16. Medical Gaslighting, Misdiagnosis, and Not Taking Things Too Seriously with ADHD a conversation with Karrie Lemansky

This week I'm so excited to share this interview I did with Karrie Lemansky. Karrie is a self-described neurospicy friend and Chief Weirdo of Karrie Out Loud! She has always lived with ADHD (but was misdiagnosed with anxiety and depression until age 49). She helps out-of-the-box thinkers and ADHD women build better businesses so they can have better lives because of it and to be able to use their outside-of-the-box brains. She's also a life coach! 

We talk about so much in this episode, and it's all so good! Here are a few things we talk about:

• What it's like to work with a coach who has ADHD
• Misdiagnosis of ADHD in women
• Self-judgement and wondering what's wrong with me
• Being in the moment 
• Intuition and ADHD
• Connection and finding your people 

Connect with Karrie: 

• On her website: https://www.karrieoutloud.com/
• Listen to The ADHD Entrepreneu(Her) podcast
• Follow Karrie on IG @karrieoutloud
• Follow the Neurospicy Collective on IG @theneurospicycollective
• How Karrie can help you
• Example cube timer

I'd love to hear from you! You can connect with me in the following ways:

Instagram: @jennwatts.adhd
Email: jennifer@jenniferwatts.ca

I'd love to know if there's something you want to hear more about or if you want to let me know about your own experiences with ADHD and weight loss.

Transcript

 Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I am thrilled today. I have My friend, my mentor, the amazing, the incomparable Karrie Lemansky. Karrie is here today.  Well, I'll let her tell you a little bit about what she does. She's a business coach, an ADHD coach. Let me let her say her spiel about what it is that she does.

I feel like I won't do it justice, but Karrie, hi.  Hi, Jen.  How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm really good. And I am the chief weirdo at Karrie Out Loud, and I help out of the box thinkers and ADHD women build better businesses so they can have better lives because of it and to be able to use their outside of the box brains.

And I take a strength focused approach to helping women Build their businesses, like holistically, what I mean, holistically, because we hear that word all the time. It just means the whole person, the whole entity, because there's the nuts and bolts of the business, and then there's you and it's all one thing.

So I definitely take the approach of the person and business because they're equally as important. And I'm also. A life coach. So I have a twice over life coach certification and I love to help women who have ADHD. Yeah. So I'm your divergent friend.  It's so true. Anybody who's out there who is thinking about or is into entrepreneurship, which is a lot of us as ADHD people, we are so much more likely prone.

I don't know what the word is  to go into.  They're 100 percent more likely to go into business for ourselves or entrepreneurship. Yeah, but let me just say that, like, it makes a huge difference. Like, if you have ADHD and you want to do this kind of stuff and you're looking for some guidance, some coaching, some mentorship or something, get yourself a coach who has ADHD themselves and truly understands it because I can tell you from personal experience,  it is not going to work.

They are going to try to put you in a box that is not going to work and you're just going to feel, yeah, I don't even want to go there, but it's just, it's, it is such a wise move to work with somebody who truly understands you. And what's cool is that there's not a ton of us out there. There's not a lot of ADHD business coaches.

There's a lot of ADHD life coaches,  but business mentors, not as many just because It's something that so many women are figuring out that they have in the first place.  Because they'll lean into their anxiety or their depression or be told they have anxiety and depression or even maybe OCD or bipolar.

And the core problem, the root of it all is ADHD, but it takes time to figure out. And, and some people are like, well, you know, don't you spend too much time on the internet? And I'm like, the internet is how I found myself. And  my phone is where my friends live. My not my in person crew, of course, but. My phone is where my fellow ADHDers live, and that's how I figured it out.

I had to go proactively to my doctor and tell him that I figured out that there are things that don't fall under ADHD. They don't fall under depression, but yet I still check out all the boxes. And I was told, no, I just have anxiety and that we're just going to have to get that under control first. And I listened to the doctor.

Because I'm like, who knows better than me, my doctor, until I was like, no, I'm serious. Like, this is real. This is real. And that's the topic kind of we're going to be speaking to today is how gaslit we can feel sometimes. How gas that we can feel from the medical community, how gas that we can feel for people saying, uh, everybody's a little ADHD because that's the baloney, you know, this is a neurological condition that causes us to see the world through a different pair of glasses than everybody else.

It's like one of my good friends explained it best. Everyone has a car full of gas and we're on a unicycle going uphill both ways in the snow, you know, so. It takes one to know one, if you ever heard that, that sentence, it takes one to know one. And so having a business mentor, if you have ADHD, having a business mentor with ADHD is a hugely unique advantage.

Yeah. And if you don't have ADHD and you hire a mentor with ADHD, you also have a huge advantage because our brains are massive and our brains are full of creativity and you can bring a little bit of that weirdo unhinged energy in there and shape things.  We come up with ideas that just other people just wouldn't occur to them or something like that.

So yeah, I totally agree. Like, even if you don't have ADHD,  you're at an advantage with a coach or mentor that has ADHD. And that, yeah, that's exactly what I wanted to touch on with you today is some of the, the ways that it might show up for people that they aren't aware of, because a couple of things that you said, they're like, totally struck a chord with me.

I was the same, like, thank goodness for the people on the internet talking about it, because even I know you and I have talked about this before, but even though my son was diagnosed and. I had therapists, and I had been, you know, told that I had these mental health issues since I was like 13. It never occurred to anybody to even check if I had it, and I had all these symptoms, and Oh, so where would you begin if you were somebody who thought who maybe has been told it's just anxiety or, or something like that, or is kind of experiencing what we would define as gaslighting.

What would you like? What are some of the things that might indicate that they might have ADHD instead? Well, first things first, ADHD, as I said earlier, is a neurological condition, and anxiety and depression are mental health conditions, so that's a big differential. Now, ADHD can come with, or, I don't like the word create, but anxiety and depression can be symptoms of untreated, undiagnosed ADHD, right?

So, if you've been living your whole life through a different pair of glasses,  You are told you are too loud, you are told you are too big, you are told that you are too big mouth, you, you speak your mind too much, you, you maybe are a TMI person or a, an info dumper, meaning like you, you'll sit down with someone and just dump all the information that's in your head at them or essentially is if you're taking medication  and it may be helping the anxiety a bit or the depression a bit, but there are still things going on where you're like.

