Overcoming Trauma, Addiction, and Finding Redemption with Travis Sackett

In the story of life, not many things are as complicated and fragile as the path from being addicted to becoming free and sober. Today, I want you to hear about Travis, whose story shows how strong people can be.

Travis's story begins with a childhood marred by abuse and difficulty. Despite these challenges, he pursued a career in criminal justice, aiming to make a positive impact in the world. However, life threw him a curveball when a serious injury led him down the path of opioid addiction. And even there, he secretly fought with his substance addiction, and his colleagues didn't notice.

Until a traumatic incident served as his wake-up call. It was the moment he realized that drugs and alcohol were not the solution to his problems. He didn't get sober alone. With the help of a counselor and a tailored recovery program, Travis began the arduous journey to sobriety, developing skills and learning to communicate effectively with others.

An unexpected helper for Travis was Karma, a dog he rescued. By helping Karma, Travis also helped himself. Their friendship reminded him every day that there is love and loyalty in life.

Now, Travis is a symbol of hope for others who are still struggling with addiction. He's also working to make things better. His book, "Life with Karma," isn't just his life story; it's a guide for those who want to find their way out of a bad place. His job isn't just work; it's his mission to help others who need it.

When you hear Travis's story on "Flatpack Sober," let it inspire you. Remember that no matter how hard things are, you can always change. His move from being addicted to being sober shows how much people can change and how one choice can make a difference in someone's life.

Come join our talk, and maybe you'll see your strength and ability to bounce back. Listen now, and be part of a group that believes in getting better and having hope for a better future.

Connect with Travis on his Facebook account.

Transcript

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:00:00) - Welcome to Flat Pack Sober. Your catalogue of tips, tricks, and tactics to design your alcohol-free life. I'm joined today by somebody who is the personification of resilience. He overcame an abusive, difficult childhood to go on and study criminal justice. And that sounds like right now you're only making your way in the world. But of course, he encountered a lot of different problems there. One of those problems was a serious injury, which led him to opioids, which unfortunately led him to addiction. But he overcame that. And now what he does is he tries to give voice to the kind of people in society who don't have voices to talk about some of the things that are far too often neglected. And he's particularly done that in his book, My Life With Karma. And I think we're going to meet karma, uh, at least, um, sort of metaphorically later on. And I'm super excited about digging into his story a little bit. So, Travis, thank you so much for joining us.

Travis Madison (00:01:06) - Duncan. Thank you so much for having me. I mean, I am elated to be here. I'm so happy we were able to connect. And basically, I'm excited to share my story, share some tricks, and share some tips. Um, basically whatever the people want to hear, let's give it to them.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:21) - Perfect. Let's get right into it. So does Wisconsin have an Ikea?

Travis Madison (00:01:26) - An Ikea? Um, not that I know of. Uh, I do have Ikea furniture though, uh, from when we lived in Arizona. So in that.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:35) - Case, you'll be all right. So you've done your fair share of building Flatpack furniture?

Travis Madison (00:01:39) - Yes, I have.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:40) - So what's your approach when it comes to building Flatpack? How do you go about it? What do you do?

Travis Madison (00:01:46) - Oh, I'm very methodical, so I like to lay everything out, make sure I have all the parts first. Um, because nothing's more frustrating than getting to a piece and realizing you don't have it. The other thing that I do is I say a little prayer because I know it's going to be a pain in the ass.

Travis Madison (00:02:04) - So essentially I do that. I get that out of the way, and I make sure that, uh, the house is clear. So my wife and my son are nowhere near me because something may fly at any point in time. So that's that's my approach.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:21) - Clear the area. I like that a lot. So you lay everything out. You have a look through the instructions, check. You've got a good idea of what you're going to do before you get started.

Travis Madison (00:02:31) - Exactly. Perfect.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:32) - So would you say that's kind of like the approach that you take to life learning, solving problems? Do you like to absorb all of the information first and then act?

Travis Madison (00:02:42) - I do, yes. Um, and I'd like to get as many perspectives as I can as I've grown older, I've realized there's plenty of people that know more than I do, and I like to learn from them. So I take it all in and then I try to attack, so to say.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:58) - So for me, I would sort of call that a kind of reflex sort of approach.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:03:03) - And the reason why I would like to start with this question is because I always like to, to help the listeners get a handle on kind of where you're coming from, because a lot of the problem I think that exists in the world is there's there's almost too much information out there. And we listen to all of these gurus, we listen to all of these like, thought leaders. And, you know, they say, do this, do this, do this. It's the most amazing thing. And what of course, they're saying is this was the thing that really worked for me. This was the amazing thing for me. But if they have a completely different approach to learning and to solving problems to you, then it can be quite disappointing when it doesn't work for you. So we like to start off by getting an idea of what you're kind of your sobriety style is. And, you know, you're quite reflective. And I've done a quiz, you know, on flat pack sober.com, anybody can take the sober style quiz and figure out, you know, what their approach is.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:03:54) - And then, of course, you can listen to what you say and say, well, you know, Travis is very different from me, so I can ignore everything he says.

