14 - Healthy Aggression | The Sleepy Sisters Podcast

What does healthy aggression have to do with me? Why are so many people walking around unable to tap into anger? Let's chat about it!

Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
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Transcript

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Sarah, welcome back to the sleepy sisters Podcast. I'm Elizabeth brink, I'm Sarah Durham, and we are going to talk about healthy aggression, because we keep bringing it up in different episodes, and it's been something that, at least for me, Elizabeth, I've had it on my mind a lot lately in my household, so thought maybe we would chat about it today. Full transparency, this will be a shorter episode, because it's also summer break here, and my kids are unsupervised downstairs, and they have been slightly unhinged this morning, so I'm not sure how this will go and if they will actually make an appearance. And guess what? We're not going to edit it out. We're just going to go. You will hear them if you follow me on Instagram. Yesterday, shared a story that I had a consult call really early in the morning, and one of the kids ran in to say, there is a real emergency. I think I clogged the toilet. It was just one of those moments where I'm on camera, couldn't do a thing about it, and thankfully, this other person laughed. And I was like, Okay, I'll be right there. And it was at the end of the conversation. So they were like, Okay, I'll let you go. I'm like, Okay, what a nice out. If only they would do that for me, like when I want them to get me out of a conversation anyway, healthy aggression. So I wanted to say a couple things about this, to start, because people may be like, what is that? What are you talking about? So in somatic experiencing, there is this term that we call Healthy aggression. Peter Levine, the creator of se talks about healthy aggression as life force energy. So if you think about aggression and anger, the fight response and your nervous system, if you think of that as life force energy, that energetically when you experience anger and the fight response you are coming into contact with this energy within you that is fully motivated to protect you and to make sure that you survive, that you live. And so it's it can be a really powerful energy. It can be a really powerful source of energy for most people, I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna say that for most people, this is an energy that is thwarted from very early on in your life. It is disciplined out of a lot of us, and it is culturally and socially disciplined out of us and maybe even in our households, if you carry identities that are different from mine, which mine are white and CIS and all those things, I'm licked my brain today. Sorry y'all but if you are, you know, if you're a person who has certain disabilities, or you are a person of color, or you are poor or poor, like your relationship to anger is very different, and so definitely want To acknowledge that and say that, you know, generationally, we are taught and passed down how to handle this particular emotion, if we're allowed to handle it at all, and that some of what we say and share today may not resonate with your experience. And so we also want to say for people who do have a similar experience to us that like, Hey, your experience is not everyone's experience. Your ability to access anger or not of your own choosing, is a privilege, and not everybody has that privilege, unfortunately. But back to speaking about it as healthy aggression, and there's maybe more I should say there to hedge I didn't prepare because that's because we don't do that. So I hope you can give us a little grace and just hear that I'm saying relationships to things like anger and aggression and cultural norms and expectations and what it means to be safe are varied from person to person, so hopefully nothing we say is harmful, and if so, please reach out and tell us so we can correct it. Yeah, so healthy aggression is life force energy has really been giving me a run for my money in my household and I, when I started Somatic Experiencing training, the module where we talked about the fight response and a thwarted fight response, which is when you want to fight back and you can't, so you just push it down, you contain it. When we had that session, I approached our teacher machine. And was like, Are you saying I'm an angry person? And y'all, it was like the second module. So she's like, I don't know you, but I think her response was probably like, it depends, because that's what she says to a lot of things. And but it was so activating in my system, I can even feel a little bit of of it right now, a little buzzy in my cheeks, and like there is this energy in me, and I, even as I'm I jokingly, kind of said that to her, I also, internally, I have a sense of me as an angry person. And I I have for a very long time, I don't know if I can remember back to when or where I first had an awareness of like, I can get angry and I can, like, hulk out. But I definitely in friendships and in dating relationships, especially in dating relationships, I could access my aggression and my anger and all of that fury inside of me, and could be really mean, could be biting and sarcastic and rude or like impatient. There's all these ways it can look, and I think my relationship to that has been a lot of shame, and a lot of that is a bad way to be in the world and generally it can be harmful, right? And so when I