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Talking Texas History
Talking Texas History
The Symbols of Texas with Bill O'Neal
In this episode, Gene and Scott get ready to hear students interview the esteemed former State Historian of Texas, Bill O'Neal. A noted storyteller, Bill shares his lifelong passion for Texas history and talks about Texas symbols. Tune in for engaging anecdotes about Texas traditions and gain a renewed appreciation for the symbols that shape the Lone Star State.
This podcast is not sponsored by and does not reflect the views of the institutions that employ us. It is solely our thoughts and ideas, based upon our professional training and study of the past.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Talking Texas History, the podcast that explores Texas history before and beyond the Alamo. Not only will we talk Texas history, we'll visit with folks who teach it, write it, support it, and with some who've made it and, of course, all of us who live it and love it. I'm Scott Sosbeck and I'm Gene Preuss, and this is Talking Texas History. Welcome to another edition of Talking Texas History. I'm Gene Preuss. Welcome to another edition of Talking Texas History. I'm Gene Preuss and I'm Scott Sosner. Scott, today we have a special treat in store, at least for you and me.
Speaker 1:A treat for us, because you know what somebody told me one time? That delegation is the better part of leadership right.
Speaker 2:And so we've done kind of delegation. What we've done is we've got people to do work for us, haven't we? That's right. So I assigned students in a Texas history course this is an honors Texas history course. This past spring I had them do some interviews and we're going to hear some of those interviews throughout the next few months. Today we have a special one former state historian of Texas, bill O'Neill.
Speaker 1:Bill, no doubt no more. He is Bill's a great storyteller. He's a great Texas historian. I think our listeners will get a big treat from listening to Bill.
Speaker 2:So they're going to talk about. They asked Bill to talk about symbols of Texas and he goes through a long list and so we're going to hear this and they talk about a couple of other things. So I've asked my students, roberto and Anthony, to interview Bill O'Neill, and so let's go ahead and listen in.
Speaker 1:Let's look forward to hearing it, hi Good morning.
Speaker 4:Good morning. Good morning, all right, let's start forward to hearing it retired. Taught in the classroom for 40-something years, taught Texas history for over 30 years at least one class every semester, and I served as state historian of Texas. I was appointed by Governor Perry in 2012, and I served a six-year tenure and I write a lot of history books. I have written 57 so far, anyway, and I've got four daughters, and they're all in the field of education too.
Speaker 3:Quite the extensive background in Texas history.
Speaker 4:Well, I hope so. I've been crazy about it ever since I was a little boy. I've been crazy about it ever since I was a little boy. Texas history is taught beginning in the fourth grade. And when I was in the fourth grade I was attending Sam Houston Elementary School in Corsican, Texas, and my parents took me to Huntsville and showed me a lot of the Sam Houston stuff and then they took me to the San Jacinto Monument and I got to go up there and have been returning ever since for various programs and such, and during that same period I also got to see the Alamo and Mission San Jose. I did a traveling Texas history course which was the first one in the state. For credit it was a three-hour credit. We had a 2,100-mile field trip all across the state. So I've got a pretty good background in Texas history. Love it, it's been a passion of mine.
Speaker 3:How long did the trip take, the three-hour trip?
Speaker 4:It was the trip, the field trip part. Now we were in the classroom just a few days, but the field trip was 2,100 miles, seven days, six nights. Two of the nights were camping. We camped out in Big Bend and also in the Davis Mountains. The whole idea of that course was to experience Texas history and so in the course of that field trip we went to every place you can imagine every kind of landmark, battlefields, missions, forts, everything I could squeeze in in a seven-day period. It was a seven day period, it was. It was. It was very educational experience and I did it twice. I did it twice a semester, for I mean, excuse me, twice a summer for a little over 20 years. So I conducted about 40 plus of those traveling Texas history field trips, plus of those traveling Texas history field trips, very extensive, and I'm pleased to say that a number of schools tried to copy us. There were other schools that heard about it and four-year schools even and they tried to do their own version of that Still proud to say you're the original.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, man, Ours was the original. It was the best you bet. I'm glad you figured that out.
