Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:00:00) - Hey there sober superstars! Welcome to Flat-Pack Sober, your catalogue of tips, tricks and tactics to design your alcohol free life. Now, I've been very lucky over the years. I've interviewed some really, really interesting and massively successful people and sometimes what they do is their assistant will send me their media pack and say, oh, have you got everything you need, darling? And I think that today's guest be a little bit different to that. In fact, I'm pretty confident he doesn't have a media pack. Probably just introduce him by saying he's a great guy and he's got a job and he's got a family and he's got a hobby. And the thing is, what I think he's going to prove today is that you don't have to be some kind of giant big shot. You know, I think it's really, really important that if you have walked down the path, then you have something valid and you have something important and you have something interesting to say. So you mean no pressure. But I hope you're going to prove me right today.
Benjamin Furnival (00:00:59) - No pressure.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:00) - And pressure. So. So just before we get into maybe a slightly more complete biography, shall we say, I'm guessing that you are familiar with Ikea furniture. You know, the whole flatpack thing, right?
Benjamin Furnival (00:01:15) - Absolutely. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:16) - Oh, so if I gave you, I don't know, Billy bookcase, a little bit of Ikea furniture asked you to build it, what would be your approach? How would you get started?
Benjamin Furnival (00:01:27) - In fact, I threw one of those away the other day. Been there, done that, put loads of loads of Ikea stuff together by coming to me. I'm with DIY because I love DIY so you know, fine, absolutely no problem.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:38) - Yeah, you just get stuck in or everything out, open the.
Benjamin Furnival (00:01:42) - Box and just go for it, put some music on. That's sort of after I've moved on with whatever I'm doing.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:47) - So I like the music. That's a nice touch. What what are you listening to? Oh.
Benjamin Furnival (00:01:51) - All sorts of things., the jam is probably the biggest one for me.
Benjamin Furnival (00:01:54) - Paul, big Paul Weller fan. Anything special? Ska, mod, all that kind of stuff.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:59) - Like you've. That's how you raided my record collection, but it's all MP3 these pieces. So what you have to my music collection, but,, no. Excellent. So look, do you just generally kind of get stuck in do you get started with stuff? Is is that your sort of approach to problems, your approach to life in general?
Benjamin Furnival (00:02:18) - Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Probably hit the nail on the head there. Like people think about stuff before they really get stuck in. But I just I just go for it. I think nine times out of ten anyway, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:30) - That's absolutely cool. And you know what I like to to do right at the start is how people get an idea of what your sober style is. So you're obviously the dynamo you like to get stuck in. You like to do things, and that is cool. And we like to start with that because some people are going to be like, oh yeah, Benjamin, I am with you on that.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:47) - Stick on the jam, get stuck in and some people there may be a bit more reflective and they won't kind of like necessarily approach things like that. So I think it helps people to understand that where you're coming from. So what you say might resonate a lot with them. And then they, you know, they won't struggle to follow that advice, but actually it might not resonate with them. And sometimes that means you really need to take that piece of advice. So now we've worked out where you're coming from. Tell us a little bit about your journey with alcohol.
Benjamin Furnival (00:03:16) - I would say I was a heavy drinker or definitely a regular drinker, not sort of not spirits. I did enjoy my beer bit too much. I'm talking sort of 8 to 10 cans a night every night come from quite a sociable family., so alcohol's always been around parties, barbecues, that kind of thing. So it's always been the norm, not forced upon you, but it's, you know, it's always been there. I tried to quit a couple of times successfully for long periods.
Benjamin Furnival (00:03:41) - I sort of did dry January once, and that ended up going to the end of March. And then I think it was about four years ago, or sort of wanting to get into a bit of sort of tone myself up a bit. So not the beer on the head. I was doing fine for a couple of months, and then Christmas sort of comes along and you're like, are you gonna have a drink? You're not going to be boring. Or you go, I'll go, and then I'll have one. One turns into two and then you have some the next night. And then before you know, you're back to square one. That's been my sort of journey, so tried moderating. It doesn't work for me. And sure, a lot of people are the same. So I was like, I tried moderating, didn't work. So I sort of made the decision decision last year to,, to go for it full hog.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:04:19) - And did you do you have any support? Did you use a particular system or did you just go.