Speaker 3 (00:04:00) - Uh, okay, let's get.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:04:02) - Into that story. Tell us, you know, a little bit about yourself, about how you got where where you got and, uh, you know how you got here. Sure.

Travis Madison (00:04:10) - So you mentioned, um, history. Basically, I had a rough family history. Um, my father was a functioning alcoholic and a high school principal. And essentially, when things got, I guess, too stressful at school, he'd come home, he drank, and then he'd take it out on my mom and I. He was verbally and physically abusive. So that's the environment I grew up in. And I also saw him to put on a lot of facades in terms of being a functioning alcoholic and being a principal. He was always our family was always kind of in the spotlight, um, especially in public eye.

Travis Madison (00:04:50) - So he, he wore a lot of different hats and he was very dynamic person in front of people. But then at home, he was a monster. Completely different. Um, so that was it was very hard growing up in that environment, never knowing what to expect, never knowing what dad was going to show up.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:09) - So that sounds really hard.

Travis Madison (00:05:11) - Yeah, it really was. So essentially my dad, eventually he lost his job, um, and within a year and a half ended up passing away of cirrhosis of the liver and kidneys. So he pretty much drank himself to death. Um, after his career ended, and I was I was 20. Yeah, 20 at the time when he passed away. So really looking to make a change in my own life and help other people, uh, is what got me into a path in law enforcement. However, I didn't take a traditional path. I did what was called dignitary protection, and I was responsible for protecting one of Wisconsin's governors. So I was assigned to the residence primarily, and then also did some driving for them.

Travis Madison (00:06:04) - So I didn't really have your standard law enforcement career. Um, like I said, it was mostly protection based, family based, um, making sure they felt secure so they could do what they needed to do in the greater scheme of things.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:18) - You got injured, um, as a part of that role.

Travis Madison (00:06:21) - I did. So essentially I was also very big into powerlifting, um, with weightlifting. And I had qualified for worlds in Las Vegas. So I was training for worlds. Um, and that's when I initially hurt my back. And then I re-injured it at work working a protest. And I was actually, I was just moving coolers at the time, and I twisted the wrong way. And I injured L4, L5, I had two herniated disc in my back. So I went to the doctor and they prescribed me, um, three different medications OxyContin, a muscle relaxant, and then something to help me sleep at night. And that's where my relationship with OxyContin began.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:07) - What year was that? Just out of interest.

Travis Madison (00:07:10) - 2009 2010.

Speaker 3 (00:07:12) - Okay. Yeah. So it was.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:14) - Before it all kind of started to blow up, I guess.

Speaker 3 (00:07:17) - Exactly.

Travis Madison (00:07:18) - Yes. And I mean, at that time they were still prescribing oxy, almost like it was candy in the United States. I mean, you go in with almost any kind of injury and they're like, hey, we have this miracle drug for you. And I mean, I'm not going to lie to you, Duncan. It it worked in terms of mitigating the pain. However, the side effects and everything that came with it was not worth it.

Speaker 3 (00:07:40) - No.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:40) - So what sort of.

Speaker 3 (00:07:41) - Kind of.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:42) - Areas did it take you into then?

Travis Madison (00:07:44) - Well, I mean, the biggest thing for me was once I started using the oxy, I was using it as prescribed for maybe the first week or two, and then I was realizing it wasn't lasting the duration. So they said take one every 3 to 4 hours. And I was having to take one every 1 to 2 hours.

Travis Madison (00:08:05) - So I went through my script extremely fast. The other thing that I got into was so I was doing a lot of clock watching, always basically on edge, waiting for that time that I could take the next pill. On top of that, I started to snort them. Um, I would take one up the nose and then take one orally to try to drive that effect, to get it into my body faster, to upload faster, just basically anything to take away the pain. And that was where the relationship started to kind of go sideways, was as soon as I was no longer taking it as prescribed and I was taking it well, snorting it. I mean, those were two major red flags for me.

Speaker 3 (00:08:52) - Yeah, yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:08:53) - And I mean, that's like I think I kind of in many ways that sort of encapsulates the entire OxyContin thing, doesn't it? You know, you're prescribed it by a doctor and it's not like you're sort of deadbeat. You know, you're somebody in.

Speaker 3 (00:09:10) - Criminal.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:10) - Justice. You know, you're doing close protection for the governor.

Speaker 3 (00:09:13) - It's like.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:14) - Yeah, that sort of sums up a lot of the story of OxyContin, doesn't it?

Travis Madison (00:09:19) - It really does. I mean, and what I never perceived, I never thought I would have an issue with the medication because it was prescribed by a doctor. I was so naive, and I was I just completely overlooked the fact that this drug could be addicting. This drug could take me down a path I don't want to go down. I was just focused on what can they do for pain and will I be fit for duty is what we called it, so that I could go to work and perform basically my job. And that was all I was looking to do.

