Caregiving Journey: Resilience, Mindfulness & Self-Care with Danae Robinett

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Danae Robinett, a seasoned yoga teacher and retreat leader, who generously shares her journey as a caregiver daughter. With 19 years of experience as a yoga teacher and 12 years as a retreat leader, Danae brings a wealth of wisdom and insight to her caregiving role.

Danae's caregiving journey began with her mother's battle with ovarian cancer, followed by caring for her father, a three-time cancer warrior, in 2017. Throughout the episode, Danae's positivity, resilience, and honesty shine through as she reflects on her caregiving experiences.

She shares heartfelt moments, like the last holiday spent with her mom, emphasizing the importance of being present and cherishing memories. Danae's remarkable relationship with her father is a testament to the power of laughter and open communication in caregiving.

Despite the challenges of caring for her father in a skilled nursing facility, Danae's commitment and love shine through. She candidly discusses the toll caregiving took on her, including the emotional weight and the importance of self-care.

One pivotal moment Danae shares is her realization of the necessity of caregiver support, symbolized by a caregiver manual she received but didn't read for years. She emphasizes the importance of not being hard on oneself and the value of seeking support and resources.

Throughout the episode, Danae explores the emotional complexities of caregiving, highlighting the importance of mindfulness practices like yoga and deep breathing. She shares the invaluable lessons she's learned from years of caregiving, including the necessity of prioritizing her own health and learning to put herself first.

Follow Danae's journey and explore her retreat offerings at DanaeRobinett.com/retreat.

Join us as Danae Robinett's journey of resilience, perseverance, and courage inspires and uplifts, reminding us of the transformative power of love and self-care in the caregiving journey.

Transcript

Caregiving Challenges and Resilience

Cathy 0:00

Well, hello, my friend, and welcome to another episode. I don't do very many interviews, but when I do an interview, they are darn darn good, and I have a really good one for you today, and this one is with Danae Robinett. Not only is she a yoga teacher and I think this is the first time we've had a yoga and a mindfulness practice teacher on. She's been doing this for 19 years. She does retreats and she's a caregiver. She cared for her mom until she lost her battle with ovarian cancer and she's been caregiving for her father since 2017, and she proudly calls him a three-time cancer warrior. But what I really find really going to be unique for you in this podcast, you're going to hear Danae's positivity, her resilience and her authenticity and honesty. She lost her mom and right before she lost her mom, they spent their last holiday together and she talks about caregiving as a present and she says it's not a shiny gift wrapped up, but being in the present with your loved one, and she takes those memories to this day as her gift, and I got goosebumps listening to that. She has this remarkable relationship with her dad and they use laughter with each other. Relationship with her dad and they use laughter with each other. They have great communication and she says her gift to him is when she's truly by his side and her dad is currently in a skilled nursing facility and she talks about what she's learned in the skilled nursing facility and I love the fact that you're going to get some education from her. She travels 70 miles to visit him and she says that she goes there, or she has been going there, each and every day, which has taken a toll on her. She also talks about this caregiving manual that she got when her dad was first starting his cancer treatments and she didn't look at it for three years because she thought that she knew everything she needed to know about caregiving. She didn't need to look at a manual until she looked at it and realized that there was a whole section about caring for the caregiver, which was so beneficial.

Cathy 2:25

Also, one really key takeaway that I highlighted and I do like these little sound bites or little video clips on my social media pages like Instagram and Facebook, and I'm going to capture this one she says caregivers, you know what you know and then you finally learn a little bit more and you try not to be hard on yourself, and she's referring to the mistakes, we just keep learning and finally making the mistake, and then we relearn and we relearn. And so when I talked about honest feelings too, she talks about her challenges. She talks about feelings and emotions. She talks about cancer pain is real, but emotional pain is even bigger and I was like, yes, and she talks about shifting the perspective.

Cathy 3:13

And then, when you listen three quarters of the way into the interview, you're going to hear her going through a mindfulness practice with me that I know you can take away. She talks about recognizing when your breasts are shallow and recognizing when your breasts are smooth and steady and being able to recognize those and doing mindfulness practices about it. And then stay with me until the end, because at the end I always ask my interviewers what have you learned from years and years of caregiving? And I would have thought something different from Danae, but I love the fact that she pulled it back together and was so honest, because she's still trying to prioritize her own health, and she says learning and relearning to put Denae first, and she shares what it looks like and how hard it is. Think about yourself, learning and relearning. To put yourself first is so hard. So, without further ado, let's jump into the interview with Denae.

Danae 4:33

Danae. Thank you, kathy. I'm so delighted to be here and in conversation with you and share whatever I can with your audience. So yes, I am Danae. It sounds like Renee. I'd love to say that because folks have always heard Renee. Danae is the name my mom picked out a long, long time ago. Even before she met my dad, she heard that name, so it has a lot of significance in our family, and I am a yoga teacher of 19 years and a retreat leader for 12. I'm my dad's caregiver. He's facing a third primary cancer, so we're navigating that now, and I'm based in the San Francisco Bay Area and I live with my fiance, and that's it. I think I'm ready to get going, though.

Cathy 5:22

Yeah, well, let's start out by talking about your caregiver experience, because most of us are caregiving and all of a sudden it just comes on suddenly and we are granted this extra title or extra load that we have to carry on your back. I know, based on what I've read and through our email conversations, that your caregiving started with was it your mom and your dad? Yes, yeah. So tell us about that and tell us that world, and you know how long you've been a caregiver.

