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The Price You Pay
Host Natalie Cook, Olympic gold medalist and five-time Olympian, shares the inspiring and untold stories of athletes who face financial obstacles in their pursuit of becoming Olympian's and Paralympian’s.
Discover the sacrifices, challenges, and unwavering determination behind their pursuit of greatness.
Be inspired by their resilience and determination to turn their dreams into reality.
The Price You Pay
15: Taylor Gosens is the 2nd Women Ever to Don the Green & Gold in Para-Judo
Get ready to be inspired as we welcome Taylor Gosens and her father, Gerrard Gosens, to the Price You Pay podcast.
Taylor, a para judo athlete who recently showcased her talents at the Paralympic Games in Paris, shares her journey from Brazilian jiu-jitsu to the gripping world of para judo. You’ll hear about her incredible ambition to compete at the 2032 Games in Brisbane and the sacrifices she’s made along the way.
Gerrard, a former multi-sport athlete for Australia, provides a heartfelt perspective on supporting Taylor through the unique challenges of her low vision, turning personal hurdles into heartwarming victories.
Join us as Taylor and Gerrard open up about the resilience and strength required to overcome daily obstacles, from being stranded in foreign lands to mastering the art of independence. Their stories are a testament to courage, painting a vivid picture of life with visual impairment and the determination needed to pursue athletic dreams.
Taylor’s candid recounting of travel mishaps and the everyday logistics of living with low vision highlight both the emotional and logistical challenges she faces. Meanwhile, Gerrard shares his own experiences as a father navigating unfamiliar territory, emphasizing the unwavering bond that drives them forward.
We also explore the financial landscape of elite sports, highlighting the immense costs and resourcefulness needed to support an athlete's dreams. Discover how Taylor balances work and training, while Gerrard innovates to expand opportunities for para-athletes, introducing creative solutions like the swim tether.
Taylor’s gratitude for the support from platforms like the Aussie Athlete Fund underscores the importance of robust support systems. With vivid anecdotes, including Taylor’s amusing take on her fear of moths, this episode is a heartfelt exploration of ambition, resilience, and the journey of a father-daughter duo committed to breaking barriers in the world of sports.
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My name is Talika Clancy and I'm a proud Wiliwili woman, and I wish to acknowledge the land on which the Price you Pay podcast is being recorded Minnijin Country. We pay homage to the tradition of storytelling when we share athlete journeys and we extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
Nat Cook:I'm Nat Cook, five-time Olympian and gold medalist. Welcome to season two of the Price you Pay podcast, where we explore the hidden costs and barriers young athletes face in their pursuit of sporting greatness. Come with us as we delve into the lives of young athletes and their families to better understand what it truly takes to reach their dreams.
Sarah Maxwell :How exciting that today on the podcast, we welcome a woman forging new ground in the sporting world as she became the second woman ever to don the green and gold in para judo. As Taylor Gossens stepped on the mat at the recent Paralympic Games in Paris, she navigated her way out of the shadows of legendary father Jared Gossens, who represented Australia in multiple sports for the past 30 years, competing at three Paralympic Games and over a dozen world championships. Taylor was born with Jared's congenital eye condition and has just 4% vision. Initially she was into Brazilian jiu-jitsu but transitioned to judo and now has big dreams as a judoka leading up to the 2032 Games in Brisbane. But choosing para judo as her sport means there are no international competitions in Australia.
Sarah Maxwell :Furthering the hurdles this 26-year-old will need to jump over to realize her dream. She is now on a mission to raise funds for her international travel, her coaching costs, her equipment and competition fees. It's a lot. Even her entrepreneurial dad, jared, who has multiple chocolate shops around Brisbane, can't save his little girl from the rising cost of living and sport at the highest level. We are delighted to sit down with these two champions and discover the price you do pay to live out your sporting dreams. So welcome dad and daughter. Duo, your sporting dreams.
Taylor Gosens:So welcome dad and daughter duo to the price you pay podcast.
Sarah Maxwell :Woohoo, thank you, yay. Okay, so I gave dad that little plug, so he knows that today's about you, taylor, so we're going to start with you. Good, he's going to control himself as best he can over there. And, taylor, I really want to congratulate you on stepping into your own sporting lane, because qualifying for your first Paralympic Games and para judo like it's no small thing to carve out your own career when you've lived with a champion like your dad, all your life so well done, thank you, and we're just we're not even gonna warm into this Like what was it like owning your own dreams and future when you were growing up watching your dad's successes all these years?
Taylor Gosens:It. It was a bit surreal, like I think I said, the whole time it just felt like a dream. Um, obviously, when you live, you know you grew up with someone like dad Jared. Um, everything he did was normal to me. It wasn't different because that's what I grew up with. You know, I grew up with a dad who, morning and night, would go running, or he'd go rock climbing on the weekend to train for Everest, or he'd go to dancing classes for dancing stars. All that was just normal to me. That wasn't out of the norm.