Speaker 3 (00:09:53) - Yeah. And I mean.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:54) - I don't think there is a person on the planet that can criticize you for wanting to be in less pain. And go to work. That's entirely normal natural behavior. So I take it it started to affect your employment and work and so forth.

Speaker 3 (00:10:09) - It did.

Travis Madison (00:10:10) - So eventually. What happened was I was prescribed the first 30 days and then I went back to the doctor. Then they gave me a prescription for 90 more days. During that 90 days is when things really started to erode for me. I ended up having a caffeine problem on top of it because the oxy was making me tired and I had to be alert at work. So then I was taking way too much caffeine. I was almost doing like a speedball, only with caffeine as opposed to with cocaine. And I mean, that was how I was getting through my day. And basically, um, what happened was everything like my work performance, um, my attention to detail, it all started to slip, only not enough that my coworkers didn't really notice that I was missing time at work here and there, but overall, I was still doing enough to get by, so no one ever really questioned me on it. And I just kept taking the pills. And that 90 days lasted me around 45 days.

Travis Madison (00:11:16) - So then I had a decision to make, and that's when I started working with a drug dealer to get more opiate based pain medication.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:27) - Was that difficult, finding somebody who could who was happy to sell you? Um, yeah, effectively prescription medication. But on the street?

Travis Madison (00:11:35) - Yeah. No, not at all. Um, essentially, I found this individual through the gym that I was lifting weights at. Um, I knew he had access to steroids, and I just, I had a very candid conversation with him and just asked him, hey, can you get me anything? Pain medication base? And he said, uh, yeah, of course. Give me a couple days. And that was that was it. That was all I needed to keep me going.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:01) - I said, not really what I think gyms are supposed to be for hooking up with a drug dealer, is it?

Travis Madison (00:12:07) - No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (00:12:09) - There we go.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:10) - Okay. So did you get to a sort of a, like a rock bottom point or.

Travis Madison (00:12:15) - Oh, man. So I had a few points that I would call rock bottom. First I did some dumpster diving. At the time I had a wife, she had a horse, and they had Horse Butte, which is essentially aspirin prescribed for horses. And I would end up taking the leftover tubes and squeezing them out and then taking that. So I was taking one fifth of a dose that they would give to a horse, um, when I couldn't get the opioid pain meds. So digging in dumpsters, um, for medication, that was a low, but that was not my lowest of lows. I ended up getting into a physical altercation and suffering a traumatic brain injury, and that was my definite low point.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:04) - Is that what kind of motivated you to, uh, get clean and sober then?

Travis Madison (00:13:08) - It is, um, I actually ended up in jail. So in order to support my habit, I began stealing to, um, another one of those low points. So I was stealing credit card information from the gym where I worked out at.

Travis Madison (00:13:23) - And then selling that, and then using that to buy the street oxy. And then eventually my dealer was able to get me some veterinarian grade, um, medication through Canada that was opioid based, and I was buying, um, 600 pills at a time from him at $3 a pill. So it was $1,800 each time that I met with my dealer. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:13:50) - And how many?

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:50) - How long was 600 pills lasting you?

Travis Madison (00:13:53) - Roughly. Roughly two months, if that. Not even. Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:00) - That is an expensive habit.

Speaker 3 (00:14:02) - It was so very expensive. Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:05) - So, uh, you start off, law enforcement takes you down this path, you end up stealing credit card details, spending a huge amount of money. I'm going to assume it's impacting on your relationships and, you know, other areas of your life. And then you got into this altercation. So how did that how did that come about?

Travis Madison (00:14:25) - Um, so essentially I ended up getting caught, getting arrested, going to jail. And I spent about 5 or 6 months in jail, got clean in jail, and then ended up getting basically sent back home on probation.

Travis Madison (00:14:44) - And one night while I was on probation, I decided I wasn't going to use, but I, I thought I could go out and drink. I'm like, I'm just going to go out, have a couple drinks and try to essentially I was trying to get some. Sleep that night. I'm like, this will do the trick. I've done this in the past. It won't be an issue. Well, a couple drinks turned into way more than that. I think I had about 12 in a two hour period and was just annihilated. I decided to drive home from the bar then, and I ended up crashing my car into a curb, basically about a block and a half from my house. At that point in time, I proceeded to get sick, um, went through up on the side of someone's house, also use the bathroom outside. And while I was trying to collect myself, I leaned up against a car and set off a car alarm. At that point in time, what was? My neighbor came outside with a flashlight and started yelling obscenities, basically saying what he was going to do if he caught me.

Travis Madison (00:15:51) - I tried to hide. You can't tell it, but I'm a big guy. I'm over six feet tall. Hiding is not a good option for me.

Speaker 3 (00:15:58) - You did.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:58) - Say powerlifting.

Speaker 3 (00:16:00) - I yeah. You a scrawny?

