Embracing Compassion and Overcoming Burnout with Dr. Hayley Quinn

In this episode of The Sustainable Success Series, host Nichi Morrin welcomes Dr. Hayley Quinn, a clinical psychologist turned anti-burnout business coach and founder of Welcome to Self. Dr. Hayley shares her powerful journey from experiencing severe burnout and chronic illness to transforming her relationship with herself and creating a thriving business that prioritises self-care, compassion, and sustainable practices. She discusses the profound impact of self-compassion, the challenges of living with invisible illnesses, and practical steps to maintain wellbeing while pursuing professional and personal goals.

Key Takeaways:

1. The Power of Self-Compassion: Dr. Hayley emphasizes the transformative power of self-compassion in overcoming burnout and chronic illness. She shares her experience with Compassion Focused Therapy (CFT) and how connecting with her compassionate self changed her life.
2. Navigating Burnout and Chronic Illness: Dr. Hayley discusses the challenges of balancing work, parenting, and health, and how burnout and chronic illness impacted all areas of her life. She highlights the importance of asking for help and being vulnerable with loved ones.
3. Intentional Self-Care Practices: Dr. Hayley shares practical tips for managing chronic illness, including adopting a plant-based diet, practicing mindful movement, and planning self-care around life events. She stresses the importance of meeting yourself where you are and being flexible with self-care routines.
4. Redefining Greatness: Dr. Hayley redefines greatness as having a compassionate relationship with oneself, which in turn opens doors to living a fulfilling life. She encourages listeners to focus on their own definitions of success rather than societal expectations.
5. Practical Steps for Daily Well-Being: Dr. Hayley offers simple, accessible practices for daily well-being, such as soothing rhythm breathing and regular self check-ins. She also discusses the importance of receiving compassion from others and not being afraid to ask for help.
6. Maintaining Growth and Compassion: Dr. Hayley highlights the ongoing practice of compassion and self-care in maintaining sustainable success and personal growth. She encourages listeners to consider what their future selves would want them to do today.

Where to Find Dr. Hayley Quinn:

• Instagram: @drhayleydquinn
• Podcast: Welcome to Self with Dr. Hayley Quinn
• Website: Welcome to Self
• Facebook and LinkedIn: Search for Dr. Hayley D. Quinn

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Intro and Outro music: Inspirational Acoustic - Organic Harmony by Sonican.

Disclaimer: This content is general in nature and intended for educational purposes only. It is not deemed as psychological treatment and does not replace the advice from your health professional or need for psychological treatment.

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the sustainable success series. The podcast where my mission is to transform the worlds of those living with invisible conditions. Supporting them to become their biggest advocates, begin to heal and make sustainable changes to get back. Being too busy, living. We explore sustainable success in health relationships in business, we raise awareness and we share humble and relatable stories from people just like you. Driven visionary people who dream of more for their life without sacrificing their health or happiness. Or being stuck behind those invisible chains. Plus the insights knowledge, and know-how from those in the field. I'm your host, Nikki Morin. I've been through the trenches myself through trauma, adversity and invisible conditions. I've combined. My lived experience, my learnings and my diverse knowledge as a clinical psychologist. Sustainable success, coach, author, rural business woman, and entrepreneur to transform my life. My vision is to inspire a global movement for a world where invisible conditions are understood, accepted and met with sustainable solutions, impairing people to live with energy, purpose, and fulfillment. And I do this through the million seen movement. Join me and be inspired. Be curious in become excited. This is the sustainable success.

Nichi: 1:24

Welcome everybody. I'm your host, Nikki Moran. Today we have Dr. Haley Quinn joining us. So I'm very excited to introduce Dr. Haley Quinn. Haley is a clinical psychologist turned anti burnout business coach and the founder of Welcome to Self and hosts the Welcome to Self with Dr. Haley Quinn podcast. Haley works with service based business owners, transforming their relationship with themselves and their business. Having experienced burnout and chronic illness while studying, working, and solo parenting, Hayley learned to live a fulfilling life without compromising well being. She's passionate about helping others achieve their business goals in a way that prioritizes sustainable practices, self care, and self compassion, so they achieve the outcomes they want without burning out. She knows if you thrive, your business can too. So welcome Dr. Hayley Quinn. So we'll just start. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to the path you're on today?