Taylor Gosens:Um, but in saying that, I think until I really took the plunge and was like, okay, I actually want to do this. You know, I want to try and go to the Paralympics for my sport that I fell in love with. Um, I don't think I understood just how much it takes until I, you know, I stepped into it myself. Um, so, yeah, it was. It was very different. It was surreal because obviously, you know, I watched dad. He'd get all his kit, so for me, getting my own kit was really fun. Um, and then, yeah, getting to be on the mats and on the stage was pretty incredible yeah, that was really well explained.
Sarah Maxwell :Actually that the fact that it was normal for dad to be like that did that make it feel more possible and normal for you or less possible for you?
Taylor Gosens:I've always said that, like I think before even I made the goal before the Paralympics. It was that that's dad. He's made that possible for himself and I think I always said, oh, I could never do what he does. Okay, but yeah, it was. It's hard to explain because I didn't live a normal life growing up.
Sarah Maxwell :obviously, that's right, because it's the only life that you know. Yeah, it's yeah, just, and that's it. Like you just explain what it feels like to be you as best you can. And so, yeah, can you give us a lowdown on para judo? So like, was it an easy transition from jiu-jitsu, is it like wrestling? Like what's unique about para judo?
Taylor Gosens:it's. It is a little bit like jiu-jitsu and wrestling. Um, it's similar to wrestling and jiu-jitsu in the way that. So the main goal of judo is to throw them on their back. You get upon, you get a point, you win. That's how you win in judo. But if they land on their shoulder and you keep going because they're not on both their shoulders you go into either hold down, like wrestling, or you go into submissions like jiu-jitsu.
Sarah Maxwell :Interesting, so there's like a combo.
Taylor Gosens:And how it differs from normal mainstream judo is that we start with grips. So we start with grips to the start, just so you know we're not whirling our arms around accidentally hitting each other trying to get grips oh, I see it's meaning like you're actually in contact grips.
Sarah Maxwell :Yes, yeah, so you're in contact with each other.
Taylor Gosens:Um, whereas in mainstream they start without grips and they fight for a grip, for a dominant grip on the lapels, on the sleeves, all of that.
Sarah Maxwell :And am I so today I'm going to work really hard to not make assumptions, but I think I might do some. So please just correct me. That's okay, but I'm imagining that you have like a superpower when it comes to feeling, like your sense of, because all of a sudden my mind went to how does she know if they're on their back or on their shoulder, like how do you make that distinction, or is that something that's always been kind of natural for you, like you can just feel things?
Taylor Gosens:It is. The sport is very much about feel. So you're feeling where your opponent's weight is, so if it's in their front foot, in in their back foot, if they're going towards the left foot, like it is all about feeling and feeling about where it is and taking advantage of that, and it's the same when they're on the ground so cool. It's a very contact sport.
Sarah Maxwell :So yeah, got it. You're always like, literally you start in contact with each other fascinating.
Sarah Maxwell :Yeah, okay, dad, you have done I'm very impressed I didn't think you'd last this long, so we want to welcome. Right, I think dad had to meditate, so welcome dad to the conversation. Thank you, look, I know you've been uber busy. You've opened a new chocolate cafe in brisbane, which we love, by the way, and our daughter Jordan loves. You've just returned from your mammoth attempt to swim the English Channel, so I can just imagine that the past months have been a whirlwind for your entire family. And yet today we're focusing on Taylor and what she has achieved. So from your perspective.
Sarah Maxwell :Can you do this Right? It's about taylor, so so get ready. So, as her dad, what have you observed? That it is taken for her to step into her own lane of para judo to qualify for her first para games sarah, I think for me, um and it was wasn't just through sport itself, it was from when Taylor was first born.
Jarred Gosens:I said, and have said many times, that my biggest challenge as a father was that if Taylor was born a male, I could have passed on the tricks of the trade that I had learned through my life, growing up not just as an athlete but as a pure young kid through to adulthood, whereas being a female and travelling through sport, I didn't know what I didn't know in the sense of what would be the things that she would have to learn, even, for example, just travelling on her own as a female around the world trying to qualify for the Paralympic Games. And you know, as parents, for example, when Taylor was, for example, one of her flights was missed, was not by her but by the actual plane and she was stuck in Turkey for a couple of days, couple of days now for a young girl who is, you know, has four percent vision. And to be stuck in a country such as turkey, um, or any other country, there are some, you know, fears that any parent has. But growing up and finding her own dreams and even just the day-to-day training of, you know, finding necessary transport it as a as a paralyic athlete.