started learning about healthy aggression, it really forced me to look back into the feelings of anger and frustration and kind of reframe them and see, like, Well, were there parts of that that were healthy, or what part of this is like my nervous system sending me a message that, like, hey, there's a threat here, and maybe you do need to speak up. Maybe there is a boundary you need to set. So I've been practicing trying to find ways to actually discharge healthy aggression, and it's something we do in somatic experiencing with clients. It's something I've done with my own practitioner, and it's something I've been trying to do with my family, because there's a lot of aggression in our household on any given day, which just generally looks like frustration. So I wouldn't say there is. It's not teetering toward abuse. It's more like just people with, you know, loud voices, lots of loud, angry feels in every direction, yeah, yeah. And the like, guttural, like, we call it hulking out, because it is kind of like this guttural, like just, it's not even always a directed commentary, and it's not always just the kids. So I think, you know, this has been helpful for me to think about, what does it mean to be in touch with the part of me that says something is not right here. And what do I do with that when I get that message? And is there a way to connect with that that doesn't create fear and immobilization in me, right? Because the habit is make that stop and pretend you don't feel that way, get that out of here. And so that's been a lot of the exploration we've been doing. There's lots of different exercises and stuff we've been trying in our house. But that's kind of why I wanted to bring the topic here too, because we've mentioned it a couple of times, and I think it's something that is worth kind of playing with in your mind and thinking about, like, can I access the fight response and healthy aggression when it's needed. Like, can I stand up for myself? Can I draw a boundary? Can I speak up? And if I can't, or I really struggle or feel really afraid, then like, maybe there's something here to be curious about. So Sarah, what do you think about when you hear the term healthy aggression? Yeah, so a lot of this stuff that you said resonate. I mean, obviously we have the same family of origin, even though that can vary, like even from Kid to Kid. But when I think about it, I think about like you said, How can I honor this feeling that's coming up that, I mean, I'm talking about, like right now, in this like, in the context of my life right now, that and discharge it and, like, deal with it in a way that doesn't it's not harmful to somebody else. And really helps me process that emotion to get to whatever is maybe underneath it, or whatever it is that its job is that day. And I think it's really tough. I mean, I think about my house first of all, like we did not really have access to this as kids. If you know, I think when. Think back about the talking back, quote, unquote, or like the things that would come up, you know, around, you know, fighting back, or saying something back or or doing something, whether it's was to each other or our parents, or even at school. I mean, it just it wasn't allowed. And I think Elizabeth, you really internalized that. I mean, I feel like I had a little more access to that when I was younger because of our personalities and maybe neurotypes. But when I think about that now, I'm also married to somebody who didn't with anger was not allowed to be expressed, right? My Gen, our generation, it just wasn't. Then we have kids who have sense of startle responses and even like words that, like might be firm or whatever, are mislabeled. And it just gets very like, you know, honesty and straightforwardness can get mislabeled as aggressiveness. So it gets really muddy around whatever aggressiveness means, or, you know, healthy aggression means, but when I think about it mostly, now that we've talked about a little bit just, you know, on our own as sisters, outside of this podcast today, it's really about, I need to have access to anger. What do I want to do with it? How do I want to get it out in a way that's like, really going to process it appropriately and not like, have stuff lingering, and what does that look like in the terms of, like my communal household and for my kids too, because I'll be honest, I'm working through this myself. And you know, when my kids have a certain reaction, depending on what it is, man, it's really uncomfortable. It takes everything inside of me for my system to ground down and be available way more than if they were to be hysterically crying or whatever the anger is really a tough emotion. It is, and I feel like, you know, depending on the way it was used in your family of origin, it can, like, for us, there was a lot of, like, icing people out. Like, that's how Mom, that's how her anger. It was, like, seething and icy and like, passive aggressive. It was like, totally hold this. But I want you to know that I'm not happy. Yeah. Like, there was this one time when she asked me to vacuum the living room. And I was a young adult at this point, like, I lived with her, like, into my 20s, so I was, I don't know, 18 or 19, probably, at this point, and she asked me to vacuum the living room, and I and I said, Yes, like, I will do that today. And I went about my day, it was a Saturday or something, went about my day, did a bunch of stuff, and I come in and she's vacuuming, yeah, she did that to me all the time. And I felt so