This isn't quite right. So here are a few of them for me. Since I was young, my bedroom has had no carpet, meaning the floor was just a litter of whatever. When I was a kid, it used to drive my mom crazy. But, that was because everywhere else in the house was like perfect and executed and I, that space was mine, so I just did whatever the heck I wanted, right?

I had a report card where a teacher literally said,  this is one of the things that I'm just like, yep, this is the kind of gaslighting. And I was only in second grade. This teacher said, if Karrie doesn't learn how to stop talking so much, she's never going to have any friends. Oh my gosh. And then I found that report card  when I was about 19  and read that.

And I was like, Oh, okay. So what happens along the way is you start to watch other people and see how they act or think that you have to try to figure out how to act based on external factors because you're being told from the outside world. Sit still in a classroom for seven hours with other kids and read and censor and, and stay quiet, you know, like all of the things that kind of go against the way that our brains work.

And so with all of that, I think I read a top. I don't know how the heck they would figure this out. I never know how they figure out statistics, but this one struck me not because of the statistic, but just the reality of it. It said like ADHD years get about 46, 000. More comments about their behavior, you know, from like when they're young to 18  than anyone else, because we may be.

Talk a little loudly. We maybe bounce our leg too much and it annoys the person next to us. So like, I actually had a co worker tell me I typed too loud. I can't make it up. You typed so loud. I'm like, I didn't even know that was a thing. I didn't know you could type too loud. Right? So  you're constantly getting these things told to you.

And so you're continuing to shrink. You continue to get smaller. You continue to try to Figure out what normal is, which isn't a thing, what is normal, if you can tell me what normal is,  it's still an opinion, right? Yeah, exactly.  But there are other things that go with it. So having trouble executing things in your house, thinking that you're a bad mom because you can't seem to do it the way every other mom does it, whatever that means. 

We see other people not struggling with certain things and we struggle with it. And so the automatic response is, what's wrong with me? And since women and girls, we manifest ADHD mostly internally. So we either have the inattentive type or combined type. And if you have the hyperactive type, usually the hyperactivity is in your head, it's in your brain.

So, if you look at the history of ADHD diagnosis, it was at first based on little boys who were bouncing off the walls and they thought you could grow out of it. Then, they realized, no, boys don't grow out of it, they take it into  adulthood, but they learn how to manage it, right? Then, all of a sudden, it was like, oh, girls may have this, oh, women may have this. 

And all of a sudden, there was this like Big smattering of us, a massive crossover in Generation Gen X, which is me and Millennials, which I believe is you. And we were lost in the shuffle. They didn't realize that ADHD was the issue because when it's boys, We've got to figure out what it is when it's girls, it's a mental health condition. 

That's immediately where they go. Yeah. And there's a neurological, it's a neurological condition and it's in the DSM 5. I'm in the U. S., you're in Canada. In the U. S., they use this book called the DSM 5 and it's to help with diagnosis and help with what medications to give someone. And ADHD is in there except it's a neurological disorder.

So, There's just a lot of work that needs to be done to make this right. And so on top of being a business mentor, I'm an advocate and I talk about ADHD and the symptoms and the medications I take and what the response has been for me and what that all looks like. I'm not here to give medical advice.

I'm here to share the life experience. And if you see yourself in that, it's maybe time to get an assessment. And the reason why I pressed when it comes to assessments is you're ruling. In ADHD, we talked about this though, Jen, and we're ruling out other problems. Did you have a traumatic brain injury at some point?

Do you have learning disabilities or learning conditions, perhaps? Do you have, you know, there's other things that it could be. So when you do the assessment, it's to rule in ADHD and rule out other things. And in my opinion, I think we should be seen by a neurologist first. And then once we are positive for ADHD, then be sent into the psychiatric arena to figure out what additional things come with our ADHD.

And instead, we're sent to psychiatrists to diagnose it. So that's kind of where we are now. And the U. S. has no adult definition for ADHD. It's all done based on the research from kids in the DSM 5. I don't think it's all from children, but Majority of the research is not about grown women. Yeah, so it's just wild.

And like, even as you were saying, like, when you brought up the whole, like, internalized thing, that's very much how it was for me, because I don't think from the outside anybody would have thought that I had that, except that my reports cards would say, like, She, I forget what the word is, but it was like, it was like, I can't follow through on things, even though they knew I knew things.

It was just like, I wasn't committed. I wasn't committed or something like that. But I like, really internalized it. And that was so much of why I had this like. Perpetual painful anxiety as a little girl, like for, and it seemed like it was for no reason, but it was just because you just feel like there's something wrong with you.

Why aren't I like the other people? Why do I feel like I just can't quite connect with people and then. Yeah, that what you said to about motherhood. Oh, my gosh, that was the, like, such a hard time for me. And when it's supposed to be such a great, I mean, motherhood is hard,  but just that whole sense of, like, why does everybody else understand this?

And I just can't get it. I just don't get it. And what is wrong with me? And then even to the point where you start thinking, like, Maybe I'm not, like, qualified to be a mom.  It's awful.  And, like, I just feel for all these women who experience this, and then they're told, like, oh, it's just mom brain. Oh, it's just, yeah, it's just anxiety.

Here's some, like, anxiety medication or whatever. Or even, can't even, like, so not taken seriously. And then there's wait lists and, oh, there's so many things to contend with. Yep. Did you hear my eyes rolling through all of that?  Just so the women listening know, in case you're thinking you might have ADHD, but you're not sure.

First thing you're going to do is take a look online  and go to a site like attitudemag. com. There are all kinds of articles on there, and there's a little, like, symptom checker. I guess that would be the way to call it. And I remember reading the symptom checker and checking every single box. It was insane.

It was so wild. And then, after, you know, checking every single box to be gaslit and told that it's not that and That it's mental health. You know, I don't know. It's just the whole thing along the way feels so much harder than it should. So that's why I really want to talk about it. But the three times that women are most commonly diagnosed.

Well, first, let me give you this fun stat, which I've seen over and over again. Women's average age of diagnosis is around 37 and males it's around 7. That's when my son was diagnosed, 7. There's a huge disparity. The first time a woman may consider she has ADHD or consider something else is going on. is when she has her first child, just like you were saying, why don't I get it?

What's wrong with me? What's going on? Well, what's going on is you've figured out all of these coping mechanisms your whole life to kind of keep some sort of structure together, like almost like you're using like band aids all over everything and then that baby comes out and the band aids fly out and everything just.