Jarred Gosens:At times competition is perhaps the easy bit. It's a day-to-day training. It's a day-to-day training of finding, whether it be public transport or getting a taxi, or finding a gym that's accessible, and not necessarily for a person who's blind or has a vision. It could be for a wheelchair athlete or for an amputee athlete and it's finding, I suppose, coach, um or a support guy that actually can assist and knows how to work with you, uh, as a an athlete who has low vision or is totally blind. So there are some unique challenges for any person, but more so for a father and a daughter who is, is female and not knowing those those small things as a father, because you haven't lived that life, you haven't experienced those moments.
Sarah Maxwell :Wow, thank you so much for that vision of her in Turkey on her own, because I think that that really speaks to parents. Taylor, can you remember that moment? What was it like from your perspective? What was it like it was?
Taylor Gosens:awful. It was so bad. I was coming back from Baku and I had previously already been over in the UK for like two months, solely because, you know, I had comps nearly back to back. So I thought I may as well stay in in in the UK and take the opportunity to be able to train with the GB team, and so I wanted to get home already, and our first flight got delayed for ages. I was lucky because I got put with the South African team and then we got to Turkey.
Taylor Gosens:Um, and then the I missed my flight by like five minutes not even it was awful and then we went up to the service desk and the South Africans got their own, you know, flight. They had already left, so they're by myself. They wouldn't tell me anything. I didn't get anything until, like, I was there for like eight hours plus until they were telling me what, what was going to happen, and they'll tell me I was gonna have to wait for two more days because there weren't any flights. Um, so, navigating, you know, through the airport, through buses, you know the hotel, eating at a hotel um, yeah, it was very scary did that.
Sarah Maxwell :Grow you up, taylor, big time. Oh yeah, I cried I called my mom crying. I called my brother crying.
Taylor Gosens:I was like I don't know what's gonna happen, but you know they don't speak very much English. They weren't very sympathetic, exactly like it was so stressful.
Sarah Maxwell :I've got goosebumps as a parent because I've I've been you, taylor, the person alone, because that has all its crying. But then I thought, as a parent, to get the crying phone call when you're in the others on the other side of the world I mean, I think you spoke to that really nicely Jared is like as the dad who's a male, not a female you feel helpless. You know there's this sense of what can you do when she's over there?
Jarred Gosens:I think it's more so some of the smaller factors, and let's take away the perhaps the sport issue. It's more so the day-to-day daily activities, for example. Day-to-day daily activities, for example. You know, I could let's say, for example, walking into a men's toilet. Okay, so hypothetically I could say, listen, you can orientate yourself, because perhaps you could hear, you know, the urinal being flushed or the basins being flushed or the toilets, simple things. But for a young girl, for example, how do I tell her about makeup?
Taylor Gosens:how do I?
Jarred Gosens:tell her about makeup, about clothing? How do I tell about selecting, or all those other small things? Or even, you know, the women's health issues? How do I tell her how to educate that, from a blind and vision impaired perspective, on the things that will help you through that day-to-day life?
Sarah Maxwell :and who has filled that gap for you, taylor? Has there been someone like a mentor?
Taylor Gosens:Yeah, my mum, 100% my mum. My mum has helped me through so much and I've put the poor woman through so much trying to figure those things out and trying to find solutions. But my mum, we so wanted.
Sarah Maxwell :Heather to be like your mum, to be on the call today, especially for this next question, because and so embody her as best you can, jared, but can you take us back when you and heather were deciding to have children? Like did you discuss the possibility of passing on vision, the vision impairment? What's your thinking around all that?
Jarred Gosens:when we, um, when we first obviously discussed having children, we, uh, we had asked them because there was no previous history in my family of, obviously, the vision impairment. We went ahead with it. And then when our first child, jordan, was born and he had no vision problems, we thought, okay, well, this is fine. And then obviously we went on with Taylor problems. We thought, okay, well, this is fine. And then obviously we went on with with Taylor. That was, I suppose, a life-changing event in its own right, because Taylor was.
Jarred Gosens:I was in the operating theater with Heather, we had a cesarean, and when they placed Taylor into my arms and she was in the humidity crib the crib beside the bed and Taylor grabbed my finger with a tiny little hand and sort of pulled it closer towards her face, I had this instantaneous sort of sinking feeling that I knew something wasn't right and while the doctors hadn't picked up, so I called the doctors over again and asked her to look at Taylor, and that's where, obviously, they told me that she had obviously had a vision impairment. And to me that was almost a fainting moment because, as I said previously, you know, I, I knew the tricks of the trade, I knew how to help her as a male, but from a female respect. You know, as I said before, how the hell would teach you how to put makeup on as a, as a young girl who has, you know, four percent vision vision, and it's always a small stuff. You sort of sweat, and even Sarah, for example, you know Kerry Gockel, who is a double-arm amputee. You may or may have not met and she's a swimmer. You know, for example, with Kerry being a double-arm amputee, you know how does she scratch her nose. You know all those tiny little things that you think about from people like Kerry and Taylor and from a female perspective.