Danae 5:57

Sure. So I'd say my first iteration this is a word we like to use when we talk about caregiving because there are seasons or iterations, or versions or variations and my mom was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, late stage I don't recall the number at this point, but you know pushing very close to four, I imagine, with all the parts that were removed and all the things that had to happen in her initial surgery and in 2005,. So I was at university and when we came into this awareness as a family, I said I'll move back home. I was out of state and my parents said that's ridiculous, but he was her primary caregiver and I flew back once a month as often as I could. I was in Arizona and they were in California, so it was an easy flight and I wanted to do that, but then she did pass in 2009.

Danae 6:51

Thankfully, we had her for four and a half years, really taught us what a present is. It's not a shiny wrapped box, it's really being in the moment with a person listening, laughing, crying, all those things. And you know, when she passed 831, 09, I thought I would just move right back home. And my dad is so smart. He said why don't you finish out the year and fulfill your obligations, because I had already been teaching yoga by then and establishing, you know, following students, all the things and, uh, I decided to move back in around Christmas. I believe I drove back like Christmas Eve and started being with him, moved into our home from 2010 onward wow, and thankfully at.

Danae 7:45

Thankfully, at that point, you know, we had a chance to grieve and be with one another, and so that was super helpful. There wasn't any caregiving going on. Maybe four or five years later into that, he had some cardiac events. So I supported him as best I could. But then it wasn't until 2017 when he was diagnosed with his initial cancer, and that was a stage four, definitely base of tongue cancer, and things move very fast and very quick Radiation chemotherapy no surgery was indicated. Interestingly enough, this institution where we got our care is Stanford, so they, when it's head and neck, they choose not to put a feeding tube in right away. They have the hope that perhaps the patient won't require it, but my father ended up needing it. He ended up being admitted to a hospital with a failure to thrive. Now, just like imagine this man who was 6'1", 250, you know, a bit chubby, we can say prior to cancer and at that point of being admitted to the hospital with the failure to thrive, he was about 137.

Cathy 9:04

Oh my gosh yes.

Danae 9:07

Wow, so really dramatic. And uh, you know, I was at his bedside my gift to give to him, truly to be there. Yeah, um, he got out of the hospital, ended up in a sniff, which is a skilled nursing facility, and those are some wild and crazy places. He didn't last there for 24 hours. Again, he had the feeding tube and we checked him in. I didn't know, I thought it was just a place to be. They hadn't even set him up with his feeding tube, and so I had to break them out of the sniff.

Cathy 9:47

Okay, because he didn't want to be there. Is that what it was he didn't want?

Danae 9:49

to be there. He didn't want to be there. So we ended up back at the hospital, still getting radiation, still getting chemotherapy, finally complete with the treatment, and ended up going to another sniff, which now I knew. So, caregivers out there, you know what you know and then you finally learn a little bit more and try your best to not be hard on yourself. I just took it for granted that a SNF would be a SNF and it would be a good place. But all things are not created equally.

Cathy 10:19

Isn't that amazing too, because yeah, you go in, and that amazing too, because, yeah, you go in. And and we've talked about this on the podcast so many times is that we have to learn as we go, we have to fail as we go and our poor loved ones have to go along this journey with us. But yeah, yes, oh, my goodness. So you did find them a better one. I found him a better one.

Danae 10:41

I actually went to it and you know, talk to the people and walk around and it seemed nice and clean and people were being cared for, although, make no mistake, sniffs and hospitals are totally different. Right, a nurse may have four patients per shift and a nurse in this, in a sniff, may have like 18 or 20 patients. Like the ratio with care is a lot.

Cathy 11:05

Yeah.

Danae 11:07

It's very skewed, right, yeah? And so that sniff happened to be 70 miles round trip from our home and I went there every day, my gift to give to him, to be there to watch him sleep, as he likes to say. But you know what? I've stepped away from all my yoga teaching, except for one opportunity. I thought this was the way to be and the way to do it, and you interestingly enough, stanford handed me a caregiver manual. Okay, good, in that time, july of 2017. And I kid you not, kathy, I did not read that manual until the third cancer diagnosis because I thought I'm not going to want to take care of my dad. I'll just do all the things make the appointments, crush the pills, make the food. Yeah, whatever needs to be done, I'm here for it. But it was really Many, many pages about caring for the caregiver.

Danae 12:01

It was good to hear that because very few few places give you it.

Cathy 12:08

I mean, I have my, my, my one for my husband's stem cell transplant and there is a little tab in there with two sheets for the caregiver in there.

Danae 12:20

It's so important, right? We don't think about it, we just kind of dive in, you know, head first and think, of course I'll say yes, I'll do all the things, I'll clear my schedule, I'll almost bury myself in all the work and effort that is required sometimes initially, um, but no, you absolutely have to care for yourself and eat well and all those things. So there were some scary points with that first cancer, you know. But thankfully he came out on the other side, you know, he I can recall a moment coming into the sniff and he was up and out of bed and seated in front of the mirror at the bathroom and he's bald, but he has like a little bit of hair and of course he had a santa beard prior to radiation and of course now it's like scraggly one or two hairs coming in and he was combing his hair and it seemed like the light had shifted you, he was ready to get a second chance and go forward. So nice, nice, yes.

Caregiving, Health, and Self-Care

Cathy 13:28

Yeah, nice Well, let's unpack. I want to unpack the thing that you had said. You talked about the gift that you give. You've used that piece many, many times, so I want to unpack that. And then I want to unpack when the light bulb went on, for you to start looking at that manual and looking at that caregiver guide. So let's first unpack that you talked about. I think that's such a great group of words. That you're saying is what gifts can you give to your loved one? And so, instead of everybody, everybody uses that, as I got to do this and I got to do that and I have to care and I'm exhausted, versus you're using it in such a positive light. So tell us about why you say that and what it does for you.

