Life Beyond the Briefs
At Life Beyond the Briefs we help lawyers like you become less busy, make more money, and spend more time doing what they want instead of what they have to. Brian brings you guests from all walks of life are living a life of their own design and are ready to share actionable tips for how you can begin to live your own dream life.
Life Beyond the Briefs
How Lawyers Can Get Out of Their Own Way | Aaron Velky
Feeling stuck in your legal career, like you’re just going through the motions? You’re not alone. Meet Aaron Velky, CEO of Get Out of Your Own Way, who’s here to help you break free from the chains of self-doubt and ineffective leadership.
This episode of Life Beyond the Briefs is your guide to unlocking transformational leadership. Aaron shares his personal journey and the hard lessons he learned about courage, empathy, and self-awareness. Discover how to create an environment where your team feels empowered to speak up, innovate, and thrive.
Ready to tackle the tough conversations that can elevate your practice? Aaron reveals practical strategies for fostering open communication and building a culture of honest feedback. Learn how to acknowledge mistakes, reflect on your leadership style, and reconnect with your roots to inspire your team.
Plus, we dive into the importance of employee happiness over salary, and how mastering the art of active listening can transform your organization. With Aaron’s unique Vision and Clarity Triangle coaching approach, you’ll identify and overcome the pain points holding you back, ultimately designing a business that enhances your life instead of consuming it.
Don’t miss this episode packed with actionable insights and inspiration for leaders at any stage of their journey. Ready to reclaim your power and lead with purpose? Hit play and let Aaron Velky show you the way!
Grab your headphones and let’s dive in!
BONUS! Want to connect with Aaron?
- Website: AaronVelky.com - Check out his site for more information about his coaching programs and retreats.
- Instagram: @AaronVelky - Send him a direct message to learn more about his upcoming retreat or to discuss coaching opportunities.
- Retreat Information: Aaron is hosting a retreat in November in Scottsdale, aimed at helping participants prepare for 2025 by mapping out their vision and values. If you're interested in joining, reach out via his website or Instagram to book a call and see if it's a good fit.
Don’t miss the chance to elevate your leadership and personal development with Aaron's guidance!
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Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer in Fairfax, Virginia. He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field. This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.
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Follow Brian on Instagram: @thebrianglass
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Courage doesn't exist unless you're scared, and I think that leaders have to be really mindful of what it was like to be back at the other parts and ends of the spectrum of the totem pole. I can remember how scary it was to raise a hand and be like I have an idea, because of fear of reprimand or backlash, that I was going to be the guy that got squashed today. And when you forget where you came from as a leader, the awareness of the organization starts to shrink and spread. In organizations, especially with one's attempt to be creative, is usually killed by a leader that has no recollection of what it was like to be employed by somebody, no recollection of what it was like to not be able to bark orders, no recollection of what it was like to make 40 grand a year and have to pinch pennies at the end of the month just to make sure you got by, because that's not where we are anymore, and that awareness is usually a killer to the care that I think really brings out the best of a team.
Speaker 2:What's up, my friends? Are you sick of the rat race? Do you sometimes feel like you're just spinning your wheels in a law firm hamster cage? Well, it is time to break free, and in today's discussion with my friend, aaron Velke, the CEO of Get Out of your Own Way, we're going to walk through the secret to transformational leadership. Today's episode really is a masterclass in the art of internal self-work. Aaron and I are talking about all the things that you need in order to go from leading your team like a drill sergeant to becoming the confident, inspirational leader that they deserve. Imagine a world where your team, like a drill sergeant to becoming the confident, inspirational leader that they deserve. Imagine a world where your team feels free to speak their minds, where you're leading with purpose and passion, and where your law firm is a thriving, harmonious ecosystem. That world, my friends, is just within your reach and, with Aaron's guidance, you'll discover the power of reflection, the importance of open communication and the art of giving without expecting anything in return. So if you are ready to transform your leadership style, buckle up and let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Today's guest is Aaron Velke, from Scottsdale, arizona. Aaron is the CEO of Get Out of your Own Way. He's a transformational coach and he's the co-host of a podcast by the same name. Get Out of your Own Way, aaron. Welcome to the show. So glad to be here, good morning. We were just riffing, before we got on, kind of about what you're offering in that coaching business is and what you do, and you've described it kind of as transformational coaching, and I think the big picture item is like at the end of the day, the leader is the problem, right, and nobody wants to hear that message because we think that what we need is a business tactic or book or podcast like one of our podcasts, but it's rarely that, and so the first thing I'm interested in is how did you get to the conclusion that it's really the internal self-work that everybody needs and not the next widget or thing?
