Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:00:00) - Hey there, soba superstars! Welcome to another edition of Flat-Pack Sober, your catalog of tips, tricks, and tactics to help you design your alcohol-free life. Today I am joined by a very exciting guest. She's a coach and an author and she has a real passion for creating a positive impact. She helps unfulfilled but ambitious women to find the impact that they've got to make on the world, and really to embrace and define their purpose in life. She is also a massive advocate for living organ donation and I am totally excited about today's episode. So Sabrina, thank you so much for joining us.
Sabrina Busch (00:00:44) - Thank you for having me.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:00:46) - So I always start with the same question because, you know, I don't like to prep too much. So are you familiar with Ikea? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know about them. So if I gave you some IKEA furniture, the flat pack job, what would be your approach as you went about trying to build?
Sabrina Busch (00:01:01) - Follow the instructions. That's that's a good stuff.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:05) - Would you kind of sit down with the instruction booklet, read through it, and have a cup of tea whilst you're doing it?
Sabrina Busch (00:01:10) - Probably not. No, I would skim it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:13) - You skim through it and then just kind of get stuck in.
Sabrina Busch (00:01:16) - Yes. And then start somewhere.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:19) - Okay, cool. Is that sort of the approach that you like to take to life if you've got a problem, do you sort of like a little bit of reading the instructions but basically just get stuck in?
Sabrina Busch (00:01:29) - I see where you're going with this. I'm a chronic fixer, so I might be different than most. As soon as I hear a problem, my mind is going, how can I fix this? How can I help the situation? So there's definitely no reading of instructions or pausing. It's definitely jump in and let's fix it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:47) - You're like dynamic. You're what we call the dynamo. That's your kind of like sober style is to just just get on with it. Just do it. That's why I like to start with this because I like to help everybody get a bit of an idea of where you're coming from.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:00) - The listeners are interested. They can go to Flatpack sober.com and they can find out there. So the style and if it matches yours, then the kind of stuff that you're going to say is probably going to resonate really well with them. Of course, if it doesn't match yours, then maybe they should pay even more attention to you because you're probably working on stuff that they're desperately trying to avoid. And I'm sure you're aware that there is more than enough information on the internet, and I think it's irresponsible for us to add to it without giving it the context of where you're coming from, so people can listen to it and understand whether it's right for them. So tell us a little bit more about yourself. What do you do? Where do you come from?
Sabrina Busch (00:02:35) - So I am in Wisconsin, US. I'm in finance. Recently I started a journey to become a life purpose coach. I have two kiddos, 19 and 12. Pretty much summed it up before.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:49) - So I mean for me purpose and meaning they're really important.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:54) - So what kind of benefits does it give to people if they do have some clarity around their purpose in life?
Sabrina Busch (00:02:59) - And you chose the exact word I like to use when I talk about purpose is clarity. It helps you have a focus. It helps you stay on track. It helps keep you guided. There's always temptation out there. There's always detours life might throw at you. But when you are focused on your purpose and your passions, you are able to redirect yourself a lot quicker. Having a purpose makes you feel more fulfilled, more self-confident, and just be able to go through life with a little more enthusiasm knowing that what you're doing is valuable.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:03:32) - I am a huge fan of enthusiasm, by the way. So tell us a little bit about your journey with alcohol then.
Sabrina Busch (00:03:38) - I don't know how many people are familiar with Wisconsin, but alcohol is involved in everything we do. From a very young age. Kid birthday parties are based more around what kind of alcohol is going to be there then the kids themselves.
Sabrina Busch (00:03:52) - Everything you do, everywhere you go, somebody has a beer in their hand or is offering me one. It's become a very normal part of our lifestyle around here. Two and a half years ago, I donated a kidney and that's where my walk with sobriety started. A few months before the surgery, I chose to not drink. It wasn't required, but for me, it was important to be able to think through the process and make sure I was making the right decision with a clear head. And the transplant team told me that the healthier I go into the surgery, the quicker the recovery period would be, and that was extremely important to me. Yeah. So that's where I started. I was gonna.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:04:33) - Say, were you drinking at a normal level? But there's this normal for Wisconsin and therefore quite dangerous I don't know. How would you describe your drinking before that? Was it excessive or.