irritated. And she also had this whole energy about her, and I feel like it created in me this panic of like, Oh, great. Now she's off, yeah, and she was because she wasn't clear about when she wanted it vacuumed. Like, the agreements were not in place, right? There wasn't that, like, I would like this vacuum this morning. I would like this vacuum right now. Are you available to do that? It was this, like, Yes, I'll do it today. Great. I'm taking this task off of your plate, and then I would come in and she'd be doing it, or would have done it. And then, you know, this happened regularly, and like, I wouldn't know what to do with my anger at her. I didn't even know why I would exactly what the anger was, right? Like, I would know I would feel angry, but I and even right now, I can feel it in me, like, just this, like, what are you doing? I said I would do it, right? Well, she didn't know what to do with her anger, so that's why she did it. And then she let everyone know, with the energy in the room, she's dissatisfied, right? So she had an ambiguous boundary, asked you to or a request, right? Asked you to do this thing. And then there was probably some boundary and you cross because you're like, my integrity. I said I was going to do this thing, and I'm like, yo, I'm neurodivergent. I'll do it when I do it, but I'm going to, like, I'm also demand avoidant a little, so a lot. And so it's like, you know, I don't like being asked to do things. When I am asked to do them. It's like, I'm gonna do it, but I have to come to it on my own. I gotta do it on my own terms. And that would create a lot of conflict because of, you know this, like it, what felt like? Controlling, right? Like this, an unfair controlling, because. And if you would have just told me, I want you to vacuum it right now. Can you do it right this minute? I might have said no, or I might have said yes, and done it right then, and been annoyed that I had to do it right away. But like it would have been done, and the communication would have been clear, and that that like pattern in our house for since the dawn of time, of like I have a need, I'm asking for it to be met. It's not being met the way that I want it to be met, but I didn't tell you how I want it to be met, and so I'm really irritated and angry that you didn't meet it the way I wanted you to. But now I'm not going to tell you I'm angry that you didn't meet it in that way, but I'm going to act like I'm angry, and then you're gonna feel my anger, but it's gonna be confusing, because I'm not saying that I'm angry, so you're it's now on you to just carry around the burden of my aggression, and that being like my relationship to anger is like everyone else is allowed to Have it, and I should carry it for them. Well, yeah. I mean, yes. And I feel, like, with the grown ups, I feel like the grown ups were allowed to have it because, like, it went even, like, into holidays where it was, like, you could feel it energetically in the room. Someone wasn't happy with something, and, like, the language was everyone's gonna know but like, no one's actually gonna address it. And but I think even within the kids, like, I feel like one of the hardest things as a parent now is the the fights that happen between the kids, you know, because someone will actually wrong somebody else, or say something that is not nice, or they both will. And I can't tell you how many times I'm standing in the middle of the living room and I'm like, I know that the pattern for our home was like, no one was allowed to act that way. Go to your room till you can straighten your face, basically, and then come back. But like, dealing with the hurt or the or whatever was caused, or, like, you just have to share, or you just have to do this or those things, don't, you know it's like that, doesn't. You don't get rights to like these things or whatever. There was no like sitting down, like, this is how you deal with conflict. This is what you do, and man, that is the hardest part of not having had access to that healthy aggression. And what that's supposed to look like is parenting my own kids and like they're yelling at each other, or they're and I'm like, You're y'all are both hurting each other right now, we have to take a pause, and there's all these layers, sort of like sometimes they both do need a little time to themselves, and I have to give myself permission, of like, I'm not sending them away. They're just getting time to themselves, like we're talking to them each, like I'm not doing the same pattern, like the agreements within myself is so much work. And then like, well, what does that actually look like? Do I need to watch a video? Or, like, what do I how do I sit down and say, like, well, you don't actually have to share this thing. This is yours, right? And also, we're in a community where you have some someone who's looking at this thing that they really want to play with and like, what you know, what is the answer? And it's like talking through it and letting them kind of come to these decisions. It requires so much time and spaciousness with my nervous system and my yeah and presence and presence and like, yeah and allowing some autonomy. And also, like the teaching part, I mean, it's really I find my kids fighting enormously triggering, like I find I will find myself instantaneously in like, a spirally mix of freeze, sometimes fight, you know, sometimes I'll get really stern and I'll start making threats, which is what happened just before this call about, you know, if you want this, if