Jarred Gosens:That was the challenge, both as a father and also travelling through sport. You know, as a HIPAA pathway, it's not just the competition, it's okay making sure that you actually know where your boarding pass is, or how the hell do you find your luggage, your baggage, on your own? How?
Sarah Maxwell :do you do that.
Jarred Gosens:When it's going by the carousel.
Sarah Maxwell :Like you know those small things. What is the trick there, please? What the heck?
Taylor Gosens:So I don't have it anymore. But I had a phone case the same color as my suitcase, so I could ask people. I'm looking for my suitcase. It's the same color as this phone. Can you help?
Sarah Maxwell :otherwise. I just use the magnifier on my phone so am I to assume that you have to have a certain level of trust and confidence in the people around?
Taylor Gosens:you, because you ask for help, because it looks exactly the same as someone else's you're so right, you've never had your color taken before it's all the little things, yeah.
Jarred Gosens:So it's not only this, sarah, but of course, for example, when you're in a place like Turkey, if you can't see what you're eating and you can't see the menu you can't read the menu because it's in a different language yeah, what do you do?
Sarah Maxwell :Do you guys have, like some technology to read emails and is there something that's assist like? Do you have some technical assistance?
Jarred Gosens:Yeah, like I have obviously a voice, I have a screen reader on my computer, and then Talon might use a magnifier voiceover on your iPhones, or you can ask Thierry, obviously, a question.
Jarred Gosens:Technology has come a long way, sarah, and I think this leads into its own funny, because as we go further with technology, at times it becomes even harder. And I'll give you a good example of that is that I used to go and use the men's toilets all the time and they were pretty easy. Okay, you go to the toilet, you come out. You go to the tap, you turn the tap on, water comes out, that's fine.
Taylor Gosens:Okay.
Jarred Gosens:Then time moves on. You go into the toilets, you go to the toilet, you come back and now you actually have to push the button which gives you a certain amount of water, and so the allocation monitor again. You push the button down again. These days, any number of toilets you go to, and now I actually more often not go to an accessibility toilet, and reason being is because if you go to the toilets these days, we all are sensitive.
Jarred Gosens:Under the taps around the tap I look like I'm doing bloody tai chi and it's everywhere. So I look like I'm either having a fit or I'm practicing tai chi in the men's store. So I go to the accessibility store so I don't look like I'm doing tai chi for everyone to see yeah, you're alone doing tai chi that's right, because you have no idea where the sensor is is at the back of the tap, is at the front of the tab, and so you know that's right jared.
Sarah Maxwell :This will make you feel better. We're all doing tai chi. You just can't see that none of us are working that system very well. Um, if that helps at all. But no, not to take away from how. Sometimes, even like you saying, who's actually putting that accessibility unit together? Possibly not someone with vision impairment, and thank you for sharing what you did about that moment when you realize, you know, with Taylor as a child, do you feel that your perspective has changed? Do you feel that your perspective has changed Like so there's that moment as a baby where you said it's like a fainting moment. And then now, here she is, at 26. She went to her first Paralympic Games in Paris. You weren't there, like she did all of that. Do you have a shift in your perspective than you did when she was first born?
Jarred Gosens:The shift in perspective has never changed because, as I said, I never knew the tricks of the trade. I never could help, as, for example, I couldn't help my son, who's, you know, fully sighted, in getting his driver's license. Um, there, that the things that I suppose, as a parent who's totally blind, where you're, you're always in the back of your mind or your heart. You, you know, you feel pain that you couldn't assist in those moments, but they're. I suppose they're what we call a fact of life.
Jarred Gosens:But for what Taylor's achieved and the pathway that she's chosen and it wasn't an easy pathway because, for example, she could have done, I don't know, athletic cycling where there's pathways and there's structures in place to support her, but she's traveled on the pathway where there's little, if no support available for a young girl and then, secondly, to do it on her own and to travel to the places she traveled and to get through the, as I said, the small stuff. You know, I just heard yesterday that the brisbane international airport is going to not require you to do a rider boarding pass and inside I'm going hooray, hooray, hooray, because how many times have I asked a person to fill out my boarding pass for me as we come in on an international flight yeah it's so interesting, isn't it like it's I?
Taylor Gosens:hate the boarding pass one.
Sarah Maxwell :You hate those too.
Taylor Gosens:Taylor, I'm not. I'm not as confident with dad yet as, like you know, like when it comes to those, I'm like I don't want to bother anyone. So I'm there, like trying to use my phone in a dark plane trying to fill it out, and I'm like I, I hope I probably, my writing probably looks like a child because I can barely see it gosh, that's, I guess.