Speaker 3:Are there any Texas State symbols that?
Speaker 4:hold historical significance. Oh, my goodness, yes, of course you have to start with the Lone Star, our nickname of it, the lone star flag, or something. The outline of Texas is a favorite bracelet charm for a lot of people, and so sure, yeah, the lone star, you have to start with that. Then the Alamo is next, of course.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 4:There are symbols of the Alamo, the facade of the famous old church. You know that's the one, and again that's used for a bracelet symbol and for, you know, for a lapel pin. I have a longhorn lapel pin. My goodness, the Texas longhorn. Golly, you've got to have that. And so I have that. And in fact, right here in my room, above the entrance to this room, I have a set of Longhorns that are just a little over six feet wide, and so sure you've got to have those. I did some graduate school at the University of Texas and loved those longhorns from that time on. And then, by the way, when I mentioned the longhorns and certainly that is a very identifiable state symbol of Texas, let's don't forget. Now, the longhorn is a large mammal. But what about our small mammal? Well, you know we have the nine-banded armadillo, and so an armadillo is a very significant statement. In fact, you may or may not know that the San Saba, the armadillos, are the mascot of their team and they call themselves the Dillas the Dillas. Then there's the State Seal, again another lapel pin of mine.
Speaker 4:I've got a lot of lapel pins and tie tacks that have all kinds of Texas stuff on them. Goodness, we're in the season right now for bluebonnets, and that's, the bluebonnet is, of course, the flower of Texas, and this is the time of year. I have a daughter who just took her three kids out. This is the 12th year in a row. They were little bitty when they started it and they have pictures taken in a field of blue bonnets near Ennis, texas, and that's within an hour of where they live. She does that every year and that's become quite a family tradition now, and an awful lot of people love to have their children photographed in fields of blue bonnets.
Speaker 4:What about the state bird? That's the mockingbird, as you may well know, and the state amphibian, and you don't see nearly as many of them as you did when I was a kid, hunting around with my BB gun, I would go shoot horned toads. Well, shame on me. I wish I had known better at the time. But anyway, the horned toad is, oh, you know, tcu, the horned frogs they call themselves, and that's our favorite amphibian. What about our song Texas, our Texas Boy? That's a wonderful. That's a wonderful song, but don't forget, a lot of people actually think that Deep in the Heart of Texas is our state song. It's Texas, our Texas, but Deep in the Heart of Texas is close by.
Speaker 4:Did you know that our folk dance, the Texas, the official Texas folk dance, is the square dance as it should be? And along those lines, a favorite form of Texas music is Texas swing. The legendary fiddler Bob Wills, from out in West Texas, made Texas swing a national phenomenon actually swing a national phenomenon actually during the 1930s and 40s when swing music, big band swing music, was a favorite and he had a big band Texas swing band. The state motto is friendship. Way back when the Spanish first encountered Caddo Indians as they were moving around through Texas, the Indians would raise their hand and say something like they didn't understand exactly what they were saying, but they assumed that the Indians were saying something about friendship and so that became the state motto, if you will, is friendship, and from that, whatever they were saying, thanks to the Caddo's. Well, we got the word Texas somewhere in here.
Speaker 4:Oh that's the origin of the word Texas.
Speaker 4:Hey man, texas fruit, though the Texas red grapefruit, that depends on your taste. I've been doing some work lately. I had a book come out on the famous Texas Ranger ripped forward and, by the way, there's another symbol for you is the Texas Ranger badge. The Texas Ranger badge is a lone star with a inside a wheel, a circular wheel, star with a inside a wheel, a circular wheel. And, uh, anyway, this, this famous texas ranger from the 1800s, is, uh, he came along about the time that the pistol was being developed and he favored a large model walker coat.