Hayley: 2:31

yeah, well, a bit of a bit of a windy road for me. I dropped out of school or left school. I used to call myself a school dropout, but it's not very compassionate. Um, I left school very early and then came back to study later on in life. And did a bachelor of psychology and honors and then went on to do a clinical PhD all the while parenting on my own my, uh, my son, who I think was about three when I first started my studying. And, um, so I was, I've been a clinical psychologist for many years now and. In more recent years kind of moved my work into the coaching space rather than just doing psychology.

Nichi: 3:14

It sounds like you were very high achieving and achieved a lot of things in that career leading up to being a psychologist, um, doing a PhD also. And, but I understand that things haven't always been easy. Do you think there was a time or a specific challenge? that you've faced in your life.

Hayley: 3:36

Oh yeah. Plenty. But I guess the biggest thing for me in terms of kind of pivoting or evolving my career was the process of kind of studying solo parenting. Whilst I was studying, I was working a lot of jobs. I didn't realize at the time I had underlying health condition. And I ended up having a really significant period of burnout and then being diagnosed with chronic illness. So I had worked really hard to become a psychologist and kind of built up my um, caseload of clients and was working in that space, but had to actually leave where I was working because it got to the point that I really couldn't do much at all. Like at one point there, I could barely even get a wash into the washing machine without being really, really exhausted. So that really changed things for me is sort of finding out that I was extremely burnt out, but also had these underlying health conditions that I didn't realize I had.

Nichi: 4:36

So you've, after all that hard work and study and building up your practice, you found yourself with chronic illnesses and burnt out. And it sounds like it was quite hard to even do some of the simple tasks at home. In what other ways do you think that this impacted you personally and professionally?

Hayley: 4:58

Oh gosh, in so many ways, and I think this is the case for many, many people, is it's not just your, your health. I think one, it really can impact your mental health, but it also impacts your relationships and the sort of activities that you're doing. And, you know, friends were inviting me to go to things that I normally would have said yes to. And over time, I would just have to keep saying no because I didn't have any energy. My relationship, um, by this time I had remarried, um, thankfully to a very, very supportive husband. And. That changed the relationship I had with him as well, not in a particularly bad way, but in the way that I had to really kind of lean on him and depend on him for a lot of things because I couldn't do, I couldn't be working and doing the things I needed to do at home. So he was really taking on all of the kind of household tasks as well, which for me, I had always been a very independent woman. Um, I. Found it hard to ask for help. So that was a huge learning for me going through that process. Cause I had no choice but to ask for help. And there were many times where I really felt like a burden and it, and it really did start to get me down. You know, when I look back and reflect, there was times when I felt really, really low because of the impact that it was having across all domains. I didn't know if I was going to be able to keep working as a psychologist. Um, I wasn't seeing my friends as much. I wasn't, I wasn't leaving the house very much at the worst of my illness. I was depending so much on my husband. So yeah, I really wasn't feeling great and I was becoming very, very self critical. Absolutely.

Nichi: 6:43

Wow, so what you're saying is becoming burnt out and exhausted and the chronic illness is developing, it seemed to impact every aspect of your life, whether it's in work, out of work, your relationships, and that is something that was new to you and something that would have been quite defeating in a way. And it's, it's something that you often hear with a lot of, um, health professionals or, you know, women that are out there being really busy and putting everyone else's needs first. And then often the health comes last. That's something where I've been as well.

Hayley: 7:22

And I think throughout my life, I've had challenges of varying degrees, you know, throughout my life and I'd always just got through stuff pretty much on my own. And it was at this point that I realized that actually I couldn't do this on my own. And, you know, when I look back and reflect now, it was, you know, It was actually one of the biggest gifts I could have been given because I had so much personal growth and the relationship, not only with other people, but my relationship with myself really changed through that, which I'm very, very grateful for.

Nichi: 7:55

So would you say Hayley that that may have been a turning point, like even despite going through all these lows and these struggles, was that sort of a turning point for you do you think?