Sarah Maxwell :I mean, like you said at the beginning, taylor, you're just living your own life. But as I hear you, I go man the confidences and the trust and, like you have all the same, you know the insecurities, the uncertainties, the doubts that every kid has and then yet having to overcome them to survive. It's actually incredible. And then I want to say one thing about Jared. You said something really interesting about being completely blind too. It made me really think that there's an analogy for parents here about there's so many parents that feel that they don't have the skills and tools to help their kids. You know you sort of run out of answers. So I really appreciate this conversation because you literally are saying that you're blind to how to help Taylor at times and and you mentioned para judo in particular so she chose this sport. That it's like a bit challenging, it's uniquely challenging. So why did you choose para judo when it wasn't initially your cup of tea, taylor?
Taylor Gosens:um. So I, I had moved to sydney to get away from my dad.
Taylor Gosens:No, I'm joking um you're awesome sydney, you know, to go to university and to be able to. You know, I did a lot of sports like wrestling and and mu Thai growing up and boxing, and I loved those sports, just because it was different. It wasn't just running or cycling or swimming, it was different. And I found a jiu-jitsu gym in Sydney and I had thought, oh, it would be really cool if I was like the first VI UFC fighter. That would be amazing because I did jiu-jitsu, I loved it and that was my first thought. Like I love Muay Thai, love jiu-jitsu, would love to do MMA. And then I did more of Muay Thai and I realized I'm not cut out for it. Okay, there's no way I'd be able to take on those punches, um, and so the more I got into it, you know I did I did a jiu-jitsu comps and I had this really lovely lady who came up to me, um, at my first jiu-jitsu comp and, um, she invited me to go to their gym, because it's always hard to find a martial art gym that is accessible or welcoming enough for someone that has disability, just because it's not normal, it's not the norm for them.
Taylor Gosens:So they invited me to go there and try their one out and it just happened to be a saturday and they're doing judo and, um, yeah, I gave it a go when that was my first judo lesson. So how long ago was that taylor? Mid 2020?
Sarah Maxwell :got it and we're 24 years again.
Jarred Gosens:Yeah and that happens. So that happens a lot in, not only just for, you know, for vision impaired, but for any athlete, any para athlete, even just going to gym, where they either they're they're unsure what to do, how to assist, or even if, for example, they can be inclusive in those situations. So and also the fact, for example, you know, taylor might have to go there with their guide dog and again they'll also be hesitant, or uh unsure with the guide dog as well yeah, 100, right, like there's so many blocks that we don't until you, you two, speak about them.
Sarah Maxwell :We don't, we take it for granted, like you you've been mentioning. Thank you for continuing to mention the challenges, because I remember, actually in paris, sitting at a cafe and there was two visually impaired people eating together and they, they had their dogs and and I don't forget how it all. Long story short, they, these reporters, came past and they wanted to do an interview and they didn't speak French. Sorry, they spoke only French, so I ended up translating this thing on TV and they were talking about the challenges in Paris during the Paralympics. It was really interesting, like how they their normal bus that they took wasn't available, and like all these services. So the irony of even being in Paris at the Paralympic Games and some of the major differences and challenges these two are facing.
Jarred Gosens:You think we we never hear that story and also something I'm jumping there as well, and just this is something I remember very vividly and again from a talent perspective if you go to dubai airport, right, for example, if you go to brisbane airport, they announce the flights you know 747, whatever, traveling on, cornice, airlines, whatever, whatever, right, boarding now through Gates, whatever Dubai. They don't announce anything. There's no announcement of any fights whatsoever. It's silent. So unless you can see the board, you have no idea whether your fight's on time, where it's at and what it's doing.
Taylor Gosens:And Dubai in general is massive. It's actually on time where it's at and what it's doing and Dubai in general is massive.
Sarah Maxwell :Yeah, yeah, god it, it's actually. Oh, it's like you think, oh, come on, like the this, why aren't we there yet? But I guess that's why people like you both and and navigating, like being so innovative in your willingness to take it on and travel internationally and tell your story. This is how we know more, so we can do better, because that's not good enough.
Jarred Gosens:I would hate Sarah to think how many times I've actually walked up the aisle on the corner of South Florida or any international plane and assumed the toilets were empty.
Sarah Maxwell :I don't know Got empty and they're not Got it. And they're not yeah. So I mean, with all these challenges, why Taylor para judo? How has it fueled this passion and vision for 2032 Games?
Taylor Gosens:So I'm going for 2028 as well, but I don't know. There's just the adrenaline behind it, the the mental and physical challenges behind it. It's just something that I just got hooked on and I love watching it. You know, I love doing it. The hardest part is that walkout is is walking out. You know you're lining up either in front or behind your opponent. That's the hard part, that's the mentally hard part. But then I remember, I remember watching the Olympics version of the judo and and watching, you know, katarina and Aoife and Nathan and being like, okay, they're on the mats now. This is the fun part. So it's all, it's the love for, it's the passion for it which is is really driving me for those, those two games awesome.