Speaker 4:These are old percussion cap, cap and ball pistols and he had a Walker Colt named after Sam Walker, a famous Texas Ranger warrior, who was killed, shot in the head, during the war with Mexico. He was in Mexico when that happened, but the Walker Colt was a much improved pistol and a very large and heavy pistol. In fact, when you loaded it up, the chamber was quite large and they had special cartridges and when you loaded that thing up with six cartridges it was one ounce less than five pounds. So when you were going to shoot somebody with that thing, you had to extend your arm and boy, that thing was going to try to pull down on it. And so that was the, the powerful Walker Colt, and it became a. It became a symbol of the West.
Speaker 4:These were very powerful guns this Rip Ford, whom I've written the book about. He shot an opponent and knocked him down and they walked it off. What distance was it? It turned out it was 125 yards. How far is that, distance-wise, with open sights? That is one football field 100 yards plus two end zones. 10 yards and 10 yards. It's 120 yards plus an additional five yards. That is a heck of a pistol shot and it just shows not just how good a shot that guy was, but it also shows how powerful that particular handgun was. So the Texas, as you may know, was the gunfighter capital of the Old West. There were more gunfighters who were from Texas, more gunfighters who were killed in Texas. It was, the gunfights just were incredible. There were more blood feuds in Texas. It was, the gunfights just were incredible. There were more blood feuds in Texas.
Speaker 3:What are gunfighters? If you don't mind me asking, Can you elaborate on that? What gunfighters On gunfighters, yeah, yeah, gunfighters yeah, like what did they do?
Speaker 4:Well, they just, you know, Texans generally were a great many Texans were armed with guns, handguns in particular, and if they took offense at something, well, the shooting would start, and so you might have a saloon fight. You might have Tascosa out in the Texas. Panhandle was the gunfighter capital of Texas during the 1880s. They had a lot of shootouts there and again they had blood feuds. The first blood feud in Texas started in the 1840s, right where I am I'm talking to you from Carthage, texas, and there was a blood feud in this vicinity that lasted for several years and it was the first Texas blood feud, but hardly the last. Those blood feuds went on for something like 75 years in Texas. It was early in the 20th century before they finally subsided, and there were many of these things and there were many of these things, and so more blood feuds in Texas than in any other state or territory, more gunfights, actual gunfights between opponents in Texas than in any other state, more gunfighters were from Texas than any other state or territory and more gunfighters were killed in Texas than in the state. So Texas was indeed the gunfighter capital of the Wild West. I was thinking about the symbols. And I mentioned the music a moment ago Texas Swing and with its folk dance, the square dance. There was something else. What is our favorite musical instrument in Texas? And that is officially the acoustical guitar.
Speaker 4:I'm headed down to Houston tomorrow to participate in the San Jacinto weekend. I'm going to get to give a talk from the San Jacinto Monument on Saturday morning and while I'm down there, see when you're there. You're where the USS Texas was moored for many decades. It is the oldest battleship in the world. It was a dreadnought built. Well, it was laid down prior to World War I. It participated in World War I and World War II before we got it back. The USS Texas BB-35 was its markings.
Speaker 4:Now what about the most famous Tall ship? They're reworking the battleship Texas right now. It needs repairs and it's getting them in a dry dock. But the Most famous tall ship in Texas and that is the Alyssa and it is in Galveston Harbor and it may be Touring. It's a wonderful tourist attraction, something I really like. And it is in Galveston Harbor and it may be touring. It's a wonderful tourist attraction, something I really like. And, my goodness, we talked about the Texas flag. You know the pledge honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to thee Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible. And I get to talk to various SRT groups DRT groups Now, that's sons of the Republic of Texas, daughters of the Republic of Texas and when I get to speak to them we always turn around and pledge allegiance to the United States flag, but also we make that pledge honor the Texas flag as well. What is the favorite Texas sport? Well, I think everybody ought to know that it's rodeo. The rodeo rodear.