Benjamin Furnival (00:04:25) - Right, literally that I saw I did the same with smoking like, oh God, 25 years ago. Just decided I didn't. If I think I've finished the ones I'd got on that day, and that was it, saying we thought we'd be really I, I'd got some in the house, finished them, so there's nothing left in the house. And then that was it. I did buy some,, some non-alcoholic stuff, some alcohol free beers.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:04:46) - I think we're going to talk about that a little bit more in in a while. But before we get into that, like, you didn't even have the symbolic like, I'll pour the last ten down the,, around the sink. You didn't want to ask.
Benjamin Furnival (00:04:58) - I have done that before when I. When I saw one today myself, I got my kids to go and pour the rest. What was in the house? Down, down the toilet. So yeah, done that. But no, I just thought the last ones and that was it one night.
Benjamin Furnival (00:05:09) - Finished him.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:09) - Okay. Yeah. So do you think that the fact that you'd done that with the cigarettes in the past, do you think that kind of like, helped you?
Benjamin Furnival (00:05:16) - Yeah. With me it's all or nothing. And I know it had to be nothing. So that's just the way I dealt with it and didn't really think about it so much. I just knew I didn't want to do it anymore. Simple as.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:26) - That. But want of a better word you just got stuck in, right? Just went, let's not overthink it.
Benjamin Furnival (00:05:30) - I just didn't I don't do things half assed, basically, so.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:35) - Oh, and do you think there's any advantages to to getting sober that way? Do you think it's helped you in any way?
Benjamin Furnival (00:05:41) - I think it all depends on the person, doesn't it? You know, everyone's different. And so, you know, their approach, somebody else's approach to it is going to be completely different to mine. And he'll see you then, you know. And that's just the way it suited me.
Benjamin Furnival (00:05:52) - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:53) - So it suited you because it was your path. You found your way of doing it worked out very well for you and that's great. So if you were going to pick one thing and say, like, this is the thing that really helps me to stay sober, this is the kind of the thing I can't live without. What would that.
Benjamin Furnival (00:06:08) - Be? I think I just sort of focused on my kids really wanted to be a better role model for them., I've got three kids. One's one's grown up now. She's in her early 20s, but I've got two smaller kids. So yeah, I want it to be a better role model for them is probably the main reason or kept me focused anyway, for sure. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:25) - So it's all about kind of, you know, connecting with that kind of that purpose that you have for your life, but also that identity kind of a little bit about who you want to be, the father that you want to be.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:36) - Yeah. Oh, so have you made any other big changes since you got sober? There've been any sort of, like, really big life changes.
Benjamin Furnival (00:06:44) - Yeah, I wouldn't say change. Well, other than moving home, I, I were moving hopefully in a month, and I'm 100% sure I wouldn't be doing that if I was still drinking.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:53) - Okay. So why why wouldn't you be doing it?
Benjamin Furnival (00:06:56) - Because I'd be more concentrating on making sure that I've got money left over for a drink each night. Oh, okay. So.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:03) - So it's mostly the money you got. Like you're going to afford to live somewhere nice, and now you're not spending all that money on beer.
Benjamin Furnival (00:07:09) - Yeah, I mean, I could have done it before. Nothing's changed financially., I'm not in a in a different job or anything., I haven't had a massive pay rise or anything like that. It's just I'd just be more focused on, you know, what I want to do from now on. And before, it would have just been making sure I've got a drink each night, you know, and for the rest of the month, I suppose up until the next payday.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:29) - It's something a bit deeper than just the money then, isn't there? There's is the the kind of like focus that we were so focused on getting a drink. That was what was important. Everything else kind of got pushed to one side. Yeah.
Benjamin Furnival (00:07:41) - Yeah, absolutely.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:07:42) - So I always kind of like to ask people if there are any products that they use that have helped them stay sober. So,, have you found anything useful.
Benjamin Furnival (00:07:51) - As in the alcohol free sort of beers? Yeah. I mean, I tried loads of different types and I found the Aldi and Lidl ones I preferred out of some of the, the main brand ones,, Heineken ones. Okay., which ones I didn't like. I didn't like the Budweiser one. I did Budweiser do one. I think BrewDog ones are horrible as well. I didn't like them, but they went straight in the bin. But what I did find is I because I suffer with gout and, because when people say, you know, you've got gout, all you need to cut out your rich live and cut out the alcohol because the,, you know, steaks and all that kind of stuff.