Sabrina Busch (00:04:43) - I feel I was pretty moderate compared to other people. I also bartended for most of my adult life as a part time job.
Sabrina Busch (00:04:51) - So just again, being in that scene, it's very easy to have a drink or when you're working, when you're done working, anything like that, that becomes the culture. To become a part of. I feel like I was pretty careful about it, though. I was never I don't have any horrific stories, thankfully, that I got into trouble. I don't remember things, anything like that. The biggest thing for me was the hangover. The next day was honestly the worst.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:17) - So when you decided to stop, it was purely for the transplant, for the getting the good results. And once you've done the transplant, once you've recovered, why not start drinking again?
Sabrina Busch (00:05:28) - I did for a brief time. I don't know why, which is still so weird to me. If you asked me what is the happiest I've ever been, or what was that period of my life like, I can 100% say it's when I wasn't drinking again. I think it just felt like a normal thing to do around here, and everything we do is based around that.
Sabrina Busch (00:05:47) - I was also going to a friend's wedding on a yacht in Florida, and to me, I was just like, that doesn't sound like everybody's going to be drinking. And I know I don't have to be a part of everybody, but it just felt, I don't know. Either way, I got suckered back into it. My own choice. That didn't last too long. I didn't enjoy it again. I was struggling with the same things I was before and the emotional part of it. Like I would get super emotional and think all the worst things in life and the pity party stuff, and that's just not who I want it to be or who I wanted to show off as.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:20) - So you what might be regarded as kind of like a temporary period for a specific reason. And then when you started again, you didn't realize you weren't enjoying it, that your life was so much better without alcohol. So you just knocked it on the head?
Sabrina Busch (00:06:33) - Yeah. There was a couple times where there was little slip ups where I'm like, maybe I can just be an occasional drinker.
Sabrina Busch (00:06:39) - I love, especially in Wisconsin and fall, like visiting the wineries, the new wines they come out with I that is probably what I miss the most, but I learned very quick that that's not an option and it does nothing for you.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:53) - Did you have any helpful help or support when you stopped drinking, or was it just the traditional Wisconsin stubbornness?
Sabrina Busch (00:07:01) - It was absolutely the stubbornness. I noticed when I go through that or bring myself back to not being a part of that culture, I really isolate myself. It's not that I'm afraid that I'll be pressured if I'm out, but again, a lot of things we do around here is let's go to the bar, let's go grab a drink, let's go out to eat. But that includes drinking. And I just did not want to waste my time being in a bar, not being productive.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:28) - That's quite interesting, because I'm sure you you'd agree that community is is important not simply to recovery, but to life. I mean, we are social creatures, aren't we? So what have you found in terms of building a community that's maybe a little bit away from alcohol?
Sabrina Busch (00:07:45) - I spend a lot of time looking for things outside of alcohol to do.
Sabrina Busch (00:07:49) - I'm very outdoorsy, so that definitely makes it easier. And like I said, I'm not opposed to being around it. I'm not against it. It's just I don't want that to be the center of what we're doing. So Wisconsin has a lot of fairs and festivals and Fall Fest right now and stuff like that. Farmers markets. So I'm just trying to be creative. I have noticed though, that and I expected it. But the friends that drop off when you suggest, hey, let's go to the farmer's market instead of let's go for a drink at the bar.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:08:18) - Yeah, yeah. Well, that's kind of an interesting, uh, would you say the the ones that don't drop off, the ones that go to the farmers market with you, are they the ones that you had a deeper connection with in the first place, or do you just have more in common with them now?
Sabrina Busch (00:08:32) - I would say a little bit of both. There were a couple friends that did surprise me and I was kind of disappointed, but obviously looking back, those are the people that I had a closer connection with because they supported and are perfectly fine with it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:08:46) - Somebody loves you and values you for who you are. They're going to love you and value you in spite of what you do. It's a fairly good test, isn't it?
Sabrina Busch (00:08:55) - Yeah, absolutely. It was. It was a big eye opener.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:08:58) - So have you joined any specific communities, any any groups or anything like that?