Danae 14:24

Yes, well, first of all, he's the last parent I have. My mom's already gone. Yeah, and uh, I like to say I get to do something, versus I have to, and you kind of hinted at that as you just went through that. Yeah, I get to do it, and it's an opportunity to just be side by side with someone in a most challenging time. Yeah, and learn Right, my dad's at 75. For we always forget our ages, him and me both we're 30 years apart, so it's okay. Yeah, so he's a walking history book. He has so many clever ways of looking at life and to be there and to have a download. That's so, so, so sweet, you know, and there are hard times. For sure we get through it with laughter, we act silly, we make jokes. He loves to rhyme.

Cathy 15:24

Oh, that's fun fun.

Danae 15:26

yes, he likes to read the badge of the nurse or the doctor and put their name in a in a rhyme or a poem oh, that's so cute.

Cathy 15:36

That's so cute. And those 70 miles that you traveled, you know. How did you sustain that? What did you do during that time? Do you have any recollection of that?

Danae 15:49

Oh, yes, for sure I have some hardcore PTSD situations. Yes, around certain dates, when he called for last rites, for instance, he had no faith going into it but my mom had been Catholic and so he thought he wanted to connect with her. So, yes, a priest came in and went through all the sacraments and that in and of itself was cathartic for him, because he's a Vietnam veteran and the priest that walked in the room was Vietnamese. So there was a lot of healing that went on in that regard as well, and a lot of softness and tenderness.

Danae 16:28

Yeah, um, yes. So the 70 miles? Sure, I did it wrong in the beginning by Denae. I mean, right, I just um, either didn't eat Cause I felt like, oh, he's got a feeding tomb and he can't eat, so I'm going to like not eat, or something whatever, I'm just going to drink coffee and get myself there, or then I would start eating, cause that's not sustainable, and then I would grab food from poor choice places.

Cathy 16:58

I'm so guilty of it too. It's like ditto, ditto, ditto. Oh my gosh.

Danae 17:02

Yeah, and it's true, right, because we're always putting the other person first and to a certain extent, that is so vital and important. And yet my father would be the first to say, no, you have to put the naive first, and that's a lesson that I would consider a gift. To be the caregiver is that I get to keep be reminded of that, that, yes, I have this role and this beautiful duty to serve my father in that way, but also by doing that, it means I get to take good care of Danae as well, so I can be around, so my health can be well and good.

Cathy 17:41

Yeah, yes, I think sometimes we have to hit that bad rock bottom place of not taking care of ourselves to really wake us up and realize it. I mean, when you were saying, yeah, not eating, because my, my dad and mom were about an hour and a half to two hours just depending on how heavy my foot was when I went and visited them and I was the same way, I would be eating so bad in the car and caffeinating and all that kind of stuff. And then after a while you realize that you're just not healthy anymore and you can't sustain that anymore and what you're fortunate about is your dad is such a gift to you and realize that and not saying that my parents weren't, but my parents didn't notice or I didn't share it. I masked it really well and I had to wake up myself and do it. So, yeah, that's interesting, very interesting. So tell us I'm so interested in the tactical piece of that caregiver manual.

Danae 18:58

I know I wish I had it so I could refer to it. It's at his house actually.

Cathy 19:03

Because very few laces do that. So Stanford gave that to you during.

Danae 19:10

was it during like his, his cancer treatments or his yeah, so they had a tumor board meeting, so it was on July 6th, and I remember that because it would have been on a certain day, but that day fell on July 4th, which was the holiday. So they pushed it to the sixth and again they moved so fast, like on the 26th of June he had the biopsy and and I think let me just do a little backup real quick, just so as a stress and important point for caregivers, for the ones we're caring for, the advocacy piece my dad had been dismissed for a couple of years in terms of his concern, before we got referred to Stanford. So he was going to a community clinic and they always told him he was having an acid reflux, even though he had a concern about he called it the throat, you know, it truly was the base of the tongue, and so he would let it go. And then he'd have these concerns and he'd ask and they keep referring him to this diagnosis as a reflux.

Danae 20:18

no symptoms for it though, um and so thankfully, you know, and I think about it it like, because men typically don't want to go to the doctor- like this is so great that he actually was persistent in in knowing his body and trusting his body and saying no, something is wrong, I think something is wrong, I think something's growing. And then finally he used the c word, the cancer word, and that's when things got a little serious and we got that referral and that doctor, which I consider a King. He looked right in my dad's mouth and said yes, you are right, you have cancer. I still have to do the biopsy and I'm sorry that you are right. You know cause my dad didn't want to be right. It's not about being right, but it's about being cared for appropriately. Right because you don't start out of the gate with stage four. It takes a while to grow and form in the body and build. So just a quick moment to have that, if you have that inkling. Yeah, you have a concern. Ask questions, be, have them, repeat things. It's okay.

Cathy 21:23

Persistency yes.

Danae 21:24

Persistency, yes, yes, yeah. And knowing your body and trusting that you know that about yourself, patient or caregiver, right? So I got, I got on a segue, but I feel like that's important, that's all right. That's good yeah.

Cathy 21:41

Yeah. So when when you went then and he got the biopsy and then his, they obviously came up with a treatment plan and they handed you that binder you had said I'm yeah.

Danae 21:54

I said, okay, that's great, and I put it on the floor and I just went about my business.

Cancer Care and Mindfulness With Yoga

Cathy 21:58

You know what I call that. You know what I call that, and I've been listening to Mel Robbins a lot and it's like it's a false confidence. We have this false confidence that we can do it all and we don't need to go ahead and we'll figure it out as we go. But what made you pull that book, that binder, back out?