Benjamin Furnival (00:08:21) - So that was another reason for for quitting the alcohol. But then what I did find that it's, it was the purine that was in the alcohol free booze, which was just do me just as as much damage. So I've seen sort of pack them in. I do have one. Occasionally I'm like 1 or 2 on a weekend and that's about it. So I've packed all them in now. Really?
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:08:39) - Yeah. So I mean, I think there's a couple of very interesting things in, in that I don't. So I managed to give myself gout through excessive living as well. And I know a lot of people are just going to think that we're wimpy, wimpy blokes with our man flu and everything. But it hurts, doesn't it?
Benjamin Furnival (00:08:55) - It's flippin painful that it comes on. You can go to bed one night feeling absolutely fine and wake up in the morning and you literally cannot walk. It's strange and because I'm a keen runner as well. So every time I got gout it would just knock me out from doing that, which I found really upsetting.
Benjamin Furnival (00:09:10) - So that's what, like I say, main reason. Another main reason for quitting is to make sure I didn't get that lock to reduce. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:18) - And I mean alcohol plays a huge role in that. In fact, there was a study where they took people with incredibly well controlled gout. So they were actually in a hospital setting and they were having their meds, like totally monitored. They got it was really, really well controlled. And then just giving them a glass or two of wine, I think it was with their meals brought on an attack. So,, yeah, cutting out the alcohol, obviously like a really good idea if you've got gout. But what you're saying is that the alcohol free beer was bringing on attack as well.
Benjamin Furnival (00:09:51) - Yeah, yeah. It wasn't, because I was having I was on medication for the gout as well, but I was still getting it. And then it did some. Research on the internet and found out, speaking to doctors that it was the it's the purine and it's that's in the hops I believe.
Benjamin Furnival (00:10:05) - So he was just doing as much damage. So. Knocked them on the head pretty much. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:10:09) - You see I think that's so interesting. And look I mean I don't want to take anything away from anybody. You know, if you're going down the pub drinking eight pints of Heineken zero. And that's working out for you, you know, I don't let me stand in your way. But I think it is really interesting to kind of take that step back and say, well, actually there is a health implication of drinking these drinks. It's not the same as drinking water. There is more stuff in it than that, isn't there?
Benjamin Furnival (00:10:35) - Yeah, yeah. Again, no. Going back to that. Another reason why I wanted to sort of stop drinking alcohol freeze anyway. And you started using them just to sort of wean me off the because you've still got the habit, even if you're not having the alcohol, you're still in that drinking habit. So I wanted to sort of break away, you know, I'm fine with the alcohol.
Benjamin Furnival (00:10:53) - Don't need that at all. It doesn't bother me one iota, but I was still in the habit of drinking, still buying the the AF beers, so I just wanted to have a proper break away from it, which I have done now. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:05) - No. You see, I think that's really interesting as well, because I think a lot of us, we tend to sort of think of it as like you'd stop drinking. That is like a it's one day. And in fact, people will often say there one day, was it the 7th of October or did I make that up? Did you stop on the 7th of October? It was.
Benjamin Furnival (00:11:22) - The second. So it was last week.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:23) - It was close, wasn't it? But we're quite keen on our sober dates, aren't we? And again, I don't want to take that away from anybody. But I think what your story kind of illustrates is that really for you stopping was it was a period of time as much as anything else.
Benjamin Furnival (00:11:38) - Yeah, yeah.
Benjamin Furnival (00:11:39) - Put it on my LinkedIn post last week. I was glad to get to the 12 month sort of milestone, to a sort I can say, yeah, I've done it for a whole year now, but I think I've been so focused on worrying about something I don't do anymore or thinking about something I don't do anymore. So now I've got to 12 months, I can hopefully just sort of move on. Now we're not not thinking about that so much, if that makes sense.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:59) - Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I mean, a lot of things that I don't do anymore and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about them. You know, I don't I used to listen to some God awful music, but I don't I don't think about that anymore. It's not who I am. So I get that. And now you're more focused on who you are rather than what you used to do.
