Venture Capital for Law Firms: Conspiracy Theory or the Future? | Jonathan Hawkins

Law Firm Fail: Your Boring Contract Could Cost You EVERYTHING!

Imagine losing a case because a tiny detail in your contract blew up in your face. Sounds crazy, right? But trust us, it happens ALL. THE. TIME.

This episode isn't about fancy legal jargon nobody understands. ❌ Forget complex lawsuits and million-dollar deals. This is about the BORING paperwork that could CRASH and BURN your entire law firm.

Meet Jonathan Hawkins, the ex-gaming lawyer who's seen it all. He used to battle burnout in the trenches of the gaming industry. Now, he's a law firm lifesaver, here to show you how to avoid EPIC FAILURES before they happen.

Think engagement letters and employee agreements are a snooze? WRONG! These are the silent assassins hiding in your office, waiting to destroy your business.

Tune in and discover:

• The Sneaky Traps in Your Contracts: Learn how to spot these hidden landmines before they explode.
• How to Deal with Know-It-All Clients: Those clients who think they're the lawyer? We'll show you how to handle them like a pro.
• Lawyer Self-Defense 101: Protect yourself from clients, employees, and even YOURSELF! ️

Bonus! Jonathan spills the tea on his crazy career change and the secrets to building a thriving (and drama-free!) law firm. ☕️

This ain't your typical law podcast. Ditch the complex legal jargon and get ready for ACTIONABLE advice to future-proof your firm.

Listen now and learn how to:

• Avoid contract nightmares and save your business.
• Handle difficult clients with confidence.
• Build a law firm that's resilient and stress-free.

Ready to ditch the drama and build the law firm of your dreams? Hit play and let's do this!

Craving more law firm wisdom? Dive deeper into Jonathan's world beyond the podcast. Connect with him on LinkedIn for insider tips and follow his firm, Law Firm GC, on their website at www.yourlawfirmgc.com. He's also the host of the Founding Partners Podcast - your one-stop shop for insights from successful law firm founders! Don't miss out - connect with Jonathan and unlock the full potential of building a thriving law firm!

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Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer. He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field. This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.

Want to connect with Brian?

Follow Brian on Instagram: @thebrianglass
Connect on LinkedIn

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Well, let me throw out this scenario. Think about this for a minute. I can't say personally that this has happened, but I've heard whispers that it might happen. You got gigantic insurance companies that have pools of capital. They got to invest somewhere. They usually buy a big real estate and this, that and the other, let's say, they invest in a law firm. So now they're on both sides of it right, and it may not be a direct investment, but how do you deal with that? Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 2: 0:34

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to the show Today. All the way from Atlanta, georgia, I have Jonathan Hawkins. Jonathan is a general counsel for law firms and we're going to talk about ways to set up your firm from the beginning that will avoid catastrophic failure when people leave or when you decide you want to leave or when you decide you want to wrap your practice up. We're also going to talk a little bit of reggae, a little bit of drumming and a little bit of life. Jonathan, welcome to the show. Happy to be here. Thanks, brian, it's been fun. So Jonathan is a member of the Great Legal Marketing Mastermind Group and I wanted to have him on here to talk business for a little bit, because every meeting he says something that even in that group the experienced business-minded lawyers kind of look and go, the experienced business-minded lawyers kind of look and go. Oh shit, I'm not doing that. So I want to make sure that we hit all of the basic things, lawyer, to where you are today. So tell me about the practice before the practice.

Speaker 1: 1:55

So I grew up as a business litigator, did that for forever, still do some of that now, but that's my background. So in all sorts of business litigation but primarily it was, you know, business divorces of closely held businesses, and then you know that's what sort of sent me down the rabbit hole of law firms because we did some law firm breakups. But there was I did have a weird sub niche for a while that you mentioned there, the gaming stuff, and it's really sort of the video slot machine stuff. In Georgia. Those are run through the lottery, they're legal and they're in every gas station everywhere and there's some weird disputes there. We don't have to get into that. But I did have that niche for a while. I still do a little of that, but I largely have jettisoned that part of the practice because it just wasn't what I wanted to do and it had become really a distraction to what I do want to do, and then, for a while, you were even thinking about leaving the law and going to do something else, right?

