made it on stage. I was an understudy and was the curtain guy. But I did eventually get into community theater at some point down the road. But you know what you were saying earlier of some ways to help with the process of working through the addiction. Theater is certainly one of them. Improv is another great skill to learn and also stand up comedy, because here you're talking about yourself. Here in Atlanta, there's a gentleman by the name of Jeff Justice who conducts a stand up comedy class here, and I've taken it three times, and this is all about you and learning how to craft this. And maybe that's another way of getting it out. Getting getting all that stuff. I think, you know, when I think of someone who's addicted or I think of myself, I thought, I think of that. I had all of this stuff that was inside of me that was looking for something to fix it. So I'm going to go ahead and smoke. That's going to fix it.
David Doerrier (00:26:46) - But then that added all that anxiety, but looking for that release, trying to find a release.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:26:52) - I mean, a lot of people who are, you know, they're using alcohol, other substances as well, and, you know, they're using it to to try and ignore something when in actual fact, what they really need to do is release it. And I think that's something also very powerful. And, you know, like all really good stand up comedians and all really good speakers are actually quite physical. And to to to get really good at it, you need to become more aware of your movement and more aware of your body. And I think part of the reason why I was drinking, part of the reason why a lot of people drink, is that they're trying to ignore their body. They don't want to to feel anything, emotions or movement aside. So do you think, I mean, you mentioned exercise earlier, but, you know, speaking, exercising, do you think that's something that's helped you kind of reconnect with your body?
David Doerrier (00:27:45) - That's a great question.
David Doerrier (00:27:46) - Uh, certainly the exercise being a little happier with my body not being as fat, not being as lazy, not being as flabby, uh, with my body. But I think the biggest thing was just being happy with my body, being happy with myself because I always looked at myself in a very negative way. Uh, as a, as a child, I was picked on at school. I was picked on in my family. There was judgment constantly around me. I'm the oldest of five kids, and I was put into a position of responsibility that nobody listened to me. My parents wouldn't even back me up. They wouldn't support me when I would come to them and say, hey, nobody's listening to me. Nobody's doing the jobs that you asked me to tell them to do. I had a very low. I have very had very low self-esteem at the time. So I feel that now. Yes, I'm still working through some of those things, but I am a lot further along and I'm just, I guess I'm happy with who I am.
David Doerrier (00:28:46) - This is me. This is what God made, you know I'm going to. All right? I'm going bald. All right. That's me, that's me. I'm happy. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:28:55) - But you got a great beard to make up for it. I think I ought to point out to anybody who's just listening. This is a this is a spectacular beard. You've got to gotta tune in just for the beard. So you kind of mentioned mindset. Do you think there's a lot that's changed in terms of mindset for you?
David Doerrier (00:29:12) - Yes. Uh, I believe so that the biggest thing for me was just realizing that I'm okay. You know, I look this way, I act this way, I talk this way, I stutter this way at times. I also look a whole lot better with the beard than I did without the beard. I love my beard. I've only had it for maybe three years. It's really just being satisfied with myself because I was so judgmental of me in the past that I would constantly tear myself apart.
David Doerrier (00:29:46) - I wasn't good enough. I didn't look good enough. I'm not smart enough, I'm not this enough, I'm not that enough. You name it.
Speaker 3 (00:29:53) - Yeah. I didn't know.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:29:55) - If I could teach the world one thing. It would simply be the phrase that you are enough. You know it. Just like I love to tell people that you don't need the alcohol. You don't need the drugs, you don't need the cigarettes. You don't need the junk food. Yeah. There's so much that you don't need because you have everything inside you that you need to be happy, healthy, uh, you know, satisfied individual. And I mean, thank you so much for coming on and proving that to us. It's, uh, that that really has made my day. You. You mentioned, uh, kind of coaching you coach people around communications. Do you? What is your sort of coaching approach, should I say?
David Doerrier (00:30:37) - Great question. So number one, the types of people that I coach, well, people and organizations that are wanting to craft a message that's not going to bombard their audience with lots of data.
David Doerrier (00:30:50) - So I work with a lot of highly technical people who end up vomiting information on their audience. So my approach, number one, is to first understand you and understand your objectives and your goals. And who are you talking to? Uh, why are you going to talk to that audience? What's your what's your objective of not only your personal objective in your speaking career, but what is the objective in your topic? And like designing training, I have to have a destination in mind. We have to have a conclusion. So I always start with the conclusion first. So my approach is getting to know you and understanding your objectives and designing a program that's specifically for your needs and your goals.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:31:41) - Yeah. So in fancy pants language it's non directive isn't it. You're you're taking what that person wants to achieve and helping them in in essence, which I think that's a pretty good way of summing up coaching generally. Would you say that there's been anybody kind of over in the last few years that's that's helped you in that way to sort of stay sober and you make a few changes in your life?