Hayley: 8:06

I have a very specific point that I remember for me. Um, I was still working very minimally when I could, and I was going to trainings in my role as a psychologist. And one of the frameworks that I learned in, in my career as a psychologist is compassion focused therapy. And I happened to be at a training down in Byron Bay that, uh, Dr. Dennis Tursh was running. And, He asked if somebody wanted to volunteer to do a role play or a real play. So in a role play, you know, we, we may act as if we're somebody else, but in the real play, it's like, okay, bring a situation of your own to the table and we'll work with that. And I put my hands up and I wanted to use this aspect of my health and In CFT we use chair work where we'll kind of put multiple versions of selves in different chairs. So I'd volunteered for that and I, it was literally in one chair was kind of my anxious self in another chair was myself critic and there was kind of this conversation going on between these two selves of, you know, My critic tell me how useless I was and what a burden and that, you know, nobody wanted to hang out with me anymore anyway, cause we're always sick and turned down invitations and all that kind of stuff that comes up for us. I think when we've got chronic illness. And then I was in the chair of the compassionate self and it was a really, really profound moment for me because I connected with this compassionate part of myself and it was, I can, even when I think about it now, it always brings up a lot of emotion because I really do think that that was the day that my life really, really changed. And it was like this inner voice that just said to me, you are enough. No matter what you are doing or what you are not doing or whether you are well or whether you are not well, you are enough and you are valuable and you are lovable. And then I just had this thing of like, Oh my gosh, like welcome to self. It was like, I had met myself properly. For the first time, and it was that profound for me that I actually went on and named my business. Welcome to self. Um, I, I went on a journey of really changing the relationship that I had with myself through the lens of compassion, following that. And that for me was a huge shift in how I viewed my life with chronic illness, how I viewed myself with chronic illness and what I chose, chose to do from there, really.

Nichi: 10:52

That sounds absolutely amazing and it gave me goosebumps just at the thought of it. When you're explaining you had that huge big shift within yourself and you could just have that compassion for yourself, um, and feel that you are lovable and you know you are valuable and all those things and like that's just amazing and your perspectives changed. on how you were viewing yourself.

Hayley: 11:17

Absolutely. Nobody, nobody chooses chronic illness. Nobody chooses these invisible illnesses. Like we, we don't set out and think, Oh, when I grow up, I hope I can't do much. Um, you know, I hope I struggle with lots of things. I mean, nobody thinks that nobody chooses this. This is something that happens in our lives. And I think it's so important that we give ourselves the space and grace and compassion to be able to manage it. Because I think, you know, for me, the self criticism was impacting my nervous system in a way that was, compounding what I was dealing with and making my pain worse and making my fatigue worse and you know, just making everything worse really.

Nichi: 12:04

Absolutely, and I think you have just fully hit the nail on the head. It's like being hit by a bus when one of these chronic illnesses decides to take residence in your body. It affects every part of your life and sometimes self compassion goes and we can label ourselves and talk to ourselves in such a criticising way, and the impact that that has on the nervous system. is absolutely huge. So I think everything you have just said is absolutely so true for people that do have these invisible conditions. So after you had that absolutely huge shift what steps did you take to try and overcome the challenges that you faced?

Hayley: 12:50

Look, I think some of that was the sort of mindset work of looking at, you know, what is it that I can do rather than always thinking about what can't I do. Um, Thinking about the things that my body does for me rather than, you know, why can't I do this? And why am I, you know, why is my body letting me down here, there and everywhere? So I, I kind of really would. I guess I have a gratitude practice for, for my body, despite her having these challenges, there's so much that she does for me. So that there was a gratitude practice. One of the things I did, and it's not necessarily going to be something I'm not certainly not here to give advice around these kinds of things, but one of the things I did was I changed to a plant based diet and that had been a very intuitive process for me. I'd started to cut out things that I guess I was starting to really tune in more and listening to myself and I had already started cutting lots of things out of my diet that I knew would just, after I'd eaten them, I would feel either very, very fatigued or I'd notice a flare up in my pain. I, I went on, um, I went to see, I think she was a nutritionist and, I went changed to a plant based diet for the, for the first little while it was quite strict. Um, but the improvement in my pain and stuff was phenomenal. Again, I kind of prefaced all this with, um, that's, I did this with other health professionals. I didn't do this stuff on my own. So that for me has been And I know that if I, um, like recently we've been moving house and we've been busy, so we haven't been eating perhaps as well as we would like to normally eat. And I do notice an increase in inflammation and pain in my body when that happens. So I'm more tuned into it now. And sometimes I just go, well, you know what, this is how it is for the next couple of weeks. Cause there's a lot going on. Um, But generally I do try and be mindful around the sort of foods that I know are impactful for me. I try and do exercise that matches where I'm at. Um, at first I would be like, Oh, I need to be going walking for this long all the time and blah, blah, blah. And the things. Now I realize, It's meeting myself where I'm at every day, or even in the afternoon, might feel different to the morning, like just before coming on here with you, you know, we have just been in the moving process. I just went and had a little rest, a bit of a nap on the couch, because that's what my body was telling me I needed. So, you know, Those are kind of the main things apart from then the practice of compassion that that is an everyday ongoing practice for me. Um, really tuning in, checking in with myself, offering myself compassion, reminding myself that I didn't choose this and it's okay to be however I am. And I think when we can tune in and listen to ourselves, we can kind of ask that question of what is it that I need right now? And that could be different day to day, week to week, hour to hour. Um, but then you can offer that to yourself. You know, if we're sensitive to our own suffering, we can actually have that motivation to alleviate or prevent that suffering.