Speaker 1: 2:53

Yeah, I did. Um, I think most lawyers, uh, that I've ever spoken to at some point come to that day and they think I'm not sure I want to keep doing this. Sometimes it's the area of law they're in, it's just not fit for them. Sometimes it's the practice of law is not fit for them. And a lot of people you know they say I'm going to go in house thinking that's going to be the panacea, and then they get there and they think, uh, that's this isn't it either.

Speaker 1: 3:22

Um, for me, you know, I always was interested in business. I thought I wanted to go do some sort of business in some form or fashion, whether it would be real estate or something else. And I explored a variety of things over the years. And a college friend of mine, longtime client, who develops and operates senior living, came to me one day and said hey, do you want to come join me? He had been partners with his dad and his brother. They were sort of going their separate ways. He said I want to keep doing this. Why don't you come join me? I'm not sure what you'll be doing, but why don't you come join me? I said, sure, that sounds awesome. And so I left my last firm to join him and I sort of carved off a lot of my practice but I kept a small piece of it and kept the law firm going on the side and that was sort of the law firm practice. So still do a little bit of that real estate stuff, senior living stuff.

Speaker 2: 4:25

So I still have a foot in that boat, but but now I get to do a lot of things, so it's cool Reignited your passion for the law and you share with me. The goal now is to build a general counsel for law firms, practice that actually goes nationwide.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Yeah, you know there was, I was, I remember it. I mean, it took me a long time to build this practice and I built it from nothing. There was no one at my firm that was doing it. I just sort of built it, bootstrapped it, and I always felt like there's no one out there really doing it and there's a need for it. And it was always sort of there in my mind. And I remember one morning I was at the gym listening to music or maybe listening to podcasts, and I just said you know what I got to do this? Uh, cause I don't want to be I think we had this conversation last time we were hanging out. I don't want to be on my deathbed and say, man, I should have done it, or look around and say somebody else did it and it should have been me. So, so yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2: 5:22

Last last time you were up here so I asked this question of a lot of people like okay, what's the goal, and then what's the why behind the goal? And your why behind the goal was like I don't want to look back with regret and think at the end of my career, well, I could have built this thing nationwide and then I didn't. For many people it's money. For some people it's money. For some people it's fame. For you it's like the mountain is there. So we went and climbed the mountain.

Speaker 1: 5:49

Exactly. I mean it's it's as you know, growing a firm is. It's not easy. There's a lot of ups and downs. It's more stress, more headache. You just got more things you're dealing with with, and so it's. You know, certainly my life would be a lot easier if I wasn't trying to do this and frankly, at least now you know revenues are up, but you know I'm not making really all that much more money. I might be making less money than I was two years ago.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Right, right, top line for show, bottom line for grow or whatever that rhyme is right. But I, you know, I I want to ask you because I hate working for and with lawyers uh, at least at least as clients, like I love uh, I love what we do at Great Legal Marketing and helping lawyers build their businesses and maybe that's the answer that you're going to give but I hate having lawyers as clients. And so you've chosen lawyers as your niche and you're advising lawyers on lawyer things, right, business structure contracts, employment contracts. How have you sort of navigated the? Yes, you have a law degree, but you are not a specialist in this when it comes to dealing with lawyers as clients?

Speaker 1: 7:07

So I would say, you know, for the most part I like my clients. You know every now and then I'll have a challenging client. Most of the clients I have this is not their specialty and they don't really know what they're talking about, and they realize that pretty quickly and they.