David Doerrier (00:32:05) - Yes, I have a coach, and I think one of the biggest things I've learned is that, like you said earlier, that everybody needs a coach named David.
David Doerrier (00:32:13) - I have a coach named Barbara, and that sometimes we're so close to it that sometimes we don't see all of these other opportunities. I'm really good at helping other people see all of those other opportunities, but I'm horrible at helping myself. So I think the biggest thing I learned was I don't have all the answers, and it's okay not to have all the answers that I need help.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:32:41) - Yeah, it's a great speaker from the UK called Graham Jones. He's an author as well. He calls himself an internet psychologist. I did some work with him, and I honestly spent about six months trying to work out where I was going and what I was supposed to be doing, and I sat there and I talked to him for 15 minutes, and he went to do that, and it was just like, oh man, why didn't I think of that?
Speaker 3 (00:33:03) - Exactly?
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:33:04) - Like it's so obvious when you say it, but as you say, you're too close to it. So everybody needs a coach called David. I'm gonna stick that on a t shirt.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:33:12) - That's. Yeah. That's, uh. That's great. Would you say that you're beyond marijuana now?
David Doerrier (00:33:19) - I would say so, yeah, definitely. I, I haven't put myself into any positions where it was available. I mean, I was ordering it off the internet right now. I could go bing bang, boom and I it's it's in the mail and I've got it in a week. I haven't even gone to the website.
Speaker 3 (00:33:35) - Wow.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:33:36) - You just get it on the internet. It's been so long since I've bought anything illegal.
David Doerrier (00:33:40) - Yep yep yep. It was, uh, just have to have bitcoin and there you go. Bing bang boom. And it's in the mailbox in a week.
Speaker 3 (00:33:46) - Well there you go.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:33:48) - Oh, I'm so naive. You know. Are there, are there any behaviors that you've adopted that you think have really helped you to stay sober?
Speaker 3 (00:33:58) - Well, uh.
David Doerrier (00:33:59) - That's a great question. I think that one of the behaviors is that I freed myself from my full time job. I was, uh, I left my corporate job that was bringing a lot of anxiety into my life.
David Doerrier (00:34:13) - My corporate job was related to what I do now. I was in training and development for 30 years, and I left it at the end of the year. There was so much anxiety that was, uh, that was built up inside of me because I that wasn't my passion. This of being in with my own company. This is my passion. So I know that that has released a lot of anxiety from me. So to answer your question, I guess it's pursuing my passion.
Speaker 3 (00:34:43) - Yeah. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:34:44) - I mean, like meaning and purpose. It's like it's it's so important and it's something that I, I hear quite a lot people, you know, they, they, they need to stop getting in their own way. And what so much of us do in terms of getting in our own ways around chemicals and behaviors and alcohol and drugs and getting out, you know, getting, stopping doing that and just getting out of your own way gives you that clarity about what you actually want to do. And, you know, I'm not going to inquire about your financial situation, but, uh, I certainly make less money than I used to back in the day.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:19) - But I'm far happier because I'm doing something that's important. And, you know, you can't buy happiness, can you? It's like it's.
Speaker 3 (00:35:27) - It's so true, right?
David Doerrier (00:35:29) - I'm just like yourself. I'm even though I had this as a side hustle for five years, and I was making some money at it, that now it's my full time business, and I'm giving away a lot more than I'm making at this point, because I feel that I'm giving it away to people that are centers of influence, that are going to give me a recommendation on LinkedIn. They're going to know other people, they're going to experience my coaching, and they're going to say, hey, you need to you need to do a presentation. Well, you need to talk to my buddy David. That. And so that's why I and I feel that's part of the process of building a business is surrounding myself with more people that are in that center of influence.
Speaker 3 (00:36:18) - Yeah, yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:19) - And I think that's that's kind of like an interesting shift in mindset.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:24) - I don't know whether this necessarily resonates with you, but, you know, when I was drinking, it was it was all about where my next drink was coming from. You know, I didn't really care about other people. Uh, you know, I'm reasonably good at faking it, but, you know, what I cared about was, you know, did I have enough alcohol to get me through the evening? And now it's like, well, of course I want to do this podcast. You know, I don't care if I don't get any clients as a result of doing this podcast, because if people listen to it and it makes a difference to their lives, then you've made a difference to people's lives. And that's that's important.
Speaker 3 (00:37:01) - That's special. Yes.