Danae 22:18

So the second cancer was in the lacrimal sac, which is to the eye geez um. So that was just surgery reconnection of uh tissue and so on and so forth, and no chemo, no radiation, thank goodness, um, so it was very. It was like a blip compared to like stage four, this situation, which is incredibly rare in the, in the literature, I mean, it says that in the black and white lacrimal sac tumor it wasn't until July of 2023. They were in 24, 23.

Cathy 22:55

I hear you.

Danae 22:56

The prostate cancer diagnosis. And, interestingly enough, for a year it's hard with the COVID time, right, because everything is a blur. For a year it's hard with the COVID time, right, because everything is a blur. But at least for a year, maybe more, we were pushing to be seen by a urologist, oncologist, because, again, my father had a concern, an inkling.

Danae 23:15

He had already been right once before and really wanting to be wrong this time as well. But and I had to really push and ask questions and they only do things certain ways and well, we got them to do something a totally different way to find the answer. And it actually can be done, because we know this in medicine, we know this in life there's always more than one way to do something.

Cathy 23:37

Definitely.

Danae 23:39

So then I was like, oh yeah, I think I have a manual and maybe now's the time to read it and flip through it. Yeah, and so some of the things I recall, interestingly enough, were about how much a caregiver misses out on wealth creation, basically like we are working so hard in service to our loved one that we're caring for that there's missed opportunity for career. Or even thinking about finances or you pouring in your own funds to fund the care or the prescriptions or the additional treatments or support that might be needed physical therapy, medical equipment, all the things. And of course, it mentioned all of these support groups which I did tap into with the initial cancer the head and neck patient and also caregiver support group. And head and neck cancers usually mainly men are the ones that's just to get it for some reason. Um, so it was a lot of men, you know, which is fine, uh, and then myself and sometimes some wives would join the the call on zoom. Um, that's not my dad's thing to do that, okay.

Danae 25:02

But, I found it very helpful.

Cathy 25:05

So helpful, what, what? What was helpful about it?

Danae 25:08

Well, for me it was helpful to see that my dad is not the only one dealing with this, that or the other thing.

Cathy 25:17

Okay.

Danae 25:18

And my dad is not the only one who is also not compliant with this strategy or this approach that's been handed down by the doctor. Okay, I can have a little more patience around it. Yes, who wants to do baking soda rinses six times a day? Probably nobody right To clean the mouth. But there's a reason they suggest these things, because they have benefit and value. No-transcript, you know, I know that I'm not alone, but when you're in the thick of it, it sure as hell feels like it.

Cathy 26:01

Hard on my French, yeah no, and then there's probably things that we all feel together that nobody says out loud, but when you're in a support group somebody says it. You're like thank you for saying this.

Danae 26:19

Yes, you know Naming it.

Cathy 26:21

Yes, yes, I mean simple things. When I was in support groups, it was like I miss my friends or I miss my you know, like you had said, you miss your career, you miss your you know hobbies, whatever it would be, and you're missing out on things and you're mad you're jealous. You're jealous of people doing something you know, and so when you hear that you, you just don't feel like you're alone. Yeah, I think, that's a big one, cool.

Danae 26:52

Yes, and I I love that. You said mad or you know you're missing out. There's so many emotions right around it. You know if we're going to get really real. A lot of times people ask are you the only child tonight? And I say no, I have a brother and he lives on the East Coast. And they go, oh yeah you know, and and he comes when he can.

Danae 27:21

Yeah, you know he, he is not a yoga teacher, he's a lawyer, so he has the financial means, but he's also a lawyer and a parent and so life is full for him. I get that. Of course we'd want to see him more often than he does come around, but yeah, that that part's kind of hard Sometimes.

Cathy 27:41

Family dynamics are so hard, it's so hard and it's not one size fits all and right. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I've had similarities, because I have two siblings as well, and the dynamics have been just extremely different. You know, and you know, you just you just have to do what you have to do. I think there's always going to be somebody that takes the primary care spot. Yes, and they're going to be the primary one. Whether it's fair or not, whether it's good or not, we just do it. It takes a special type of person too, like you, you, to go ahead and do that. But yeah, it's interesting because some people can be very resentful during that time, and I just did a free workshop on this a few weeks ago and if you hang on to that resentment throughout your caregiving, it does you no good, right, it's just, it would just eat away at you as well.

Danae 28:47

Agreed.

Cathy 28:47

Yeah.

Danae 28:48

And I've had some waves of that, you know, back and forth from time to time, because it's been a while, you know, since 2017, now to 2024. Yeah, but you're right, If you hold onto that, it's only hurting you and potentially my dad, the care, the one I'm caring for but it definitely would hurt me as the individual. Holding that resentment and that's part of yoga is like learning to accept things as they are. You know, know. And also to learn how to manage your reactivity and your responses. Right to be always aware of your breath, which is like the perfect indicator for how things are going on. If you're taking smooth, steady breaths, ah, peaceful vibes. Right.

Cathy 29:35

If you're okay taking in shorter, shallower breaths you're sitting in traffic or you are having that challenging conversation, got to notice the breath and it'll help you, yeah, since you brought this topic up, this is perfect to talk about because, like I said, we've never had a person talking about mindfulness practices on here, and I think your yoga experience would be something that I think that my listeners would be very open to and want to hear about. If they're considering a practice like yoga or meditation or anything mindfulness, tell us what the benefits are, how we could include that into our, our daily routine, and why you know, so that would be helpful.

Danae 30:27

Sure.