Travis Madison (00:16:02) - Yeah. No. So? So hiding didn't work. I eventually slid into the passenger seat of another car, shut the door, locked it, and basically had this individual shouting, telling me to open the car. And I was like, I'm not going to open the car door for you. There's no way. Um. Eventually he seemed to calm down, so I was like, okay, maybe I can talk to him, open the car door. When to get out, he said. I lunged at him. I to this day think I just took a drunk stumble, and he proceeded to beat me with the maglite flashlight. I fractured my skull in three different places. Um, this whole side of my face is actually titanium and I suffered a traumatic brain injury from the event, so the next thing I knew, I was awake on the curb and handcuffs and then being taken to a hospital and then the first hospital, they couldn't treat my injuries.

Travis Madison (00:17:00) - Um, they were too severe. So they took me to another hospital, where the next day I had two surgeries, um, one to expel the air from my brain cavity, and then another one to basically put my face back together.

Speaker 3 (00:17:15) - Wow. Yeah, yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:17:18) - Not some. That's that's not what you want to do on a night out, I'm guessing. Is that the point you decided enough was enough?

Travis Madison (00:17:27) - Oh, that was yes. That at that point in time, um, I was grateful to still be alive and essentially decided, okay, drugs and alcohol do not work well in my life, and I need to do something to change it. Unfortunately, I was taken back to jail because I was on probation and I violated my probation by going out drinking. So I went back to jail for roughly another 6 to 7 months where that's where my sobriety started. And then as soon as I was released from jail, I went to a place called Connections Counseling. So a counseling facility in Madison, and I started my path to recovery there.

Speaker 3 (00:18:11) - You know.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:11) - If you were going to put your recovery into a nice, simple box, uh, would you say there's a particular method you used?

Speaker 3 (00:18:18) - Or at first it.

Travis Madison (00:18:20) - Was just being transparent because when I was in active addiction, everything was a lie. It was it was all to protect my addiction, to protect myself, not letting people know. So it started with transparency, saying, look, I have an issue and really just being open and honest with people in groups and then listening to them, listening to their stories, listening to what worked for other people and saying, okay, I think that might work for me. I might try that or, okay, that sounds kind of ridiculous. That's not something I'm going to try, but kind of waiting those waters and and just figuring out a plan and a program that I thought I could implement in my own life.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:19:06) - Would it be fair to say that you kind of designed your own program?

Travis Madison (00:19:09) - Yeah, that it definitely. Um, with the help of a counselor.

Travis Madison (00:19:13) - And then IOP, which is intensive outpatient treatment. Um, I was doing that three mornings a week for 3 to 4 hours each morning. And what.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:19:24) - Sort of things were you doing in those.

Speaker 3 (00:19:26) - Sessions talking.

Travis Madison (00:19:27) - About trauma? Um, different coping techniques, because for me, I didn't I didn't have a good set of coping techniques. Basically, my my only way of coping with stress was I would go to the gym and that really wasn't working, or I would drink or I would take a pill. So I had to learn that I could enjoy life without those things, that I could do other things that would bring not only peace to my life, but would also be healthy. Be and be helpful. Um, and that's kind of where karma came into the picture.

Speaker 3 (00:20:04) - Yeah. No, no, we'll.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:05) - Get to that in a second.

Speaker 3 (00:20:06) - Okay.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:07) - Very very interesting bro. So a lot of it was about finding ways of coping that were much healthier. So for you it was like kind of about developing skills.

Travis Madison (00:20:19) - Oh, definitely. For sure. Yeah. Just skills and the ability to talk with other people. You would think law enforcement, I would have that. But I was taught to perceive people as a threat. So everyone that I met could be a potential threat. So I was taught to look at their body language, how to position myself so that if they were to attack, I could essentially react in in a very fast way. I was taught to look at their waistline, look for weapons, things along those lines. So I didn't really have a great way of operating when it came to people. In fact, people kind of made me nervous and anxious.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:21:05) - I find that really, really interesting because there is a lot of stuff around kind of vigilance and hypervigilance that's very much associated with certain kind of traumas, isn't it? Like being being so aware of what is going on around you that everything becomes incredibly stressful and you're always at that kind of low level, anxious, stressful kind of feeling. So would you say that that was almost something that was trained into you?

Travis Madison (00:21:32) - Oh, definitely.

Travis Madison (00:21:32) - I mean, you absolutely nailed it on the head. I was called what is hyper attentive. So everything in my environment, it would it would all spark these little cues and then it would increase my anxiety and make me analyze pretty much every situation. I was constantly in analysis, always looking, always very, like I said, very vigilant, but never really relaxing, never able to really just be myself or have a good time. It was always me tuned in to what was going on around me. Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:08) - Which kind of then I guess is what makes you feel that you've got to do something really very heavy, that it's going to kind of like a blitz rate, that attention and that stress, either very heavily numb it with the opioids or, you know, just blackout drunk kind of thing.

