The Strong Mom Podcast

You Are Not the Person I Married: From Olympic Thrills to Domestic Spills Reviving Marital Bliss

• Lauren Regula | Strong Mom • Episode 2

Share episode

When the thrill of my Olympic achievements was overshadowed by the creeping shadows of depression, my world – and my marriage to Dave – teetered on the brink. On our Strong Mom podcast, we weave a tale of the resilience and profound transformation that emerged from the unspoken battles with mental health. Dave and I, your hosts and partners in life, pull back the curtain on the turmoil that parenting and life pressures stirred within us, and how we fought to reclaim the joy in our lives and in our bond.

Our conversation is a journey through the heart of darkness and back into the light, tackling the immense challenges of starting a business, facing financial strain, and renovating a home, all while trying to shoulder the burden of stress and anxiety that comes with it. We lay bare the pivotal moments that led us to acknowledge the silent struggle, the power of asking for help, and the trials of supporting one another amidst personal chaos. Our story is a beacon for those who feel isolated in their struggles, showcasing the strength found in vulnerability and shared experience.

We wrap up with an uplifting testament to the power of setting goals that inspire, rather than constrain, and how we've learned to align our shared vision to not just weather the storm, but to dance in the rain. Whether it's rekindling the flame of partnership or finding new ways to approach communication, our insights on growth, timing, and embracing the pursuit of an amazing life are shared with raw honesty. Join us in this intimate exploration of the challenges we overcame together, and let us inspire you to find the courage to face your own, bolstered by the support of our Strong Mom community.

Links
Start HERE: 10min Clarity Call
bit.ly/Strong-Mom-Clarity-Call
The Strong Mom Mothership
strongmomstrongfam.com
Join Our Facebook Group
jointhesmmovement.com/the-strong-mom-group-1
Follow Me On Instagram!
...

Lauren:

The initial shock of not having your own time. Super pregnant one piece with the flesh color tights. Waking day for four years. Your brain space is on one thing.

Dave:

It's not like I woke up one day and was like, wow, I feel totally different than yesterday. It was just yeah, very, very small.

Lauren:

I don't think you knew what was happening to you. You're responsible for being a part of the solution.

Dave:

I still wanted you to be happy.

Lauren:

The marriage is only as strong as the weakest link.

Dave:

All right, another episode. I am extremely excited, probably more excited about this episode than any other episodes, I think a lot of times people they get to hear my story, they get to see me go do my thing, but they don't often hear the details of your side and what it was like to kind of navigate your wife and depression. So I'm Lauren.

Lauren:

I'm Dave.

Dave:

And we are the co-creators of Strong Mom. And today we're going to navigate the waters of what happens when you wake up and the person that you married isn't the same person anymore. So I went from being a two-time Olympian. When I met Dave, I was a two-time Olympian, super driven, confident, knew who I was. There were a lot of things that just seemed happy and normal and driven dedicated all those things.

Lauren:

Easy.

Dave:

Easy, easy. And we also didn't have kids, true, fair enough, true, but you did marry me in that state and fast forward through after three kids and a lot of life changes and all of a sudden I know there are many times you woke up and didn't recognize who was sleeping next to you in the bed and we're going to unpack that today. I know I'm going to learn a lot. There have been things that people have asked you and you share little nuggets of your answers, of what you were thinking and I had no idea. So I know I'm going to learn a lot today. Dave, we've been married 17 years now and we're just going to go back kind of to the beginning and through navigating how, where we are today which is incredible, something that I never imagined was a possibility. At my lowest of lows, I knew it will and that's why we're going to get to that.

Lauren:

That's part of the reason, I think. Maybe we made it through.

Dave:

Yep, so Dave stuck with me while I navigated six years of depression.

Lauren:

Yeah, it was a we navigating. I know you felt like it was a you, but it was a we.

Dave:

Fair, fair.

Lauren:

Thanks.

Dave:

All right, I got my notes here.

Lauren:

Take it away.

Dave:

All right, let's do this, all right.

Lauren:

So first Paint the picture a little bit Well.

Dave:

You paint the picture, you describe when we first got married from your eyes, from your perspective.

Lauren:

It was a layup. That's how I pictured up All right, tell me more.

Lauren:

Right, this whole episode is to hold Lauren on a pedestal Now. We met in Chicago this is 2005 or something for all the olds out there. Like me, I was working in the financial industry in Chicago, super ego driven, exciting, financially rewarding place, loving my life I met Lauren and, of course, as I'm an ex athlete myself and seeing meeting another high level athlete that has her shit together seemingly is exciting Right, somebody that's been to an Olympics you had. This is like way back when. Right, you had your own website, which I thought was kind of cool.

Dave:

I had a website before it was actually legit. It was, and it was actually before websites, not really money. No one had a website. Yeah, no one had a website back then.

Lauren:

No, laurenbaycom, don't look for it no longer. I think we took it over. But it was a legit site and I looked you up. You're an academic, all American, little known fact. Your academic career gets slept on and my athletic career gets slept on because of each other. But we meet, things are easy, we're training together. She's getting ready to go to another Olympics. Life is great, wonderful, and then things kind of after Beijing at the 2008 Olympics, kind of started to turn. The things were amazing. I don't want to say they turned, but internally for you, I think they turned when we got into the kid space. So we left the Olympics, which we've covered before, was not the best experience for you as somebody that's looking to win and we went right into kids. Right, you put your boggled love away. You walk me through a little bit of what that was like.

Dave:

Well, yeah, I think I went from. You know I have my eye on the prize and a lot of people can relate to this. You have a goal, you're training for it and then all of a sudden that goal's over. You have no you know whether it's a marathon goal, whatever that is, whether it's a promotion goal. All of a sudden that was over and it didn't end the way I wanted it to end. It didn't end the way I envisioned. So I definitely entered a little bit of. A lot of people have heard of the, you know, post Olympic or athlete mental not mental breakdown, but just a real struggle mentally.