Speaker 4:That came from the Spanish, from the vaquitos, and Anglos adapted it and it became an enormously famous sport horsebacking, bullbacking, it's really something here's a, by the way that leads us to the fact that, hey, what is the state hat? Well, the state hat, and I've got a bunch of them around here. The state hat is the cowboy hat, of course, and I've got a. I'm looking at a gray one and I've got a. My goodness, I've got a, got a big, big black one up there, and a brown one that I love to wear.
Speaker 4:So that's our, our state hat. What is our? What is the state knife? Well, of course, it's the Bowie knife, the famous, legendary knife fighter, jim Bowie, he, uh, he came up with, uh, with those. What is?
Speaker 4:What is the traditional Texas footwear? It is the. It is the cowboy boot, of course. And um, my goodness, here's one that you may not have thought of as a Texas symbol.
Speaker 4:There long was a saying that the Bible belt of the United States was the South. The Southern states were the Bible belt of Texas, and Texas, it was said, is the buckle on the Bible Belt. Texas was the buckle on the Bible Belt, and you could tell it by going around as the towns were formed. You could see on almost every corner there would be a church, and so Texas was very devout in that way. And, of course, early on, the Catholics were the only religion in Texas, the only formal religion in Texas. Goodness, I think of the chuckwagon when I'm thinking of cowboy boots and so forth, and chuckwagon-offs are great fun, and boy do they have fine food, Wonderful food to eat. Did you know that the state dish Talk about a symbol. The state dish is considered chili and the state horse is the quarter horse, and I own the quarter horse. A daughter of mine really did enjoy riding and so we had we owned a quarter horse together, sunny, three socks, it had three white stockings above its hooves. And what are the most famous ranches in Texas? Well, I guess it's a tie. The King Ranch is one of the most famous ranches in the entire world and it still has close to a million acres today 800 and some odd thousand acres, and it was over one million acres at its height. And then the largest ranch ever under one fence anywhere was the XIT. It covered 10 counties in Texas. You had branding iron that had an XIT face on it, and the XIT was 3 million acres.
Speaker 4:The Texas state government in the 1880s needed to build a new state capital. We didn't have the kind of money that we wanted to spend on a splendid state capital, large, wonderful place. And so that was the period of the cattle boom and the state of Texas offered three million acres of land in the Texas Panhandle to any company that would build us the kind of state capital we wanted. And so we got that magnificent state capital in Austin that opened in 1888. And in return, of course the XIT had a magnificent ranch and indeed a lot of people don't know it. But as a finishing ranch over the last couple of years as they raised their cows they leased 2 million acres in Montana and would drive herds up there and then around the gosh they'd open up a can of peaches and the cook on the chuck wagon could make peach cobbler and that's a state symbol itself.
Speaker 4:Oh, we have a state railroad and you probably know it by. You guys have probably done some kind of a show on it. But the Texas State Railroad runs, you know, out of Palestine to Rusk, palestine to Rusk, and it's great fun and while I was state historian my wife and I took a nice trip on that 30 some odd mile railroad. It's great fun. The state bread we're talking about food a little bit. It's called pan de campo, bread of the camp. State bread is pan de campo and you guys may know this already.
Speaker 4:But the most decorated hero of World War II, which is the largest war in world history, was an East Texas farm boy, northeast Texas from up in the Greenville area, named Audie Murphy, and a great many people know that already. There's an Audie Murphy Museum up there. But what they don't know is that the most decorated sailor of World War II was also a Texan and that was Lieutenant Commander, a submarine commander named Sam Dealey and he is from the famous Dealey Plaza, dealey's of the Dallas area, and he was a magnificent submarine commander. Unfortunately he was killed during the war. So those that's, you know, those are a lot, of, a lot of the symbols that we identify with Texas, I think.
Speaker 3:Any other state symbols that like have some origin in like Native American words or like something.