Travis Madison (00:22:25) - That's exactly it. And, and sleep too became a problem, a huge problem. I still that's still something that I struggle with. Um, even today in recovery, my sleep has never returned to a point where I would say I'm well rested, so to say it's it's very broken.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:44) - And you also talked a lot about getting used to talking to people and talking through things. So did you do some work around your sort of your childhood and your relationship with your father?

Travis Madison (00:22:54) - Um, not necessarily. Um, we unpacked some of that in counseling, talked about some of the traumas about him beating me a few times, things like that, and work through it where I, I never even told anyone about that until I actually started with a counselor. So that was very hard for me, and it was just a lot to unpack. But it also felt like this incredible weight was lifted once I did share some of that information and just kind of took the power away from it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:25) - Yeah, and it just makes me wonder. I mean, you know, like there are so many respectable people out there or seemingly respectable people with seemingly respectable jobs, and you don't know what goes on underneath the surface, and you don't know how that affects their children, and you just don't know how many people out there are out there who have never told anybody about it, have never talked about it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:48) - They're just carrying around that great weight. I mean, it makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Travis Madison (00:23:52) - Oh, it really does. And then it also it for me, it hurts me and it makes me sad because I know how stuck I felt. And I can only imagine that's how they feel. Like where they just can't quite move past that. And like I said, it's it's a weight that you carry with you until you can finally share it and kind of disperse some of the burden.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:18) - Yeah, yeah. Look, I mean, I think that what you said, you know, the phrase stuck, I think that's, that's so relevant, isn't it? You know, there are so many people that just genuinely don't believe there is another way. They feel like they are stuck or imprisoned in their current situation. And that's why I think it's so important that people like you, you know, you're writing your book, you're sharing your story, you're showing people that there is another way. And I think, you know, there's something even more interesting about you because, you know, you have this kind of like, All-American law enforcement kind of image, you know, and if it can happen to you, it it can happen to any of us, can't it?

Travis Madison (00:24:56) - Well, that's exactly it.

Travis Madison (00:24:57) - And that's one thing. When I speak or when I talk about my book. I like to share that addiction does not discriminate, and I really like to put that out there for people, because just because you don't necessarily hear the stories and you have this perception that the media creates of what an addict looks like, and that's that's so unfair and it's so off kilter and off putting, so to say, because that's, that's not typically where it begins. That may be the end product, but you're not seeing all the transition, all the steps between. And it really I think a distance people, they say, oh well I'm not as bad as this. So they think they don't have a problem. But in reality it's like, no, you just haven't gotten to that point yet.

Speaker 3 (00:25:48) - Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:49) - That's like that's one of the things I like to try and get across to people. You know, it's you haven't driven there yet, but you're on that road and you know what happens if you keep driving down a road? You end up in the town, don't you? Whether you want to go there or not, that is what happens to you.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:26:05) - And the point about the media is so very interesting. I mean, I've worked with a few people in the media. They like to drink those media types, you know, journalists, they love a good beer. And then another and then another and then another. So you've got to wonder. Anyway, tell me about karma then.

Travis Madison (00:26:22) - So karma was a dog I rescued while I was in active addiction. Um, essentially through conversations with my drug dealer at the time, he knew I like dogs is really what it came down to. And he said, look, I know there's this dog that's been chained to this tree out at this house. She's been there for a while. Um, I don't know what kind of dog it is. I think it might be a boxer, a pit bull, or some kind of mix. If you're interested, you should go check it out, because I'm not sure how long this dog's going to last. So one weekend, I drove my civilian car. I was still a police officer at the time out to this house, and it's in the United States.

Travis Madison (00:27:01) - It's what we call a trap house. It's a dilapidated house that they use to sell drugs and do other nefarious things out of you. I could tell just when I pulled up to the house, I'm like, okay, this is not good environment whatsoever. However, I did see the dog chained to a tree just as described, and there was no water in the water dish. There was no food available. You could see the dog's ribs, you could see her backbone, and she's just in really poor shape. So I walked up to the door, knocked on the door and said, hey, I'm here, I'm interested in your dog. And no one answered. And I knocked again and I saw someone peeped through the blinds, so I knew someone was in the house. They just didn't want to talk to me. So I was like, all right. I went back to the tree and kind of analyze the dog. I did what I was talking to you about, um, looked at all kind of looked at the dog.

Travis Madison (00:27:57) - Her condition saw. Okay, is this dog in a attack? Me? Um, she she growled at me a few times but didn't lunge at me. Didn't do anything that scared me. So I was like, all right, I think I can work with this. I got back in my car and I did decision to make. I'm like, do I leave the dog here or do I try to do something? Um, instead of going home? I went to a hardware store that I had passed on the way, got a giant bolt cutter because she was chained to the tree and a beach towel to wrap her up, and and I went back to the house once again, knocked on the door, said, hey, look, I'm here. I'm going to take your dog. If you want money out of money, I will give you money. But the dog's not staying here. So after some careful negotiation and, um, some French fries that I was able to distract her with, I was able to cut the chain on the tree and eventually get her into the back of my car.