Danae 30:28

So I'm biased, of course. I think the benefits are tremendous. Right, and the beauty of yoga is that it meets you as you are. Truly. I believe that wholeheartedly, no matter your stage in life, your age, your size, your shape, your shade, none of that matters. Yoga meets you as you are.

Danae 30:51

If, for some reason, you walk into a class and you don't feel welcome, or the teacher something, something, please say to yourself. That was that I'm going to give it one more try, cause then he says give it one more try and I guarantee it'll be for you. You've got to find the right teacher for you and the right type of class, cause there are classes that move a little faster and they build sweat and heat. There are classes that are super slow and relaxing, and you'll find the one that's going to be best for you. And maybe certain times of the day you want this, certain times of the season you want that. There's so much to be had with yoga. Okay, even yoga can be done seated in a chair, all right. I've worked with people of all ages. We used to call the class ageless yoga, and so not just for anyone with gray hair necessarily. Could be someone rehabilitating an injury, could be someone just wanting to experience yoga seated, because you can do a lot of things seated. Yoga seated, because you can do a lot of things seated. Uh, so one of the best things about yoga is it's a journey about yourself, learning about your potential, what's possible in the body, right and and building that out and building strength, not only physical strength, but also emotional strength. When I think back to when we learned about my mom's diagnosis in 2005, it was July, but the month prior actually, that's when I had committed to my first initial yoga teacher training program in Sedona for a month and I lived for 30 days in Sedona yoga, yoga for 20 am till 7 pm at night, and I got so strong physically and also emotionally, and then came back to California and we learned this news about our family and things shifted and changed. I'm so grateful. Yoga just wrapped me up in a great big embrace.

Release Stress With Mindfulness and Gratitude

Danae 32:53

So will you become flexible? Yes, in the body. However, you'll also gain flexibility in your mind, which I think is even more valuable. Yeah, yes, yes. And meditation there's so much science and data about it, how it's so beneficial for relieving and releasing stress. You know we have thoughts right inside the mind and the goal of meditation is not to wipe it clean necessarily. It's to become one with a thought and also notice like, do you need that thought right now? It could fall back to the back of the mind like the clouds drift back and forth. You're not reaching and grabbing onto the clouds, so you don't need to reach and grab onto the thought. Just put it to the side. You know, focus on the breath or there's usually a prompt that's given with meditation and then, when it's over, maybe you don't actually need that thought anymore. Well, that's unimportant.

Cathy 33:50

Yeah, let's use something like okay, let's say I have a negative thought and I'm from a caregiver perspective and I have so much worry in my mind and in my body and I cannot get rid of it, and so when I would go ahead and do a yoga practice, can you walk me through what that would do for me? Sure, let's say I'm worried, worried, worried. And actually I am worried. My husband has his. He had his PET scan yesterday and now on Friday we get the results to see if his immune therapy is working or holding his cancer at bay. And so the worry this week. It's just crazy. It's just your mind, your negative space or your negative part of your brain wants to just kind of keep feeding, feeding on what if what if?

Cathy 34:42

what if?

Danae 34:43

all the bad stuff. I know, I hear it, I hear it. Well, I want to fully acknowledge that because that's real and that's and that's not to be like discarded. However, this comes from my dad. He likes to say flush it, okay, okay. So when we think about what we flush, it's also in the word flush it. I love it, I love it.

Danae 35:13

Let's keep it G rated. We got it right, we picked it up, we're smart, right, but we don't reach out and grab onto it, we don't put it to our nose, we flush. Now the worry. I am the first worry wart, but you'll ever meet, okay. But at a certain point you've got to decide is this worry serving me? Because I can have the thought and I can have the feeling and those are real, but how much worry is really serving me? So I think I'd like to offer a couple of things to you, kathy, since you asked. This is specific to you. If it feels good to you to place your hands on your heart, you could. You can do this, eyes open or closed, or have a soft gaze lower the eyelids and feel your heart, and you can even say to yourself I, I feel so worried. Yes, I do, I am worried. I am worried, but I'm gonna take a deep breath in and I'm gonna sigh and I'm gonna do it two more times, one more.

Cathy 36:36

My second sigh was better than my first.

Danae 36:40

Yes, nice.

Cathy 36:42

Yeah, it was, it was. It was a lot relaxed, but the first side was really choppy.

Danae 36:49

That's normal.

Cathy 36:50

Yeah.

Danae 36:52

And that you could even like lift the shoulders right Cause that's what we do too when we're so stressed and we're worried we've got new earrings on, they're called shoulders and then let it go, create space between the ears and the neck and then shrug them up and down and if you like the audible exhale you can do it.

Danae 37:13

Making sound is uh, it's also very releasing and relieving. Okay, good, good, one more. And then I would take the arms wide, reach them out wide, horizontal, and then just cross the right arm on top of the left and hold the shoulders and I call this the hug, because it feels good to give and receive a hug and you might hold the shoulders, you might back it up and actually hold the upper arm, if that feels better to you. You might even wrap and hold onto the shoulder blades at the back. So there's a couple of ways to do it and then switch, so wide arms to reach out, and then the left on top, and it could be different from side one to two, and whenever it's different, there's always a chance to be a lot more compassionate for the self when there's a little asymmetry in the body, because we know that's true, nature is rich in asymmetry. So we are as well a little asymmetrical, good, and then release Nice.

Cathy 38:29

Nice, ah, mm-hmm, it's just finding a way to let that go, you know, and I think releasing it is the big thing. And I think, with all negative thoughts, I think that you have to and I've always, I've always and tell me if I'm wrong or not. I've always tried to say I need to distract my mind, but what you're saying is, you also can flush it.