Speaker 1:really the internal self-work that everybody needs, and not the next widget or thing. The amount of mistakes I've made is countless, so I think I learned the hard way when I first got out of school and got a job. So I did a degree in financial economics, thought I was getting into that space, graduate 09 during the bottom of a recession and I go into maintenance as like a dirty job, but a great paying job relative to what I was being offered. I had a boss at the time who regularly mixed up the use of I and we, and what would happen is like when we, the team, did something well, it was like I figured it out or I nailed it, I had a great quarter. It was like I figured it out or I nailed it, I had a great quarter.
Speaker 1:And then when it was time to assign blame, it was we didn't do that or we messed this up or we did this incorrectly, and I can understand how it's easy to mix those things up. Now I didn't. Then I just was frustrated that praise was given in ways that was kind of blanketed versus like spotlighting someone that did above and beyond work, and that blame was often mismanaged too, as well as sort of like absorbing the team effort. So I think I've learned a lot about leadership from good leaders and from moments like that, where I saw things a little bit differently, where I saw things a little bit differently. Then I got into a position where I was the guy and I was in charge of making sure people were taken care of and that I was thoughtful In all of my experiences good, bad or ugly it's much easier to project and to look outward and say like it's not my fault, and I think in the world of being a leader, what becomes more challenging as you grow is that the level of responsibility that you have to take also expands.
Speaker 1:That's why things like salaries go up and we are able to take more financially. But I also think that anything that comes requires more responsibility, also requires much more reflection, and I got to a place where I ran an organization and things were not going well and rather than sit and deal with it, I sat in my pain it was right during COVID. I was actually reflecting on this the other day. Covid hit and I panicked for two weeks and the consequence of that panic for two weeks was not just me I mean, I suffered through two, but my team was really, really suffering and I had to stop all things and pay attention to them for the next four weeks because I had done such a poor job of navigating and communicating.
Speaker 1:Once you have one experience whereas a leader, it comes back to you and your team. The people you love and the people you care about all unanimously are like bro, you dropped the ball here. You will never look at an experience the same, but I think most of our surrounding people, the people that we're caring for, are afraid to say that to us. It takes tremendous courage for our teams to call us out, and when my team called me out, it put me in a position where the only thing I could do was look in the mirror, and since that day, I have not stopped looking in the mirror because I'm much more aware I think awareness is usually the lacking principle of my responsibility to them and my impact on the people that I'm in charge of.
Speaker 2:What do you think that you did in the years leading up to that conversation that empowered your team to come to you and say bro, you were the problem, because most people, I think, would quit, go find another job or complain to each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially in a world of quiet, quitting right, you're remote and you're doing your own thing and you just kind of slowly drift away. Part of it was that we regularly had hard conversations. We made that a part of our culture. Though I was good at that, I probably wasn't good at checking in enough and frequent enough. I also think that we were in circumstances that required that. We were in circumstances that required that, and so having both of those things tie in tandem, it was probably much more circumstantial than it was culture. I think culture was a solid 20% of that, but circumstances dictated that we had these hard conversations or everyone was doomed. We also had really good friendships and I think at the core they knew that I cared about them and I knew that they cared about me. So this confrontation was also their way to say hey, we believe in you. Also, stop it, because you're driving us nuts and you're driving everybody nuts and eventually you're going to drive this car off the cliff if you don't realize what you're doing.
Speaker 1:What was the size of that organization? Pretty small, I mean. We were three full-time people and maybe eight part-timers. I like lean organizations that have call them part-time, call them contractors, but they're ninjas at what they do. So it was small. We were a startup mode that had just raised some capital and begun building out tech, so a lot of our stuff was outsourced and decentralized, but still a really tight team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so what happens is, as you grow the team beyond that and other levels of management that you're not involved in, it becomes easier for people to go and complain to each other behind closed doors and not bring things to you, and even to go and complain to their manager, who maybe doesn't bring everything to you or selectively brings things to you. So that's a challenge in a growing organization. Do you have strategies for maintaining that alignment all the way down through the organizational structure?
Speaker 1:We've done some work with orgs that have more people.
Speaker 1:I think we tend to find our sweet spot around the like.
Speaker 1:You know, we have eight to 50 employees, so still pretty small.