Lauren:

The blues.

Dave:

Wow, it's definitely.

Lauren:

I definitely entered the it's definitely a diagnosis, studied thing, I'm sure with professional athletes in general, but Olympians specifically. Like when you leave the stage, olympians, probably because you spend that four year chunk, literally laser focused on one thing and then you've taken that's a huge part of your life right, as if you looked as a percentage, it's probably 80% of every waking day for four years. Your brain space is on one thing.

Dave:

Yeah.

Lauren:

And then that's gone with nothing, nothing to fill it.

Dave:

Yeah, but I was very excited to start a family and I felt like that was the next chapter. No, but for real. I hear or in case our kids listen, you're laughing at me right now. No, but I do think I looked at the next. Okay, now it's the next phase of my life. I definitely had some blues, for sure, but I was excited about the next phase of life.

Lauren:

You were kind of an older Olympian at that point. At the time right, you were 27, 28.

Dave:

Yeah.

Lauren:

Yeah, which you were one of the older kids now on your team, so I think that was part of the life moving on, yeah.

Dave:

And then we found ourselves five years into marriage and three kids, three and under. So we had that moment and I actually never forget this. It was like we knew we wanted kids right away and then we got pregnant right away. And then I found myself pregnant with Jack, even faster than I was expecting, at eight months old. And then, the next thing you know, I remember, for Christmas I handed you a box and inside of it was a pregnancy test, when I was pregnant with Will, which is our third, and Jack was only nine months old. So fast forward five years into our marriage, we have three kids, three and under. And I remember this like yesterday, because we knew we wanted kids right away, because you were a little bit older you're five and a half years older than I am and we wanted a family right away, got pregnant right away. Then, the next thing, you know, I found myself pregnant, surprising I wasn't surprised, but was surprised at eight months Just that I got pregnant so quickly both times.

Lauren:

I was really killing it. You're surprised you got pregnant.

Dave:

No, but I know sometimes it takes a while.

Lauren:

Isn't it interesting, total sidebar. When you're growing up, they have you scared to death of getting pregnant, like when you're in high school and college, and then it's not always that easy.

Dave:

Right and for us, we were very, very fortunate it was. And then I remember giving you a pregnancy test for Christmas in 2011 and you opened it and I actually had the camera ready for your reaction and I was pregnant again with Will. So we had three kids.

Lauren:

What was my reaction?

Dave:

I need to get the picture. It's gonna be a better picture.

Lauren:

I didn't know if I cried? I laughed Like what if I saw a ghost?

Dave:

No, your eyes went really big, yeah, the like you know oh shit, oh shit face. But that kind of started, I think, the difference in how we started as a couple and where we were headed as a couple, just with the five year or just with the three kids. So just tell everybody how you were feeling, because I would love to know.

Lauren:

actually, I was so stuck in my own struggles so walk through a world, but they'll back up for a couple a little bit. Right? You didn't just have the three kids Like. Things kind of started to derail like after one, right? Everyone knows that your first kid is like this. It's a huge deal, obviously, but it's that's the initial shock of not having your own time anymore. All of a sudden you're on the baby's time.

Lauren:

Lauren and I have less time, and then it's a little bit less with two and then with three. The wheels really fall off and you're going through depression at the time, right.

Lauren:

I as a guy, I think they tell you it's almost an expectation that things are gonna get a little dicey, a little wonky. Your wife's gonna be grumpy, she's not gonna sleep, You're gonna be up breastfeeding and I think I I mean I'll. I think I did a pretty good job of sharing the load as best I could. It wasn't like where it were ever a family, where it was like you do everything. I know that works for some people in the kindest way.

Lauren:

It wasn't gonna work for us. I wanted to be part of it and so I was tired as well, like I still get up at five every day for work, but I think it. We went through a period of like, oh, this is just how it's supposed to be Right. And then it kind of got a little bit darker. And then, I know, after the third pregnancy Well, so the second you start a physical issues, right, some swelling in your legs, things like that. Third, you were wearing compression hose. You look like a Hooters waitress with those flesh colored tights in the summer in Chicago, like at the pool. It's not the best.

Dave:

Just at the pool.

Lauren:

I'll just ask that hanging out super pregnant, one piece with the flesh colored tights, but we were good. But I think once that our third will was born and Was not easy had some allergies and some things like that I could kind of tell that things were Pretty bad, and maybe it affected me too. Maybe I. So this is about the time I chose to leave my career To really pour gas on the fire, and so you're going through this tough time that I'm starting to kind of think is normal, and I'm probably not as aware at the time because I have my own shit going on, unhappy at work. My industry had changed and so we decided to leave and move back to Ohio, and so in the middle of this, low at Lauren, I Don't think you knew what was happening to you. It's one thing to say I don't feel well, but it's another thing to say I've postpartum or Whatever. What did that feel like to you at the time?

Dave:

Did you recognize what it was? No, honestly, I just didn't feel like myself. But I also didn't expect to feel like myself and I figured that's just the way it is. And it wasn't like I Walked off a cliff, it was. It was slowly, so it was like boiling the frog.

Lauren:

It was one degree, yeah, every day yeah, and before you know it, you're boiling.

Dave:

Yeah, but I couldn't tell. Yeah, there was no mass. I mean, I had some massive issues. I had some massive moments where you know punching things and all that stuff screaming no humans. Wait no humans.

Lauren:

Yeah, you didn't punch any humans oh thank you.

Dave:

Yeah, no, no, walls, punched walls and chairs. But yeah, I think it was just so gradually that I didn't. It's not like I woke up one day and was like, wow, I feel totally different than yesterday. It was just, yeah, that very, very small.

Lauren:

Yeah, so we'll. We're back in Ohio then and Building a gym.