Not only do you have a brand new human being, your ADHD just got turned up to an 11 because of all the hormones that are related with ADHD, like really flaring up, like wildly. The second time is when your own child gets diagnosed. Because they'll be like, what do you mean  your family has ADHD?  And the mom will just kind of sit there blankly, and then the doctor's like, it's you.

Us? Maybe it's you. And then the third time is perimenopause menopause time, because that's when our estrogen starts to drop. And so, a common through line is rage. Like, why am I so enraged? Why am I so angry? Why can't I contend with this anger? I even used to say my shadow aspect is rage. What I came to find out is my rage was because there was something going on and I couldn't put my finger on it.

So I hated parts of myself. And I was so frustrated because I didn't like pieces of me because I couldn't understand them. The moment I had the understanding, that final puzzle piece clicked and I was like, Oh, I love me so much because like, you know what? I couldn't help so much that that was my fault.

I'm just my fault. I know you guys can't see me, but my jaw just like dropped when Kerry was explaining that because I went through that. So this was before I was diagnosed. It was like, I don't know, a few years before, and I had a therapist and I kept telling her, I feel. So angry. It's like I, I didn't even know what to do with that feeling because I've never been an angry person.

Like, anybody that knows me would never define me that way. But I was like, Oh, like all the time. And then you feel I felt. So like upset with myself for feeling this way because I was like, I'm not this kind of person. I don't know how to contend with this feeling. And then then what's wrong with me that I'm feeling this way.

And it's like this big cycle of like, emotions and like self judgment and it's debilitating  because you're like. What's wrong? I have a feeling, again, I am not a doctor, I don't play one on TV, but what I will say is that I think that at times, postpartum for women, that fourth trimester, first of all, you're healing a wound from the inside out.

So you have this giant wound in your body that's healing. And then they're like, oh, and by the way, here's a little human being, and there's no instructional manual, so sorry, figure that out. And.  Maybe you feel disconnected, maybe you don't bond as quickly, maybe you feel postpartum depression, right? Well, is it postpartum depression? 

Is it ADHD raging because you aren't treated? I know somebody who didn't take medication for all three of her children, just did a live with her. And she was saying that, you know, for her three kids, she didn't have her meds. And was able to finally get back on to them after she had her kids, and it was just like night and day, and she said that there was a doctor who, uh, another friend of hers had who, while she was pregnant, she was taking ADHD meds, because there's more than just stimulants also, so I don't know if they were taking a stimulant medication or a non stimulant, but there are different types of drugs for ADHD.

Stimulants are the most effective, but there are other meds that you can use, but she's like, been diagnosed since she was like 16, so she wasn't later in life. It was a really interesting discussion because you and I are both later in life diagnosed and she's been diagnosed since she was younger. She's like, I just want to hug you so bad.

Like,  we want to hug us. We want to hug each other so bad, like we get it but having ADHD I think would make postpartum  a lot louder, and we can't figure out why it's so loud to us and everybody just seems to be. Coddling their little bundle of joy and we're just like, I'm so angry and have no idea why because you have this beautiful little baby and you're like, why am I mad?

I'm not mad. It's a baby. Why am I mad? Right? So I wonder how much of that you experienced for yourself. Probably too. Yeah. And especially like The way that society kind of operates now, it's we're so like compartmentalized as families, right? And so in a like, heteronormal, I don't know what the word is family.

It's like, dad's gone to work and mom's home with the kids. And then you're just doing everything yourself. Like, it's not like, very community oriented. And so being alone. And with all those responsibilities, plus, like, you're just not.  It's like, it's just not built to be capable to do that. It's like, no wonder women suffer so badly and diagnosed in that situation. 

But think about this in tribal communities. And I'm not talking about like any specific tribe or, or think back perhaps when, when people are all in a group. Raising children was communal,  very communal. And then for any woman, which I know several, who had their baby around pandemic time.  Those moms, I cannot imagine what that had to be like because normally speaking, most women will have some sort of tribe around them.

A parent of theirs, a bunch of their friends, you know, people who come to help. I had a friend who came for the first seven days of my son's life. So that we can adjust to someone I've known since I was really young. That was massively helpful. Right? So we are always talking about self care, but communal care is just as important.

And so when we're having these kids and. We also feel isolated, that too would add to those feelings, because one, you're alone and you're isolated and you're not seeing people, and two, you now have to take care of an entire human that if you set that human down in the middle of the living room and didn't do anything, that child could not live on its own.

No. So, it's already an identity shaker, just already in and of itself. Yeah, and then you have to try to figure out how to nurse if you choose that mm hmm  You know, I mean, there's all these pieces that come with it that are not as communal and you in the u. s I know for us, but I don't know about in Canada if people are Come in community when when women of their their women friends have babies.

Yeah. I mean, I I guess it's it's probably very similar It just depends on where you are and even the culture that you're a part of like, yeah It's just it's just different and it's I don't know kind of makes me sad  But when you talk about the community aspect of things that sort of brings a couple things to mind so that is for me like  You know, going back to talking about the internet, like just seeing other women who have experienced the same thing as me, maybe not exactly the same or in the exact same stage of life, or, you know, have completely different lives than me, but I can see myself in them was hugely helpful for me.

And that's a lot of why I even talk about the things that I talk about, because for me, like, recognizing that connection with my struggles with weight with the way that ADHD was presenting in me. Talking about that and seeing if other people have experienced that too and making that connection with people was massive.

But I know you too have started your collective. Tell us about that because I think I just love this idea of connection because this is, this is so huge and important for us. Well, you know, I have enough confidence, but not ego, so this is like more of a confidence statement, but I want to have the biggest community of ADHD women on Instagram.

That's my goal. Even if people listening have their own communities, because I'm not doing anything there, but literally education and humor.  It's like, that is a passion project.  My business is my business, obviously, my Carry Out Loud account, but the Neuro Spicy Collective is for anybody who has their own community and they want their people.

Because the whole thing is, when you start finding the ADHD community, With the half full glass, because there are different ways of looking at ADHD. Some people will lean into the fact that it's very debilitating, and it is,  it can be. But there are others who look at it like, I'm here to do everything I can to manage it.

And I said to one of my clients yesterday, if you're sitting in your own poop,  and turning and looking around and asking everyone else what smells, Yeah. That's not about the smell. 

Okay. So I don't think that's on. Most of the people that I'm around, that's not on their bucket list, right? And  they want to, you know, we want to be around people who are like,  people may not like this. I'm a glass half full person. I know that what I have is technically considered a disability. American Disabilities Act, it's covered under there because sometimes in the workplace, we will need accommodations because of noise or stimulation or light or other things, especially since Anxiety, depression, and autism are the most common comorbidities, right?