Danae 38:59

Yes, after you've been with it for a bit, you know, like you, have to understand it. It's. It's very normal and natural to have a. That's where human we have this wide range of emotions and feelings and experiences. It's it's the decision to how long you're going to stay in it. Yes, right, like I can ask the question why that happened to my mom. Why is my father now one, two and three times having primary cancers? What is the lesson? What are we learning here? Why my family, and you know that's getting me nowhere.

Cathy 39:38

Right, you can feel yourself getting upset and tense.

Danae 39:42

Yes, exactly, so I can have that thought and concern, but then at a certain point I have to discard it and put it to the side, put it in the basket. Maybe I'll go back to it later. Yeah, the proverbial basket. Chances are no, because it's not helping. So that's when the flesh it comes into play.

Cathy 40:00

Yes, Right, let it go that I'm going to your. Your dad's going to be in my talks for a while now. Every time. I'm in the bathroom and I'm flushing it. I'm going to look at it and like what else can I flush today?

Danae 40:11

Yes, yes, it's. I look forward to hearing from you about how it serves you. Flush it, yes, even when you're doing the breath and you're holding your heart. You can say on exhalation I am releasing just the statement or fill in the blank. Complete the sentence. I am releasing the stress of the results from the PET scan.

Cathy 40:34

Right, right, well, thank you. I think that's going to be beneficial for anybody that's listening to this, because I think that I think what I've been hearing from you too is the the mindfulness practice doesn't have to go ahead and be a formal class all the time either. It can be things that you do. Can you get the breathing and, and that exercise is one way. Do you have you done anything else besides that as a caregiver, to help you through? What does Danae do to help kind of keep that stress at bay and keep that your well-being intact?

Danae 41:17

Yes. So two things come to mind. One is I have a background in dance and I love to dance. Dance in this kitchen, dance with my sweetheart when he's willing he's very shy dance in the grocery aisle If the song comes on and it moves me, and I don't care who's watching if I'm dancing that kind of thing.

Danae 41:37

Yes, I wish more people could just feel the rhythm and move. And there's no right or wrong way to move. Just move your body, have a sense of fun and play with it. You know, almost childlike, be curious.

Danae 41:49

Uh, another one is gratitude. Yeah Right, and I get this from my dad because he so sincerely says you know, if he wakes up, it's a good day. Yeah, if he gets to go outside, like, leave the house, medical appointment, walgreens, what have you, it's a better day, it's a great day. And then sometimes he'll say if he gets to see a pretty girl, then it's the best day. But again, he likes to bring people to a laughter state or joy. So that's another thing is bringing joy to people and also expressing gratitude. And there's, I mean, even when you're in the throes of the caregiving, even when it's so scary and unknown and there's so much uncertainty waiting on results, that's, you know, pins and needles feeling there is a, there is something to be grateful for. You've got to look for it, you got to really pay close attention and say it out loud, or write it yeah.

Cathy 42:56

When I was, when my, when I was in the midst of caregiving, when my spouse and my dad were in chemotherapy chairs at the same time, I decided I had to go ahead and really work on my gratitude practice and I journaled five things that I was grateful for every single day, and they couldn't be just basic things like my kids or my family. They had to be things. One thing that I'm grateful for this morning was I was walking my two fur babies. They're big dogs and we saw these tiny little ducklings that were just walking across the grass and my two fur babies were just really excited. But again, those, just those simple things to say.

Cathy 43:42

Like your dad, I got out and I get to go to Walgreens today, or I love how he looks at a name tag and he starts rhyming with it you have to find whatever it is for you or it's. You found some scented soap that you love, that's organic, and you're now using it, whatever it would be, and I think that's what we, as caregivers, have to go ahead and dig deep into as well. Okay, this has just been so fun talking about all of this. I have like a few rapid fire questions that'll kind of help us go full round. What have you learned, danae, from your years and years of caregiving about yourself that you never thought you would really learn? What are some of those silver lining things that you've really learned about yourself? Because I can hear it in you and I can pinpoint what they are, and I think I'm going to see if you come up with what I came up with.

Prioritizing Self-Care and Setting Boundaries

Danae 44:43

So, yes, Well, one of the things that comes to mind is how important it is to prioritize my own health, which I do struggle with, you know. In fact, we this is a recent conversation with my dad and I. He really wants me to go and get seen and be seen about a certain thing and, um, uh, you know I just said it's just so. It's like a full-time job managing all of your things and your appointments, and I can't even consider doing, uh, my own self, and you know we just had to laugh because that's such an excuse and so silly. Of course I need to, you know, get my stuff together and get it in order. So, choosing to put the health piece at the top of the list, you know, making time for that, and also learning and relearning and learning again. To put Denae first, this is something I struggle with but I get better at and then I kind of fall off track and then I go again and try to be better about it. What does that?

Cathy 45:49

look like. If you had to envision what the best version of Denae putting herself first looks like, what would it look like?

Danae 46:00

Honestly, kathy, it would be saying no when I actually mean no.

Cathy 46:04

I just wrote that down is like, what is like, what are some of those healthy boundaries?

Danae 46:09

Yeah, yes, boundaries yes. And for me, I try to convince myself that I want to always say yes to my dad, and I've told him this. He knows, because it's limited, there'll be a time when I won't be able to say anything. So I always want to say yes, I always want to take the call, I always want to be able to, and it's unfortunately to my detriment. And he's the first one to say yeah, let it go to voicemail, call me back, or he has this phrase put up the hand. You know, put the hand up and say not now, dad. Yeah, yeah.

Cathy 46:50

I was the same way with my mom. My mom and I were really really close and I was so burned out from being there and wanting to be with her all the time. But I couldn't be and it was, it was at a cost. But again back to what, what, what? That best version of yourself looked like. You said, saying no, but what would it physically look like and mentally look like? For you?