Dave:

Oh, so just really quickly want to note though this is such a good reminder. I'm going through my own crap, just trying to hold it together. I have no Awareness of really what's going on in your life, except for I mean except for we talked, but how you saw our life, because I couldn't. I could only see through mine and get through the day. And so the reason why I'm saying that is because I knew. I didn't know, I knew you're unhappy. I didn't know to what extent, but I knew you're unhappy enough to want to move, and Even though I was not Mentally well, I still wanted you to be happy. And so you were done with your current career and we picked up because we need to be very clear. We picked up and sold our house, or how? Sold in two days, we put it on the market, went to Florida to visit your parents with the kids. We got a call in Florida Said that the house I'm having a bad emotional response to this moment.

Dave:

Yeah, remember we. We didn't think it would sell that fast and it was at price Offer and in two days and we were like holy shit, does that mean we are? Are we going?

Lauren:

Yes. So we left. We didn't have. We were opened our first business alone, without a partner. We opened a fitness facility, strengthening conditioning facility, that or we had the idea right. It was a live business. We didn't have anywhere to put it and so we moved home Without work and so we ended up.

Lauren:

Things fell through in a couple different spots. We were very particular about what we wanted to build, which we still are, with everything, and that added about 18 months of no income to our family, which was okay because of what we left in Chicago. But it definitely became stressful when there's no end in sight. So, as I am experiencing the worst stress of my life personally, because I'm supposed to, you know, I've got my role, lawrence, the mom, the kids at that point, a little bit the business for sure, but we didn't have a business and so it was.

Lauren:

I felt like it was very much on me To provide right, and I think that's the traditional that makes sense, and so I was just dying inside. I was Looking back, most likely depressed. I certainly had some anxiety issues to where they affected me physically, and then you were dying on the vine, like badly, and I don't think I Again recognize that. You hit it. Tell me about that, like you were going, and this is where I think a lot of women moms can relate like. Tell me what you felt like inside and then what you felt like you were portraying outside.

Dave:

Yeah, it's so hard to go back because I don't. I feel like I blocked it.

Lauren:

Yeah, totally.

Dave:

Yeah, it was, it was. I knew you were stressed. You spent three months in a robe, bathrobe, walking around the house just like a lost dog. So I think that's the one thing about our marriage. Even though I struggled so badly, I think I tried. I tried to keep it together because I knew you were really struggling and we did. I did the things with the kids and we now had a yard, right.

Dave:

We moved from Chicago where we didn't have a yard. We had big trees, we made leaf piles. I tried to make the most of it, but it was. It was very stressful. I couldn't see an end in sight. I couldn't see like we thought we were moving to Ohio to open up a business. The next thing, you know, we didn't have a business. The next thing, you know Now, this idea we have no location. And then month, days turn to weeks, weeks turn to months, months turn to years. And yeah, we were fortunate with, you know, leaving Chicago, duty or like in a financial position. But we were just Like writing check after check, and so there was a point where it was like, holy shit, we need to do something.

Lauren:

Yeah, but you've just totally Ignored my question. Won't be the first time or the last time this happens. How did you feel inside? It's almost like you want to skip some reason. Tell me how you felt inside.

Dave:

Yeah, I was not happy. I was, I honestly, I was probably resentful, to be honest. Okay, I was were you depressed? I was super depressed, I was scared.

Lauren:

I was thoughts, don't just say super depressed, like you've told some of it.

Dave:

Yeah, it's when I say I feel like I blocked it out. I feel like I blocked it out.

Lauren:

Did you ever leave that? Did you ever yell?

Dave:

Oh, I yelled a lot. I yelled a lot. I remember jumping in the car and going to sit in the Acme parking lot and I tried to rip the steering wheel off of the. I was just I Don't know. I was like rage, that's actually. I was like I kind of went through moments of rage. I don't, I'm not a big drinker and I remember drinking every bottle of wine. I opened a glass of, or a bottle of champagne once, because I just I had the constant sick feeling, the anxious feeling. I don't even I don't even, you know, drink much. Now, at the time I barely drank because it made me feel so bad, but I just edgy, everything was edgy and Every little thing. Just it was very easy to set me off, I know, you know that.

Lauren:

I know, I know it now. I didn't know it then. No, you didn't know it then no, you would steal off and go away by yourself, and so I wouldn't see it right and so it was very, very hard, and I think this is again where people relate. When the game is about covering up, no one understands how you feel right, and that's kind of the first step and we'll get to that, but it was really the first step is understanding how you felt.

Dave:

Yeah, but I think so, since this whole episode is about marriage and, you know, sticking it through and figuring out how to come out the other side, when, I mean, we had things very Challenging. Not saying you know more or less, I'm just saying of other people, but just for us personally. We had a lot of challenging moments and we really did go through a lot of that time side by side. There wasn't a lot of integration. A lot of it was because I didn't want to share how I was feeling, because I already knew things were bad.

Dave:

The last thing I wanted to do was add Fuel to the fire. That's number one. Number two, I'm sure and it's hard to really put myself back in that position it was so long ago, but I'm sure there was also a sense of I didn't want to. I didn't want to appear that things bothered me like I've the whole, I've got this, I've got this right, but when you, we really break it down and we haven't really talked that much about this time in our life. To be honest, we really did a lot like you did a lot on your own, I did a lot on my own, and what was, what was day-to-day life for you during the whole period. We moved to Ohio we finally get our gym up and running, by the way, after a year and a half and Then we spent our all of our waking hours in the gym, which I don't know how you felt about that I I did not like it because I missed my kid. I missed the kids.

Lauren:

I was just gonna say I have some great memories of it with the kids in the gym, right. I don't think it was such a, it was such a blur. We opened, we built literally built from scratch, physically built from scratch this facility and remodeled and gutted part of our house at the same time.

