3 - Are we winding up or winding down? | The Sleepy Sisters Podcast

We're talking about what makes for a successful wind down into rest, sleep, or connection. It's nuanced and unique to each person, and a topic worth exploring if you find it hard to chill out.

www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com

Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com

Transcript

Unknown: 0:02

Let's get right to it, aren't you? Well, I debated whether or not I feel like I was thinking this morning this podcast is not only unedited, it's also we are unprepared. Correct? I think these are important distinctions that any listener of this new show should know. But I do have a question. First of all, I'm Elizabeth brink, Sarah neuron. And we're not always going to talk about being sleepy, but maybe for a while. But today, what I want to talk about is settling down, winding down. But before that, I want to know what's making you sleepy. This week, or today? Me? Yeah, anything? Who else would you be talking to? I don't know. You could just be putting a rhetorical question out there for the audience. But no, I'm talking to you. I feel like it's been a very busy week, and my sleep has not been great this week. I feel like I've had more of those episodes where I'm waking in the middle of the night, and my mind just starts churning. It latches on to something, it's like, oh, we're gonna go here for the next three hours. And so I'm laying there and trying to like, let my body still rest and not get up and like, look at stuff. But it is not. It's like, I've had that happen, where it's almost like my brain gets excited. Like, there's an activity to do this, like, oh, yeah, here's the thing to imagine. It's not even always a problem to solve. Sometimes it's like, here's this pretend scenario to play out. Like, it's like watching a show. Like, here's your show to watch. And what's fine is it used for me, it used to be at the beginning of the night, and I had trouble like falling asleep. And now it's like, oh, no, you're you're exhausted, go to sleep. And then it's like going into glaucoma. No. Yeah, there should be enough DNA in my system. What about making you sleepy? I am. I'm very sleepy today. Because last night, I took our first grader to a concert, which sounds insane when I say that, but we had a great time. Surprisingly, and but we didn't get home to like 11. And it's funny that this is the topic today because we got home and 11 Kiddo went right to bed. I also went right to the bed did not fall asleep until midnight. And maybe a little after, and had this moment of like, I was so tired. I was so tired. Got in the bed, mess around on my phone for a little while my regular routine, and then lay there and was like tossing and turning and could feel it's hard to explain but I felt like I could feel in my body like awakeness Yes, it was just like, I know what it feels like in my body to be in that like on the like, off ramp going down, down down. And you were not. It wasn't like it was just like I was still on the highway. It wasn't even like I was speeding up. I just was like, oh, no, here I am. I'm still they're still awake feelings in me. And so I grabbed my phone and sorry, I grabbed my phone and did a little research real quick. Or she did a Oh, yeah. Okay, here's my, there's my freak flag. Research is the danger zone at night. It really is. It's just like a burning question. And I looked it up, read a couple different takes on it. Like a bedtime story, and then I did fall asleep. Okay. Yeah. So it did I guess it helped. It did kind of help. I think it helped my brain to kind of do whatever the reading was happening. It did help my brain to kind of like do a lab basically. I think I don't know I mean, I don't know like there's any science behind that but it did exhaust a little bit of whatever the whatever was left in the executive functioning tank. It kind of burned it out which is so ironic, right? Because honestly, there's so much of the day I spend wondering if I even have an executive function or like, where the fuel when that was when I go to sleep that I feel like that's like us. Such a hurt every day. It's like, I have been trying to gain energy to like, do a thing all day, and I get in my bed and it's like, show to know that I have that exact reaction. What? Like what is happening? Stop it. Okay, not now like, we could have done this, we could have done this right? Like, it's not like I have a lack of time. Most wonder research because you were talking the other day about how research is kind of like your hobby. And I can relate because same. But I wonder if that's relating to you. I wonder if that because it's such a part of your day. And such a like way that you get comfort around like issues and different like problems, if like, that's part of a process for you sometimes and like a wind down where you're like, let me research a thing where some people that might be activating, but for you, it's like, oh, here we go now to sleep. I mean, it's funny to imagine it in those terms, because it is exactly that. And it's but yeah, I mean, I think there are certain things I cannot look at at night, and I definitely avoid headlines I avoid, you know, anything that might be triggering to my, my constant internal fear of something terrible