Speaker 1: 7:23

You know they will defer to me on most things. Now some of them feel like you know, as we all know, there's some lawyers that are smarter than everybody else in the world. So you know, those are not my ideal clients. And the ones that think they can do it themselves often try to do it themselves. And when they have a problem if it ever comes to the surface, then they're coming back to me. And when they have a problem, if it ever comes to the surface, then they're coming back to me. So you know they are challenging clients but I like them. I will say this I've had some clients that are bulldog, aggressive trial lawyer types and I also do some lawsuits involving sort of law firm breakups and they come to me I mean, almost every one of them has come to me at some point in the litigation. They say you know what? I have a newfound appreciation for what my clients are going through. I had no idea Now that I'm a party.

Speaker 1: 8:15

It's like the sleepless nights, the stress. It is completely different as a party than it is as the attorney, and that's an interesting. The attorney and that's an interesting. It's happened several times and it's an interesting realization. I've never been a party. Hopefully I never am. But knock on wood, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 8:37

How are you splitting your time today between solving problems and like proactively planning and setting up people to avoid problems in the future?

Speaker 1: 8:48

You know, it depends on the day let's say, let's call it a week, and then on the let's back up. So right now, just by luck of the draw or unluck of the draw, I've got a handful of you know litigation break-ups doings and right now that's taken up a lot of my time.

Speaker 1: 9:09

But a month ago I would say it was all sort of on the planning, partnership, succession planning side and so it sort of vacillates a little bit. I am getting some help in to help with the litigation, so I think that part will go down a little bit for me and the more the planning will go up, so depends on the week.

Speaker 2: 9:34

Where would you rather be?

Speaker 1: 9:37

I would rather be probably 20% working on strategy and planning with clients and 80% working on the firm, growing the firm.

Speaker 2: 9:50

Right. So so growing out of the actual doing of of the business and into the management of the people, and you have perhaps. You know we talked about this last time. I don't know whether it's whether it's come to fruition or not, but it sounded like maybe the cavalry was coming for you and you had some more help coming in. Yes.

Speaker 1: 10:08

I think it's. At least one person is coming, hopefully here in about three or four weeks. Haven't Awesome?

Speaker 2: 10:17

We're about 99% there. So let's talk some common problems that lawyers have. What are lawyers and law firms doing to unwittingly set themselves up for failure?

Speaker 1: 10:30

So I sort of view it as I call it the pillars of protection. And who are you protecting yourself from? So, protecting yourself from clients, you're protecting yourself from your employees or you're protecting yourself from yourself and then maybe other third parties.

Speaker 1: 10:49

So I like to start with sort of the client angle and that's really hey. Let's look at your interactions with the client and that starts with the engagement letter. Let's make sure that thing's buttoned up. Let's make sure you've got your conflict system buttoned up. Things buttoned up. Let's make sure you've got your conflict system buttoned up. Let's make sure, if you're not going to engage with the client, that you let them know. You know it's really sort of that.

Speaker 1: 11:12

And of course you need your insurance and all that in place. So that's first place I usually start with a law firm client. Then we look at you know your employees. If you have employees, I highly recommend having you know agreements in place with even attorneys. I think that's not super commonplace but particularly with a contingency style practice, you need those agreements in place because the big fear of every contingency firm owner is I'm going to bring somebody in, train them up, introduce them to all my clients and then they're going to get up and leave and take them all and you really can't stop it. You can't have non-competes. Clients get to choose. But there are ways through agreements, I think, enforceable ways to at least protect your downside. So I do that and highly recommend that, of course, your other employees, various policies and procedures you'd want to put in place, and if you want me to keep going, I will, or we can take a break.

Speaker 2: 12:16

Well, yeah, and I'll come back to that. But then you said protect us from ourselves.

Speaker 1: 12:20

Yes, and that's you know. A lot of lawyers call this succession planning, which is not entirely accurate in my view. I think it's really more of a backup planning. So you know you want to have called a hit by the bus plan in place what happens to the firm, your clients, your employees and your family if you get hit by a bus one day. Most firms don't have something like that in place, but I think that's essential to have in place. And then another piece which you talk about on this podcast is sort of your personal wealth strategy, if you will. A lot of lawyers spend every dollar they make and it puts them in a place where it limits their options now and forever and in 20 years. And so I think I'm not a wealth advisor, I'm not going to advise them on that, but I do tell them look, don't spend all your money now because it's going to limit what you can do later.