Lauren:

I don't know if you remember that we moved in like the same week the gym opened and we moved into a house that didn't have hot water and so floor so going on, lawrence, lawrence, wilting and not telling me and I'm probably wilting a little bit, but I'm I don't know yet still because, right, you're not being open about it and that was the struggle you put on pretty well. Right, I didn't see any anger, I didn't see that stuff, maybe some detachment, but again, like when you're in this moment, everything around you tells you, oh, it's okay, it's supposed to be like this, it's supposed to not be great.

Dave:

Yeah, we just moved. We haven't made any money. We've poured everything into building the gym.

Lauren:

Yeah, a big chunk of the life savings into the thing, and so this went on for a couple of years, probably two years, until the true rock bottom. So let's cut to the bottom and then let's work through the fixes and try and help anybody else going through it.

Dave:

So 2018, I'd characterize that as pretty much the worst of the worst. Probably had similar thoughts along the way, but I actually said them out loud, so probably the worst of the worst in that particular.

Lauren:

So for me, that's when I started to see you go to bed at five o'clock. That's when the true outward expression of depression came right. Lauren would go to just disappear at six o'clock. I'm exhausted, I need to lay down, and then she wouldn't wake up. So I would have the kids from, and the kids at the time were seven, five and four, and so pretty damn active and up my ass, I don't know how else to put it. Anyone with kids that remembers kids at that age. They need you a lot, they wanna play with you, which is amazing. But day in, day out it's tough and we stopped. We kind of stopped sharing that like responsibility.

Lauren:

At times, like when I was at the gym, you would take it, but then it was just like I felt like I was stressing at the gym and then I would come home and then it would be like okay, here, and then you would go to bed. And, as I found out later when you left for the Olympics the third time, it's not just the childcare, it's the cooking and the cleaning of dinner, which is a dagger, and so that started to get to me in it. Definitely that probably frustration and that lack of energy from you is really. I mean, those are like telltale depression symptoms. But that's when things started to get really bad, because I'm like okay, something's really wrong and I got worried, right, and so then it's not only this worry, but then, when I was worried, I started to address it because I knew finally that something was actually going on. This wasn't normal. It's not normal for somebody to go to bed at 6 pm, right, those conversations are where it got tough.

Dave:

Yeah, but just out of curiosity, like I don't know how I would manage living with someone who was, I mean, detached as a good word, empty, disconnected, like that's how I felt. I'm sure you felt that Well, I know you did, yeah, for sure, I mean, it certainly hurts.

Lauren:

I'm a big believer, I'm a guy, right. So, like our sex life is important to me and so it is to you, right, huh, yeah, and so sex life is important to me and at the time, like when that kind of affection and that bond is not there, like that's when I'm like, huh, this doesn't feel good. And so I think those were the questions and conversations we started to have. It was like this this can't go on like this. And I remember we had those conversations, for sure, and it took a while to get there, but I think that was like incredibly important, like really setting the scene for the turnaround, because you can't, if we don't have those hard conversations, you can't acknowledge where you're at.

Lauren:

It's truth, like you need to start from ground. Truth and I mean the true moment was we took a trip to San Francisco like a couple's trip, and met a family member and did some things. We hiked, we went to Meere Woods and we have a picture from the day. Meere Woods We've talked about this Like you had essentially a panic attack in like one of the most beautiful places that we've hiked and we love hiking, and that was the moment we get back to the hotel and was like literally what is going on in my life right now, like what is this? And I just cracked and called the therapist from. I remember standing in the hallway at the Fairmont in San Francisco.

Dave:

Yeah.

Lauren:

And you were pissed. Yeah, because it was officially out in the open. Yep, like officially you needed help and that was the real issue. And I think this happens to so many people and from talking with thousands of moms, it's like, unfortunately, social media puts women, and moms specifically, in a position where everything has to be perceived as together, like there's almost like it's like a badge of honor I can hold it together, things look good, I can drive the Pinterest. Mom is a thing for a reason, all of the crafts and the holidays are perfect and the kids go where they need and I'm not stressing, and so I think that just created the problem in a way. And once it was broken and that was kind of shattered, then we could get to business. And for me, like again you can say I'm a guy, but like I want to get to business, like I can't live like this. It's been six years.

Dave:

Yeah, we had a few conversations where you were like I'm not doing this, not doing it, I'm not living like this, but you're, yeah, talk about.

Lauren:

Just to be clear, that conversation is something. Something has to change. I don't know what it is, but this what is happening right now is not.

Dave:

An option. It wasn't an option.

Lauren:

Not an option. We ain't doing this anymore.

Dave:

Actually, that's exactly what you said, but how was it?

Lauren:

How did you? How did that land when I said that Not well, In what way?

Dave:

Well, I knew things weren't good, but I didn't know how to change it. And when you, when I, when I felt the way I felt as someone who's you know legitimately depressed, I was at a loss. I can't, I don't know. That's that's why I would rather not wake up. I knew things were wrong. I knew they're not wrong, but not good Like they. I knew I couldn't fix it. I didn't know how to fix it. I was so low that I didn't care. I just wanted everything to be over. Everything. I just did. That's why it was.

Dave:

It was too difficult for me to figure out how we were going to figure. I had no energy to do anything, nevermind fix something that I truly didn't know how to fix. It was very. It was a really interesting time because when I'm in my right mind, I understand there there are you know what do we say? Reasons or results. Right, I know there are things that we can do to make an outcome better. That is logical to me. Behaviors that we have now as husband and wife can create a better relationship in the future. I understand I had zero logic. I had zero. I had zero anything.

Lauren:

So you're saying that you didn't have answers?

Dave:

Zero, I had no answers.

Lauren:

Okay, so here's a question for you.

Dave:

But I but I also felt responsible. I knew that it was. I knew that it was my fault, like I knew that, whatever was going on, when you say this is not, we're not doing this anymore, I knew it wasn't. You didn't play a part in that. I'm sure I blamed you for a lot of things during that time.

Lauren:

But I sure it was. I'm sure it wasn't perfect and I absolutely played a part right, but here's the thing it wasn't said as like a threat. It was more of a. Something has to change. Like I'm done having this conversation, but here's. Here's the question. You just described that whole way that you felt. How many times did you ask for help?