Benjamin Furnival (00:12:19) - Yeah, yeah. I mean, my little girl. So it was about a week before the sort of sober versary, as I call it.
Benjamin Furnival (00:12:25) - And I said to my little girl, I said, it's a whole week next week on the second, when I haven't had a drink. And you remembered the day I went, yeah, that's really sad. But that's my that's my daughter for you. She's. Yeah, she's only ten. But a comment like that typically I mean yeah it is a bit really. Yeah. But yeah. So now, now it's gone, I can just sort of move on. And I don't want to become one of those people. I going, well I don't drink or you know, and just tell people I don't drink. I don't want that to become me, I don't drink. It's fine. You know, I'm going to bang on about it so much now I feel. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:55) - No, no, I, I think that's really, really important. God, I love children. Yeah, but something that struck me about that is I'm sure you'll you'll recognize this when you have kids, right? They start off and their age is measured in days, isn't it? And then they age starts getting measured in week, and then it starts getting measured in months, and then it starts getting measured in years.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:16) - And then like your your eldest, it's measured in decades now because she said she's just 20 something, right?
Benjamin Furnival (00:13:22) - 22. Yeah. 22.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:24) - You think about that didn't you? But the same sort of thing with sobriety for you, you know, it started off days. It's weeks. It's months now. It's a year. It's kind of like it's not really a thing anymore. You're not kind of focused on it. Yeah.
Benjamin Furnival (00:13:39) - Correct. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:40) - Yeah. Brilliant. Although to be honest with you, if anybody has a one year old child, you should probably still focus on it a little bit.
Benjamin Furnival (00:13:46) - That's kind of important.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:13:47) - Free parenting advice that we chuck in there every now and again. So you joined any new communities. Have you found any groups of people really useful to help you with your sobriety?
Benjamin Furnival (00:13:57) - So I'm not on any social media other than links in which,, there's people on there, which I thank. Last week,, Laura Everson, who you did a podcast with.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:06) - Zero.
Benjamin Furnival (00:14:06) - Queen. She's been brilliant,, watching her journey following that., it's been amazing. So I catch up with her. Janet Headley. Sorry., Adam Smith, it's been a few people, so, yeah, a real good support group on LinkedIn. And it's not until you sort of until you're in it, until you're in the sobriety, you realize how many people out there all on the same sort of journey and like one big support group really all sort of helping each other, which have been a bit. Yeah, for sure.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:30) - And what I've found is that they're very generous people as well. They're, they're, you know, they're happy to share their time with you and their love and support. And that's that's really important as well, isn't it. Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin Furnival (00:14:40) - Yeah. Absolutely. Cool.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:41) - And I think it's very interesting that you mentioned LinkedIn because I don't go on TikTok. But other than that, you know, I'm pretty familiar with the sober communities on Instagram and Facebook and they are quite big and they are quite active.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:52) - But LinkedIn, you know, being more professional, being more work related, you would have thought it. Doesn't have a lot of support to it. But what you're saying is you found groups. Is it. But you. Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin Furnival (00:15:04) - Well, more sort of individuals really. I think LinkedIn's changed a lot sort of over, over Covid really. I mean, before it was it was all very work orientated and I think there's still people on there now which go, well, you know, this isn't Facebook. You shouldn't be putting stuff like that on here. But yeah, whatever. Don't read it. Move on. Go and read something else if that's if you're bothered about it. But there's a lot of personal stuff on there and I find it a great,, lot of supporting people on there. Yeah, yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:29) - And you haven't sort of you haven't found, I guess, anybody sort of criticizing you from a work point of view saying, oh, we don't want to think about that.
Benjamin Furnival (00:15:38) - No, no, no, absolutely not. Not at.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:15:40) - All. I guess it's probably something a little bit deeper in that, you know, the way you show up at work is, is very similar to the way that you show up at home, isn't it? Because you're the same person at work as you are at home? So that opportunity to kind of like think about you as a wider person, do you think that's something that social media needs to kind of wake up to?
Benjamin Furnival (00:16:00) - Yeah, I think so. Yeah, absolutely.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:02) - Would you say there's been a change in your mindset since you stopped drinking? Do you think about things differently?