And autism can be like on the lower end, but it can also be about overstimulation, right? So these are things that can come with it. So they may need accommodations at work. And that's why I'm like, I think every woman with ADHD should just run her own business.  That's because I mean,  and if somebody even hints at it, I'm like, do it, you know,  that's what I mean.

But do it with help because like, that's another thing is like, we, that's another way we need community, right? Because just trying to do that, especially going from like, if you worked in corporate or some other job and you've had this. Oh yeah. And somebody telling you what to do, which you hate anyways, but to go from that to like the complete open freedom of doing it yourself.

A lot of the time, I know this was my experience being like, what do I actually do? And then you get overwhelmed and paralyzed.  Yeah, well, mentorship for me is no one size fits all. And my goal really is to give like guardrails and accountability. So not let you kind of veer off, you know, we definitely will explore things that you're seeing kind of like on the side as in.

Like your body and heart are talking to you, but I won't let you go like full on squirrel mode. I'll be like Come on, let's wrinkle the squirrels get him back over here. Like let's focus on this That's why it starts with your accountability items from last week and we end with what do you want me to hold you accountable to this week because Accountability, we won't let other people down.

No We will not let someone else down. We'll let ourselves down, but we won't let other people down. So It's important to have somebody who can They don't have to be there every single minute of the day, but they can be there to support you along the way. I am simply further down the road than my clients. 

And I know what I needed and I know what it was like when I got my diagnosis and I know what some of that looks like.  So  sometimes what we need in community is just be heard  and don't tell me  how to do things or how to fix it. I just want to talk about it. I need you to tell me what to do, right? And there's so few spaces in life that we get that.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It is invaluable. It's the same with what I do. And I really believe for people with ADHD, like in so many other realms, whether, whether it comes to like, you're dealing with your finances or dealing with, you know, clutter in your home or trying to find a way to get organized there. Like so many aspects of your life.

Like, you don't need somebody to tell you what to do. You need to do it in the right way for you. But having somebody Who can listen to you, just like you said, who can listen to you, who understands, who has been there and is not that far ahead of you.  To me, it's like, it's amazing. I think it's so great. 

And every client I've had, every last one at some point in our work together says hiring a coach with ADHD was the best thing I could have done.  Because even though I don't know your exact flavors and spices, I know your overall spiciness. I know where it comes from. I know where the rejection sensitivity comes from.

I know, you know, so when we're doing sales, for example, and you have the rejection sensitivity dysphoria, you got to work on some of that internally. So that as you're building a business, you don't take it personally, right? Cause it's not personal, but we will personalize something that  we will make up things to be mad about.

Okay, let's be real.  How does it just answer my three paragraph dissertation with just a K on the text message? They must hate me. Oh, yes. Everything comes back to, they must hate me.  But the other thing I wanted to point out, Jen, is that when we think it's just us, when we think something is just us and we find out because we're, we're a self centered human beings and that's not a bad thing.

It's that we are looking at life through our lenses and how we grew up and everything. So we see life in our own perspective. And one of the most common things is nobody else has ever felt this way in the whole entirety Of life, and that's a load of garbage,  right? That's, that's crap. But we don't always know it, because if we don't know what's going on with something like this neurological condition,  and we're being gaslit, and we're being told all these negative things about ourselves, especially as we grow up, especially if we were told those things throughout our teen years and early 20s, our self esteem, by the time we get to our age, is in the dumpster. 

Is a dumpster fire! Uh huh. It's up to you to put it out. Like I, seriously, right? How do you put it out? You go and push for assessment, then you choose if you want to take medication or not. And you choose things that work for your brain, not against it in your home and how you do things. You create accommodations that work for your brain.

And it's not perfect. A lot of people will be like, you don't look ADHD. I don't know what it looks like, but I guess there's, you know, people are like, you don't look that way. There's a myth that smart people don't have ADHD. That's a bunch of malarkey because I know some of the smartest women I've known have it. 

People who run businesses successfully, but do you think that they send their own emails?  Do you think Beyonce types out an email to her corporation? She doesn't have ADHD, but that's an example. Mm hmm. She runs her empire, Taylor Swift, all of them. They run their empire. Do you think that they are doing their own emails?

Don't it? No! Their assistants are, or their manager, or whatever. Everybody has help. Yeah, we look at the one person and go, look at how they can do it all when they have like four contractors that help them with different aspects of their business  and getting help in aspects of your life. Like if you're in the position to have somebody help you with cleaning from time to time to do the deep clean stuff, because it's just like, it is not your jam. 

If you're capable of doing that, do it. There's no shame in that. There's so much shame wrapped around a neurological condition. There's not shame wrapped around, let's say you have a heart murmur or you have diabetes. Wouldn't you take the route of whatever helps you treat those medical conditions?  This is the same. 

You're not making accommodations in your home and doing these things because there's something wrong with you. You have a medical condition. And you've done mental Health things combined with it. So you're going to be doing things a little bit differently than other people. Okay.  And we naturally do that to ourselves too, where we think, because we're so used to making these accommodations for ourselves and coping mechanisms and trying to like, be on the same level as what we perceive other people to be on, that we run ourselves ragged.

Right. But our expectations are also like. It's so crazy. We have to work so hard just to get up to the, what, yeah, like I said, like what we think the level is of everybody else. And yet somehow we still even almost have this expectation that we're supposed to be above that. And then we can never meet it.

And then every day it's like you go to bed and you're like, well, I'm, I'm useless. I didn't accomplish anything, but it's good for you. Right. You have high expectations of yourself and others. That comes with ADHD. Yeah. High expectations of yourself and others. But I'm going to bet you that if anybody listening to this right now  goes into their phone and goes back to the first of the month and starts looking through their camera roll, don't tell me you haven't done anything.

Yeah. Go take a look at the last month. Oh, I forgot I did that. Oh, I forgot. Yeah. What happens to women with ADHD is like We do it. We get an accomplishment. We're like, yes. And we move on and forget that it ever happened. Oh, yeah. You know, someone will be like, yeah, I got my master's. I'll be like, what?  Why didn't you tell me that before?

Oh, I don't know. Yeah, they're too busy telling me that they're dyslexic and have a difficult time writing.  Yet got a master's. Do you know what that takes? What amount of resilience and stick to itiveness and You know, believing that everything is figureoutable, you know how much of all of those things that takes, right?