Sabrina Busch (00:09:03) - I have not personally. For me, I was fortunate because I was in the position that I had a very good why behind it. So that definitely helped. I know it's not as easy for some people, definitely. But again, I don't think I was too wrapped up in it that it was harder for me. It wasn't a physical withdrawal for me or anything like that. So I think I was very fortunate in that situation. Well, I was able to do it on my own. There were some podcasts I listened to, and I am part of a Facebook group that I just follow once in a while, but that's about it, you.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:38) - Know, got a little bit of information, a little bit of cyber sphere seeping into your life, but it's definitely not at the heart of what's keeping you away from alcohol.
Sabrina Busch (00:09:47) - I think now, like, I feel like every period of your life you go through, you kind of grow with that season you're going through. So two and a half years ago, I quit drinking and didn't want to drink because of the kidney donation. And now it just kind of grew into being a life purpose coach. One of my core values is that I'm going to show up and give you 100% every single time, and I can't do that again if I have any alcohol in my system, if I'm not thinking clearly, if I'm hungover and I want to show up as a person that can inspire and motivate others, and that, unfortunately, doesn't include making a fool out of myself because I drink too much.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:10:29) - Well, I think that's so interesting, though, about, you know, showing up with 100% of you and being the best person that you can possibly be, and you're kind of like, you look at professional athletes in these days. Not many professional athletes drink alcohol at all, apart from Roger Federer, who gets a lot of money from champagne companies.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:10:47) - Apart from him, they don't drink. Novak Djokovic, uh, you know, most Grand Slams in the history of tennis doesn't drink. And they do that because the margins make the difference, don't they? I mean, it's that tiny little amount that makes the difference between winning Wimbledon and not winning it. But even in like everyday life, you know, the the amount that alcohol can take off your performance, it makes a big difference, doesn't it? And you've noticed that since you've stopped drinking?
Sabrina Busch (00:11:14) - Absolutely. Yes. Anybody who's been there who has tried to quit drinking, I know they can relate to this, but just getting up earlier, feeling better, starting your day, your workouts are more intense and you're more focused. You're more productive with your time. Looking back on it, it makes me a little sad how much time I wasted sitting in a bar or just drinking. Like it's social. It's good communication and good conversation with friends, but what a waste of time. Honestly, I know that sounds harsh, but it's true.
Sabrina Busch (00:11:45) - Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:47) - I know what you mean. I look at all the drinking that I did, and some of it was with people that I really love and I still spend time with and are important, and we had a genuine connection, but it is nice to not do it anymore. But I mean, I just like, listen to that list of stuff that you've just said about energy and focus and presence time. Honestly, if they could stick that in a pill, like how much money would the pharmaceutical industry made?
Sabrina Busch (00:12:13) - Absolutely. A friend and I were just talking about that yesterday. If they could a happy pill. Seriously, I know it. A lot of people would pay anything for that. But you can do it by just making the right decisions too.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:26) - What's wrong with our society that we think the solution is to add something like the magic pill? Add this to your life. It will help when the solution is actually just to stop drinking. Get out of your own way.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:39) - Subtract the stuff that's causing you the problem in the first place.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:44) - But yes, I don't know if you if you've got any solutions for like the entirety of society, I'd be I'd be happy to. Actually, if you don't mind, could we just discuss the donation thing a little bit? Because I'm. I used to do some work for the British equivalent of the kind of transplant dudes. Okay, so what sort of motivated you to do it? How did it come about?
Sabrina Busch (00:13:07) - Social media. I saw a friend from high school post that her mom was in need of a kidney, and it's always been something in the back of my mind. Not that I wanted to donate a kidney because that I never would have imagined that, but that I wanted to do something big enough for somebody that would change their life. I just never knew what that looked like. So when I scrolled and saw that post, I knew immediately I was, that's it. That's that's what I'm here to do. That's what I meant to do.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:33) - A proper jam like it was.