Dave:

Zero.

Lauren:

Okay, so this is the issue. You mentioned it, you just said it something about being responsible, and so this is where I think people get in trouble. This is where I think moms get in trouble. You, in this case, thought you were responsible for the solution. You're not responsible for being the solution. This is how I always looked at it. You're responsible for being a part of the solution. You don't need to find the life raft. You need to find the person to throw it to you. You don't need this specific answer yourself.

Dave:

Right, you're saying I don't need to build. I don't need to build the life raft from scratch, when I don't know how to build a life raft. I get that. You're like yes, I agree, but when I was so low it was difficult to eat. I did not see hope. That's what it is. There was no hope. I thought there was no way anything was gonna change.

Lauren:

So this reminds. Honestly, it makes me think of like you weren't in a headspace to be able to put the pieces together. When you say not thinking logically, that's not necessarily just logic, that's being able to make sense of the world. You couldn't ask for help in that scenario. Honestly, it's like when women come into the program very concerned about their weight or their appearance, but they need to settle their internal state before they can build that, and they never do that. They've never done that in the past, and so that's why they've always struggled Like you needed to settle your internal state before you could start to make changes.

Dave:

But answer this, though, cause this is your episode.

Lauren:

Answer this, though, how did this is my big episode.

Dave:

Yes, this is one of them.

Lauren:

Okay.

Dave:

How did you stick through it? When I'm going to bed, I'm as affectionate as a fricking rock.

Lauren:

That's probably two kinds of a term for me, not the rock, the rock.

Dave:

I was affectionate as, like I had zero affection, which is very important to you. I was very negative, very negative. I would tell you all the time why we were going to be homeless and our kids were never going to go to college and we weren't going to be able to put food on the table.

Lauren:

That was a good time.

Dave:

I. That's how I saw the world.

Lauren:

It's very interesting. I talk to people now just kind of mentoring, people starting businesses that are starting from scratch, and a couple of people that haven't haven't been able to see the vision right. They've never. How can they see something or achieve something they've never done before? And those were the we would get in yelling arguments about. I would say, well, we can do this, someone else has done it. And you would say, well, we've never done it. Why, why, what?

Dave:

And I just looking back, it's wild now Wild especially because that's not my natural, that's all my nature.

Lauren:

My nature is, I can figure anything out. You want a bronze medal, right?

Dave:

Yeah, but even before then.

Lauren:

You had never done it before.

Dave:

No, I know, and I again, I get this logically, but how did you, day by day, by day by day, I think it's the same thing, it's the same internal optimism, and it's not positivity, right?

Lauren:

Positivity? We've talked about this again. I think positivity can be toxic as all hell right, because it creates a disconnect internally, like cognitively. You know things aren't great, you can't talk yourself into things being great. But if you have a vision that things can be great which they can be right, because you're talking about something that's possible, what's possible, not what's probable If you can think in terms of possibility, you can maintain optimism and that can be your vision. That can power you and give you energy. It's not just positivity. So I always thought that we could we talk about this, be, we could be version 2.0 of what we were in the beginning. In the beginning, you're super confident, you're athletic, you're doing all these things, you're traveling the world, having so much fun, like to-.

Dave:

Connected.

Lauren:

We were super connected, Super connected, all that stuff, Sex life, great. All I could think about was like well, if we've done that, I know we can get that back. I know the person is in there. I never lost sight of that and maybe I don't specifically remember if I saw glimpses, but I have to guess maybe you had moments when your true self kind of came out. I'm also not a quitter Like it wasn't like we were trying to build something from scratch again. It was let's be who we are, and I think we've had those moments a few times in our relationship, like don't forget who you are, Kind of things, and I didn't forget who we were together. Does that make sense?

Dave:

Yeah, it does.

Lauren:

I was just curious, just surprises you.

Dave:

No, no, no, but I really look back and I only was able to. I was only able to see life through my lens. So I had no empathy, I had no sympathy, I had no. You know, I had no emotions at all tied into what you must have been going through, because I actually remember this. I remember you told me you felt lonely. I would never know that, because I'm alone with my own thoughts all the time and all I wanted to do was be alone, right Like that, like to me. It was like, and then I realized that you're, you know and I'm sure there's plenty of people listening to this that can relate You're in your own house, but lonely as all hell, that's the loneliest you're ever.

Lauren:

To me, that's the loneliest I'll ever be. Like were you jealous of me when I said I'm lonely? You're like you, fucker. That's awesome, I think the loneliest.

Lauren:

For me personally, the loneliest place I can be is in my house, feeling lonely around. If you feel lonely around the people, that should make you feel seen and heard in all those terms. Like that's when it's bad and I think that's what got me. No, I think it's interesting too, like when it's not just like I didn't push back and keep pushing you, because it's not just that optimism in the vision. I also believed that like the work works, like I think I had gone through some things and those were times when I had spent maybe because I wasn't around you, because it was tough deeper times around my guy friends and kind of digging into this stuff, being open about it on my end, and so I found some things that worked for me and I think, understanding that like A and this is where I think people can go wrong they put pressure.

Lauren:

There's a time pressure right, Like if I'm not better by next week or if we're not better tomorrow. They live in the day and I think a lot of times, if you zoom out, you can see like it's okay, like I can reboot tomorrow and give it another go, or I can go again next week. It's not life isn't short in meaning that you don't need fixes ASAP. You need to work towards fixes, you need to maintain that path of trying to get better. But if it doesn't work on the first day, it's okay, and so I knew that if we did keep working over time, we could find it. I didn't know what the answer was. That's the other thing.

Dave:

Did you ever feel trapped? Did you ever feel like I won out?

Lauren:

No, never no.