But we just underplay this greatness, and I'm not saying that again as an ego thing, I'm saying there are things about us that are spectacular, that other people cannot tap into. Yes, it's so true. And like, I keep thinking about when you said like, not talking about any of this stuff and we just assume like there's something wrong with us.

Oh, man, it's the biggest thing on my heart all the time that I just like, I want to, especially for women, like, for everybody, but especially for women. I want to say there's nothing wrong with you, but we, we don't talk about these things. That's why the community is so great because then you can see you're not alone.

And like, honestly, the funny stuff like helps so much because like, you can make light of it, but there are people who don't like that. I've seen over and over again. I like a post that's like. ADHD isn't funny and memes about it aren't funny and I'm like, Oh, no, I need the humor to go right now. Exactly.

It's like, yeah. Laughter. Here are two things. I actually had somebody asked me, what do you do as a, like to help with your longevity instead of being post active being proactive? Right. And I, and I said a few things like, you know, sleep and exercise and getting water. And then I said, And community and laughter, because I've watched so many things about how do we age better?

How do we live longer? How do we keep our brains sharper? And two of the elements, I watched this amazing documentary and there were two things that happened in every single solitary space where they found these people who would live so long. And it was community. Yeah.  And  laughter and fun.  Yeah, like that's after it's medicine play like  I love it.

Yeah, yeah,  yeah, yeah, it's hard for us to be in the moment, which is why kids and animals are great for us. Oh, yeah, because we have to be in the moment with them because if we're not, they'll pull us right into it. Anyway. Yeah. Think of kids, think of kids. They don't care. They're like, sit down.  Just do what I'm wanting to do.

So, Transcribed by https: otter. ai And you're just like, I can't get down there. My knees will break, you know,  find a way to get down there.  That is so true. Like my daughter, my youngest, who's seven is always like that.  She wants to play and she'll just like, she gets to the point where she won't even ask.

She'll just like put the whatever costume. I don't know.  Props that I need for whatever we're going to play, she'll just give it to me and I'll be like, in my head, I'm like, Oh my God, I can't do this right now. I'm too busy. I've got to do this. I've got to do that. And of course, as soon as I like, kind of just give up and just play with her.

I feel a million times better, even though she's always getting mad at me that I do it wrong. But like, you just play and that kind of stuff. You just  feel so much better from doing that. And like, I would never think to choose to do that on my own. Cause I always think like, Oh, I gotta be doing stuff. You know, like, busy, busy.

Right. That's why when I sit in this chair to work, I have two tools. I have this, which are these, I have a new one coming out. I'm so excited. These are  These time blockers are so good because they like force you to stop in your hyper focus because we get so hyper focused And my dog, he will come up behind me and start booping my calf if he needs out and if I'm not listening He'll grab on to my clothing and start pulling on it  So if you don't want something that's gonna take you out if you want something that's gonna take you out of the moment  I mean, out of the future rumen, you know, the future, which is fear behind you is rumination.

If you want someone to bring you into right now, besides meditation, the guided meditations, which are fantastic as you  practice them, they get easier. Are getting in a room with children and dogs last weekend. I was with both. Oh my gosh. I'm like, this is too much fun. I can't handle it.  And I meant that literally.

I'm like, I don't know what to do with like this much fun. That's just because fun is not something that we allow ourselves fun and so true. Time and taking those moments where it's like, I'm too busy. It's like, but are we, yeah, I need that. Yeah. I need that stuff. I need the funny stuff. And  I can't believe I'm still can't believe people are like, no, it's, it's not funny.

Come on. Like, give me the fact that you're overwhelmed and under stimulated. That's hysterical. Yeah.  I know and like so many people can probably like see themselves and I know I would always see these memes and stuff before I was diagnosed and I would kind of be like isn't everybody like that isn't that what everybody and then it turns out oh actually no  not everybody. 

I think in the U. S. it's something like, I have to look up the percentage, so this is probably wrong, but it's like 3 or 4 percent. Yeah, everything I've seen says 3 to 5 percent. Yeah. Yeah. So if we think everybody's a little ADHD, no, you know why? Because you want to know how somebody's ADHD? Put them in a room with a bunch of ADHDers.

If they all get along, that person for sure has some sort of divergence. If they're looking at all those people like, these are freaking weirdos. Yeah, probably don't have it. No, not everybody's thoughts are racing. I saw the best reel. It was a husband and wife. And the wife is like, what do you mean? Your brain isn't always racing like your leg down and just get to go to bed.

And he's like, no, it's never like that. And she's like, you mean you're laying down and like, it's just quiet. And he's like, yeah, he can't understand that.  And she's like, he's like, he's like, you know, he was joking something like, what's wrong with you? And she goes, maybe it's not what's wrong. She's like, maybe it's not me.

That's something's wrong with maybe it's you. And I was like, Oh,  burn, do you need some ice for that burn?  Yes you do, but it was basically saying what if we're right and you're wrong?  What if corporate America is not the right way for everybody? What if being in a specific type of school is not for everybody's brains?

Yeah, it isn't. It isn't. It is not. No, I mean, like, my kid's pediatrician even said that, like, the school systems are not built for children like yours. But that, like,  not to go off on another tangent, but talking about that is like, quote, unquote, normal, which I know you and I talked about that earlier this week, but what's everybody else's normal and then neurodivergent people are not normal.

That perspective to me is like, It's wrong, but I heard somebody talking about it, um, from the perspective of way back in, like, the hunter gatherer days. Yeah, I heard that. Yeah, like, that, like, people who are neurodivergent, like, just had a completely different role in a society. So it's not that we're different.

We're different, but we're not, like, wrong and right. The world needs people that think like us. Right? Yes. And while a lot of people are walking away from a situation, we're the ones walking towards it. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we're so good in like a crisis. I was just gonna say crisis management. If there's a crisis  And you got an ADHD around, you got me, okay, they're going to be like, okay, first they're going to freak out like, Oh my God, what's happening?

And then the second thing that's going to immediately happen is jump in. Yeah. We're going to be like, what can I do? How can I help? I don't know that, you know, like we want to help with that crisis management because it's what we are designed. Like we live by design. If we lived by design and not default, you have no clue what you're capable of.

It's like, it's insane. It's insane. And what's funny is.  Going back to that hunter gatherer, part of the reason why, again, this is my opinion, I don't know if anybody else has this opinion or not, but I'm going to share my opinion because that's what I do. I lead from the front, not from the behind, right?