Sabrina Busch (00:13:36) - It was. I don't have those moments a lot, but that was one of them where I'm like, yeah, I'm meant to give an organ out of my body.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:45) - Are you still working with the of the National Health Service that does that? And what I was struck me was like, you can go even further than that. You can give an actual genuine part of yourself. I think that's so special. I think that's enormous. So congratulations.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:59) - That is amazing. That is amazing. So have you found any products that have helped you to kind of steer clear of alcohol over the last few years?
Sabrina Busch (00:14:08) - Again, I have not I know people use like the mocktail, drinks and stuff like that, the alcohol free wine or products like that. To me, I'm kind of a health nut a little bit. Not all the time, that's for sure. But I do watch like calories and everything like that. So to me that's empty calories. But I know it's extremely helpful to some people.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:32) - I'm glad you said you're not perfect because we don't really like perfect on this podcast. We like people still have the odd flaw, but you mentioned you're a bit of a health nut. So did that go hand in hand with stopping drinking, or was that before or after?
Sabrina Busch (00:14:45) - It definitely intensified after I quit drinking, before I felt like I would go through the motions of working out and everything. But anybody who does drink quite a bit can understand that once you're drinking. You pretty much eat anything? Um, I know I would get home at night and be super hungry, so then I would just eat whatever was easy and fast. So I think it definitely made my focus easier not having to worry about that.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:13) - Oh, it's kind of interesting, isn't it? So it's like kind of healthy living. It was a part of your identity. It was a part of who you were and a part of what you were trying to achieve. But the alcohol was definitely getting in the way of that.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:25) - So once you move that, it allowed that to really flourish and blossom.
Sabrina Busch (00:15:29) - Yes. And your thought process too, like I said, I was an emotional one, not necessarily in the moment because I would be the social one, the life of the party one. But in the aftermath, when I started to deal with the hangover or not feeling well, I would get into that pity party and for me, why me? And that wasn't healthy by any means.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:51) - Oh, okay. So as much as anything, it's, you know, it's improved your mental health as well as your physical health.
Sabrina Busch (00:15:57) - Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:59) - I mean, for sure, those two things go hand in hand. And obviously you've got into coaching a little bit. You probably spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like mindset. So would you say there's been a big change in your mindset since you stopped drinking?
Sabrina Busch (00:16:11) - Yes.
Sabrina Busch (00:16:12) - Again, being more intentional with my time when I stopped drinking and put my mind to the mind coaching or the life coaching, I was able to build the business from the ground up and sign my first paying client within seven weeks, which I never would have been able to do that before.
Sabrina Busch (00:16:30) - There's no way I would have been so distracted. I would have spent so much time on other things. But just that focus and being intentional with my time and making sure I'm being productive instead of wasting time made a world of a difference.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:46) - I remember those days. So would you say that your purpose has changed since you stopped drinking? Or has it intensified?
Sabrina Busch (00:16:55) - I think my purpose changed. I think I've always been trying to figure out what it looked like. I thought the kidney donation was my purpose, but that fulfilled me for a very temporary amount of time. And then I was feeling empty again. I was feeling lost again. I have a great career in finance. I love it, but at the end of the day, it doesn't fill my heart up. I don't go home and be like, Holy cow, I made a difference in the world today. So I think the not drinking really led me to self-reflection and figuring out what I wanted this next chapter of my life to look like.
Sabrina Busch (00:17:29) - And that's where I figured out more of a purpose. And I want to help people every single day, instead of once in a blue moon.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:17:36) - That really does interest me. So you spent a lot of time reflecting on what it was that you wanted to do. And when you work with clients, is that generally, is it quite a reflective, quite internal process for defining their purpose?
Sabrina Busch (00:17:49) - Absolutely. As a coach, I try not to go too far. In the past, I feel like that's more meant for a therapist or somebody who's licensed to be able to handle those things. But I do feel that you need to spend a little time there to realize what was good in your life, what wasn't good, and what changes you want to make. So the first step, I have a seven step program that they go, and the first step is self-reflection and forgiveness.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:14) - Forgiveness. That's a biggie as well, isn't it? Guessing. You consider forgiveness to be pretty important. Have you gone through a process of kind of like self-reflection, forgiveness around your drinking? I mean, something that you've spent some time on?