David Doerrier (00:37:02) - Yes, exactly. Yeah. I was the same way. If I was going on a trip, a business trip, I'd have to say, well, how am I going to be able to bring this marijuana with me? How am I going to pack it up? What am I going to do? Because when it came to me through the mail, it was all packed up.
David Doerrier (00:37:17) - Nice that no one's going to smell it or anything. So I it was all there was so much, so many logistical things that were going on in my head about having it with me all the time.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:37:31) - Yeah, that, you know, that's something that comes up time and again when I talk to people when they're when they're still drinking. But yeah, there's there's the health aspect of it. Yeah. There's the effect it has on your relationships and about half of it, it's just the.
Speaker 3 (00:37:45) - Hassle.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:37:46) - Like just the lengths you have to go to to make sure that, you know, you've got enough booze to get you through the evening. And I mean, that's like, it's not just legal. I mean, these days you can just phone somebody up and they'll come around and deliver it to your house at four in the morning. So it's it's just, uh, it's getting a bit ridiculous, but, um, that's something I'm going to change. And build a sober army to smash drinks delivery companies.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:38:12) - Yeah. Anyway, so that's a slightly different rant. Look, but just before I let you go, have you ever had the meatballs in Ikea, by the way? You, uh.
Speaker 3 (00:38:21) - I have, yes, I have had the.
David Doerrier (00:38:23) - Meatballs.
Speaker 3 (00:38:23) - We have.
David Doerrier (00:38:25) - We have an Ikea here in Atlanta.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:38:28) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you think? Do you like the meatballs?
David Doerrier (00:38:30) - I like them, I love Swedish meatballs.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:38:33) - Okay. Fair enough, fair enough. It's just sometimes I think that nobody really likes the meatballs. They're just that thing that you have to do when you go to Ikea, which is. I'd sort of like to basically frame a question around that idea that, you know, there are some things that we have to do, but we don't really want to do. So in terms of sobriety, is there something that everybody should do but nobody really wants to do?
David Doerrier (00:38:57) - Is there everything somebody should do? Well, I think that is is getting to know yourself and being in love with yourself and being happy with yourself and being okay with where you're at and being, you know, the other thing is being accepted acceptable of okay, all right, I might have or forgiving yourself.
David Doerrier (00:39:17) - That was a big thing for me. I've been part of a men's group, and I thought that I had to forgive these other people for all of the things that they did to me. That isn't the truth. What what what I found out was you forgive yourself, okay? I made these mistakes in the past. I didn't do that correctly. I did that thing, I did this, I did that. That's okay. Because at the time, I didn't know any better. I, I, I did what I at the time, I felt was the right thing to do. So I forgive myself for all of those things. So forgiveness. Forgiveness, forgiveness.
Speaker 3 (00:39:53) - Yeah. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:39:53) - No, I like you absolutely right about that. You know, uh, the way I sort of think about it sometimes, like there is only one way that the two of us could have got to this point in our lives, you know, and that is doing everything that we've done up until this point.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:40:10) - And I've quite enjoyed this conversation. And I'm not saying the 20 years of drinking drug misery was worth it just to talk to you, but you know what I'm saying? If I hadn't done that, I'd be a different person and we wouldn't be chatting today. And, you know, I've enjoyed our conversation. So, uh, it's, uh. Yeah, it's it's what it is. And I think forgiveness absolutely, totally and utterly right on that front. So, uh, now everybody is thoroughly educated into the idea that they need a coach called David. How do they get in touch with you?
David Doerrier (00:40:39) - Uh, two great ways to get in touch with me. One is through my website, Present Your Way to success.com. On my website, you'll find a number of links where you can set up a complimentary 30 minute coaching session or just discovery call, or through LinkedIn and on LinkedIn, I'm usually posting just about every day tips and tricks on how to be an engaging presenter.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:04) - Perfect. I will of course put all of those in the, uh, in the show notes.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:08) - But look, I mean, thank you so much for your time today, David. I've really I really enjoyed today. You've elevated my thinking. You've like, blown my mind about Toastmasters. And I was in the Masters for five years and I didn't even realize.
Speaker 3 (00:41:22) - Yeah, yeah.
David Doerrier (00:41:23) - Having that that that anxiety or those the trauma from the past that can make a great story underneath all of that is a great speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:41:33) - I'm lucky that.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:34) - A family trauma might work as a story. Who knows?
Speaker 3 (00:41:38) - Uh.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:40) - I mean, thanks again for your time. Uh, really, really enjoyed it.
David Doerrier (00:41:43) - Thank you, thank you.