Benjamin Furnival (00:16:08) - Yeah, to a degree, yeah. Like say with the house move. That's something I wouldn't have thought about last year. So that's changed me. That's that's got to be the biggest change.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:17) - You mentioned running. So,, I guess,, stopping drinking has had a positive impact on your running.
Benjamin Furnival (00:16:24) - Yeah, massively. I get up now 6:00 a couple of times a week.
Benjamin Furnival (00:16:27) - I'll go like this morning I went and dropped the 13 K running before work. I certainly wouldn't have done that last year. I was sort of rolled out the bed at quarter eight, you know, and got to work. I definitely wouldn't have done that last year., so that's that's changed by not drinking. You you're awake. I do parkrun on a Saturday morning as well, and I found while I'd be drinking on a, on a Friday night getting up to do parkrun, not feeling properly awake. So you just, I found I was just sort of battling myself constantly. So by not having that there I'm, I'm more consistent, which a lot of people will say they're sort of agree with it as well.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:17:03) - Yeah. So basic fact that you have more time as it were. So you're able to to run more, but it's also improved the quality of your training when you are doing it. Is that a good way of summing it up?
Benjamin Furnival (00:17:18) - Oh massively. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Benjamin Furnival (00:17:19) - When I look at back how I was sort of performing last year to how I am now, it's yeah, I've come a long way. I mean, it's not going to take it serious or anything, but you know, when I look back how I was last year, it's how I am now. Yeah, I've come a long way and really enjoying it, really enjoying it. So my fitness levels have gone up. Not drinking just has a knock on effect through a lot of things in your life.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:17:41) - Do you see that knock on effect? I mean, I totally agree with you, but do you think it's improved your relationships as well?
Benjamin Furnival (00:17:48) - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Does that many times where you, you drink so much on a night time and then the next morning you're trying to remember what you said. If you, you know, you fall out with somebody, things like that, that doesn't happen anymore. So some moments when I think back I was it was a bit cringe. I think I was and that was on your bed to put it in a.
Benjamin Furnival (00:18:05) - Yeah. Well that's way to put it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:07) - Yeah. Well we've all been there.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:10) - Sure, sure. Everybody listening along is not in a way. So how do you find socialising these days. Is it different. Is it better. Is it is you. Do you do it less. Do you do it more?
Benjamin Furnival (00:18:21) - No more. No less. I mean, it was a strange year, I say, because I come from quite a sociable family. We didn't have any sort of social occasions until about June, so I had a good sort of six, seven months before I, I had to socialise and we went away last Christmas as well. So the first and I was only, what, 6 or 7 weeks into it at that point. So that was good. I mean, I didn't have to sort of face Christmas or any. Sam's unsociable. I didn't have to go to any parties so I could have a bit of me time just to sort of get over my first Christmas, my first Christmas out of the way, which was fine.
Benjamin Furnival (00:18:50) - And then the first big family party was in June, and it was my mum and dad's,, big anniversary was this 50th, 60th. But it's fine. Nobody mentioned the fact that I was drinking. AFP is nobody really care to be honest. You know, doing their own thing. I think to a degree you sort of worry about what other people are thinking and you don't really have to, to be honest.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:19:08) - Yeah. I was having this conversation with somebody at the weekend. She was very worried about what other people were were going to think of her. And I was like, honestly, other people don't think about you. Other people think about the mortgage. They think about, you know, what? The idiot boss and his plans for world domination. They think about that odd rash that they've got. The last thing they're thinking of is what you've got in your hand. So.
Benjamin Furnival (00:19:32) - And if and if they are that worried about it and it bothers them that much, then they're not worth being around to them.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:19:38) - Well, I make you I make you absolutely right. I interviewed recently said sometimes you have to curate your friendship group, which I think is a rather nice way of putting it, but it sounds to me like, you know, your family are pretty cool with it. Your friends are pretty cool with it. It hasn't had that much of an impact.
Benjamin Furnival (00:19:52) - No, not at all.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:19:53) - I know that's that's probably been.
Benjamin Furnival (00:19:55) - Yeah, I suppose I've been looking I've never had a. A big like group of mates. I've never been one to go out after work or, you know, down the pub with the lads, so I've never sort of had that. Anyway., so I suppose I was lucky I never, I haven't had to give that element up if you, if, if you like.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:11) - So would you say that you're beyond alcohol now.