Sabrina Busch (00:18:29) - Yeah.
Sabrina Busch (00:18:29) - Again, I hate to use the word waste, but that's still something I bring up when I talk about it. A lot of times I just look back at how much time I wasted, even like I took my kids on vacation two times this year, and it's not like I was drinking a lot, but we would have dinner or whatever and I'd be drinking. They weren't getting 100% of me, so I'm working on the forgiveness in that. I know I can't go back, but I can go forward.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:57) - That's such an interesting build. But what strikes me, you're quite dynamic. You like to to get things done and you're talking about self-reflection and introspection. And I'm quite introspective and reflective, and I think that part of the way I've been able to find my purpose in life is actually going out and doing stuff. And like in the service of other people is where I have found what I am supposed to do. So one of those two things lends themselves better to a coaching experience. But do you think there is something in that kind of like actually being quite active and just trying things and seeing what works?
Sabrina Busch (00:19:35) - Absolutely.
Sabrina Busch (00:19:36) - I wholeheartedly believe that sometimes you just need to make the jump and figure it out as you go. I know not everybody can live by that or feels that same way, but I definitely feel that's a big part of it. And I also agree with you that I feel like your life purpose or purposes, because I do feel like you definitely have more than one is involved with. Making a difference or making an impact in the world. It's not just to make your life better.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:04) - Yeah, and of course, the irony is, if you make other people's lives better, you do actually make your life better. I mean, I guess that's one of the things that if you like to reflect and you like to grab all of the information together, you know, you're never going to just jump straight in there. But it's about learning that point of when enough information is enough information, when you've done enough thinking that goes directly into self-awareness and reflection and getting to know yourself better.
Sabrina Busch (00:20:33) - Yeah, and I do know that it's one thing for people that have been big drinkers and then become sober is that they are stuck with their thoughts and their real life, and that is usually the biggest challenge because people usually use the alcohol to take that away.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:53) - Whatever it is, I think most people I've ever met, they have an element of trying to escape from something, whether that is very serious childhood trauma at one end or just quite an annoying boss at the other end. You know, everybody is trying is under the illusion that alcohol helps them to escape from that. And of course, it doesn't because it doesn't get you any further away from it. Yeah, you're not running away from it. You're running around it. And that's just plain tiring, isn't it? I guess that's one of the things that people find hard. They stop drinking, you know, they stop poisoning themselves and it starts to feel better physically. They feel better. Then they get the emotions or the thoughts or the practical problems that they were trying to ignore. By drinking those kind of they have to face them a little bit more and that can be quite difficult. Any advice for people who are kind of now looking at their their thoughts and their feelings and saying, I'm a bit lost, I don't know, what should I do? Where, how do I approach it?
Sabrina Busch (00:21:54) - The biggest thing is to have a support group.
Sabrina Busch (00:21:57) - It doesn't have to necessarily be your friends and family, but use social media, use strangers, use whoever you can because there's so many other people in the same boat that are happy to connect with you. Like one of the biggest thing is, oh, I had a rough day. I need a drink. If you have a rough day, have an alternative thing to do. Go to the gym, go on a walk, whatever it may be for you. I think just having other options. And as for sitting with your feelings, it's going to be awful. I'm not going to lie and say, oh, you'll be fine. It's going to be awful at first, but that is the only way that you're going to truly heal. And once you process everything that you need to process, it will be good. Like you will not have to keep revisiting it or it won't keep coming up. The alcohol again just dilutes it and makes it not seem as bad. But then it comes up and comes up and comes up, and usually it gets worse and worse and worse.
Sabrina Busch (00:22:51) - So the only thing that worked for me was to sit through it. Like I said before, I isolated myself a lot, but I had to at first to be able to wrap my head around all those thoughts I was having and just all the feelings and stuff from the past that I'd never properly dealt with.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:09) - Yeah, and I guess that's the that's the bad news, people. It's not a quick fix, is it? It's not like pop this pill and all will be well, it actually does take a bit of effort and a bit of discomfort. And that, I guess, is why you're recommending we should find some fellow travellers on the road to please lighten the burden of beer.