Dave:

Like never, even on my worst, I was pretty bad. I was a nightmare at times. I understand that at the time I didn't care. I knew I was, but I didn't care, not because I wanted to be mean, but I literally had no emotion.

Lauren:

No, I think I probably just put time. I just withdrew into other things within my life, like training, right, or my friends or the kids. I never wanted to run away. There's just times when you need a time out. You know what I mean. That's what I felt like Like all right time out, I need to go train, or I need to go take the kids out by myself, or something like that.

Dave:

Yeah, we had plenty of moments actually where we would take the kids out together and I just wouldn't even engage with the family.

Lauren:

No, it was like this is the best. I have a picture. We went to the zoo which we love big animal people love the kids at the zoo and there's like pictures of me walking around the zoo big zoo with the three kids and then Lauren's like 10 feet behind the kids like walking, and it's like she's Eeyore, essentially like just dragging ass, following us around. I remember that day. That was like that's burnt into my brain. I think you said like five words in five hours and it was just like wow, this is really hard and that's what was hard. Like you would wake up and just know. I remember I'd be like so how are you feeling? And you would. Whatever you would say, it was like you knew that that day was just gonna be a zero energy, zero output I can tell, I can still tell.

Lauren:

Yeah, it sucks. It's a little scary to me, to be honest, not scary like in the bigger sense, but like it's triggering. It's probably a better way to put it.

Dave:

That was a source of fights between us was you'd say how are you feeling? And I'd say not good, and then you'd be like the day hasn't even started. How do you know that it's not gonna be good? And I can tell you like from just like an energy. It's hard for me to think my brain doesn't process things. I tell people, you know, if you've never been in depression, it's really hard to describe. But if you gave me a spreadsheet, I would have a really hard time just like reading it and understanding what I'm supposed to do, like my brain wasn't working so and I know we've had these conversations I don't want it to be that way.

Lauren:

Do you see it from my angle, though? Like waking up with someone that's in there's a full day of taking care of young kids and cooking and cleaning and going to take care of the all the things, and like, as soon as I wake up, it's like a coin flip whether I'm on my own that day. Like that's hard right, and I know it was hard for you, but that was kind of what I was dealing with at the time, which was challenging, as they say. In the kindest possible terms, it was challenging.

Dave:

All right. Well, let me ask you a couple of questions that have come up, and I know we love. I love talking about marriage, I love talking about our journey, because a lot of times again, when you look at things from the outside, you automatically assume like, oh, look at them, they have everything together. Just like when you look at moms who have all their shit together and you're like, oh man, and then you realize you know, everyone's just a hot mess, but everyone has a journey, Everyone has a story. I've said this a billion times.

Dave:

I don't think we would be as close as we are now if we didn't have the struggles that we did. I do feel like there's an opportunity to get stronger through struggles, or that's maybe where people say this is too much of a struggle. I don't wanna do that and it's time to end the marriage or whatever endeavor it is. But I have a couple of questions that have come up that I thought were really good questions and I'm really curious of this answer so well, one of them is why was it important to work through struggles together? Do you felt like we worked through our struggles together? So let's just sorry, I'll wind it back, I'm getting ahead of myself.

Lauren:

What if I say no?

Dave:

That's fine, this is your day.

Lauren:

I know I don't want attention right now. That's why I tossed that out.

Dave:

No. So what ended up happening was you called, you know, the therapist, you called the phlebotomist. I got my blood work done, I went to therapy, started getting to work. I was more open to your help, which I was never open to your help previously We've talked about that before when you always just wanted to fix. You know, I appreciate it, because you always wanted to fix what was wrong.

Lauren:

So I think, yeah, one thing going back that this might be, for I don't know how many non moms will be listening at some point there'll be a lot, but I think the big thing with that call to the therapist was, as a guy right there it's guys are fixers, women need listeners. Essentially, is that fair?

Dave:

Well, I need a listener and you're definitely a fixer.

Lauren:

So fair, it's true in our, I know, but I'm not I know we're not the only ones right and so I think the biggest thing for me especially I mean when we met, certainly there was an ego at play for me being able to help.

Lauren:

It wasn't it didn't come from a bad place, always, I'm sure.

Lauren:

Well, there's honestly, there's probably part of me that wanted to be able to say that I helped fix it. But there the majority of it was like I just wanted to help you, like it's hard to watch every day, like you continuously feel terrible, and so I wanted to fix and help. That was really it, but it took I mean, you can say it took six years, but I finally realized like I don't have the answers and it's okay, like that was maybe the biggest thing for me was like Okay, if we're gonna have what we want, and like if I'm gonna be the one that says we can't do this anymore, while I had to be part of the solution, which was to say you know what I'm not the answer which I think is hard for a lot of guys, especially taking pride in the relationship or the way that it kind of society looks at it like I just gave up in terms of trying to do it myself, and so that's when bringing an outside help therapists and doctor for blood work and things like that it changed.

Dave:

Yeah, and it also is helpful for me too, I think, because, well, it's true for sure I'm support.

Lauren:

All the sudden, instead of like, yes there's no push pull. Now all of a sudden, instead of me facing you, I turned and walked next to you in the same direction.

Dave:

Yes, and so you saying you could fix it or you know what you know. You would always say, well, why don't you do this and why don't you do this and why don't you do this? And it was. I had a lot of resistance to that, but it was a lot easier for me to accept help from outside sources, which I think is very common. It's funny, even the moms we work with right now are like you know. It's funny. The things that we're talking about or the workouts that we're doing, my husband's been trying to get me to for years and I get it. Sometimes you just need someone else to say, hey, this is important, let's go ahead and do this. It's a different perspective, it's a different relationship, it's a different dynamic. But a lot of my resistance came from I truly knew that in my. I truly believed you had no idea what I was going through. So the things you suggested, I'm like like you have no idea.

Lauren:

How many times did you come home from the therapist and say watch.

Dave:

I told her that you said that to oh yeah, a million, not even a, not even that's not even a question.