Nichi: 16:15

I love all of those words, all, everything you've just said. And leaning in to listen to yourself, it sounds like that is something you become really familiar with and doing regular is listening to, I like how you called her she, what she was needing and what she was telling you and you were listening and being compassionate and giving her what she needed.

Hayley: 16:38

Yeah. That's, that's been a game changer for me. I think if anybody was, would ask me what is the biggest thing you've done differently that's changed your life the most, it would be allowing myself to slow down. Tune in, ask myself how I am and what I need, and then respond with space and grace and compassion.

Nichi: 17:05

Oh, that's amazing. I think I need to start your journey with your welcome to self. It sounds so good. Um, and I really like too how you mentioned, you would try and focus on the functionality. So instead of being angry at your body or because of what was going on, it's like, well, you're being grateful for what she could do.

Hayley: 17:32

Yeah, yeah. I wrote, um, I'd gone, because I literally went from not being able to barely get off the couch some days or get out of bed. Or if I did go for a walk, I might go for a walk or two, you know, a small walk for a couple of days, and then I could spend three days in bed. And my husband would have to do everything. And when things got better for me, and it certainly wasn't an overnight thing, although some of it did happen within a matter of weeks, like there was some changes that were really profound for me. Um, I then ended up, you know, I went over and presented at a compassion retreat in New York. I went over to a conference in London and I would have these moments of like. Wow. I didn't even know if I was going to be able to keep on working. And now I have this career that takes me around the world, doing different things and evolving my business into something I want it to be. And, you know, tomorrow, next week, I'm off to a business retreat in Bali. I mean, you know, I, I've never, I'd lost a lot of hope. I'd lost a lot of hope. And I think what happens is we can end up in a really, really dark place and it's hard then to be grateful. And it's hard then to see what's happening. But for me, it was a practice, an intentional practice of how am I going to see this differently? How am I going to do what I can and then be grateful for that? And I had been to, um, I think I was, I've been to a trip to Canberra and on the way home, I wrote a, um, meditation around my body and being grateful. And it was that sort of stuff of, I need to change how I see this and what it means for me. And rather than chronic illness being this thing that is ruining my life, because I certainly felt like that at some point, it was like, well, this is just ruining my life. I mean, this is rubbish. What am I going to do? This is awful. It became what is the best life I can live with chronic illness. And that really made a difference. Like I don't, I don't see myself so much now as somebody with a chronic illness. That's something that I have to do some management of, you know, if I didn't take care of myself, well, I imagine that I probably would end up in a place where I'm not so healthy again, but it's not this, it doesn't have the same kind of what, what like level of identity for me. If that makes

Nichi: 20:17

Yeah. Oh that does make sense. So what's the best life I can live despite the chronic illness? That's a really good question. A really great question for people to ask themselves because it is so easy just to be pulled down and feel like there's no hope and, and just be defined or your whole functioning limited.

Hayley: 20:40

yeah, absolutely. And I would like to say as well, um, because I don't want that to sound invalidating or minimise the suffering that people are under. it's awful! You know, there's aspects of this that are awful. And if you are feeling in a really dark place and if you are kind of, you know, we have a built in negativity bias as well. So our brains are designed to find all the crappy things, aren't they? Um, and if you are in this place where all you can see is the darkness, That makes sense. You know, it makes sense that, you know, you feel down, that it can feel hopeless. So I don't in any way want to invalidate somebody's suffering or minimize how difficult it is to live with chronic illness. I know for me, part of my motivation, now I am well. And I can do all these things and I've evolved my business to a business that I can engage in and have fun and really love. And I'm very grateful for the life I've got. I'm also very motivated to take care of myself because I don't ever want to go back there. So, you know, I get that it's, it can be a really, really hard time.