Sabrina Busch (00:23:32) - And somebody you can reach out to in a pinch that you know is going to be supportive. And any time you get the temptation or something like that, you just need to have somebody in your corner.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:43) - Yeah. And I think what I've noticed from interviewing a lot of the sober superstars, you know, they all have that person, but they tend to have different type versions of that person.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:55) - So who is it for you? Who would you be reaching out to? I mean, you don't have to name names, but like, what do they do? How do you know them?
Sabrina Busch (00:24:02) - My biggest thing was I'm lucky where I have a great support group. In my friend group, I did use Facebook groups that focus on sobriety, sometimes listening or reading other people's comments and problems. It made you not feel so alone because you're like, oh, other people are going through this too. If you are struggling with something, being able to share it with others and get their advice and their feedback. And my religion played a big part in this. It was me and God talking a lot, and he was my goal too.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:31) - And that's, you know, some people it's gym buddy, some people it's the religious leader in their community. But for you it was more of a kind of internal, reflective relationship with God.
Sabrina Busch (00:24:43) - For me it was yeah, again, it's not for everybody, and I know that.
Sabrina Busch (00:24:47) - But there are plenty of resources available like for that support. And for that reason, yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:53) - I think you make such an interesting point about reading the stories on Facebook and go, oh yeah, I did that. And I'm realizing that you're not alone. And they call it terminal uniqueness in AA. Back in the day, it was like, well, no, all of these problems with alcohol, they don't apply to me because I'm different. I'm special, aren't I? And when I do group work with people, it's one of the things I enjoy the most is when that one, who's a little bit cynical and a little bit gnarly, sat on the edge of the group, and they'll kind of like get to the point where they realize that actually they are exactly the same as everyone else. You know, just breathe this massive sigh of relief and go, oh yeah, I am among friends, aren't I? You guys will get this. I thought it was just me.
Sabrina Busch (00:25:32) - And some of the things you like even now, still like looking back on it, some of the things I forgot about, it's a good reminder to as why I'm still doing this.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:41) - That is so important, isn't it? I mean, I can give you all of this and fancy pants psychology on it. You know, fading affect bias and but your brain has this tendency to remember the good stuff and forget the bad stuff. And if you kind of misinterpret the evening out, you fail to realize that the good stuff actually came from the time you spent with your friends, the fact that you were relaxed, the fact that you were in a nice place, the fact that you didn't have to worry about doing the washing up, you know, that's where the good stuff came from. But if you think that that good stuff came from alcohol, then your brain is just going to magnify that bit. They all forget the hangovers, and it makes sense that it protects you by magnifying the good and minimizing the bad. But do you think it is quite important for us to remind ourselves every now and again just how bad it is?
Sabrina Busch (00:26:27) - Yes, yes. Otherwise it's easy to slip back into.
Sabrina Busch (00:26:31) - I mean, as you were talking there, the thought that popped into my head is kind of like childbirth, like it's awful, the birthing part. But then it gives you this incredible new life and people do it over and over again. So. Yeah. So, I mean, the part of becoming sober might be awful, but it's going to give you a new life and people everywhere are doing it. I feel like it's becoming a lot more normal than it has been the past few years or at least in Wisconsin. Sorry, I don't think I answered your question there, though.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:27:04) - Upon another one of my obsessions. You know, like the foamy breaking bit of the wave, aren't we in? In 20 years time, everyone will be doing it so we can.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:27:15) - Yeah, yeah, we are proud of something. Cool to be sober. But no, I was just saying about reminding yourself how bad drinking was. You're talking about the Facebook groups. That was quite useful for that. Is anything else you've done that's helped you with that?
Sabrina Busch (00:27:27) - I think again, just the reflection.