Travis Madison (00:28:54) - And that's. I took karma home that day. And that's how she became my dog.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:29:00) - Nice and, you know, clearly you start looking after her. She started to to flourish.

Travis Madison (00:29:05) - I guess that's exactly what happened. Um, it took, I would say, about six months, around three months before I could really, like, reach my hand into Petre. Uh, she was very head shy, very afraid. From what the veterinarian said, they thought that she might have been used as a rape dog for other dogs that were trained for dog fighting, so they weren't exactly sure. But her teeth had been filed down. Her due claws had been removed with probably a pliers. Very, very rough shape. So this dog, there were a lot of trust issues, and I had to build trust with her. And just by showing her love and compassion and being a consistent in her life, I was able to do that.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:29:52) - So, um, she started to get healthy. How about you? I mean, what did did it improve your psychological well-being?

Speaker 3 (00:29:59) - They help you get clean? It did.

Travis Madison (00:30:01) - Eventually. Um, yeah. At first it didn't. So we were almost on different trajectories. While she was improving, I actually got worse. And then eventually we kind of met in the middle, where I began to share with her before I began to share with people. So I would take her on these long walks, two, three, four mile walks. And I would just tell her myself. I would be like, hey, I'm having this craving today, or I passed this spot where I used to use and this is what I experienced. So I got used to telling my story to karma before I told my story to anyone else. And that's really where my ability to communicate kind of started was with karma.

Speaker 3 (00:30:45) - Wow.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:30:45) - That's really that's really interesting, isn't it? You know, so you were sort of kind of, I don't know, practicing just just building up that confidence kind of thing to, to talk about what you were going through, what you're feeling. And, and that eventually led you to being able to share it with other people.

Travis Madison (00:31:03) - That's exactly it. Yeah. And the best part about her was she didn't judge. She was just there and just a companion, that she loved me unconditionally. So it was it was wonderful.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:31:15) - That kind of like really drives home the point about the relationship that I think a lot of people that I've met are there as a part of their recovery or as a part of maintaining their sobriety. What they have found important is, is some kind of relationship where there is this unconditional positive regard. You know, you can call it love if you like. There's this kind of non-judgmental thing, you know, just somebody who is there for them. And we'll listen to them and we'll give them the space to think through their problems. Have you found any people that have sort of come along and filled that sort of space, you know, with the non-judgmental, the time in the space to talk things through?

Speaker 3 (00:31:55) - Yes.

Travis Madison (00:31:56) - Uh, for sure. So, um, I would say two people, hands down my counselor that I initially worked with, um, Shelly Dodge was amazing.

Travis Madison (00:32:05) - And she saw potential in me before I believed in myself, which was really what set me up for a path to succeed. And then my current wife, Vanessa, um, she. On her first date, I actually told her everything I've shared with you and then some. And she didn't run. She didn't, she didn't. She stayed and decided, okay, I want to learn more. I want to invest in you as a person. And she's just been incredible.

Speaker 3 (00:32:37) - So, man, that's beautiful.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:32:39) - I think there's something really important, I suppose, in that. Kind of like seeing the potential that you can't see, you know? And I think there's something enormously important about lending people a bit of confidence and saying to them, look, I know you don't think you can do it, but I think you can do it. So here's a bit of my confidence to kind of help help you along the journey. But I'd honestly never thought of recovery as a as a great set of chat up lines.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:33:05) - So that's, that's that I mean that, you know, interesting date, I suppose, but uh.

Travis Madison (00:33:11) - Oh very well. I felt that, honestly, I felt I owed it to her, um, just to, like I said, because transparency was such a big thing for me, especially early on in recovery and just getting used to not only talking to people, but telling them the truth and not withholding information. So with her, I was like, look, I want to start off, even if it's not necessarily my best foot forward, I want to start off with something that's honest and real, and if we can build from there, great. And if we can't, well, I understand that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (00:33:46) - So then it gets to.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:33:47) - The point like, well, where when do you tell them like, is it you wait three dates and then it becomes a thing and like, you know, you can't tell somebody that six months down the line because that is that is going to end the relationship.

Speaker 3 (00:33:59) - Isn't it?

Travis Madison (00:34:00) - Exactly. That's exactly it. So I figured I might as well start with it and see where it goes.

Speaker 3 (00:34:05) - I mean, I'm.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:34:06) - I'm getting this this honesty transparency thing. You've said it a couple of times. Is that the the most important thing that you've found to keep yourself sober, or is there there are other elements that you think are just as important.

Travis Madison (00:34:20) - I would say on top of it, connection and caring for something other than yourself. As soon as I was able to, whether it was karma, whether it was my wife or today, my son, just being able to live my best life for something else and say, I'm going to put my best effort for each day. And it may not be the greatest every day, but it's going to be the best I can do and really try to help something or someone else thrive. That really gives me purpose. I also do that with my writing. I currently write for Recovery Today magazine and I. Help other people share their stories of recovery.