Speaker 4:Oh, I don't know about the languages and of course, as you know, the Spanish was the dominant language in Texas for a long time. The Spanish came to Texas in the early 1500s and began to settle Texas and there were some 25 missions built and Catholic missions built around Texas. That's more than anywhere else. They were very active in California also, but they built 22 missions in California and 25 in Texas. So we were the leader there, as in so many other things, and so golly close to. If you start in the early 1500s, you know you're saying well, almost three-fourths of Texas history was Spanish history. The Spanish attached Texas to Mexico. And did you know that the very first Thanksgiving was in Texas rather than in the in the pill they had? We had a, we had a Thanksgiving ceremony out at El Paso del Norte. That happened in, let's say, 1598, whereas the pilgrims had their Thanksgiving in 1621. And so we had a Thanksgiving ceremony in Texas for 23 years before they ever had one in pilgrim land way up in New England. There were 11 priests present, 400 colonists and there was a feast. Indians helped out. It was the real deal. I wrote a little book on it one time, an old children's book. It's a bilingual book a page of English and a page of Spanish, so naturally Texans played a large part in that.
Speaker 4:More Texas cities or towns with professional baseball teams than in any other state. We are way over 100. Now most of those teams were minor league teams. Only the Houston Astros and the Texas Rangers have been major league teams. But boy, the sport was very popular in Texas, and so we had the Texas League, and we still do. We have the East Texas League, the West Texas League and so forth, and all of it added up to more than 100 professional teams. I'm not talking about semi-pro, I'm talking talking about semi-pro, I'm talking about professional. This was in the heyday of professional baseball, and Texas, of course, was the leader in that, and we've been the leader in so many things. You know it's easy to be a Texas bragger. That's me.
Speaker 5:I guess we talked about chili being a state food, right, but in it being a state food, they don't consider beans to be a part of that. Now, I love beans in my chili. What do you think about beans not being allowed in state chili?
Speaker 4:Hey, hey, that's okay with me because I prefer the chili straight. Let me tell you, I'm from Corsicana, texas. Corsicana is the home Wolf brand chili and boy, of course you can buy it with beans. You can buy a can of chili with beans Wolf brand chili. I prefer my chili straight, no beans. You can buy a can of chili with beans Wolf Brand chili. I prefer my chili straight, no beans. I love with tortillas, I love all that you bet, but I want chili straight.
Speaker 3:Fair enough. I have another question too Are there any state symbols you think are controversial or that are controversial?
Speaker 4:I don't know. Texas has such a strong history we were going to go in this direction or that that naturally, some of the things are controversial, some of the things are controversial, and so almost anything that would be strong enough to have a symbol, there might be some controversy attached to it. So, yeah, that's possible, sure. Well, it's been great fun talking to you guys about the symbols of Texas. Again, you have as rich a history and a culture as Texas has and there are going to be a lot of symbols and it was fun trying to figure out what you guys would want to talk about.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you for spending a bit of your day to talk with us about Texas state symbols.
Speaker 4:It's my pleasure. I hope this turns out to be a worthwhile program.
Speaker 2:Well, that was a good one. They even, you know, even though they didn't ask him, Bill did tell them what he knows.
Speaker 1:That's right and Bill knows a lot. So the fact that Bill, we got all this in 30 minutes, this is great. I mean Bill could go on for hours telling his I don't know if anybody knows this bill taught texas history at panola college for a long time and he used to when every time he came in to give certain segments of history like, for example, he's doing, the texas revolution bill would quite often dress up in in the gar of the time Like he would look like somebody maybe that bought the island and he was talking about cattle drives. He would look like a Texas cowboy on a trail. Or if he's talking about William Jennings Bryan, he'd wear a suit like William Jennings Bryan may have worn when he was given his cross of gold speech. It's just, it's fascinating. Bill does this when he would go around the state, do these things, and I wish, I wish some of our listeners could see Bill while he does these types of things.
Speaker 2:I'd like to see his wardrobe.
Speaker 1:No, it's a big one. It's a big one.
Speaker 2:Well, scott, that was a good one, and I want to thank everybody for listening. We've let them wrap up, so we're going to do the same. Have a good day. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Next time, folks, again, maybe we'll let somebody do our work for us.