happening to somebody I love. And I just like live with, right? And so I have to avoid that kind of stuff. But looking up, like, where did this purple bump on my arm come from? I don't have a purple bump right now. But like, it's that kind of stuff, you know, which sometimes can be a little dicey. Because it's like, oh, it could be cancer, right. But most of the time, it's, it's like random questions like that, like, what's the adhesive on that type of envelope made of? It's just like, This is so funny, because when I think about the research, the night research, I'm googling. And I obviously have done enough work where I'm I know my edges, and I know that there are things that we don't look at, and there's things, things that you know, I know, activate me if I'm feeling impending doom and I start looking at like things, you know, obviously, like climate, anxiety will start, you know, but one of the slippery slope things around in that neighborhood that can be kept me on the wrong trail. That feels like, Oh, just a point of interest. You're gonna laugh at this, because you're gonna be like, what? But is a is evidence to me that I'm activated in a not great way. Like, maybe I have more stressful day because I go towards this, I may not have checked in with myself, this is like, you have built the suspension like so? Well, it's two things, but they're off the same branch, I guess, celebrity deaths. And people who died in high school, or from high school? Well, yeah, it's dark. So the celebrity deaths is a definite trail to who died. Who's died since high school? That was a little bit harder to research. It's not so but like the celebrity is like. And then if they're young, I have to go. Oh, yeah, I know. And they usually don't tell you in the first articles, you have to you have to wait. I can't read those anymore. Because I feel like as we're getting older, every time the headline, it's like, these people are my age. And I'm like, Oh, dang, I can't, you know, are there like, my siblings ages. And it used to be that like hearing about celebrities dying was like, way down the road? There's old people. Yeah. And now it's like, oh, no, I know people that age. Can't be looking at. But I do like an adjacent one to this, which is to be researching. Like, if I noticed that somebody from high school posts a picture and they're no longer wearing their wedding ring. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I feel like that. Yeah, yeah, I'll go down that trail. And I'll be like, Oh, what happened? And are they still together? Also, to tell the problem is obviously with the celebrity death thing is that one it's not cool that I kind of find comfort. It's like drugs or like, you know, something like, because like, it can't have that's when I haven't been because I don't do drugs. Right. Okay. Yeah, fair. It's all part of my life, you know, trauma. And then but if they have like an illness that maybe I'm not familiar with, which is very rare, but it does happen. I might have to do a quick Google I don't want to deep dive but the problem is with AI, is I'm like thinking the universe is sending me messages on Facebook because I forgot about the search. Janessa it's like, do you have blah, blah, blah? And then I'm like, what's happening? What's happening to it and check my armpits for lumps? Like every slope is a very good metaphor for that. So okay, so to bring us back to the winding down, which is not we're talking about, we're talking about winding yourself up. Here we are, I'm sorry. But I think that's actually, that is actually the heart of what I wanted to get out. So you posted on Instagram, a real about bedtime with one of your kids. And coming to this realization of like, what they needed versus what you were instinctively doing before that, will you give like just a quick synopsis of kind of what you discovered. I love that you think I'm capable of a quick synopsis? Okay, I could get one I mean. So essentially, you know, most of the tools in my toolbox as far as like, you know, winding or helping my kids wind down have a lot to do with, like, what I use what works for me, and just kind of what we have access to so mindfulness, you know, deep breathing, cuddling, reading books, you know, getting it dark, putting white noise on all of those things that are very soothing to me and signal to my body. We're gonna go to bed sometime soon. Okay. So we were doing that, and it really doesn't work for her. In fact, I even got one of those animals, which I love and my other kid loves, that has little meditations on it, and which is actually activating to her. And so she actually gets mad when I put it on, which I did not look as, as evidence then I just was like, Okay, I want them what's happening? Maybe it's because she's little. And so what we just found was like, just they were doing bedtime was getting longer and longer and longer, because we were adding more books more, you know, laying in the dark and trying to help her body settle, but then she was still getting up and it was still not working. So I have been just noticing a lot more in the last like several months, how much of a sensory seeker she is. And so she loves to move her body. She loves to be in things, listen to music, all that stuff. And so I started checking in with her and asking