Benjamin Furnival (00:20:15) - I sort of say to people, I'm not drinking at the moment. I don't say I'm never going to drink again. I'm not drinking now, and I've got no plans to go back to it because I don't see what benefit is going to give me.
Benjamin Furnival (00:20:27) - How is it going to improve what I'm doing now if I just have a drink tonight other than a headache tomorrow? I went around somebody's house recently on a on a Sunday, and they had spent the whole of Saturday night early our Sunday morning drinking. And then they spent the whole Sunday. Well like hell. And I just thought, that's half your weekend gone and used to be me. But you just don't think about it when you're in the moment here. I'm not judging that person. It's up to them. It's their their journey, isn't it? But yeah, I look back and just thought that's that's what I would have done and I don't want to do that.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:57) - I think I think you're right. I mean, we don't we don't come from a point of judgement because, oh, how many weekends are used to ruin, you know, it would be a little bit much for me to suddenly claim to be a saint. But I guess it is an interesting observation, isn't it? You know, if you spend five, six hours drinking on Friday night, the same on Saturday night, you spend a even 4 or 5 hours Saturday and Sunday getting over it.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:21:23) - It's like, congratulations, you have a part time job.
Benjamin Furnival (00:21:27) - I was putting my wheelie bin out the other night, my recycling, and it was like it wasn't even half full now before it would have been full. So I think I think I've been man, things have died.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:21:38) - Well, I was a little bit worried about that shop I used to buy wine from. I spent like, what are they going to think?
Benjamin Furnival (00:21:45) - Oh no, they're going to go out of business.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:21:46) - In fact, when we were chatting the other day, did you say it was nice putting your recycling bin out and it not rattling?
Benjamin Furnival (00:21:51) - Yeah, it's quiet now. It's just been things.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:21:56) - Yeah. Because I actually live around the back of a pub and every now and again they empty their like kind of glass, the glass bin that they have where they put all of the bottles and it makes a god awful noise and it always sort of like makes me chuckle. It scares my wife, but it makes me chuckle because it does.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:13) - I used to think, oh yeah, that used to be me.
Benjamin Furnival (00:22:16) - Yeah. On a daily basis. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:17) - Oh well, look, I mean, it sounds like you're enjoying life a whole lot more. That's what I get. It's all being positive. There are no negatives for you.
Benjamin Furnival (00:22:24) - I certainly haven't found any. I know everyone's different, but I certainly haven't found any.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:28) - Yeah. And I think what I get from some of the things that you say, why would you go back? Because you can't see any advantage to it. Therefore why would you do it. And I there's so much power in that. It's like if you can't see the advantage of it, you can't miss it, can you?
Benjamin Furnival (00:22:44) - So yeah, that's exactly how I feel. Yeah. Perfect.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:46) - Perfect. So I don't know. Do you go to Ikea very much. Is it., well are you going to now? You're moving house?
Benjamin Furnival (00:22:53) - My mum texted me the other week. She said, could you take me to Ikea? I was like, yeah, sure.
Benjamin Furnival (00:22:57) - Okay, fine. She likes IKEA.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:22:59) - Does she like the meatballs?
Benjamin Furnival (00:23:00) - I think my mum does. I've never had them.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:02) - Oh, okay. See, my theory is that they always taste awful. It's just some people feel the need to eat them when they're in Ikea because it's like you go to, okay, you got to eat the meatballs, but nobody really likes them, which is sort of like my odd way of getting into this question. So what is the one thing about being sober that nobody really wants to do but everybody should do?
Benjamin Furnival (00:23:24) - I suppose they want what I've got now. They just can't see themselves doing it., it's the fear of missing out, isn't it?, fear of being different, which I think I've just put aside. And I've said before, it's it's my journey, not theirs. And you've got to be a little bit selfish. I suppose you've got to make it all about you initially, is how I felt anyway. Do you.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:43) - Know what? I don't think people say that often enough, but I do think getting sober is a selfish act to start off with.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:51) - But it gets you in a position where you can be a better father or a better employee. So it started off being selfish, but now is it something that allows you to give more?