Travis Madison (00:35:01) - And what that does for me is not only does it give me hope to and me seeing okay, individuals come back from this, but it also gives me purpose because I'm like, I'm able to help someone else achieve that next step and and really try to help them move forward.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:20) - There's so much in that. And I'm very keen on that idea that we discover our true selves through the service of other people. And for you, that kind of started with karma, moved into your relationship with your wife, and your son is now how.

Speaker 3 (00:35:34) - Old.

Travis Madison (00:35:35) - He is. Ten and a half months now.

Speaker 3 (00:35:37) - Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:37) - So that's still quite a lot of work, I'm guessing.

Travis Madison (00:35:40) - Yes, it is, but it's so rewarding. I mean, it's it's amazing watching his trajectory and just him grow and develop and the new skills and everything that he displays is incredible. I mean, I was concerned before we had him that I had doubts, like, what kind of dad would I be? Um, especially with the dad that I grew up with.

Travis Madison (00:36:05) - I mean, I knew what I didn't want to be, but I didn't necessarily have that role model to say, oh, this is this is the kind of dad that I want. So it was more or less like I realized that could be freeing, too, in a sense that, okay, I can break the mold. I can do things that weren't necessarily done for me, but do them for back home and really just make sure that he has everything he needs to thrive. And that's that's the most rewarding.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:35) - I think it's it's very interesting. I've worked with a few people who are very switched on and very good at what they do professionally, because they studied at the best universities. You know, they've had great mentors, they've had a series of amazing teachers that have taught them all of the skills that they need to really excel in their job. But then when you look at the start they had in life, the way they learn to interact with other people, the way they learn to be a human being, and ultimately the way they learn what parenting was supposed to look like came from, you know, less than ideal teachers.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:37:08) - Shall we? Shall we say so, um, carry on with that. I think that's, that's that's such an important mission. But just in terms of kind of you mentioned storytelling as well. So was writing the book something that you found help to kind of like reappraise and reflect on your story and maybe kind of think about it in a different way.

Travis Madison (00:37:29) - It was it was also after the traumatic brain injury, um, I lost my ability temporarily to read and write. Um, I had to reteach myself in jail, actually, how to write. I would practice my ABCs. And then I was having problems with speech. I had what they call aphasia. Um, it's similar to what a stroke patient would have where I would get stuck on words and I couldn't get them out. Um, I so I would just stutter or I just freeze up completely. Um, so over time, once those abilities came back, it was even that much more important to me to tell my story because I felt like I was given it back.

Travis Madison (00:38:10) - So I'm like, now I really want to share it. Um, and then I didn't realize the how cathartic it would be. How how, I guess freeing in the sense that once I put it all on paper and said, okay, now it's out there. What that would do for me until after I had written it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:38:29) - So it's such a such a great word. It's better than denouement. But, um, you know, it's like the idea of all of that passion, all of that emotion, it's all out there, like you say, it's been freed. And that, I guess, you know, ties in with what you were saying about when you weren't talking about it. It was a great weight. So, you know, really putting it out into the world. Very liberating, I guess.

Speaker 3 (00:38:54) - Yeah, that's exactly it.

Travis Madison (00:38:56) - And then to get feedback, especially when I wrote my book, I didn't know how it was going to connect with people if it would, um, especially coming from law enforcement base.

Travis Madison (00:39:06) - I mean, there's so many there's so much stigma there that we could get into as well. And I was like, well, people even received this. And then once I started getting feedback and having people reach out, I realized, okay, I'm connecting with people on a real level. And they're they're starting to do some work. They're starting to do some analysis on their own. And now it's like, how do I get these people the tools they need to continue to succeed? And that actually led me down a path to become a recovery coach. So just more tools, more, I guess more knowledge on my end that I could share.

Speaker 3 (00:39:45) - So it's.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:39:45) - Brilliant. And do you work with a lot of people in law enforcement?

Speaker 3 (00:39:48) - Uh, law.

Travis Madison (00:39:49) - Enforcement? No, I have actually never worked with anyone in law enforcement in terms of recovery. I've worked with plenty of people from all sorts of walks of different life. But nobody from law enforcement to this day.

Speaker 3 (00:40:02) - Well that's good. I find it kind of interesting.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:40:04) - I mean, I've never, never really thought about it until 45 seconds ago, but, you know, it's quite a stressful profession, isn't it? And there's an awful lot of kind of. You must be in control, is it? And I wonder, I mean, there must be people who are misusing alcohol, at the very least in the law enforcement world. Is that ever something that you've come across as a problem?

Travis Madison (00:40:28) - It's interesting. I think there's there's a lot of along with that control. There's a lot of I can handle this on my own. And there's there's a fair amount of denial and a fair amount of, well, I'm not as bad as this individual I just arrested. So you see, you see some parody there, and then you don't necessarily see the true person. You see the officer, you see the person that they're putting out into the community. And I think a lot of people, at the end of the day in law enforcement, when they take off the badge, when they when they put down the gun, they don't necessarily change that persona.