her, you know, what do you think you might want to do? What do you think would help? What do you think you need, and at first to start with, like chase around the house like tickles and like laughing. She loves that play connection. That's really like good for her system. And then we have this little button called 32nd Dance Party that she brought into the room. And so even though it felt counterintuitive, we are now doing one minute raves before bed, which there's like a little strobe light on the button. And there's like six or seven techno songs that come on. She wants to do it twice. We do it. I fully am in it. I'm dancing with her. I'm like throwing the strobe around. And I actually really like it. It makes me actually feel really calm, too. And now our bedtime went from this like, I mean 45 minutes, and then her coming back out to five to seven minutes. What she knows I'm not kidding. She does it. We lay down. She wants to like snuggle for like a couple minutes, max, all her other stuff is on her white noise. It's darker weighted blanket. And typically, Joshua, my husband will go in I mean, you know, it's my husband. Yeah. They'll go in, and he'll lay in there with her too. And they're usually the stretch like I would leave after my long thing and then she would come out and then he'd go in there and it'd be another long thing and then she might still come out. It is probably sometimes if he's not in there within one or two minutes. She's already fallen asleep. Whoa, it's insane. I mean, I don't even know. I'm still kind of wrap my brain around it but I thought okay, this is this is good evidence about Yeah, yeah, just that what was so counterintuitive to me of just even moving her body. We're always like, hey, with the kids just a tarp it is time to rest by doing this mean to settle out with that means non movement. That means you know, the type of connections and soft voices. This kid needs a rave and it's like that connection, the laughing and the dancing. makes her feel safe, makes her body feel ready or whatever it is. So right as you write the day before you posted about this. I had been looking up information about heavy work, which is like an occupational therapy The term for big movements of like pushing and pulling and using kind of heavy weighted stuff, maybe even wall pushes. And I was like kind of learning about how beneficial that can be for people at bedtime in the winding down stage. And then this whole idea around these two sensory channels, I don't know what we found senses, vestibular and proprioceptive. So vestibular is, you know, the where I am in time and space. And it's, you know, when you see kids flipping upside down, moving their bodies around kind of throwing their bodies around, that's kind of the vestibular input, the raving would probably be like that. And then the proprioceptive is pressure is like heavy pressure. So heavy, heavy pressure touch, or maybe like weighted blankets or things like that. And so you posted this. And then I started thinking about the wind down process at our house, and how I'm constantly telling Cory to like, cool it, because his voice is loud, his movements are big, he's roughhousing with the kids. And I'm like, we are dragging to down. And that so many times just like that, like this is winding down and wound up. I mean, I'm telling you right now, because that's how we were raised, like, so I think that's what brought this question for me is like, what's the difference between winding up and winding down? It's, you know, so specific to the individual. And understanding this, it kind of put all these pieces together where I was like, Okay, wow, because with our younger kid who does a lot of what we call boss fights, which is from playing the video game, Kirby. So they enact they reenact or enact these boss fights on our bed. And that kid goes right to bed. It's kind of like the rave. And I have these experiences with our other kiddo that at bedtime, or I get very agitated, if they do not immediately like get in the rest full position. We made the wise or mistake, choice of giving them lofted bed. So now I can't like actually sitting down next to the kid, because I'm standing there. And I don't want to be standing there. And I'm like, please, like, get your feet off the wall, please, you know, don't do that to your neck, put your head on your pillow. It's this whole like thing around, I need your body to like, get into position and be ready, I get really agitated. And since you said that story, and I had been looking up all that stuff I stopped. You know, I stopped kind of poking at that and like requiring or requesting that this kid Stop wiggling basically in bed. And it doesn't happen every night. It's like every now and then. And so it just gave me this insight into like, oh, that, of course, obviously. Hello, Elizabeth is the child communicating with me that there's a need there. And the people who talk about heavy work, they talk about the sensory needs that you know, they're trying to fill that some kind of baseline sensory need. And then once that's been filled, you can do things like the proprioceptive, like heavy touch, or a weighted blanket. And the nervous system's response to that is going to be very different. So the other night, this child that does this every now and