When we were back in the hunter gatherer days, the other thing was, if your tribe kicked you out, if your group kicked you out as a communal, a grouping of people.  You would die.  Okay, like our bodies are like constantly in this, here comes the tiger. Yeah. Right? And you have all your people around you, that tiger is not so bad.

If you've been left alone by your people and it's just you and that tiger, guess what's for dinner?  You know, you are. Yeah. So somewhere buried in us, I really believe is that We try so hard to fit in because being ousted means  Literal death back in those days. Yeah. Yeah now it means cortisol levels that are so extreme that how does anyone function when they're constantly in that feeling like Something's running, chasing behind them constantly in that heartbeat, constantly in that fight or flight.

I mean, that's not healthy. It causes a lot of health issues. But some fight or flight is normal. It's natural. We need it. It's like if you're walking down a dark alley and you hear some footsteps, having that adrenaline cortisol kick in is very important. Unfortunately, a lot of us are just in the grocery store grabbing some Cheerios. 

We're like,  and then it's like all of a sudden you feel like a a, a evil clown is coming at you. Yeah. For no reason at all. Yeah. Or maybe somebody looked at us weird and we're like, oh my God, what did I do?  Yeah. My favorite little fun trick is picking up micro expressions.  I'm like  a queen of picking up micros.

So my husband will be doing something and I'll be like, how, I'm like, how's it going? He'll be like, fine. Now what he's saying is fine, but what his face is telling me is this, like a little bit of a, a, like a weird movement in his eye or a little twitch on his, you know, core nervous mouth. What's that?

What's that? What's that? Yeah. And he'd just be like, what? Like,  what's wrong with you woman?  But it's like those micro expressions. So we also are so good at reading other people in some ways. We're naturally intuitive. We tend to have a lot of amazing gut instinct that we ignore until we finally figure out like it actually works and it's true because we can hyper focus sometimes. 

And then other times, we can't keep anything out, we're receiving all of the information at one time.  I think that has parts to do with our intuition too. Maybe people are gonna think I'm a woo woo crazy person, but I don't care, I believe it. It's true. We just read people in a very different way.  I mean, have you ever had friends tell you, Oh my gosh, Jen. 

So and so is so amazing, like four or five people would be like, so and so is so amazing and you meet them and you're like, like, all of a sudden you're like, what are they talking about? There's something really off about this person, you know, like three years later, they're in the newspaper for  serial killer. 

I'm just kidding. That's not real. But I think that's something that like I've really learned to trust as I As I age, because before I can think of times like that when everybody thinks, you know, like, oh, this is the best thing ever. This is the best person ever. And I'm like, I just can't connect with this person, or I can't, I just don't see it the same way.

And before, then that would be like another vote in the column of there's something wrong with me. But now I'm like, no, you know what, there's something that like, I can trust my own instincts about something and that's okay. I can just like. You know, it's all right if I, you know, don't, don't, don't mesh with somebody.

That's fine. I really rely on that now. Whereas before I thought that was like just something negative about me. Right, right. I even have like a head tilt that comes with it. Right. Like someone will be like, be like, Oh, this person, John, they're so great. And like four or five people say, and then I'll meet John and I'll just be like. 

It's just like that little head tilt, like a, like a dog watching TV in a commercial. That's me. I'll just, I will tilt my head like, Hmm, yeah. I,  okay. I'm so glad you all like this person. So like, I have had that experience a handful of times. Mm-Hmm. . And usually later down the road I'll hear like, something not so pleasant about Mm-Hmm.

And I'll be like, oh  yeah, there was that. Do, do instincts, you know? Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Our instincts are so, so good. Another thing that I think of, like, with that whole, like, we're talking about crisis, being good in a crisis,  like, I think back to, like, even the pandemic and being like, all right, you know, this is the, it is what it is.

And I felt like I was pretty calm, cool and collected. And like, I mean, circumstances figured out what to do. But what I thought, when I think about why I managed. Okay, is because  I don't know about you, but I spent so much time  going through these like fake scenarios in my head of like  If this happened, what would I do?

If this ever happened, what would I do? Oh, if I talk to this person, what would I say? And all this, I, you spend so much time in your imagination of these things. And then it's like, when it happens, you're like, well, I've already dealt with this before. So I to  do.  Well, what the funniest thing I heard was from somebody who has anxiety was the fact  that it's like, Now the regular people understand what we feel. 

They're like, yeah baby, we've been prepping for this our whole lives. And you want us to just stay home and don't do anything?  Okay.  We're like, we're designed  for being at home and figuring out out of the box situations. Like, the pandemic really Was hardcore in a lot of ways for a lot of people, but it also was a clarity giver to a lot of people.

Yeah. Yeah, like, I wonder if there's some connection there, too, with, like, people seeing, like, their, I don't know if it's, like, because we're home and they're paying attention to different things, or if it's, like, their symptoms were maybe heightened, but it seems like there were a lot of people who recognized that they have ADHD in that time frame.

Like, what do you think that was all about? I think that more time in front of screens, even though it's like not the best answer, and other women talking about it more freely,  I think those are some things I could, I speak about it freely. I spoke about when I thought it was solely anxiety and depression.

I still talked about that out loud. Yeah, brand is cherry out loud. I made that brand name for my diagnosis because my whole goal is to always say the things out loud that other people won't say and My mentors, I have two, Allie, the one who I actually is my mentor, and then Pink, she's my mentor too. She doesn't know it, but that's okay.

Because often times, they'll be like, something I'll be like, should I post this, or should I say this? And I'm like, well, what would Pink do? I need a shirt, WWPD. Yes!  Because I would just think like, she would just frickin roll her eyes and do it. Not that I know her or will ever know her, but just her energy.

Does she care? Yes. Does she care about the things people say and all the crap? Yes. I've seen her in interviews. Yes. She was, however, she still lives herself. She still lives her life.  It's like, none of that matters. And I think that once women figure out they have ADHD and start to figure out how to truly manage it.

And get to, it's like you have 2, 200 vision and somebody handed you the glasses that you've been needing your whole life and you're like, Whoa,  it takes time to adjust. Yes. Very true. Especially since some, some people are very attached to a title, like  an anxious person with anxiety. Yeah. I have a friend who this anxiety was at the core the whole time in her mind and her doctors, but she actually had ADHD. 