Sarah Maxwell :So, jared, you know, with all of the athletic endeavors that you've taken on for yourself, what has been the hardest part about supporting your daughter's sport dream.
Jarred Gosens:I think obviously not being right across the pathway of para judo and, for example, any other sport, athletics, swimming, cycling, all that sort of stuff.
Sarah Maxwell :Sorry, Dad you did it on purpose, you know I'm sorry.
Jarred Gosens:No, I have an awareness, I have an understanding of those. But in para judo the competition is very different to what I've experienced the way you navigate the sport, for example.
Jarred Gosens:Obviously the qualification process is all very different. So for me as a father, obviously, and also the investment, both financially, physically and emotionally, and for me as an athlete, I've always sort of loved that opportunity to represent my country and, as I've told Natalie that you know I don't need to see the Australian flag to have the belief in my country, or I don't need to see the Green and Gold tracksuit. It's that pure belief in the heart that takes me on that journey and I think for athletes like Taylor and any other Paralympic athlete, that's where their true journey really lies.
Sarah Maxwell :And on that, talk to us, Taylor, about the financial challenges that this sport in particular poses.
Taylor Gosens:It's hard. Judo in itself is already small, and then you go into the fact that para judo is small as well. So there's no international, there's no qualifying comps that are in Australia or ones that I can go and, you know, can get experience from. So I do have to go overseas and they're always so far away. So you have to think of cost of accommodation. You know the fees for the competition flights, the cost of geese. Geese cost so much and you need to make sure you have the right size. But when you're training in them, wear them slowly over time. You know they're shrinking so you're constantly need to gain new ones so that when you get to comp you have the right size yeah, right um, and then it comes down to, you know, day-to-day living.
Taylor Gosens:It's hard to hold a job. I mean, right before the Games I had to quit my job. I was a gym manager and I just couldn't dedicate my time to that job while I'm also training multiple times a day. I just couldn't do it. So now that I'm back and I don't have that craziness, I'm still training hard, but I've got to look for that right job that will be flexible enough that I can go to comps every two months, and that's difficult to find. So I'm it's yeah, it's just difficult in general, you know.
Sarah Maxwell :Jared. How have you done that? Is that why you know you're very entrepreneurial? Was that to be able to pay for sport, or are they unrelated for you?
Jarred Gosens:No, they're very related in the sense that from an entrepreneurial perspective it would be. You know the cafes. And even when I began the Paralympic Committee way back in the 90s it was about that belief in the Paralympic movements and opportunities of obviously creating support for athletes. And then also through all the other crazy, I suppose, adventures I've done is raising that, I suppose, that interest so you actually can go out there and talk about your journeys and obviously you earn an income from actually presenting or even providing, I suppose, training or educational sessions to people, for example Taylor when I spoke to a school a few weeks ago about her journey.
Jarred Gosens:So it's educating that youth that are coming through about the opportunities of sport. For me now, for example, with the swim tether that we used across the English Channel, we're using that as a tool not only to provide assistance for athletes or swimmers who are blind and have low vision, but for any person, physically disabled or not, who lacks confidence in going out there swimming. So the swim tether can be used, for example, by an international tourist who doesn't actually have the understanding of actually going out through the waves of Curragh on the Gold Coast or the Sunshine Coast, or a young kid who's come from Stanthorpe or Roma or Mount Isa, who's never experienced open water swimming before they're swimming in a pool, but never experienced waves that's cool.
Sarah Maxwell :There was a lot of talk during the Paralympics about the well. Is it the same tether when they're running the triathlon, for example?
Jarred Gosens:this is two different um, so the swim tethering in triathlon is I actually so I provide the swim tethers for australian athletes and some international athletes, so I suppose that I'm the official maker of swim tethers for both open water swimming as well as for the australian para triathlons okay um, so I.
Jarred Gosens:But right now what we're trying to do is obviously provide the opportunity for a whole range and also our big goal come 2032 is, as they have at the Olympic Games, the 5 and 10K open water swim, as I had in the same is to make sure that come 2032 that they also have the 5 and 10K for Paralympic Airfloats.
Sarah Maxwell :Got it. So there's more events Incredible. I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing that. And, taylor, like talk to me a little bit about because we're talking about the financial challenges Dad's you know gone into basically come up with all his own ideas to like try to make money and help people, and tell me a little bit about your experience with the Aussie Athlete Fund and your journey and experience and how that's impacted you so far um, it's been very useful.