you want to do that, then you have and like that is a lot of how I was parented. And I get it, it's so overwhelming. Our parents did that ease of flooding, right? Of like, oh my gosh, I get completely overwhelmed and flooded, and my capacity for that is really compromised. As you were talking, I'm remembering that this past weekend, I had a bit of a tantrum myself in front of other people than my family, which was uncomfortable. No, we had this cookout and invited this group of people. And I know you said, Oh no, because it's like an event, right? Events? This is the pattern in our family. Is. Like the women in our heritage, at least the tag women, when they are hosting are not fun to be around. Well, because y'all take on everything. And I say y'all because I really have, like, broken this used to be you too, but yeah, me too, which will take on everything, because agreements are not clear, that's right? And then resentment, well, the resentment comes after the overwhelm, right? It's like breaking on too much, and we're overwhelmed, and now our whole nervous system is buzzing, and so then there's no capacity for things to not go according to plan, or for there to be any kind of questioning or pushback or just any additional input, sensory input, right? So we had this cookout. Cory got up really early to smoke some pork butt in the smoker, and I kept it really simple, like, Since covid started when we host now I am like, we're making one thing. Like, I'm not doing a lot of that that I used to do. Like, well, I should just provide all the sides. It's so nice to go to a party and it not be a potluck. Yes, that's true. This is not that. This is huge. Lots of people coming, we're not going to do all the things. And so anyway, we also have not taken care of this is going to sound random, but we have not taken care of our outdoor chairs, and so they've been outside for years. And of course, they've just all decided this spring to start splitting. They're like some weird kind of outdoor fabric stuff. So chair after chair keeps breaking. So I'm like, Okay, we're having all these people over. We've told people to bring a chair, but also, like, Corey and I are getting to the point where we don't even have a chair, because they all keep breaking, like eight of them anyway. So everything was set. I didn't have anything else to do. I had, like, an hour and a half until people were gonna arise. So I decided to go. Sarah's shaking her head no at me. I decided I predict. Can I predict what happened that you just had to go buy new chairs. I needed to go buy new chairs. Oh, I hate you right now. Um, so I needed my new chairs, and I have been eyeing these outdoor chairs. There's a couple people at my se training that bring them. Sometimes they're like, fancy, they're outdoor chairs that fold up, but they also rock. They're awesome. So I've been eyeing them. So I went to Home Depot, which is close, and they didn't have any kind of outdoor chairs like that. They only had, like, nice outdoor seating stuff. And I was like, Oh, shoot. So I called Cory, as I'm on my way to a different, like, local hardware store, Sutherlands. Just give Casey local a little shout out. And Cory is like, do we really need these chairs? And I'm just still thinking, do we need them today? Right? Right? That was actually the question. And it's like, there is still legitimately time and I don't have any tasks. It's not like, then when I get back, I'm gonna have to hurry and do XYZ, so I'm managing. And I am noticing, like, okay, yes, it's tight, but I really people are just arriving. Like, there's I texted Cory a list of prep tasks that people were coming early to do and told them, like, where to set stuff up. So I really felt like I had the freedom to, like, go and do this. So I went to this other hardware store. They were deeply on sale. I was it was very satisfying. I got these two chairs. Only got two I went home, and when I got home, some of our close friends were here, and they were doing some of the setup, and the way they had set things up was not how I envisioned. And y'all at this point, I'm a little sweaty, so that's my tell. If I'm sweaty, I'm probably going to have an outburst. If I don't, if I don't, like actually cool off and cool off my my my feelings, so I'm a little bit sweaty, I'm a little bit rushed, and now I also have the pressure of all these people who not all these people, just a few people who have a difference of opinion on how things should be set up in the backyard. And I couldn't cope. I I came in, of course, the kids immediately had questions for me, because they just always can find a question for me. And Corey was like, dealing with the grill, and he's kind of looking at me like, What do you want? Where do you want us to put these tables, or whatever? And I just, yeah, I was snippy. I was just like, was you eyeballed so you had not done you did not have the time and the spaciousness to make the agreement with yourself that if you are going to be getting the chairs, whatever help that you got, and it didn't look the same like you, sometimes we need. Do that with ourselves, right? Like, yeah. Like, I didn't, yes, I didn't negotiate with myself. This means you will not be in charge of or in control of how the setup will go, because even at one point, Corey was, like, if you cared, you should have been here then for that part. And I just, like, sent him a text which was very detailed, and I just assumed he would execute it and tell people exactly what I said, which it was like, chairs on the