Danae 47:17

Oh so good. Yeah, Physically I um well, I do quite a bit of yoga. I do yoga every day for myself. I would like to walk more. I do a lot of driving, so I don't get as many steps in as I wish I could get in with daily consistency. Sure, you know, going for massage is my medicine and I'd like to get that in a more regular, consistent path as well.

Cathy 47:49

Yeah, good, good, yes, good, yeah, good and yeah, and I think that's what it is. What? Where is your expectations? Where is your realistic expectations for yourself? You know you said you don't, you don't. You have to learn to say no. But if you had to have realistic expectations, what would that look like for you and your dad?

Danae 48:15

Is it?

Cathy 48:17

meeting him so many times a week. Is it having a call every day? What is it? Is it?

Danae 48:23

Oh, we do talk every day, yes, and I am there four or five times a week. I live about 50 miles away, but I have to cross a bridge and it's Bay Area traffic, so it's at least an hour one way, if not longer.

Cathy 48:38

That's a lot for you.

Danae 48:41

It is. It is. Thanks for saying that, yeah, cause I just kind of take it for granted, but it is a lot. Yeah, I I've started to get better at this where I may have said I am going to come on this day, but then I wake up and I go you know what? I need a day and I'm taking it, and you know, my fiance is thrilled and my father is also overjoyed that I'm choosing it and I'm like but then I go, okay, yes, I have their support and yes, it is right, I deserve that, I need that, it's okay.

Cathy 49:13

It's okay, good, yes, yes, I had to do. I had to with my mom because I was always over there and I was like 15 minutes away, and so it's like for you it's like this is like cool. But I said to my mom I'm like we have to figure out something better, because I have my husband, I'm caring for, I'm working my full-time job, I need to, I need Kathy time. And so we decided on we, I would. I would FaceTime her or call her every day. And then we had Sunday fun day which was a day where we did something fun.

Cathy 49:48

We picked a fun place, maybe we went to the botanical gardens or we went shopping or whatever, and we had a fun day and I did all of her other administrative things too. But we kind of clumped it into one fun day and we went to festivals and stuff like that. She looked so forward to that. She had a kick in her step like by Saturday. She couldn't wait. Where are we going, kathy? And I'm like what's your turn to pick? You have to pick something, so start researching and looking, and then it would fill her up for a few days afterwards too. But obviously she wasn't in a situation where your dad is in, where you know, at the very beginning. Obviously she got sick later down the road. But we had a year of Sunday fun days, which was really fun, so just trying to be creative as well.

Danae 50:37

So I like that. I like that. I might propose that to my dad. He's always very simple about what he wants to do or not do so which is really nice, though that it's really nice.

Cathy 50:53

what I'm really understanding for you and I think that I don't know if you've had this before, but this is my inkling is you have a good communication chain with your dad.

Danae 51:03

I do. Do you always have that? Yes, yes, I'm so blessed, kathy, that both of my parents were so loving and supportive and I always thought of my mom as my cheerleader and my number one friend. And then when she passed, it's like she passed the baton to my dad and he totally stepped into that and he has always said I can give you the perspective from being your father, from being the random man on the street or a friend, nice, nice. It is so nice and I acknowledge not everyone has that or has experienced that, but I I'm so grateful that we do have that rapport and those clear communication. I think it makes the caregiving much easier.

Cathy 51:51

Well, and you're explaining to him how you feel and where you're feeling like your tank is going empty, versus you know them not understanding it Because so many times with caring for aging parents, they don't see that when you say I need time for myself to recharge or refuel, they see that as oh, you don't care anymore and yes, yeah, thankfully.

Danae 52:20

No, that's not the case at all. Just such a gift.

Cathy 52:23

It is such a gift.

Danae 52:25

It is a gift. In fact, it would be the opposite.

Danae 52:27

He would want me to go and he can see when I'm, like, checked out of the building or you know, when I'm so burnt out like, hey, maybe you could go lay down, you know, cause I have a bedroom upstairs in the house. Maybe you could go lay down and take a DNA nap. You know, and I don't resist it as much anymore Initially I would because I'd be like patient and he's telling me to go lay down. That sounds crazy. And yet I mean, cancer pain is real, absolutely, but emotional pain is also real and the stress and the worry and the concern about his life and the balance. There's something to be said about that. So no, thankfully he can read it. He can see it in my face with his one eye. That works because he's legally blind in the left side.

Danae 53:20

The gift from radiation, no doubt although they don't want to take credit for it, but you know, one optic nerve does not look like the other.

Cathy 53:28

Darn, darn, darn.

Danae 53:29

Darn yeah.

Lessons in Caregiving Resilience and Gratitude

Cathy 53:31

When you look back and I don't want this to sound morbid, but I want. This is. My last question is when you look back at this caregiver life, or even when your mom, when you were caregiving for your mom, what are you most proud of?

Danae 53:49

Oh well, for my mom, one of the things that comes to mind immediately was and you know, we're caregivers so we understand medical stuff and body fluids and all that Um, and I don't know if this happens with, uh, a lot of ovarian cancer patients, but for my mom she had to have an ileostomy bag.

Cathy 54:11

Oh, my goodness Okay.

Danae 54:12

So a lot of her colon was removed in her initial debulking surgery to remove the, you know, the grapefruit size and beyond tumor that was in her body. Uh, and so when she, you know, was moved from ICU to recovery, the nurse came in and started doing the tutorial about it and she didn't know that that was going to be a possibility. Going in it was like rush surgery, we're doing this now. Uh, so she had no awareness and then all of a sudden this device is attached to her belly and the nurse was like going through it and my mom was like rolling her eyes and she was, of course, disgusted and you know, probably still in shock and still in shock and having all the effects of medicine and and I was like, oh my God, the nurse just like pause.