Lauren:

That's all I need. That's a public record now.

Dave:

All right. So it was important for us to, as we, as I started to get better mentally myself, we started to work, work, legitimately work on our marriage. I would say I think we've done a lot of things.

Lauren:

Yeah, your mind was right. Like I think it just takes a little positive feedback right, like we got a little bit closer. Then we're like, oh, this feels good, let's do more to work on this, and then it just kind of fed itself.

Lauren:

It was always a priority for us. It wasn't like you know, it wasn't like all of a sudden it was terrible and then like, oh, we need, you know, red alert, we need to work on this. From the very beginning, when we met each other, I think we were always, like, very into that aspect.

Dave:

Yeah, yeah. So I guess the question would be we worked on it together, but we also worked on ourselves separately, so why do you say that with a pained look on your face?

Dave:

Well, I'm just because, honestly, it's this one question and as I'm trying to work through the question, I'm trying to make it make more sense for what we're talking about Because it says why was it important to work on your struggles together? But, at the end of the day, I don't think you worked on my struggles, I think you worked on yourself. You got to get your own shit together. I worked on myself, but we worked on our, our marriage together and we supported each other. That's I know I've said this a million times and I'll say it till I'm blue in the face, but the one thing I think we've done very well is support each other.

Dave:

Even at my lows, when I'm not feeling great, I was like you know you're not feeling, I know you don't love your job. Let's move like, do big life decisions, think we've always wanted to support each other. But when I, when I see this question, it says why is it important for you, for you to work through your struggles together, I think to be dead honest, we worked on ourselves a shit ton and then we brought, like I remember when I started reading and listening to and doing all the things and working out I would share like this is what I did, this is how good I feel, and then you would tell me what you were doing, and then we would. We would connect those and then move together with our couple dumb, or whatever you would call it.

Lauren:

No, I think that's dead on. Like people need to work on themselves. Their marriage is only as strong as the weakest link, essentially so like you can put all the work in yourselves, but you're individually going to help hold each other back. Yeah, in my opinion.

Dave:

And it's even now I mean even today, even last week when I don't feel great about myself for whatever reason. Maybe I take a week off of working out whatever reason it always always shows up with me not being as affectionate, me being preoccupied, saying I'm too busy and it's, it's true, Me not being super confident with myself and being all self self conscious. It really has to do with that, and then it affects our relationship. You just call me on it now and I can totally take it much better than the past.

Lauren:

Well, I think it's important this is probably for everybody is to have like. To me, it's important to have space and understanding to be able to call you on it right. It's one thing if you're not accepting of it but like we need to have that communication, I think, which is everything.

Dave:

Yep. So what are the experience? What did the experience of us navigating life right? Three kids, a new business. I'm in depression, massive depression. What did that teach you about our relationship or relationships in general?

Lauren:

Wow, that's an interesting question, I think well how about our relationship?

Dave:

That's really what we can relate it to.

Lauren:

It told me. I think it told me that there was more in play than I thought In terms of when we first pre kids get together, even at the very beginning. You kind of get used to stability, you get used to ease and the way it is and you just assume that it's always going to be like that and I think if you're not careful in paying attention, things can veer off course. It's the one degree again at a time you know it's like. If you're you know, lauren, I've taken a road trip from LA to New York and we take a wrong turn in California, we can end up in Florida for not paying attention, and I think that was a huge, huge thing. I learned that we need to check in and be aware and do a little bit of reflection pretty often to stay on top of things.

Lauren:

I think another huge thing that I learned was that we can have whatever we want Right. It's just belief in work and, above all, I think the most important thing is honesty over comfort. It took a long time for us to get dead honest. Probably maybe it's the conversations about can't do this anymore. It could be a lot of things, but until you get to the truth of where you're at and this goes with anything you're going to stay stuck. You can't address the real issues if you don't uncover the real issues and a lot of times the real issues feel terrible, they hurt to tell, they're embarrassing their shame around them and you heard.

Dave:

You heard each other's feelings hurt each other's feelings.

Lauren:

All of that has to come out. I think that's where the best stuff comes from, right, I think that's where you get closer. And once you do it once, it's a little easier. The next time you do it again, it's even easier. And so if you can establish that pattern and understand that, then all of a sudden, now you know something comes up and it's like well, let's go for a walk. And when we go for a walk, we're going to be yelling at each other, and that's okay, because we know that it's just going to get hashed out. Let's just get it over with, be done and move on right and get better. And so I think we've it's taken. I mean, what did you say? 17 years we've been married. It's a little bit better every day, like that's what we're working towards in terms of communication and easy, there's still going to be bumps, right, but if you know it's like, you know you've, you've tested yourself, you've built confidence from, you know results, and I think that matters.

Dave:

So I love that honesty over comfort. I think sometimes we try and stay too comfortable, which, being too comfortable, all of a sudden, 10 years down the road, that too comfortable place is not a good place to be. The other thing that we've talked about a lot is timing over topic. You could have any difficult conversation. We can have any difficult conversation if it's the right time. That's definitely when I talk about tools in our toolbox of things that I can go to when it comes to communication, communications, everything I there was a time that I had no awareness of you, had your own thoughts and perception of what life was going on.

Dave:

I always thought that what I saw is what everybody else saw. Right is what you saw. Like when I didn't want to be around people, I assumed you didn't want to be around people. Never occurred to me that you had a different feeling and emotions, and so that was really important. But we have definitely had some very not good, we've had very poor conversations because the timing was just terrible. It wasn't that we needed, it wasn't that we weren't, we shouldn't have talked about it. It was something that needed to be talked about. But, yeah, timing over topic 100 percent.

Lauren:

Typically, if you're having the conversation about something, even with a little bit of stress, after like eight o'clock at night doesn't work very well. Everyone's tired, Things go off track and that's. We still get into trouble with that one. So I love timing over topic is massive.