Speaker 2: 13:21

So this is the discussion that I was just having with Bill Biggs down in Florida. We were at an event together is you know, the margins inside a law firm, and especially inside a contingency fee law firm, can be so high that there's an argument to be made that if you enjoy doing what you're doing, you ought not to be investing that money outside of the firm, because you could just keep plowing it back in. And if you own the firm, because you could just keep plowing it back in and if you own the firm, the margins are so high. There's a question for me and I was asking Bill this about like well, how do you ever get it back out? Right, if I, if you, wanted to deploy some cash into the firm to start a new marketing initiative or whatever it is, how do you make sure that you safely get it back out?

Speaker 2: 14:04

And I don't know if you have thoughts on that, but that's like the quandary that I'm dealing with right now. It's like I've got some investments outside and they're returning 8%, 10%, 12% a year, but it just, you know, when you find the thing that you can do inside the firm, that's returning 5x, it's like why would you not take all that money and put it back into the firm? But then it's the whole mental block of like how do I get it back out? So that's the balance that I'm trying to strike.

Speaker 1: 14:37

That's a great question. So there was a guy some years ago that I think he said it was something like how to make a big bet. And so he said you know, the first thing is you need to make sure you have a revenue stream. The second thing you want to do is make sure you have a paid off house.

Speaker 1: 14:53

No, debt that if everything goes wrong, you can go live in it and then you have a pile of money. You can make a big bet, and I'd say a similar approach to what you're saying. You know, I think you need to take some money off the table to make sure, if everything goes wrong, you've got that. Whether that means you know what that means to any individual person might be different. And it's not money that you're investing, it's really the safety money, the safety money. But to the hit by the bus plan point. If you've plowed all the money back into the firm and I talked to lawyers about this what happens if you die? Suddenly? Most places, only lawyers can own the law firm and many times the spouse is not a lawyer and is not involved and they're not going to be able to step in and keep it going. And so you've invested all this money in, but you can't pass that investment on to your family. So it's a balance. I get it. I'm not sure there's a clear answer, but there's some risk there.

Speaker 2: 16:02

When I figure out the clear answer, I'm going to monetize it and teach it. It's, it's, this is, this is, I think, um, it's like the entrepreneurial puzzle. It's you. You want to bet on yourself, but you also, you have that. Okay, what if I invest it all, and then especially in a contingency firm, like and then we splinter and, and, because clients always have the choice to go with the lawyer that's handling their file or to just pick up and find a new lawyer, if, if the firm blows up, Uh, and so reinvesting in yourself. Now it's like, not only do you have to get the marketing right, but you have to have a great culture within your firm to to make it so that it's a great place for people to stay right, and so kind of. Back to what you were talking about with employment agreements, and I know this rule is going to vary state by state but what do you have in terms of best practices for law firms that are putting golden handcuffs or at least case handcuffs around associates while they're trying to build the practice?

Speaker 1: 17:09

Well, some of the things I put in there. So you've got these. Most jurisdictions sort of follow the ABA approach, where you know if you have material contact with the client you can give them notice. Joint notice is preferred. Some states are a little more well-defined. You know, like Florida for example, you're required to try to negotiate a joint notice before anybody can send a notice. So that's one element of these agreements. You basically say this is how notice is going to happen. You've got to give notice to the firm first and you may even draft out what the notice to the client is going to look like on the front end and you say you know notice to us first, then the notice is going to go to the client slows things down, gives the firm an opportunity to sort of react once they get the news.