Nichi: 21:52

Absolutely, I think it can definitely be some of the most isolating and the, the darkest times when your health is impacted. And I think that really reinforces why it's so important to bring more support and awareness, um, for people that are going through this.

Hayley: 22:08

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, having good people on your, your health team and your social network and all that sort of stuff is really, really helpful. And, and again, I know not everybody has great access to all of that, but if you can, even if it's a small network of people, I think it really, really is so very important.

Nichi: 22:30

Yes, definitely. So as you started to have these changes in perspectives and you started making this shift in your life, How did your approach to life and your goals change as you started to break free from this invisibility? Yeah,

Hayley: 22:47

Oh, wow. Um, how did it change? Well, massively, I think.

Nichi: 22:52

it sounds like it.

Hayley: 22:54

Yeah, massively. I, I think one of the things that comes to mind is, I used to think, how am I going to be able to do anything feeling the way I feel? I went that change for me to thinking about what is it I want to do? What goals do I want to have? What do I want to achieve? Whether that's in business or in personal life. And for me to be able to do that in the best way possible, how can I best take care of myself?

Nichi: 23:31

Yep.

Hayley: 23:32

So my goals and my aspirations and my forward thinking and future thinking was the first bit. And then it was like, and okay, based on that, how will I best take care of myself rather than, Oh, I'm so unwell. What am I going to do? Is it even possible to do ABC? And even now I mentioned before I'm off next week overseas and already I'm like, okay, well I'm doing that. Absolutely. It's going to be, I'm going to have lots of fun. It's going to be fantastic. What do I need to have in place? And one of the things for me is this weekend is going to be a slow one because I'm going to do plane travel and, you know, foreign country, navigating everything and, and working whilst I'm over there. So this weekend will be a very slow one for me. I'm also going to make sure, um, and have been that I'm eating well.

Nichi: 24:34

Yeah.

Hayley: 24:35

as well because I don't know what food I'm gonna be able to have access to when I'm over there and is it going to be the best sort of food for me? And then I'll also have a plan that often when I travel I, I come home and I make a very big pot of vegetable soup.'cause my body is like, give me all the stuff So it's those, I kind of think, how am I gonna front load my self-care. So what are the things I'm going to do before the event or the trip or the whatever it might be? And then what am I going to do whilst I'm there? And then what will I do when I get back? So again, I've got some time off when I get back before I have to start working again. So, so I think about what is it I want to do? What do I want to achieve in my life? What am I excited about? And then given that I want to do those things, what's going to be the best way? for me to take care of my body and my mind.

Nichi: 25:33

and that sounds fantastic. It sounds like there's a lot of awareness around intentional planning for self care.

Hayley: 25:41

Yeah, absolutely. Which can be tiring too. So, you know, that can be a little bit exhausting. So what I do for that is I have things, um, in my notes section on my phone that are almost like pre former travel, um, Things that I just have to go, okay, copy that into the new place I'm going. So I'm not thinking about everything from scratch.

Nichi: 26:07

Yeah. That's a really great idea for a strategy.

Hayley: 26:12

I always think, how can you lessen the cognitive load

Nichi: 26:16

Yeah, I

Hayley: 26:16

need to do? And if it's something you're going to do more than once. Put some, some things in your notes in your phone and then you can just refer back to that.

Nichi: 26:26

think definitely when it comes to the self care stuff, and particularly eating, it can be really hard if you don't have any pre planning or structure around that, and you're just choosing off the bat, then you're more likely to choose those things that aren't going to be helpful for your energy or your fatigue or your inflammation. It

Hayley: 26:45

One of the things that, um, I try and do and don't always manage, like I say, we were moving. Everything goes out the window when you're moving. Um,

Nichi: 26:54

does.

Hayley: 26:55

I do meal planning for the week so that I know what we're getting. I know what we're having. I'll bulk cook as well. So that I don't, that neither of us are having to cook meals every night, things like that, which I find really helpful. And again, with space and grace, I mean, I'm not always going to do it. Sometimes we don't eat the best food or we, we just go, we made a plan to budget for takeaway whilst we were moving because that actually was the kindest thing to do for ourselves and would minimize food waste. Because if we bought groceries, we probably weren't going to have time and they'd end up in the bin anyway. So

Nichi: 27:34

Yeah, exactly.

Hayley: 27:35

It's being flexible that this doesn't have to always look a particular way.