driveway, anyway, just anyway, very specific. Then that's not what happened. And it was fine. It all worked out just fine, right? But at one point I was in the kitchen while Cory was like, Sure, ending the pork. And I was just like, I really hate when people see me like that. And he and I had cooled off at this point, and I it was kind of, I was joking a little bit, but, I mean, it was a honest thing I was saying. And he was like, Yeah, I bet that looks so uncomfortable, you know. And I just was like, it. It was a new experience of embarrassment, because I didn't feel like I was spiraling out. I didn't feel ashamed. It just was like, not how I would prefer to present myself, as, like, flustered and irritated and a little bit controlling. I'm like, I like these people too. And so I also was just like, you know, I am a human. I'm not going to, like, apologize for being human. But also like, I'm sorry that I made that tense because I did, like, they weren't here for a cookout to help, and I was just like, wound up. And what I just felt so much of that old stuff, of like, oh, this is the old how we entertain guests, and that, like, I was mad that Corey didn't have them do exactly what I sent in the text, yeah. And he was, like, unwilling to take ownership of my anger in that, you know, he was just like, that's on you. You should have been here well. And I think, fair, yeah, fair. And, and also too. Like, you know, I was just thinking about sometimes when we have a response, like you had, and you go and you start kind of reflecting on that, like, sometimes shame can come in, because it's like, why do I need to have everything this way? Why would I? And it's like it doesn't matter. It's just what matters is, you know that about yourself, and what agreements do I need to make with myself and really mentally prep myself? Listen, I'm all are neurotypes. I'm all about like, mentally preparing my kids myself for unmet expectations, keeping those things flexible. And I think you just, next time, you just won't do that to yourself. If you have decide it will be another part of your agreement. Like, well, how? Well, hey, I, I know I've got the time. I don't have any of this necessary prep to do. And also, if someone's going to show up early, or if there's miscommunication in the text, am I willing to like? Let it not be set up. And I think that all I honest to god know you so well. And I think that very brief conversation with yourself, I really think you would have been fine. Oh yeah, if I had just let it go. Because I think I felt, I felt responsible for making sure they they knew what to do like. So I guess even the me saying that I had nothing to do is actually really not true, because I sent Cory a list of, like, what we were going to tell I was going to tell people what to do, right? So it was, it was like, well, he's there. He can do that. He can say, put this stuff on the driveway, put this table over here. And I think, you know, as I think about this idea of healthy aggression, you know, when I when I came back and I was activated, and I was, like, clearly frustrated, and I was really, really trying to contain the frustration. And what would you have done differently? Like, I did not want to lash out at people. But I also, I'm sure, because they know me, they could feel that I was not okay. And some of the ways that I helped to discharge, some of that was like I went into the house where the air conditioning was, and that required me to kind of jog up a few steps. So just physically moving my body a little bit, helping some of that energy that, like, wants to kind of lash out, helping it move. Went in, cooled off a little bit, got a drink. Also was just like, who cares? You know, got some perspective pretty quickly, because I didn't have a bunch to do. So it wasn't like I came in to a bunch of tasks, and now this thing over here didn't go right. It was just like, that was all I had to think about. And I was like, I don't really care. I don't want to think about that. And then Corey came in, and I was able to, like, make this joke and connect, right, that connection presence, right, where I just felt like, yeah, okay, that wasn't ideal. I think at one point I don't know if I was. Outside or inside. He was like, What do you want? And I said, I can't cope. I do remember saying that like, I remember feeling so buzzy in my body that I was just like, You cannot ask me any more questions. I can't I can't function right now. And that's when I went inside to cool off, and I feel like, you know, that's a new pattern, like not just feeling like, well, you have to function, you're here, so now just make everyone miserable. Yeah, like, that's the thing is that, like, the women are family. They just would not leave, because they still are like, Well, I have a task I have to do, and I'm going to sit here and I'm going to do them, instead of, like, that's the thing about that. I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned from you over this last year and a half or so around some of the somatic stuff is, like, it doesn't actually take as long as we think it does to just give ourselves a minute and, like, I like the thing of, like, going into a room and like, doing the full squeeze From head to toe, like, like, that, like, and then just letting it kind of drain from me, like, but the connection piece, but all those things of like, it doesn't actually take that long and but we don't always give ourselves that moment. So the fact that you went in and got cool and attempted, sometimes