I remember thinking, wait, I'm an anxious person. I don't have ADHD. I mean, just that mind shift alone was like, Whoa, it took me, I was like, went inside like three or four months and really didn't tell or talk to many people like about it. Only like the people super close to me because I didn't know what I was feeling.

What I was feeling was every emotion all at one time, so much so that I didn't know what anything felt like for a while. I can so relate to that. Unfortunately, but fortunately, but see, this is just a perfect example of that. We need to talk about these things so that we know this is common with people like us, I guess.

Right. And even though it's, it's, you know, what is it? However, many percentage of the world that it is. And it's not to try to be like us versus them. I never want to be like, Oh, that neuro typical coach, you know, . I do talk about using a neurodivergent coach as opposed to a neurotypical coach if you have a HD or other neurodivergence, just because we understand each other. 

But my mentor, she doesn't have a DHD. Hmm. That's interesting. But she  and I are a lot alike because of how we grew up. Because of like, like circumstances in our life. Mm-Hmm. . I don't know. Maybe she has ADHD. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't know what I didn't know. But whatever we do, we're harnessing it  and using it for the greater good.

And that's really,  for me, why I created the Marrero Spicy Collective. Mm hmm. You know, like, that's why. And I have had women come in there. I mean, the account is small right now, it's like 150 people, which is phenomenal. I'm so excited because they're all actual humans, right? Imagine being in a room with 150 people, a lot of people. 

But I have had women because I, you know, and I know I have this very special secret thing that I do that I only teach to my paying clients that helps create conversations and having people say things like, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad I finally found your account. You're exactly what I've been needing.

You're exactly what I've been looking for. You know, like people who are just barely getting diagnosed and need an education, or their kids were just diagnosed and they need to know more resources. You know, it's like, I'm creating a resource. I'm creating a guide of things that I wish I would have known.

At first it was a course. And I was like, you know what? I need to condense this. I make this into a guide, not just a one page thing, but like an  ebook of what it looked like before, what type of things to look for, how to get assessed, what different resources you can use besides your medical insurance to get assessed, is it just your own doctor?

What are some of the feelings that come with it? All those type of things. I want to put that together because what I joked is that I didn't have a manual or a handbook when I was diagnosed. So I'm like, yeah, okay, I'll just make one then.  You should, because like, yeah, it's in the process right now. Okay, good.

Cause I was going to say, where do people get that? Because I know they're going to want it.  Oh, it'll, it'll, it'll be happening. It's going to be, it's going to be for free in exchange for an email address, of course, just because. And also, I don't write boring, super, like, salesy emails either. I just write emails about, like, life and contending with it.

And something maybe I learned that day from a client or something that I learned that day from a friend. Or, you know, just talking about life and experiences. And every once in a while, I'll talk about things that are going on in my business world. But for the most part, it's, like, just really to connect in a longer form. 

But I want to offer something of a little bit deeper value than what I have now. You may have forgotten my recent download, which is like the things that get out of your mind and into your body. Yes, yes, I did. That I sent out in my email, which has a bunch of different ways you can try to kind of Work to help regulate your nervous system.

Our nervous system is different. We still can do certain things that well, we can practice while we're not overstimulated practice while we're not in particular states so that when we are in those states we have tools we can grab onto that we've already practiced when we were calm. That's why I love that freebie is because of that very fact, you know, we need that stuff.

It's great. That's a great resource. Yeah. Because there's more to managing it than solely medication. Medication does a lot of the heavy lifting. Yeah. And it works on about 80 percent of people. The stimulants work about 80 percent of the time. That is high. High efficacy. Very high. And what other medications?

Like your flu shot doesn't work at 100%. It doesn't work at 100 percent of the time? Right? So, so just, just know there's one ADHD specialist who's done so much research. He's looked over hundreds of thousands of different pieces of research and And he really just says, you know, we have a time blindness problem.

Yeah, time blindness. It like literally two hours could go by. We were going to do something for five minutes and two hours go by. We need to learn how to manage that so we can live our lives better, not more effectively or more efficiently, just in the ways that benefit us more.  Right. And so when I know I have to do something in 10 minutes.

I turned my cube to the little five. It's a physical thing. It's not my phone. I'm not going down the scroll hole on this thing.  And I, and I share this from time to time because it's like one of the tools that I've got. It's, it's nine bucks. Like it's one of the, but those management tools, not everybody knows they're out there.

Yeah, you can go on to Amazon, it's called a TimeCube, there's many different kinds, but 8 US, 8 or 9 US is what I grabbed these ones for. I just grabbed a little upgrade that's digital, and it has like a little light timer that like, goes down. But even that was 18 American only, so it wasn't, wasn't too terrible, but it's something I use every day.

That's awesome. Every day. I only preach what I practice. Mm hmm. If I don't use something or I haven't tried a tool, I'm not gonna be like, Oh, I know exactly what you're, you're doing because I've done it. No. If I haven't done it, I'll be like, No, I haven't given that a try. What do you, you know, what do you find that, that helps you with like, I'm not going to BS you.

There are certain things that some people contend with, with ADHD that I don't. And it's a spectrum, I think in the future, we're going to see it being very much a spectrum as well. Yeah. That makes sense to me.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Karrie, this has been so awesome. I knew, I knew when we talked that we were going to talk about so many things, but all things that people.

Like can really relate to and understand. And so, well, of course I want people to go find the Neuro Spicy Collective. So where can people find that? We'll put all this in the show notes, but where can they find that? Where can they find you? Tell me, tell the people where to go. People where to go. So the Neuro Spicy Collective is.

Just those three words, the Neurospicy Collective. I did see another one crop up, but it has like underscore hashtag. So it'll go into the show notes for you. So that's the Neurospicy Collective. And I, as a business mentor and life coach is Karrie Outloud. My name is K A R R I E and then the words Outloud.

And I'm on Instagram. And you can also go to KarrieOutloud. com. And I don't do business like a lot of business mentors. I, I basically preach about my coffee talks.  And my, you know, my email list,  that's what I talk about the most when it comes to like, what do I sell on Instagram? Because every human is different.

I have seven or eight different programs. I'll talk about them from time to time, but mostly I want to get to know you. I want to understand your business or understand what you want to create.  And figure out like really where it's coming from for you and then see which of the things that I have available that will work for you, not I'm going to throw one program at you and this is how you do things or you're just a failure and you can't do anything.