then had their feet up on the wall or flipping all around. And I just was like, Okay, I'm going to self manage here and not tell them what to do. And I just started asking, like, is there anything else your body wants to do? What else does your body wanted to do? Oh, yeah, legs way up high on the wall. Wow, how's that feel? How's that feel on your neck on your head. And, obviously, then we're not in a battle, which helps everything always. And they just kind of started organically shifting their body toward their pillow. And then once they lay down, they were still kind of wiggly and silly and flipping the legs back and forth. And I got their weighted blanket out which this kid doesn't like it as much as the other one. And I started just kind of like dropping it on top of their body. You know, like clay, like just kind of dropping it on on top of their body, dropping it on their head. And so we're getting this like proprioceptive pressure. But we're still playing, we're still moving. And it was so interesting to watch like the organism to watch the physiology just kind of like lean into this pattern and receive this input and And it didn't take very long, it only took a couple minutes, really. And then they were ready for bed. So it just has me really curious about my own, like winding down process, not like my sleep hygiene about that. But this idea of like, oh, like I did know, instinctively, last night that my brain and body were not done. I knew that if I looked something up, I would probably run out of like, mental steam and be able to fall asleep. And that's what I did. But I know for some people, that's like, three in the morning. I mean, that can be like really disruptive to life. But I, I find this a fascinating topic, just in terms of like, we live in such a fast paced, overwhelming world, how are we finding ways to like downshift, even if it's not at bedtime? So I'm thinking the bedtime thing is like, yes, that's important, because we need sleep and all of that, because we're sleeping. But But when I think about the wind down process, even, like, just while you're talking, I'm thinking about after, like, a stressful season after, like, during a transition during the day of like having like, you know, depending on what I'm doing, that their kids were coming home from, from school, you know, we have been experimenting a lot more with how to wind down from school, you know, because at that time she, the little one is on overload, she's met all her sensory thresholds, like she passed on. And they actually really benefit from being completely separate. And totally loved demand, watching the show eating crunchy, and, and cold snacks and things like that, and getting a different, it's still a sensory experience, but it's, it looks different. Because of there's other parts to it, but what's interesting about experimenting with that is it started translating more into experimenting, like, when she, we were had to go do something, and allowing her to like dig in the dirt. And like pull apart like tree branches. You know, we're at like a public park or whatever it is, instead of like, you know, just in our backyard. And what she and kind of experimenting there, I think is probably what opened me up to the wind down at night a little bit more, because I'm watching her, like studying her. And, you know, and I shared some of this with you like, this child needs tactile, like, we need oxygen. I mean, just like touching things, all that. So I think that that wind down, you know, we can get a lot of information during the day around what feels good, because we have so many transitions and so many things, you know, so many times or opportunities during our week, going into the weekend, whatever it may be. To notice I guess, like what actually kind of feels good and actually makes me feel relaxed and not some formulas somebody else's input to me, because, yeah, I'm having this huge aha right now. I was thinking this morning about like the sensory joy of like visual, the pleasing, visual, pleasing, input, pleasing, visual input, whatever, I'm tired. And I'm just thinking about, like how that sensory input, that channel for me is hard to access at night. And maybe there's a piece of using the phone that is I'm looking for things that are visually pleasing because the visual input is really important to my nervous system. Yeah, and like, that's so interesting, I'm gonna have to experiment with that. Because I do find myself looking outside at my tree outside of my office window a lot during the day. And it like has, it's a very quick look, but it has an effect on how I feel in my body and. And at night laying in bed. Often I'm going to bed at the similar time as my partner and I'm trying to be quiet and I have like a pillow wall for the light on my phone, all this stuff. And I just wonder like, maybe there's something there for me to experiment with around what I'm looking at on the phone that might tap into some of that internal shifting. Yeah, that's interesting. I've never really thought of myself as a visual person. Like as that being like a strong processing modality for me. So this is kind of interesting. So it clearly is. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, it's a good study. You know, to study yourself to find out like what wines you At what winds you down, and I was thinking, as you were talking, like the word winding also sounds so much gentler than like, the, what often can feel like a jolt that transitions feel like jolts and when we think of like winding up or winding down, and that, for me anyway, that sounds like gentler than, Oh, now I just have to shift gears I have to just go. And yeah, implies like, there's spaciousness to even experiment to just try some things and to I don't know, have ownership over that time. I think that people because they're tired, and they're stressed out, it's natural to want to, like, look, look up ways online or on social media, you know, how to do things, you know, but the or, or how to, like, relax. And I know, I don't know why he says, but the thing is, is when you have when you're more resource, which is during the day, there are plenty of pieces of evidence and opportunities to find out some things that you enjoy that may translate into some of the harder times, you know, to wind down like at night, which for me is harder than the proprioception thing. Can I just say two things about that? Because I so interesting. So, you know, since you taught me the wall push, I mean, of course, it's changed my life. So I didn't make it up. But I'm glad I know. I know. But I wouldn't have known it existed, right. But I think about that proprioception thing. So one with the wall push, I do know that I there's a signaling in my body at night when I have not done the thing to get me to be able to go to sleep, or it has been so much that my 20 things you have to do. From the start of the morning. I like my early morning sunlight, till bed. It's like all hands on deck to get mediocre sleep. Okay? But if I miss some of those things, or is it an especially stressful day, or I even go three minutes past, when I normally go to bed, it can kind of throw me off. But that wall push is something that does help kind of get me over the edge. In fact, there are times at night, when I wake up at two or three in the morning that I debate myself for a good, maybe 510 minutes, just get up and go do a little push, just get up and go do one Oh, wow. And when I do it, it works. The ruminating kind of starts to go down and my body is almost like, here we go back and I am able to fall asleep. More so than even some of the deep box breathing. That seems to be quick and effective. And then with with little one, she has started making me hug her differently before bed. So used to be just like a regular hug. If I get to do a little hug kiss. If that's not good, I have to get in there Reverend and I have to push down on the top of her head and squeeze her like a cocoon before. And then she's like, then I can go on that. And then we have the way to blanket and then she goes on. So yeah, I wonder if there's just more ways, because I have been a little bit more stressed out lately and a little bit. It's been harder for me to kind of stay out of activation. If I if to maybe do some of those things throughout the day is kind of a management of my system. Yeah, meet myself instead of waiting until it's all built up. And hoping that push will help at the end of the day. Yeah, does that does that make sense? Totally. And one of my favorite ones is the like push down gently on top of the head, like I am doing it right now it feels so good to me. And you just gently push down on the top of your head. And we do this at bedtime. We call it a push down. That's what the kids named it. And I even sometimes do it for Cory and I find that like and sometimes I'll move my way all the way down the body and push down all the way down to the toes. And just do like a gentle little squeeze. But yeah, it's it can be a really soothing sensory thing. I also really like doing kind of like this is going to be hard to describe but this happens when you get like a manicure. Sometimes where they take each individual finger and they kind of gently squeeze it and pull their hand down the finger and they do it like on each one And so it's kind of like they're trying to pull a glove off of you. That's another sensory one, I just cracked inocle. That's another sensory one that like, gets into some of that, like pressured touch, that feels really good in the system that are easy to do, I think in even discreet ways, but yes, I think playing with proprioception and that kind of input, especially in, in a system in a nervous system that's anxious and like wound up can be really soothing, very grounding. Yeah, especially my little one has my weighted blanket. Yeah, it's a good point to that, like, winding down, we sometimes need to wind down in order to work like we sometimes need to be able to like, or to connect with other people, like the winding down isn't just for rest and sleep. Sometimes it's for connection. And it is a really big part of being human. But we're just like in a world that has us activated all the time. So I love this topic. I love the idea of like, being curious about ways to introduce a winding down vibe, to you know, our day to day, and maybe seeing that kind of effect. The end of day. slink into bedtime. Yes. Yeah. Okay, well, we promised this wouldn't be too long, even though we could always talk more, but yeah, we can call it for now. Thanks for coming out. Yeah, you too. Okay.