Speaker 1: 18:02

Opportunity to sort of react once they get the news and then you know in an hourly firm it's typically less of an issue because I mean you just draw a line in the sand and anything that was billed before they leave belongs to the firm. Anything after is going to belong to wherever the client goes. But for the contingency cases goes. But for the contingency cases you can have preset agreement on the fee split within reason. If it's too onerous on the departing attorney. Courts have said that's the same thing as a non-compete. We're not going to enforce it. So there's a sweet spot. But that's usually better than the fallback, which is the quantum error analysis that the firm is usually going to not make much money and they could have invested in a case for two years a good case, a big case paid this attorney a salary, whatever, invested money, time and then the attorney takes it and gets a $10 million fee six months later. Uh, quantum arrow is not going to compensate the firm adequately for that, in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 19:16

And then you talked also about um, okay, if you get hit by a bus, you you often can't bequeath the firm to your spouse because the spouse isn't a lawyer. And the question that comes up for me is okay, but in certain states we do start seeing outside capital and non-lawyer ownership. So what's the status of that? It's Arizona, utah maybe, and DC. Is that right?

Speaker 1: 19:41

That's what I'm aware of. I know some other states have looked at it and are looking at it. I have not heard that anyone else has really come out.

Speaker 2: 19:50

If you were reading the tea leaves. Do you think that is a coming wave or do you think those are maybe isolated states?

Speaker 1: 19:58

I feel that it's probably inevitable. It may take 10, 20 years for it to be everywhere. I just I feel like it's inevitable, it's sort of like Because why?

Speaker 1: 20:11

Well, it's sort of like when Uber came out right these, you know, you got these, move fast, break things and then ask for permission later. I think there's a lot of money out there and they really want to get into the contingent CPI world and there's a lot of money behind the scenes and I think they are pushing, pushing, pushing. Now there are a lot of lawyers that are 100 percent against it. So it's going to be a battle, but I just I feel like it's inevitable and once, once you see that it might work in arizona, other states are going to slowly do it. I mean they did this in australia and the uk years ago. I mean they have publicly traded law firms over there, um and so, and they're still seem to be doing okay. So I think eventually it's just going to happen.

Speaker 2: 21:20

It strikes me they would have to be conflict checking across the ownership of the VC firms. Right, if outside capital owned four or five, six firms, you almost would have to be conflict checking across them. No.

Speaker 1: 21:37

I mean we'd have to get into the specifics, but let me throw out this scenario. Think about this for a minute. I can't say personally that this has happened, but I've heard whispers that it might happen. You know, you got gigantic insurance companies that have pools of capital. They got to invest somewhere. They usually buy a big real estate and this, that and the other. Let's say, they invest in a law firm. So now they're on both sides of it right, and it may not be a direct investment, but how do you deal with that? Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 2: 23:06

That's interesting. So the revenue on both sides right, Collecting insurance premiums but then also collecting a contingency fee, which is a high margin business, and you have insurance capital behind it, so you have the ability to go in and and advertise and take over.

Speaker 1: 23:23

That's really interesting so then the insurance company will never lose right.

Speaker 2: 23:30

It's already kind of right. I mean you, you see in Florida, right, you come in and and get these tort reform laws passed, ostensibly because we want to lower insurance rates, and what happens the year after? They're like insurance rates are still going up and up and up. Um, I mean, the insurance in the insurance industry's lobby is pretty good they're doing okay yeah, yeah, let's talk life outside the law. So you're a big reggae guy which you would not know to look at you.

Speaker 1: 24:00

I know it, man, I get that a lot. I love it. I love it. Yeah. And drummer also. You know, yes, Love the drums. I don't get to play quite as much as I'd like. Just, you know, life takes over, but yeah, that's my. You know, if I could do anything, that's what I would do, Drummer. Or If I could do anything, that's what I would do drumming a reggae band. Are you playing in a band or no? No, I don't have the time now. I've got the drums and I'll go in there and work on them a little bit here and there, but I don't really have the time. I've got young kids who are about to be teenagers and so I'm busy with them and the firm and all this. So you've got to squeeze it in when you can. If I, if I was leaving two, three nights a week for band practice?