Travis Madison (00:41:12) - They they still say that tough, gruff individual. And I think it prevents a lot of people from getting help, which is very unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (00:41:20) - So that's a.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:21) - Very interesting subject. I think that's a good 45 minutes, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (00:41:26) - Yes.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:26) - I mean, we are getting towards the end of our time and this has been such a fascinating discussion, such an amazingly interesting story that you have. But before I let you go, I'm going to ask you the way I sum up with everybody, you know, have you ever had the Ikea meatballs?

Travis Madison (00:41:42) - I have no idea what that is.

Speaker 3 (00:41:44) - No.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:44) - Okay, so I'm not sure whether they they have them everywhere, but it's like when they have the restaurants, they sell these particular Ikea meatballs with the very weird flavors and the mashed potato. And it's kind of like one of those things. My opinion is that nobody really likes them. But because you're at Ikea and you're at the restaurant, you have to eat the meatballs. And so, so it's like the thing that you have to do, you don't really want to do it, but you have to do it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:42:10) - And in terms of like living a great, clean, sober life, you know, what is the one thing you think people should be doing even though they probably don't want to do it?

Speaker 3 (00:42:19) - I would say.

Travis Madison (00:42:20) - Going to meetings and connecting with other people that are also living that sober life. I mean, at first I'm going to be real with you. It's awkward and it can be uncomfortable, especially sharing in front of large groups when if you're not used to that and that's not something that you've practiced. It's daunting. It's it's hard to open yourself up like that. But the more practice and the more that you see your parallels and other people's stories and that you can learn from them and that you can help each other, all of a sudden you're like, look, I can build this great support network, and it's just a matter of embracing that awkwardness at first to kind of move to a point where you can make progress and to really share and hopefully build some lasting relationships.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:43:09) - Oh man, there's so much in what you just said.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:43:12) - You know, there's that kind of like building the support system, building the community that is so important. But there's also that idea of kind of sharing your story, as we've already talked about and burdening yourself. But I think there's something so powerful in realizing that, you know, you're not actually different from all of these people that we know. We've done different things, we've walked different paths. Maybe it was even different substances. But at the end of the day, we've all done things that are, you know, that make us more similar than, than than they are different. And, you know, we all start off thinking we're special. You know, I'm the only I'm the only one this applies to. I'm unique. But actually that that ability to realize that we are all absolutely the same. I think that's enormously powerful. It's that's something that's been important to you as well.

Travis Madison (00:44:01) - Um, it really has. I mean, I think, like I said, with caring for something outside myself and kind of getting over the idea that I am terminally unique, like, and looking at it like, okay, there are commonalities and there's there's things that other people have gone through that I can learn from and I should be learning from.

Travis Madison (00:44:23) - I think it's, it's to say ignorant in a sense that if you think you're always the smartest person in the room and know the best, that's not going to get you very far. So learning from others and being able to care for something other than yourself, really to me, has been key in my overall success, because otherwise I could very easily have stayed stuck where I was.

Speaker 3 (00:44:50) - And you know the truth, Travis.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:44:51) - Today people have learned an awful lot from you. So, uh, my thanks, uh, my deep, deep thanks for that. But, um. How. Can people find out more about all of the good work that you're doing?

Travis Madison (00:45:01) - The best way to connect with me is actually through Facebook. Um, I'm also on LinkedIn if you're interested in learning more about my story on my life with karma. The best avenue would be through Amazon. Otherwise, it's at all major retailers in the United States for books, so you can pretty much go online and find it almost anywhere.

Travis Madison (00:45:23) - But I keep it. Sale price on Amazon. Um, the e-book is only $0.99 and the paperback is 999. I do that because I feel like anyone who wants to learn my story, wants to learn from me, should be able to. If there's still a barrier there, I encourage people to reach out and I'll make sure they get a copy.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:45:44) - That's so generous of you, man, and I think that is so important. I mean, I happen to be looking at a very high end recovery program the other day just for the fun of it. And I know there are some very expensive places you can do the rehab thing in America, but not everybody necessarily has that luxury. So, um, you know, thank you for for making it available to, to people, um, because most people can find $0.99.

Travis Madison (00:46:08) - Right, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I would hope so. I mean, instead of a pint, you know, buy a book.

Speaker 3 (00:46:15) - Yeah. Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:46:16) - Well, there's an irony in that that, uh, I certainly never struggled to find the money for the booze or the or the smokes or the drugs or any of that.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:46:24) - Look, you know, thank you so much for your time. It's such a fascinating, uh, a really I mean, I talk to a lot of people who've got a lot of interesting stories. And, uh, when I say you have a very, very different, very interesting, uh, unique story, I think everybody should be going out and reading your book. Um, fascinating stuff. So thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Travis Madison (00:46:48) - Thank you again for having me on. And yes, I enjoyed all of our conversations. So thank you.

Speaker 3 (00:46:54) - Again.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:46:54) - No problem. So have a great day.

Speaker 3 (00:46:56) - You too. Thank you.