Danae 55:11

If you think this is cool, you should consider a career in medicine, which is hilarious, Cause my mom always called me her dancing scientist.

Cathy 55:18

Okay.

Danae 55:20

And from that moment, like, slowly but surely, we got her to shift and be like yeah, this is a new way to poop. Yeah, this is the way that you've got to poop, literally. So get on board with it, and we're here to help as best we can and we will do the things as much as we need to, but also you've got to learn, unfortunately, how to do this too. Yeah, yes, so shifting the perspective that's a really colorful example, but like shifting the perspective from one way to a different way.

Cathy 55:51

Yeah, shifting the way, yeah, that's a big one, I think that's. I think if I look back at some of my journeys too it's you have to force yourself to shift your perspective and look at things from a glass half full, or the positives of it as well.

Danae 56:08

Yes, the uplifting side, yes, and for my dad, oh gosh, I'm sure there's so many nothing's coming to mind immediately. I think that when he got to the second sniff and I remember it was nine one, because on 8, 31, that was the day my mom passed he he opted to have two radiations that day, so he would be done on nine one, which was a friday, because then that monday was going to be a labor day and and he is such a negotiator he convinced the oncologist to do that because he didn't want to skip Monday and then have to come back Tuesday and get zapped again.

Cathy 56:47

Okay.

Danae 56:48

Okay, so he had the two on the 31st and then the one on the September 1st and that's when we went to the second sniff, ended up in the ER. I had, like I've never had a labor with birthing a child. But I was awake for about 36 hours with him from that final radiation at 6 30 AM, waiting, meeting him still in the hospital, then discharged, taking him to the sniff him not liking it Cause it was so hot, but of a different, not liking it.

Danae 57:17

And then ending up in the ER er, getting out of the er in the middle of the day, middle of the morning, spending most of the afternoon with him calling for last rights. I think that my capacity to just be there and just do what was needed, that's, that's the takeaway there. Like there are times when you have to just just pull up your big pants and do it.

Cathy 57:42

Yeah. And then you look back at it and you're just like I never knew I had that in me, but I guess I do. You have that resilience and that strength to do what? You need to do.

Danae 57:54

Yes.

Cathy 57:55

And you should be proud of that. You should be very, very proud of that. Well, this has been just a phenomenal piece. Tell us a little bit more about if people, can people reach out to you, can people follow you? I mean, obviously, we can't all come to the Bay Area and take your yoga classes, which I wish I was closer so I could go ahead and see you but yeah, tell us where we can find you. I know you do leader retreats as well and you're definitely into the mindfulness practices.

Danae 58:29

Yes, yes, I welcome anyone to reach out to me about yoga or just to dish about caregiving why not? My favorite social media platform is Instagram. Okay, I love creating the reels. I think they. They're fun. I hope you'll think they're fun too. Uh, so, instagram, follow me there or send me a dm and let me know you listened to the episode and what was a takeaway for you.

Cathy 58:54

I'd be so thrilled to hear from you in front of you yes and then I'll put all your information in the show notes as well.

Danae 59:01

Oh, perfect, brilliant. Yeah, it's my name. Denise Robinette is my handle, okay? And then you can connect with me on my website, also, denise Robinettecom. I do take folks on retreat, so that's one way to get a little bit of yoga in. We are going to the Galapagos in 2025. And I have a retreat that's coming next month to Santa Fe, and then I offer private yoga support, mainly in person. I do have a couple of clients that live out of state, so we meet on a platform like FaceTime or Zoom, so that's possible too Wonderful.

Danae 59:35

Wonderful.

Cathy 59:36

Well, it's just been such a pleasure meeting with you and sharing and hearing your story and finding out some similarities, but I think the most impactful piece for me was the actual yoga or mindfulness practice, the very simple version of it. It just releasing that worry. So, thank you very, very much. What did you think? Wasn't that a great interview? What was your key takeaways? I would love to hear them. There were so many key takeaways. Remember, I have that text feature so you can text me and when I get a text, I'm going to review those next week in the episode. So if you want me to repeat something or share a moment with the rest of the audience, I can actually do that with you. There were so many.

Prioritize Self-Care and Mindfulness Inspiration

Cathy 1:00:26

What did you think about the mindfulness breathing activity, where I talked about my worry and how we went ahead and talked about what is worry doing for me and is it serving me, and we did some deep breaths and sighs and that sort of thing. Or did you love her statement that her dad practices? He talks about flushing it and you literally think about flushing the toilet. There is something, too, that she talked about, and she always talked about the gratitude and something to be grateful for and how she continues to practice that Find whatever it is for you and going ahead and doing that. I love the fact that her dad, in the most challenging times of his life, looks at a simple name tag and does a rhyme with the name tag, because that's what he grabs. Remember when I used to talk about going ahead and trying to look for hearts when you're going for a walk? Well, her dad is doing that with being in a skilled nursing facility.

Cathy 1:01:31

So I hope you enjoyed the episode. Don't forget to follow Danae on her Instagram page if you want some more inspiration. I also ask that you go ahead and take a moment and give this podcast episode a five star if you liked what you hear, because there's not very many interviews that I do, because I'm very selective about who I want to come on, and this one was so remarkable. Until next time, think about how you're going to prioritize yourself and how you might go ahead and take some of those deep breaths and mindfulness practices from Danae and going ahead and using those in yours. Have a good rest of the week, my friend, and we will go ahead and see you again next Tuesday. Bye for now.