Nichi: 27:41

Yeah, it's about being, having good enough plans, but that you can have the flexibility.

Hayley: 27:46

Yeah.

Nichi: 27:48

So Hayley, how do you think you define greatness for yourself? And has that changed over time?

Hayley: 27:55

Oh gosh, absolutely. Throughout my life, I, if somebody had said that to me, even probably 10, 15 years ago, I'd have been like, well, I don't know. Greatness. I know that's what other people do. How would I define it now? Greatness. Well, for me, greatness is the ability to have the best possible relationship I can with my heart, with myself, because through having that, I really can step out into the best possible life that I'm ever going to have. And I'm, I've proved to myself from, you know, being a young person who. was very self neglectful, had no real relationship with myself was except a very harsh one and really didn't care much about what my work was or what I was doing as long as earning some money, who cares kind of thing. Um, I didn't have aspirations of being any, you know, having a particular career to going through that. And then now. thinking about what I want to put out into the world and that the impact I want to have in the world and things like that is so very different. So I think, I think it's changed a huge amount for me. I don't know if I, I think I forgot your question as I was talking then.

Nichi: 29:21

you define greatness for yourself, you said about having like that compassion for yourself and the way that you said it, you spoke with so much passion and so much conviction.

Hayley: 29:35

Honestly, the, the change you can have in your life by introducing compassion, not only through my own experience. I mean, obviously my experience shows me that really strongly, but I've worked with lots of people and done this kind of work. And I think when we change the relationship with ourselves, we change everything.

Nichi: 30:00

Yep.

Hayley: 30:01

the relationship with other people. We change our perspective on what the world is like. We change the way we can make choices. I work with business owners. We can build businesses that suit who we are as human beings, um, how we want things to be for our families. I'm, I'm extremely passionate about the work that I do. I feel very, very privileged to do the work that I do. And I know how. Difficult life can feel and I know how different life can feel. And if I can help other people see that as well, then wow, like how lucky am I?

Nichi: 30:41

It sounds like this. Being, having that compassion for yourself can just open so many doors in your life, can take you so many places that may not have been possible if you didn't have that in place.

Hayley: 30:55

I think so because I think we can be so harsh and for lots of reasons. It can be your early life stuff. It can be the way society is with us. It can be for so many reasons, but I think we can be so harsh with ourselves. We can be so disconnected from ourselves. We can have so much fear of judgment from other people and so much self doubt. And in my experience, when we change this relationship with ourselves and when we are more compassionate, it's not to say we don't have fear and doubt and all those things, but it almost gives us an armor or something. It's like you've got this compassionate part of you that is alongside you, coaching you and cheering you on and sharing wisdom and saying, Oh, maybe don't go down that way. Come over this way. It might be a little bit more helpful. Um, I do think it makes a massive change.

Nichi: 31:49

Yes, your own armour and your own cheer squad right there with you all the time.

Hayley: 31:53

Yeah, and one of the things for me in terms of because I still have periods where I have quite significant pain when I Have this more open more mindful more curious Approach to what's happening and I connect with my compassionate self So I know that I'm actually going to take care of myself through it I actually find that I don't suffer the pain as much Like when I surrender to it and get more curious, like that's been my experience that that can really, really help.

Nichi: 32:34

Having that curiosity around the pain and then listening to her again, listening to the body, to the self.

Hayley: 32:40

Yeah. Because I think when we get fearful, I mean, when we do get fearful, we go into threat, right? And when we're in a threat system, we're tighter, we're more bound up. Our nervous system is more activated. So it kind of stands to reason that we're going to feel more pain. Yeah. The body's going to be more tense. I mean, if you, if you sit and hold your muscle really tightly for a while. It's going to hurt, right?

Nichi: 33:06

Yeah,

Hayley: 33:07

if we can actually regulate the nervous system, bring in some more soothing, be more mindful, you never know. Maybe, maybe people listening could experiment with that and see what happens for them.

Nichi: 33:24

I think that would be a really good experiment for the people that are listening, that we can change the experience within our body when we're changing our body. the relationship with ourself and with the nervous system. Now, how do you think you maintain this sense of greatness and continue to grow in your life and your career?