Speaker 2: 24:45

um, I might get in trouble In another life maybe. What are you doing with your kids to your? Your kids are, uh, 11, 12.

Speaker 1: 24:51

They're about to be 14. They'll start high school next year.

Speaker 2: 24:55

I thought you said almost, almost teenagers, so 14 and twins. Right, that's right, yeah, yeah. What are you? What are you teaching them about entrepreneurship and what it is that you do?

Speaker 1: 25:05

Um, probably not all that much. Um, I mean, they know I'm a lawyer, but they don't really know what that means. Um, I don't really talk about it much at home.

Speaker 2: 25:17

Um so, my 11, my, my nine-year-old. He uses I'm going to sue you as a threat, like it's. I don't know what he thinks that means, and my 11 year old used to joke that dad goes to people's offices and takes their money from them, which is not it's not entirely untrue offices and takes their money from them, which is not it's not entirely untrue.

Speaker 1: 25:48

That's like when my kids were younger forever they, you know. They thought I was a liar instead of a lawyer. Dad's a liar, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:55

And in your spare time you're you're running the founders, founding partners podcast, so tell me about that time you're running the Founding Partners podcast, so tell me about that.

Speaker 1: 26:04

Yes, that's, you know, by virtue of what I'm doing, both who I represent and what I'm trying to do with my firm I thought it would be cool to get Founding Partners on there and talk about their journeys all along the spectrum. So some are brand new just out. You know, I interviewed one guy, maybe been six months out, and then others have been doing it forever and they've assumed the CEO role and have a huge firm and part of it was selfish for me, just because I wanted to learn and get tips and learn from people who've done it, but then also share it with others who are out there trying to do it too. So that's that's why we do it. So once a week we drop it interviews with folks, and it's been fun.

Speaker 2: 26:43

I say that frequently is like one of the main reasons to start a podcast is to have permission to interview people, and even friends of yours, about the things that you don't really talk about. Um, you know, over over the dinner table or over happy hour, Right? Um, and so what? One of the things that you're learning with founding partners is there's a million different ways to be a lawyer and to run a law firm from trial lawyer I only want to work on cases to I only want to be the CEO of the firm, and then everything kind of in between, right. And so have you noticed similarities among people who are opting for that CEO role? Is there a path that those lawyers have taken or is it kind of from anywhere?

Speaker 1: 27:38

You know, I think it really depends on the individual. But most family partners that have grown a pretty big operation, I just think that's another thing that I think is just going to happen. I mean some love to do the trial work, you know, but those firms don't grow big in size. In my experience they're usually fairly small. They may be big in in numbers, you know, you know some of these guys are popping, you know, nine, sometimes ten figure verdicts, um, but you know it's it's more for them, it's more about trying the case. But the ones that are building firms, I think you know, you know, you know this, to build a firm, you can't be in the weeds on cases all the time, you just can't.

Speaker 2: 28:28

Is Atlanta a big plaintiff's verdict area? I know California has eye-popping numbers all the time. Is Atlanta like that?

Speaker 1: 28:38

Yeah, Georgia's, at least for now, is pretty plaintiff-friendly. We've gotten some big verdicts lately.

Speaker 2: 28:48

Do you have a sense for whether those are?

Speaker 1: 28:49

collectible? A lot of them are. Do you have a sense for whether those are collectible? A lot of them are. I think it's gotten to the point where I've talked to some plaintiff's lawyers and they're like man, we've got to stop publicizing this stuff, it's going to ruin it. It's getting to that point.

Speaker 2: 29:15

Florida just passed the tort form and it's probably just a matter of time before some form of it comes through. Georgia, Virginia's starting to swing a little bit. So we've, you know we're we're a contributory negligence state and there's always talk about getting rid of that. But the trade-off from that would be maybe you lose collateral source and maybe you lose something else, but we just got a bad faith, underinsured motorist bill passed somehow. It's starting to slowly change and become a little bit more favorable in terms of opening policies and collecting more money, but we do not have the biggest verdict in the state. Every year is somewhere in the low, mid to low seven figures. Every year is somewhere in the low, you know, mid to low seven figures. We don't have 10 and we certainly we're not eight and certainly don't have nine figure verdicts here.