Sabrina Busch (00:27:30) - Like I mentioned before, the vacations with my kids where I wasn't 100% giving them my attention, I think of all of the things I did that involved alcohol. My big thing was country concerts, and honestly, I probably don't remember. I remember them, but I did not enjoy them to the fullest. Because what do you do at a country concert, especially in Wisconsin? You tailgate for 4 or 5 hours before you go into the concert, and then you keep drinking in the concert. So I think just reminding yourself of those things that how much more enjoyable would this be if I wasn't drinking? And the biggest thing somebody said to me recently, we had an event on Saturday where we all get in ATVs and bar hop again, maybe just a Wisconsin thing, but I went. I didn't have any interest in drinking. Nobody pressured me. People didn't bother me or ask me why or anything like that. And I think just to remind yourself, what is the point of it? Is it going to help me at all? Where's it going to get me? And immediately your mind is going to say it's not worth it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:28:34) - But I really like that example that you used of being on holiday with you because that's kind of that's quite positive, isn't it? That's kind of like I am enjoying myself now because I am not drinking and I am able to do this. And that's kind of like stressing the positive rather than kind of just dwelling on the negative. So that's sort of like a double bonus.
Sabrina Busch (00:28:55) - And to like on vacation, like I said, it wasn't awful and I'm not that way ever with the kids, but it was just kind of like, where's the beer stand at Disney? Or, you know, like whatever it may be. And just my priorities were not there.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:29:10) - I have to say, I remained entirely sober when I went to Disney World, but I was 11 at the time, so that's fair. Anyway, have you found any other ways of behaving or kind of actions that have been really useful to you?
Sabrina Busch (00:29:23) - I think again, just understanding your why, like why you chose this route, why it's important to you.
Sabrina Busch (00:29:30) - I have to consistently remind myself of that. Like, again, if I'm going to show up and help other people, I can't do that after a night of drinking. So I think it's just determining your why and reminding yourself of it. There's going to be different things for everybody. Things that works for me aren't going to work for everybody, but don't be hard on yourself and figure out what is going to work for you, and don't try to do it alone.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:29:55) - I cannot argue with any of that. And obviously you've been developing the coaching. What's your approach to coaching?
Sabrina Busch (00:30:04) - The program was born from my own transformation. Again, being sober, I was in a great job that I loved, but the environment was completely toxic. I was in an unhealthy relationship. My kids are 19 and 12. They have more of a social life than me. So when they're with their friends or at work and I'm sitting there like, now what I started to question, like, what's next in life? I know there's more.
Sabrina Busch (00:30:30) - And that's where I started going through. I had to figure out for me what was next and what would make my life feel more fulfilling. And with the kids getting older, I also realized that I've dedicated all of those years to them. And it's not that's not going to change, but I never took the time to focus on myself. So my program is a seven step program, 90 days, and it goes through seven steps that I went through myself to figure out my purpose and how I can make a difference in people's lives.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:31:04) - Yeah. So it's kind of like working on yourself and being a little bit selfish, but not really in a selfish way.
Sabrina Busch (00:31:09) - Yes, exactly. I in my mission statement, I wanted to use the word like guiltless or something like that because I feel like especially as moms, we feel guilty for taking time to ourselves or putting ourselves first. And that is one thing I struggled with for a long time. And I see a lot of other clients struggle with that. It's okay to put yourself first and you have to put yourself first.
Sabrina Busch (00:31:35) - The best thing you can do for the ones that you love and care about is to take care of yourself. You can't pour from an empty cup.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:31:43) - I was going to go with you. Got to put your oxygen mask on first.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:31:47) - You're not looking after yourself. You're not going to look after anybody. And I absolutely see where you're coming from. I mean, there is so much pressure these days. You know, you've got to have the perfect career. You've got to be the perfect parent. And like, once you've fulfilled all of society's impossible demands on you, when on earth do you find any time for yourself?
Sabrina Busch (00:32:10) - Yes, you are pretty much quoting in different words something I read this morning that was along those same lines. It definitely stuck with me. Like the ones that have built a successful life and have done everything that they thought they should do and are still feeling lost or confused or unfulfilled. I think having that focus definitely helps sober people stay on that right path to instead of being pulled away by temptation or stress or other things that can creep up in there.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:32:42) - And you know what? I think that is one of the privileges of the kind of work that we do that I think we both work with people who are outwardly very, very successful. And a lot of people would look at them and go, oh, you've got the perfect life. Everything is ideal for you. You clearly can't have any problems at all. And then you dig below the surface a little bit and you find a lot of interesting stuff, I'm guessing.