Hayley: 33:51

That for me is an ongoing daily practice. I didn't just learn about being compassionate and then Go. Okay. Well, I know that now. So we're done. Um, and when we think about compassion as well, we need to remember there's three flows of compassion. So I've talked a lot about self compassion, but there's also the compassion that we show outwards. And I think many people, and in my experience, many people who end up with these invisible illnesses are tend to be very compassionate and giving people. So compassion to others doesn't tend to be, uh, an issue. And we've talked a lot about self compassion and that can be really hard for people. And again, it's a practice and over time it will get easier, but there's also receiving compassion from others. And that as well, I found to be a really important piece. I had had an experience again, I'd gone over to New York. Um, And I was presenting a compassion retreat in New York and I was like, I've got this compassion thing down pat. I know what I'm doing. And we went to the hosts house for dinner the night before and I tripped on the step and I really badly hurt my ankle and I was laying on the floor in a lot of pain. And of course it's compassion retreat. So all the presenters were these people who are experts in compassion and they came running towards me trying to help. And I really felt quite shocked because, and I won't swear on here, but I swore in my mind, I had this thing, I wish they'd all just, and leave me alone, but I had this real fear response that people were actually being compassionate to me. And it was a real shock. And then I ended up on crutches. So throughout the retreat, I actually presented with my foot up on a chair, which was quite funny because I was talking about self care and I was kind of modeling how to take care of yourself. But throughout that people had to get me my lunch. They had to help me downstairs. They had to do all these things for me. That was a really growth period for me in receiving compassion from others. And it made me realize how important it is. Particularly for those of us who start with, I'm good. I can do everything myself. I'm fine. I don't need anyone's help. We do. We do need other people's help, particularly when we're living with things like chronic illness, invisible illnesses. So it's not just about compassion to self, but it's also thinking about, What is my relationship with receiving compassion from other people? And if that brings up a discomfort, can you actually be with that discomfort so that you can receive this gift of compassion that will ultimately really support you?

Nichi: 36:40

And I think that's a huge one. I think a lot of people struggle with being open to receiving and that can just create these blocks in our life. And then we don't see these things happening that we're wanting to happen and we wonder why, but yeah. Opening up to be able to receive that compassion, that love, um, success, health and well being, all the things you're wanting to receive in your life, that's that inner work.

Hayley: 37:06

Absolutely. So for me, it was, it was, and is an ongoing practice

Nichi: 37:13

Yep.

Hayley: 37:14

of checking in. But also I guess from the, when you're talking about the kind of greatness and the success piece that for me is also about. Kind of asking myself, okay, so what next? Like, what, what do I want to do? And that isn't necessarily like, you know, there's a lot of talk out there of like build a six and seven figure business and, you know, become a multimillionaire and all this, I think it's really important. We think about what our own meaning of success is. And some of that for me is having a business that is flexible enough that I get to drop things and go and attend to friends that need me or spend time with my son, or I'm very fortunate enough to have just moved up to the beach. to be able to start my day later so I can go for a walk on the beach and enjoy this beautiful country that we live in. So for me, it is that sort of like, okay, so what do I want next? What is that next step? What do I want for future Haley? Um, and a big one at the moment, because I am trying to kind of get fitter and, and what have you, is I keep thinking about my 80 year old self, And think, okay, well maybe I don't want to get off the couch right now cause I want to watch Netflix, but what does my 80 year old self want me to do? Because I, I really want to do the best by her because I want her to be rocking it at 80 and having a great life and being mobile and having fun. So that that's something that's been coming up for me a lot in more recent times.

Nichi: 38:45

Oh, I really like that. And I think that's something else the audience can do, too, is try and think what would their 80 year old self want for them right now? You know, what? What can they do for their 80 year old self? Oh, I like it. So, what advice would you give others who might have similar challenges or experience invisibility, whether it's due to their condition or their circumstances?

Hayley: 39:11

I think the first one, and you'll know this from me, is go gently with yourself. You know, I think giving ourselves space and grace and compassion is really, really important. This isn't a race. You don't need to race to be able to do all the things. And I think as well is not to, or to try not to, compare yourself to other people. And I think it'd be really easy to be like, yeah, but everyone else can do that. Or this person can do that. Well, maybe they're not living with an invisible illness. Maybe they don't have the challenges that you have. So if we can actually think about what is it I want for myself today, not, I should be doing what everyone else is doing, or somehow I need to be meeting some expectation of others. I think that's an important one. And also if you can be willing to be vulnerable with, even if it's just one person, but one or two people in your life that you can be really authentic and honest with about how you're feeling and not, not masking how you're feeling all the time. Because I know for many of us who live with invisible illnesses, it can feel easier. And at times it is easier to just say to people, yeah, no, I'm good. Thanks. And we don't want to be always. Talking about, Oh, actually a pain in my left shoulder. It's not been so great. We don't always want to be doing that, but I think if we're masking it all the time, again, that becomes exhausting. I think it keeps us quite tense. So go gently with yourselves. Try not to compare yourself with others. Have at least one or two people in your life that you can be authentic and vulnerable with. And, um, if you, if you haven't a practice of self compassion, then this would be my invitation for you to try that at least one small step, even if it was, you know, what would I say to my best friend if they were suffering the way I am because I'm sure it will be different to the way people are perhaps talking to themselves.