Speaker 1: 29:58

So it's an interesting and I always think, if I got a nine, figure verdict.

Speaker 2: 30:02

you probably wouldn't see me anymore Like that would be it.

Speaker 1: 30:07

Well, you know some of those nine figures. When you ask are they collectible, I mean obviously you know they get appealed immediately and they go on for some time and then probably they get there's some sort of negotiated settlement on the back end. So who knows what the ultimate collection of those are, but you know there's some big ones certainly.

Speaker 2: 30:31

What would you do if you didn't have to do this or if you didn't get to do this?

Speaker 1: 30:34

however you want to phrase it Well so my next career uh is concert promotion. I've already sort of started thinking about that. Um fire festival three. Yeah, yeah, exactly Got to find an Island somewhere for that right.

Speaker 2: 30:54

Are you involved in the in that scene in Georgia right now?

Speaker 1: 30:58

No, I go to shows here and there. In college I went every weekend, but now again I got to pick and choose.

Speaker 2: 31:06

I got to, you know only get so many hall passes. What would you change to revolutionize the concert promotion scene? How would you do it differently than people are?

Speaker 1: 31:14

doing it now. Well, I'm not sure if I have any ideas how to revolutionize it, but you know I would do it Basically. I would just like I know in the podcast it's as an excuse to bring people I want to see to Atlanta or to wherever and it's really for me, but then also to share it to other people.

Speaker 2: 31:36

How long have you been practicing?

Speaker 1: 31:39

Let's see, I graduated law school in 03. So Okay, 21 years, 20 years.

Speaker 2: 31:47

Five years more than me. What would you tell yourself if you go back in time and talk to the you that was graduating law school? What would you say?

Speaker 1: 31:58

You know, I probably would have tried to niche up sooner. I sort of went and I guess this is just part of it, but I explored a lot of different things over the years, and I think that's probably. I explored a lot of different things over the years and I think that's probably natural for a lot of folks and that's how you settle into what's right for you.

Speaker 1: 32:19

If I could have short-circuited that and told myself just go here, it would have been you know be further along now, but I'm not sure what else I might tell myself now but, um, I'm not sure what else I might tell myself.

Speaker 2: 32:36

There's definitely a balance between you know, you have to try all of the flavors of law to find out what you don't like, and uh. And then in hindsight it's like, okay, that should have been the path and I should have been on that path, you know, seven years earlier. Um, so that's, that's always tough balance. It's the advice that everybody gives, like you have to find a niche, but I think if you choose it too early, then you might find yourself in the Atlanta Gaming gas station niche.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Yeah, I mean I have gone through several niches over my career and I tell people you know you got to find one that is going to hold your interest for a really long time and I finally found the one that held my interest. So awesome.

Speaker 2: 33:18

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't really matter what the destination is, as long as you are enjoying the journey. So, jonathan, people will check you out on the founding partners podcast. Where else do you want to direct?

Speaker 1: 33:27

listeners, I'd say LinkedIn. I'm real active there. That's the best place to find me and then you can find me from there. But my law firm's called Law Firm GC. It's here in Atlanta. Our URL is yourlawfirmgccom, Although you know I used that one because Law Firm GC was unavailable when I did it, but I just got it you just got it I just got it last week at it, someone had it and they let it go and I just periodically track it.

Speaker 1: 34:02

And then I logged in and it said it's up for auction and I went in and I got it for not much nice yes, nice, and now you own both so we'll be changing that at some point. It's it's not fully implemented yet, but yeah, we'll be changing that. Awesome man.

Speaker 2: 34:18

All right, we'll make sure we link to all that in the show description. John, I appreciate you coming on buddy. Yeah, thanks for having me.