Dave:

One more question and then we'll wrap it up. Where are you proud of that? You stayed the course right. It would have been really easy to take a wrong turn right. Where do people go wrong? This is what someone, someone, asks. Where do people go wrong when faced with a tough challenge? Cause it's always. It's always difficult when, when people ask us about our journey, because I can sit here and say a hundred percent confident that we knew we were the right people for each other and you know, we knew that in you, especially since you were in your right mind the whole time. You knew that we could always have something special. But where where could people go wrong?

Lauren:

It's different for everybody. That's the hard part.

Dave:

Maybe the lack of vision?

Lauren:

Yeah, it's it's not just vision, it's got to be shared vision, right. I think that was a big one. If you have a vision and your spouse or partner has a different vision and there's no communication around kind of melding those two together, I think that's a big potential landmine, right. And again, everyone's different. They're in that at the same time, there are situations that people should walk away from, right. We're not here to say that everyone should stick it out. You know you're you're situation deeper than anybody.

Lauren:

But I guess it comes back to just sitting and thinking like okay, where have I been with this person? What have I felt like in the past? If you felt like it in the past, you can get back to that point at at the bare minimum, in my opinion, right. If you want to take it further which I hope for everybody that they want to take it further, right, cause there's always room to grow and be closer and have tougher, more enjoyable conversations. The one thing I want to talk about real quick is we hear this a lot what if? What people? What people think about it? What people think they? They can't even envision what they want. What if they think it's too far out of reach? Cause you mentioned earlier. You think that you have this life now that you didn't think was possible. So how, what do you tell people who, like they, they're, all they can see is, oh, maybe they're just seeing, oh, just getting along better, just having a communication conversation?

Dave:

Well, you actually taught me this because I I used to aim very low when it came to goals, because I didn't want to get my hopes up and then be disappointed. I think my, my defense mechanism would be to I don't like feeling disappointed. I would rather undershoot, not not me and my normal self, but when I don't, when I don't have any confidence, I don't want to shoot for a goal and undershoot. Um or sorry. Shoot for a goal, that's. That's pretty lofty. I feel like a failure if I don't reach it.

Lauren:

This is relationship. This could be for anybody. This could be a physical goal, a work goal, whatever.

Dave:

Yeah, I think that's super common.

Lauren:

We hear that a lot from the women in the program.

Dave:

Yep, and it's, it's fun. I finally have understood that we have more control. Like, like I said, you and I choose to create actions that make a better marriage. We just went on a lunch date because we couldn't get a dinner date in on the books because of you know, the busyness of life at that particular week. We try and do our date nights we just talked about going away a couple nights with us. We do our vision boards together. We we try and stay connected and we actually create actions that build a life that we want.

Dave:

And it finally sunk in that if someone's done it, it's doable, it's realistic and the the bigger I dream doesn't mean it's going to end up that exact dream, but I think the more doors open.

Dave:

So I know for our relationship personally when I think of it as the best it can be, versus I just want to get back to a space where we actually want to be in the same room together, um well, but then more doors open because we're not. We wouldn't think let's go on our week. You know five day connection. That's what we do. We go on like five days, usually sometime around our anniversary. We might not think to do that because if we're just happy being in the same room together, why reach for anything else? So I think more doors open with the bigger vision is and because I've been feeling amazing and I've also been feeling at the bottom of the barrel. There is no reason why amazing, plus, plus, plus, plus plus shouldn't be at least strived for, because if you don't hit it, you're still going to be a hell of a lot further than you would if you would have aimed just to be average.

Lauren:

I like it.

Lauren:

I think along those same lines, like, once people create we do health maps right In the program Program uh, and that's a tool to help people kind of break through.

Lauren:

Once you outline what you would, what you would want let's say it's a six month or 12 month goal let's say for your relationship you need to keep rebooting that vision. Don't just sit on the same vision and goals with your thing. Right. When you get to nine months or 12 months or even six months, reevaluate, reshoot, because the odds are, if you put the work in and you are growing and you're connecting at a greater level, a deeper level, all of a sudden you're going to have more inside of you to drop an even grander vision, right, and so you need to continually do those exercises, not a one off. You don't just say, when you're a kid, I want to play in college, right, well, all of a sudden, when you get to realize, maybe, that you're going to play in college, you need to shoot again. You need to say, hey, I want to play professionally or I want to go to the Olympics, whatever the thing is, keep going with it, don't just stop.

Dave:

Yeah, I can't. I can think of specific examples which we're going to wrap up here so I won't share. But I remember looking at each other going hey, remember when we only wanted, and it was something seemingly huge at the time, right?

Lauren:

Impossible at the time.

Dave:

Yeah, impossible at the time for us to go on on our five little five day getaway just me and you at the time seemed impossible. We had our little kids and we opened a new business and we had no money. All it was like that was the holy grail. And now that's just become our norm. We go every, every year and now it's like, okay, what's the next thing? So we're just layering and layering and layering. But that's the best part is, we can be super happy with what we have in our relationship but still shoot for more, which I think is fantastic. Any other, any other parts?

Lauren:

You've said it all.

Dave:

Well, thanks for sharing, thanks for hanging with us.

Lauren:

I'll be off the hot seat next time. Would you like to thank anybody? Yeah?

Dave:

Like to thank everybody. Thanks for listening, thanks for watching, thanks for coming along this journey with us. If you like this, please like, subscribe, share. If you're a mom, please join us. We have a free Facebook group and in this Facebook group, we share the tactics that we actually use working with our clients, and it's a fantastic place to get started.

Lauren:

Yeah, the main, the main piece there. It's an environment to be around people thinking like this and to have our coaches are all in there. Lauren's in there just to kind of drive conversation and push people to think, think a little bit deeper, and I know we always have a few moms that are ready to talk and take the next step. There's a link in the show notes to hop on the phone. Yeah, it's quick and easy. Learn a little bit about what we do.

Dave:

They get Thanks for listening, see you next time.