Taylor Gosens:I will say that I did. Unfortunately, you know, I jumped in a bit later than everyone else, I think, um, but I, you know, I really want to continue with next time as well, because it it's helped me a lot with my fundraising. You know, I have AIF, and being educated on how to, I guess, put that together in the right way um, I had done one in the past and I never really knew how to do it and then finally having a guide on how to do it as well, and then the fact that you're teaching us how to market ourselves, you know how to get our name out there, how to draw awareness to you know the funds that we need and the goals that we have, has been really great. Just because when you're an athlete and you decide you want to be an elite athlete, you're kind of jumping in the deep end not knowing anything. You know we we haven't taken marketing courses or anything like so we don't know what we're doing, we're just doing what we see so being able to have a guide.
Sarah Maxwell :You're, you're, an astute student, but it doesn't mean that you studied that. Yeah, exactly, and so are you saying that before you did the Aussie Athlete Fund experience? How would you have marketed yourself before versus how you're doing it now?
Taylor Gosens:I wouldn't, I wouldn't have known, I probably wouldn't have done anything, and that's that's totally because I didn't know how to do it. I I learned artist management, um, in uni, and we learned marketing, but that's a different field. That's the music industry, that's not the sports industry.
Sarah Maxwell :It's very different yeah, that's a good. It's a good point. I mean, I think that you're right. In the face of not knowing, we, most people, do nothing so the fact that not everyone's going to take those courses at school. This is literally like sport education, because the funds are critical, Jared. How did you learn that background? Is that just Jared? How did you learn that background? Is that just innate in you? Did you learn that from someone?
Jarred Gosens:I think it was just a leap of faith from a very early days of high school and I think high school has changed very much over the decades in the sense that back in the days of high school we used to do all the various fundraising events in high schools the jog-a-thons, the spell-a-thons, the 40-hour famines, the read-a-thons and you were sort of educated back then where you learnt Even, for example, through Cubs and Scouts. You had your barber job where you go around and earn money to raise money for your local scout guides, and that's pretty much by the wayside these days. You know when was the last time you had a you know a girl guide or someone around coming around the house selling you you know brownie biscuits?
Sarah Maxwell :um, it's so true everybody, young people just know how to do gofundme really yeah social media right social media asks which are important methodologies as well. But you're right, there's a yeah, there's less experience.
Taylor Gosens:Some people love it, Some people don't like. I've talked to other athletes and some of them say, oh, I have to use social media, but I just don't enjoy it. I don't know how to do it properly.
Sarah Maxwell :And then you get others who are like I, absolutely love it, like I love I love creating content, which is great, but not everyone knows how to do it yeah, I think what I've noticed some differences are from what Jared's describing, which is sort of where Nat came up and that sort of pie drives and all this stuff too is that there's more trust. You're more in a community online. Um, yeah, it's different. People don't know you, so there's a different level of what you have to achieve in in what you write, like your copy, like what you say yeah, you have to pierce through. So I mean, this is why these conversations matter so much, so that you have and the fact that they they partner with a business was amazing.
Taylor Gosens:That is what I'd been looking for. You know, I'd reached out to businesses and they think para judo, she hasn't been to the Paralympics yet. Um, they think I don't want to say less than, but I think they underestimate you, so they don't think you're worth their time so being able to be partnered with someone who you know. They've read my story, they've been able to talk to me about it. Actually hearing me out and taking the time was amazing.
Sarah Maxwell :And to be able to get that help fundraising was really great, so cool, and even what you provided me so I could prepare for this conversation, see how everything kind of they're all like these, these pearls that all help you in the journey. Ok, so I'm just like dying to ask this last question, taylor. So and maybe dad at the end will let you chime in for your experience on this but, taylor, give us your vision for your sporting dreams. So do you see pictures in your mind of what it looks like or feels like, let's say to, to win a competition, like athletes do a lot of visualization? Um, yes, done that a lot in my life, which is like repeating images of scenarios. Yeah, that we want to experience. So we see them, we feel them. Yeah, how do you quote unquote see sporting outcomes in your mind?
Taylor Gosens:I would say that I do see the images of them. I don't think they're in the same way that other people see them. So you know, they're probably in the way that I see things in life, which is, you know, blurry and short sighted and whatnot.
Sarah Maxwell :So when you?
Taylor Gosens:visualize it's blurry. Yeah, that's how I see. See, what I see in in day to day, okay, that's so interesting is how I visualize things. So I like, for example, I'm not used to seeing the details of someone's face, right, okay. So when I visualize let's say I visualize the person who's going to give me the medal I'm not going to see the details of their face because I've never seen that. So I don't know how to visualize that in my own visualizations of, you know, my dreams can you tell if it's a female or male?
Taylor Gosens:sometimes and sometimes not. It always depends on what they're wearing how they have their hair, that kind of thing. But even that's still a bit blurry and you see color.
Sarah Maxwell :I see color. Yeah, oh, wow, that's so interesting.
Jarred Gosens:You can definitely see moths as well.