Sabrina Busch (00:33:04) - And I think a lot of people surprised themselves, too, because I think we convince ourselves, hey, we're doing good, we have a good life. Like, I have built a good life for my kids, and I'm very fortunate. And I think we also put the pressure on that, that we shouldn't be complaining because we are fortunate. We are blessed, and complaining or not being happy about that makes us feel again, selfish. And we don't like that. But that's not the reasoning behind it. And that's not the way it has to be.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:33:35) - But I think that's such an important lesson. And if we can help even one person learn it, I think we're doing all right. But the idea that there are people in the world who are suffering more than you, but that does not mean you're suffering is meaningless or not valuable. It doesn't mean that you don't have pain in your life. You do. And your pain is important and you are absolutely right to do something about it. It doesn't make you selfish, it doesn't diminish the suffering of other people at all. And that honestly, that was quite a hard lesson for me to learn.
Sabrina Busch (00:34:05) - Yeah, and you kind of made me think of something else there too, is everybody thought I lived a picture perfect life, and outside looking in I'd probably look like that. But you don't know what people are dealing with internally, so be careful. Be gentle with other people. And if you're going through the process too. I spent a year off of social media. I had to take that time to put myself first, to have my own thoughts and not be influenced or pressured, or trying to keep up with everybody else on social media.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:34:38) - You know, that's why I like to have a variety of people on the show, because what I want people to do is take what works from everybody and then design their own version of sober, you know, don't try to be sober like me. Don't try to be sober like you find your own way. Because once you do, then you're going to thrive and you're going to love it.
Sabrina Busch (00:34:58) - Yes and that's going to be unique. And it might be something that we've never even thought of before. So feel free to share your journey to.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:06) - You know, I think Twitter said there are as many paths to sobriety as there are parts up the mountain. Maybe you didn't say it exactly like that, but that was what he meant.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:16) - Anyway just before I let you go, I have to ask you about the Ikea meatballs. Have you ever had the Ikea meatballs?
Sabrina Busch (00:35:22) - I have not, no.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:24) - Okay, so this is my theory on the subject. Everybody hates the meatballs, but they eat them every time they go to Ikea because, like, even though they hate them, they have to eat them in Ikea because they're in Ikea.
Sabrina Busch (00:35:35) - I didn't even know that was the thing. No.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:37) - Well, it's not really. It's just a very weak segue into the idea of staying sober. What's the thing that people don't want to do, but they really should do? What's the thing that they hate doing? But they really should, and it will help them stay sober.
Sabrina Busch (00:35:51) - I'm going to go back to sit with your feelings. Don't cover them up. Don't try to be strong. One of my biggest examples there is I thought I was a very strong individual when my mom passed away, and I bounced back immediately, but that definitely came up to kick me in the ass later down the road and it wasn't good. So sit with your feelings. Don't feel like you have to be strong. Don't feel like you have to be resilient. You don't have to bounce back. Take your time. Go through the process. Go through the feelings. Let yourself heal.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:26) - Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Just because Instagram goes at a thousand miles an hour, it doesn't mean everything in life has to.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:33) - In fact, some things you just don't rush, you know?
Sabrina Busch (00:36:35) - Yes.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:36) - Oh, cool. I mean, thank you so much for your time before I let you go, where can people find out more about what you do and get in touch with that sort of thing?
Sabrina Busch (00:36:44) - Sure. So I have a Facebook group. It's called Empower Unleash Your Purpose, and that is strictly for women right now that are looking to fulfill their life and not sure where to start. I have a website, Sabrina Lynne Bush, and then Bush is spelled like Bush beer. So Bush and then I do have a business page on Facebook as well. I'm not big into social media, so this was a stretch to even get those up. But I don't do Instagram or anything like that.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:37:12) - Thank you so much for your time. I really that honestly, that's been a really very interesting conversation from quite an interesting take on stopping drinking, but you're clearly loving it. And that's the main thing.