It's never going to be like that. You can ask Jen. She'll tell you like I was. It's like, how do we work with your brain to make it work with your brain so that, because if it doesn't work with our brain, we won't show up.  It's so true. And everything she said, right, that is exactly how she operates. And even if you're not somebody who's like interested in entrepreneurship or is an entrepreneur or any of that stuff, get on Karrie's email list because you want to get her love notes.

They're awesome. I love your emails. I love I love. I love writing those because those are kind of like, they, I call it the love note because really it is my love note to my soul sisters, my ADHD soul sisters. It's like, we have things in common. We're at different parts of the road, but the road is so similar for so many of us.

And my story is so the story I hear on repeat. It was like, I was told I have this. I pushed for testing. I got my testing. I was correct.  I got on the right Medicaid. I got on the right treatment for me. I started figuring out other ways to manage it as well.  And my life is 180 degrees different. Yep.  I hear that from so many.

Do we still have doubts? Do we still have rough days? Of course, of course, but if we're managing it  to the best of our abilities.  We won't be sitting in our poop wondering why it smells.  It's like, do you guys smell that? Hey dude, you're smelling it. What are you doing? Let's not be those people. Let's not, let's not do that.

No, no, because it's so easy to. Going to victim mentality, like, oh, I was born with this and I just nothing I can do about it. Garbage. Yeah, that's garbage There's always something that can be done. But some people want to Associate with things in a negative way and I am the opposite of that So if I'm not the person for you, I completely understand but I'm never gonna say you don't have problems I'm never gonna say oh You know, get over it.

Yeah, I'm gonna say that. No, I am.  Yeah, I was just gonna say you're not telling people to keep masking or keep like trying to like just power through and do it. No, no, I'm like, I'm like, what do we need to start prying the mask off just a little bit at a time? Like, what do we need to do? How do you take your first, how do you dip your toe in that?

It's like, okay, I'm having trouble. Starting to write my books, like, okay, we'll just open the, the page. Yeah. You don't even have to type anything. Just go to your computer and open up your document.  And then just acknowledge that it makes sense that you might have trouble starting. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.

Let's figure out a way to do it that works for you. And that's so much of what I talk about too, because I, I feel like I stress it all the time that I'm like, I'm not saying like, For you, you have ADHD, you're never going to be able to lose weight. That is never what I'm saying, but I am saying it might be different for you because your brain works differently.

And so let's figure out how to make it work for you in the beautiful way that you are. Yeah. And also I know that my attitude or my perception of this may trigger some people and that's okay because some of them would be like, Oh, just that's ridiculous. And then some people might stop and go. Well, that's an interesting perspective I haven't thought of yet, so that's really why I just speak from the heart, like, that's the only way I know to anyway, it's funny because  when people meet me, they're like, you're just like you are, I'm like, yeah, yeah, but like five, Seven years ago, who is that?

Who is that person? That's not you. That's some other, yes, that's right. That's some other version of me. And I think all those versions, because all those versions never gave up on getting me here. Every version of myself did not give up on me to get here. And I would rather have gone through those things and be here and be able to speak about it out loud so other women can figure it out for themselves.

Then be neurotypical. Oh, I know. I'd rather be this way than not. Me too. That's who I am. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, and it's not a, it's not a,  there's nothing wrong with you. Mm hmm. You're just like a little bit different kind of unicorn. That's all. 

Well, I love you. You know, I love you. Um, is there anything else, anything else that we didn't talk about that you want to say or you  know, I just, if people want to get in touch with me and talk to me in the first step for them to work with me in a business capacity or even life coaching is shoot me a DM that says coffee talk and then I will respond and we'll chat and line up our calendars.

Because that's the first step in anything I do when I work directly with a client. If I'm not working directly with you, like I do have a grab and go program for chat GPT for people with ADHD, which I love that program. It's very easy, it's bite sized, it's meant for our ADHD brains, and it's something that can be very helpful for us to organize thoughts and things like that.

But when I'm working with someone directly, I need to make sure I'm a fit for them and they're a fit for me. Mm hmm.  Because I can only help a certain amount in certain capacities and I only can help people who are coachable. And I can really feel that when I sit and talk with somebody as opposed to be like, okay, hire me for the next six months.

And then they didn't know what they were getting exactly, who they were getting exactly. I'm like, no, I won't do that. So that's why my, I talk about booking a coffee talk. That's the first step for us to work together. The coffee talk, the coffee talk, if you know, if any of you know what that's from, if you don't, it's Mike Myers character, Linda  from forever ago.

And she's like a. Jewish woman with bigger hair and big glasses and a thick New York accent and every time I think of the word coffee talk, I hear her saying coffee talk, you know, because at the beginning she's like, she's like, you know, we talk about coffee, dogs, dogs, daughters, New York, coffee, you know.

Coffee talk, and then she says all these Yiddish words that crack me the heck up. And yeah, he, she, he, Mike Myers did that character so well, but I always hear coffee talk, but I made it a coffee talk because it's really what it is. It's a casual thing where I get to know you and we see if one, we connect.

And then if we do, I either suggest one of the programs I already have in place. And if one of those isn't fitting where you are, I can construct something with you. To make sure that we get you what you need as well, instead of just want to be plug and play. So nothing I do is plug and play. No.  Nope, nobody is.

None of us are.  None of us are.  Well, it's been awesome talking to you today, Karrie. And we'll make sure all the contact info is in the show notes so everybody can reach out to you and follow along and get the love notes.  Well, yeah, the love notes are fun. Love notes are often just personal experiences or observations.

Sometimes there's a little bit businessy. Sometimes they're a little bit more ADHD. That's what my podcast is like as well. It's, I've got your podcast too. You got to talk about your podcast really quickly.  Yes, the, the ADHD entrepreneur and I will send you the link for that and it's entrepreneur but at the end instead of the R it has an  HER and it's half the episodes are business and half the episodes are ADHD education because just like I, an advocate, I believe that women owning businesses are whole people, not just their business. 

And I also just want to help women with ADHD in general, whether you're in business or not. So that's why I kind of split those episodes so that there was a It's kind a what? What is my friend called? A choose your own adventure books. Remember those turn page? Yeah. My podcast is a choose your own adventure and Love it.

And the ADHD content starts around episode 59 and I'm almost at episode 90. Ooh, that's wild. Believe it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.  Alright. I'm so grateful that you had me today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. I love being. Yes. Awesome. Oh, of course, of course. We'll talk to you later. Alright, Ty.

Take care. Thanks for having me.