Sarah Maxwell :Say that again, Jared.
Jarred Gosens:You can definitely see moths.
Sarah Maxwell :I hate moths. Repeat that I can't hear what you're saying. You know, what moths are.
Taylor Gosens:M-O-T-H. What moths are like moth? Yes, yeah. What are you telling me about moths? What's happening? Tell me more. I have a fear of moths. Oh, it's so strange. But there was this one time. Like you know, they whip around fast. You can't see them quick enough, and I was. I was trying to kill one and it was coming at me through the spray and I screamed bloody murder.
Sarah Maxwell :Oh my God, that is so funny. That was my nightmare. My daughter with vision hates moths too. So I think I'm going to tell her this If Taylor can handle it which apparently you can't, I didn't, I did not, jared, that's so funny. So, jared, can you relate to what Taylor's describing in her vision? What's your visualizations like?
Jarred Gosens:I think for me, my visualization is more about the process of what I'm trying to do, for example, in the actual, and the reason being is because the person can see if we're swimming a particular distance in the ocean. They can see a tree or a building or one of, for example, the towers on the beach 500 metres up ahead, so they can aim for that and we could be swimming into a sweep where we're being pushed back slightly or perhaps going with the sweep, so they know exactly how they're traveling. For me, I could. They could say hey, listen, we've got 500 minutes to go, but yet, you know, sort of a certain number of minutes later, we're still going, going, going on. I'm thinking we should be finished by now. So for me it's simply about the process, um, and I have to think about where my body is in space Is that a feeling like a stroke, like you envision, a feeling of the stroke versus you don't see the stroke or you don't see the sides.
Jarred Gosens:It's how my body position is in relationship to my swim guide. So I need to sense and be aware. For example, when I swim in the pool I use a snorkel because I don't count my strokes, because if I even diverse a few centimeters that's going to change the number of strokes I take in the pool. So I listen to the water, so something like a chandler quadri center. I struggle because the depth of the pool is all the same depth all the way along. But if I go to yuronga swimming pool or Jindalee or whatever it may be, or Dunlop swimming pool, the shallowness and the deepness I can actually sense. I can hear it in the water. That's how I know where I am Got it.
Sarah Maxwell :It's a sensory that's really interesting. Even just the differences between Taylor saying that she's gripped already onto the athlete, whereas your experience of tethering like you're tethered but you're not touching there's quite interesting aspects to because it's so sensory, like how you move through the world. So it's quite interesting to hear both of your perspectives.
Jarred Gosens:And then if you relate it to the moth situation, which Taylor had moths and spiders in, where maybe there's creeping and crawling, it's when you're swimming and you swim through jellyfish and you're belting them away, whether it be like a tennis racket or on the English Channel, where you swing into a jellyfish which is two metres wide.
Sarah Maxwell :That's a massive centaur, that's way worse than a moth a two meter. Yeah, I was gonna say taylor, he's trying to win the competition between moth and jellyfish.
Taylor Gosens:Look this is why I offered to be one of the people in the canoes looking out for these things. They should have told me to be in that, because I would have got my revenge.
Sarah Maxwell :I would have and not yeah, but you know what he did. He made it really close to the games, but you could. You know he's sneaky like that. He thinks about these things. Now, you two, this has been such a great conversation. We have missed mom and Jordan. Sorry, jordan, um, but really it has been a treat talking with you and hearing your perspectives. I sense that having you two together talking like this is pretty special. So thank you for redefining the narrative of the price that you pay to be an athlete and realizing your dreams. And there's the financial athlete and realizing your dreams, and there's the financial. But even you both are bringing this other aspect of of what it actually takes to navigate the world internationally, all these challenges, and I just I feel very inspired by you both and the fact that you step up every day to live the lives that you do. So thanks for sharing.
Nat Cook:Thank you so much for having us thank you for joining us on another episode of the price you pay podcast.
Nat Cook:We hope we have inspired you with this insider's look of the challenges faced by aspiring athletes, the highs and lows of playing sport at such an elite level and what's possible when you are so devoted to your craft.
Nat Cook:It's our mission at Aussie Athlete Fund to create a sustainable funding model to support our athletes For both their financial well-being and the education of their own athlete economy their financial wellbeing and the education of their own athlete economy. To be part of the journey, please visit our website at aussieathletefundcom and choose how you would like to be involved, whether it's a corporate partnership, teaming up with an athlete in the million dollar challenge, or even hosting your own event to raise funds, or maybe even a game of golf. Choose your own adventure. If you know someone who would benefit from listening to this episode or this show, please send it to them now and before you go. Pressing the follow button on our show makes a massive difference. Rating us for Season 2 means more people get to hear these stories, which helps us have a much wider impact. Join us next time for more captivating stories of triumph and resilience on the next episode of season two of the Price you Pay.