Nichi: 41:29

absolutely, and that's so important for everybody. Now, is there any um, steps people could start taking that might be easy, that they could just easily start implementing in their life, like today?

Hayley: 41:50

I think the, the couple of things for me, I would suggest that a simple breathing technique. Now in, in compassion focused therapy, we talk about soothing rhythm breathing, and that is literally an equal in and out breath. Ideally four or five Breathing in for four or five on the in breath and four or five on the out breath. And you could do that for ten breaths or you could do that for ten minutes. You know, you could do it for two breaths, like start small. Two breaths, two nice, slow, deep breaths is better than nothing. Not doing that at all. And just shallow breathing. So starting to find a breathing technique comfortable. There's so many, so many different ways you can regulate your nervous system with breath. So find the one that suits you. I love soothing rhythm breathing. Um, the other thing is they could set their alarm for Partway through the day or more times if that's suited. And when the alarm goes off, just slow down for a moment, perhaps put your hand on your heart and just check in with yourself. Hey Hayley, how are you going right now? Is there anything you need? And just listen and see what shows up. And if it's, I'm actually a little bit thirsty, I could do with a glass of water. Well then go get yourself a glass of water. If it's, I'm actually quite tired, I think I need to sit down. then do that. If it's actually, I feel like I need to move my body, but I don't know how, then just gently move your body. So that for me would be that like, they don't cost anything. They're completely free. Your, your lungs go everywhere you do. So you can breathe wherever you are and it's really recommended.

Nichi: 43:39

Yep.

Hayley: 43:39

And the checking in with yourself again, you can do it anywhere. You'd have to speak it out loud. It's free. So for me, there, there are two things that anybody can access.

Nichi: 43:52

It's just a simple, beautiful way to start checking in with self. And just leaning in and listening. Yeah,

Hayley: 43:59

I will just say, cause I just said anyone can access. I will just say with the breath work, obviously people who have COPD or any other breathing difficulties, they may find that difficult. So adjust this according to what works. Or find something alternative to breathing. It could be that you just sit and just stroke your arm and we know skin on skin contact is really good. You might just kind of, you know, gently stroke down your arms instead if breathing is something that feels tricky. And also for people who've got a trauma history, doing that kind of internal tuning in can be hard. So again, um, yeah, Keeping it external. And even with the internal check in, if that feels too much, it might be, okay, my alarm goes off. If I was talking to my best friend right now and they were struggling, what might it be they need? And then listen because it's actually going to be your wisdom that shows up anyway. But it's just avoids you having to turn in internally if that's actually something that's triggering for you. Yeah.

Nichi: 45:04

activated. There's other ways around it. So Hayley, where can our listeners connect with you or learn more about your work and your story?

Hayley: 45:15

Okay. So I am on all the socials. I tend to be on Instagram the most. I, also have a podcast, as you mentioned at the beginning. Welcome to Self with Dr. Hayley D. Quinn. And that's aimed mainly at business owners, but we, the big focus of the podcast is self care, self compassion and sustainable ways of working. So I think I've had people who are not business owners tell me that actually the episodes are helpful anyway. So mainly Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and a podcast really, or my website.

Nichi: 45:49

That sounds fantastic. Thank you so much Hayley for joining us today, sharing your inspiring story and all those wonderful tips and information. You've shared so much wonderful stuff with us today and it's been such a pleasure having you.

Hayley: 46:06

Oh, thank you so much for inviting me on. It's an absolute pleasure and I'm excited for for you and the future of your podcast. I think it's great.

Nichi: 46:14

Thank you and we'll talk again soon.

46:17

Thank you for listening to the sustainable success series. Our content is general in nature and does not replace the advice from your health professional. Please subscribe to our show and follow us on social media. To stay up to date and connected.