it's like you don't even know what to do, but the fact that you've attempted to meet that need softens your system. Do you find that? Like, yeah, and I don't even, as I'm telling the story about that happening, a tiny, tiny bit of activation came up, but not a lot. And that tells me that, like, there is a little something there from that day that maybe I should do something with. But also, there's not a lot there. It wasn't like that big of an event. It was just this, like little mini event. That is a good example of what happens to me internally a lot when things don't go according to plan, and I feel my neuro divergence come in hot in those moments where the ability to access curiosity and flexibility is completely off the table, and I'm, you know, hijacked by this combination of things, and it happens when I'm with my kids, but it often happens when anger is a component, and that's part of why I've been so curious in this last year around, how can I, you know, kind of parse out what pieces of this are anger, what am I angry about? What is, what is my system trying to tell me the threat is and what else is here? Because a lot of times it's other stuff is there too, and and then trying to find, like, how do I give myself permission to say that was disappointing, that it wasn't set up the way that I wanted it to be set up, and that I felt on the spot, yeah, because I felt like my way to set it up was the best way. And so now I felt put on the spot, like I have to be direct and tell these people they have set it up wrong, which is not exactly what I said. I just was like, Yeah, I don't want to get into the nitty gritty, because it's not that important. But it's like, in my mind, there were, I couldn't get to the flexible point of what their perspective was, of of why they set it up in the reverse of where I thought things should go. So it's like they also were doing their best and thought it was, yeah, it's interesting. It would be interesting to think about, like, what would what you actually registered as a threat there? I mean, I think about, for me to try to access healthy aggression, right? Of like, parsing out, like, what is actually, like, you know, me just being completely, like, activated in a way that's, I'm going to discharge it in a way that's, that's not good for anybody and and for me, like, I do notice that, like, when I'm tending to my system pretty regularly throughout the day, um, I have a much easier time saying the thing or saying I'm disappointed or whatever, and feeling like I'm still grounded in myself, like, you know, that kind of blended like, state Of like, I'm okay, but like, this is not okay. But I think it's really challenging for me as well to do that around big events like, or like, huge event, but it was like, there's all of these things at play, and the reality that, like, I go on a morning walk, I could do meditation, I could do whatever, but then that event comes around, and the thing is, you have to activate that life force to get the things done right, and then excited about the chairs. And the thing is, like, all of that is building that energy, right, but not all of it's like, quote, unquote, like, not bad, I don't wanna use that word, but like, it's not all, like, it's. It's, it's all anger. It's not all anger. It's like life force. And then it all gets all jumbled, yeah, exactly like a precipice, and you go over the cliff and you're like, the chairs aren't set up, right? Like, whatever, you know. And that is also part of being twice exceptional. And your neurotype, my neurotype of like, we have really big feels so like, when we feel joyful, we feel like the things, it's like a lot of times it's that energetic buildup that just comes on very quickly and big, and it's floody. But like you said, not all of it's anger. Some of it's like, you're excited to see the people and like, you're actually want to enjoy and be present. And there's just a lot, there's sensory stimuli, the kids coming at you. So it's like, but the way it will come out is that last tipping point of something that's like, if you don't have the time to reset or whatever, well, yeah, and then just the whole story gets packaged into this one thing with a title that has something very negative about me in it. You know, the time I was, uh, fill in the blank with any x, yes. And I want to make this point real quick, because in that too, like, if you had come home and everything had been done right, right, here's the reality of like our neurotype, is that it could have still not ended well. And we see this with our kids. Sam, okay, my when there's a lot of energetic buildup, even in the positive, let's say everything was done, right? Yes, he will sometimes get very agitated because of that big influx of big fields. Yeah, at the end, it'll be labeled, mislabeled. Like, what's your problem? What's going on with you? Why are you acting this way? What? Like, you know, whatever. And it's like, well, it actually was all good, and I'm so glad that, but it's still flooding, but it's still flooding. And so then it ends up being this kind of agitated, energetic state that he needs to, kinda like, that's so good. I'm like, worried about that happening this afternoon, because we're going to the pool, and there's been all this, you know, sighting, but they're both tired, and I'm like, these are the kinds of days where the great thing about the pool, though, is the sunlight. They're in the water, and they're moving their bodies. Now, I've still seen my kids more of the after the pool. It's