Benjamin Furnival (00:24:02) - I think it's so much better as a dad. I've got more time for the kids. You know, you're up early on the weekends for them. You don't worry about. I mean, you don't worry so much about getting back from certain events so you can have a drink on a night time or like Saturday night. We went out to a fireworks display, which was a drive out. Well, I wouldn't have been able to do that before because I would have been drinking from 2:00 in the afternoon, probably. So it just has a massive knock on effect to the rest of your life. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:25) - So yeah, it started off as something that was for you, but has ended up giving to everybody. I think that is I think that's really nice. And you mentioned kind of the fear of missing out, but I guess you've got to a point now where you don't think you're missing out because if it doesn't have any benefit, you're not missing out, are you? Yeah.
Benjamin Furnival (00:24:42) - Absolutely not. Thanks., you know, we go camping a lot, and I that was a big one as well. So you get there, you set up camp, and then you sit around and around the campfire and have a drink. Everything. I thought that would be really strange, but we've done it several times this year., my wife's been. She still drinks my brother's. Come along with us every time. He still drinks and I don't. Next morning I'm fresh as a daisy. I can we can drive into town or whatever. I've got to worry about whether I'm over the limit to drive. I'm going to get taxis anywhere. Big bonus here. I'm going to talk to taxi drivers.
Benjamin Furnival (00:25:12) - Taxi drivers.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:13) - It's not the money, it's the taxi drivers are champion. Champion. And I don't know, I mean, I'm, I sometimes think we should start talking about the joy of missing out, but then I sort of think, well, no, we're not missing anything, but we should just talk about the joy of being sober.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:28) - So, yeah, you're obviously enjoying it, right?
Benjamin Furnival (00:25:31) - Yeah. Big time. Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:32) - Are you sure? At this point, I normally ask people how,, how they can get in touch, because a lot of the people that I interview, they sell things. So you you should you do work in sales, don't you? So what do you sell?
Benjamin Furnival (00:25:45) - Specialize in pumping systems, pumping viscous materials.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:49) - Is anybody listening to the podcast who's in need of a viscous material pumping solution? You're the man, right?
Benjamin Furnival (00:25:54) - I'm the man. I'm the man.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:56) - Would you be alright if I put your LinkedIn profile on the show notes and then maybe people can, because you do post quite a bit, don't you?
Benjamin Furnival (00:26:03) - Yeah, I put on there I comments on other people's posts quite a lot as well. So yeah, if people want to get in touch.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:26:09) - So that's the, that's the best way to connect with you. I want to ask you a few more questions or anything like that.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:26:15) - But look, that has genuinely been a fascinating discussion. And I think you've you've offered us a load of really, really great insights and a few things, a few things to try. But most of all, you know, I just love talking to people who they're enjoying it, you know, and you seem to you've got so much out of sobriety. And I think that that that's an amazing thing to share. So thank you.
Benjamin Furnival (00:26:36) - Yeah, I think with what people sort of worry about giving up is that they're going to think about it all the time. And I think you would be miserable if you just sat there and thought, oh, I haven't got a drink tonight. You can't do it like that. You've just got to. It's just the next chapter. You can't sit there and think about something that you're not doing anymore. Go and do something else. And look, if you're me, I've got lots of hobbies, you know, and interests. So,, we've got a lot allotments as well.
Benjamin Furnival (00:26:59) - So we go up there on the weekends. It's great for the kids,, to get out and get away from technology. So get out. But don't just sit there thinking about something you're not doing anymore. Go and do something else.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:27:10) - Yeah. You know, I, I think that's that's a very interesting point as well. And again, we don't want to be critical of anybody else's approach, but I think it is too easy to just end up in a community of people like either actively have a problem or previously had a problem, and then just start to define yourself by that problem. But what you're saying is, you know, like there's a little bit of pain and suffering to get over in the moment, but actually you just go out, get on, do stuff, fill your life with other things because exactly that.
Benjamin Furnival (00:27:41) - Yeah.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:27:41) - Exactly that. Get yourself an allotment, get yourself some running shoes. You'll be fine. Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Look, thank you so much for,, for your time today, Benjamin.
Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:27:49) - I absolutely appreciate it. Like I say, no problem. You know, it's it's so beautiful to hear your story because it's obviously, it's obviously done so much for you.