the after the pool. That's right, that's right. It's so good, yeah, it's like, coming home is going to be interesting. And I've already prepared Corey for that. Like they're they that is when they look angry, right? Is when they've had a really full, really good day and they're exhausted, they have big meltdowns and lots of ragey looking feelings, and it can be really hard to interact with. It can be really hard to manage, because you literally just have to get over the finish line and get them into bed, and they don't understand what's happening in their bodies, and you can respond to it in a way that can make it a bigger deal than it needs to be. That makes it more painful for everyone, and we certainly have done that before, too, and so I've learned, at least in that sense, that like it looks like anger, but it's exhaustion. There are so many things that are mislabeled anger. I just this. I mean, I know we probably are going to have to wrap up soon, but I was even thinking just about, like, in the opposite end of like, even just being honest and straightforward, right, can be labeled as aggressive. Oh yeah. I mean, like, there's so many things that, like, we just don't know, and we want to have access to these things, but at the same time, when they are presenting to community, to society, to other people, even to ourselves, it's a very confusing relationship, because there's a lot of mixed messaging And a lot of different things coming in, and I don't even know if it matter, I don't know like but is, is a really hardy topic. It is, yeah, because I also think about that directness and how depends on what your nervous system is doing energetically behind that direct right, can feel aggressive, even if the person honestly, that was my issue last weekend was I felt like me saying, This isn't how I wanted it set up, because I was so all that life force, energy, excitement and just busyness, was built up in me, energetically. I couldn't control the affect with those words, like, I couldn't control that energy coming through, and so it looked angrier than I didn't actually feel angry. I felt like, I think I did say It's just frustrating, but I don't think I actually was. I wasn't mad at any of the people for helping. Yeah, I was a little bit irritated. With Corey, because I felt like he could have prevented me from getting that place, which is my own work, to do, um, and but it was more just that, like what you're saying, there was this huge build up, and I I needed to tend to that. I needed to discharge that in a way that didn't like come out my mouth at other people, and there was going to be no easy breezy to be had no because I was, like, standing in front of a bunch of people, like, there was no way to be, like, I'm going to need a minute. Well, actually, I could have done that, but I didn't have the wherewithal to do that, because they were all asking, like, where did you want this? Where'd you want that? And I was like, not in any of these places. All wrong. Yeah, I just, I think about this idea of, like, healthy aggression and anger, and then all of what you're saying about, like, being very excitable and having really big feelings, these things are, like, very enmeshed for me, and it's been a lot to try to start to pull them apart and see them for what they are. And I have felt really in a good way, challenged by this idea that somewhere in there is also this life force energy piece that and there is this other piece where we can access healthy aggression. We can discharge aggression in a way that's healthy and safe for our body and for other people's bodies. And getting really curious about how can I give my body what it needs to release and process some of just energetically, the legitimate anger and frustration that comes up just being human in this, like, messed up place we live in. You know, it's a trip. It's a trip. No, we said this was going to be a short one, and it wasn't. It could be, well, hey, they didn't come in and storm the gates. They didn't but I did hear the door chime, so they might be outside. Thankfully, they're old enough now that that doesn't cause a bunch of intrusive thoughts for me. So, so good, yeah? Okay, this was really good. I feel like we barely scratched the surface, but we did, but yeah, I I feel like, Yeah, but we're not going to promise the second part, because we No, no, no, we don't do that, but we might talk about this again at some point. I'm sure it will come up, especially because I want to, I do want to talk at some point about embarrassment. Yeah, yeah. And I think that overexcitabilities piece will keep coming up because of our narrative. It just will because it's all of the things and they're amplified, I mean, and that varies from person to person. But you know, the big feels, the big feelers out there, you know, it's, it's nuanced, and it's exhausting, and that shame just comes right in. It's just like, ready to be like. Society likes us to be like, chill and compliant and and also, like, beautiful and, you know, consistent and hard working all these things that require your nervous system to be activated. Yeah, I know, right. So confusing. So confusing. Like, you can't actually do work unless there's some energetic activation in your system, yeah? So when you have a sensitive nervous system, it's like, oh, we're going to fight. Let's go whoa. I just need a little bit of Yeah, just a sip. Just a sip. All right, thanks for chatting. I hope you have a good rest of your day. You love you, all right. Love you too. Bye, bye.