Speaker 1:But what I've seen is that the ivory tower that leadership can exist in is largely the root of the problem, right, and that means that there's no feedback, that means that there's no conversation, there's no level of care and there's not a modeling that takes place around having tough conversation. Creating a space where people can call out a leader requires so much safety, and typically what I see happen is that in meetings or in discussions or in larger company forums, a leader can be very quick to chastise an idea and as soon as one person is called out for an idea, for being creative or suggesting something, and it's immediately reprimanded creativity is dead, it's gone. So I think leaders have to be really mindful of, like all of their language and to have those dialogues in person, behind closed doors, where there isn't a larger audience, because the signal that it sends is you do not challenge me, do not challenge status quo, do not suggest an idea that doesn't come through me and that just can be cancerous for an organization and for the leader in the long run.
Speaker 2:I went through a period where, during our weekly L10 meetings, my only goal was to be the last one to talk, for exactly that reason, right, because I had that propensity to just jump down the throat of whatever idea it was good or bad and then everybody follows your lead, right? Um, and so my, my whole goal for like six months was just let it play out and then you. Then you can weigh in, because ultimately in a in a, it's my dad and I who the owners of the firm, like we're the ones making a yes or no decision. But if you don't give everybody else the space to talk, then you can't grow that next generation of leaders.
Speaker 1:I'm a big believer in doing that and I'm aware of how hard it is. Adam Grant has a term that I have learned to love, which is the hippo right the highest paid person in the room and the hippo is likely going to be the easiest to sway the argument in their favor without trying. It's not always intentional, but the highest paid person's opinion, hippo is going to dictate where everyone else leads, and if that person speaks first, more than likely you won't hear other dissenting opinions. I'm a big believer that creativity in many ways is by default divergent, so it's going to push up against status quo. It's going to push up against what's been done, and we're change catalysts. That's what we do here. We create change both individually, professionally and sort of organizationally. In doing that and in talking about that, we've got a couple of clients that own law firms, and one specifically in Baltimore.
Speaker 1:To challenge status quo is so scary, and to do that as an organization you have to have everyone that's willing to be courageous.
Speaker 1:Courage doesn't exist unless you're scared, and I think that leaders have to be really mindful of what it was like to be back at the other parts and ends of the spectrum of the totem pole.
Speaker 1:I can remember how scary it was to raise a hand and be like I have an idea, because of fear of reprimand or backlash, that that, like I, was going to be the guy that got squashed today. And when you forget where you came from as a leader, the awareness of the organization starts to shrink and spread. In organizations, especially with with ones that attempt to be creative, is Usually killed by a leader that has no recollection of what it was like to be employed by somebody, no Recollection of what it was like to not be able to bark orders, no recollection of what it was like to make 40 grand a year and have to pinch pennies at the end of the month just To make sure you got by, because that's not where we are anymore and that that awareness is usually a killer to the, the care that I think really brings out the best of a team.
Speaker 2:So the um, the current change agent that we're afraid of, is we're rolling out a, an NPS score, right, we're doing that. And then we're asking two questions Um, what is one thing that the law firm could do that would make your life and your job better? And then, what is one thing the law firm could do that would make your life and your job better, that wouldn't cost us any money? And as we were discussing, like, what do we roll out with the um, with the net promoter score survey, we're like well, what if we get a bunch of feedback and we don't want to do any of it? Right, because you can only that once, you can only solicit feedback and you get it and you don't run with any of the ideas. Well, the next time the staff isn't going to trust you to give you the feedback.
Speaker 1:Nicely said.
Speaker 2:So you know. So we're rolling that out and we'll see what comes back. But that's as scary as a leader and as like okay, we have the status quo and the status quo is pretty good. But I also like, at our core, we want to have a great place that people like coming to work, because I think that's the real differential. You could go work anywhere. You could probably make more money at a different firm, right? And if another $5,000 over the course of the year is going to make or break your life, then awesome. But I think we can offer you something in, either in terms of culture or atmosphere or you know what it is that you're working on. That's a greater value than that 5,000. But if you ask people and you don't like the responses you get back, you still have to kind of swallow it and go with them, right?
Speaker 1:I think it's really important to hold congruent to your word. You know the, the, the theme underneath all that is is back to culture and integrity. Culture for many is a fabricated idea about, I don't know, breakfasts and dinners and like activities Preston Pysh Pizza and ping pong tournaments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the way I think of culture is the standards and the systems that happen when you're not looking and thinking of it. That way allows a leader to really dissect what's happening here, and that requires us to model it right. If we're not modeling culture, who is? Because we want someone to perpetuate whatever that value system is. But when we open ourselves up to the feedback of our team or the ideas of our team and we do nothing, we end up creating more of a dictatorship than a democracy, and sometimes as owners, we have to make decisions that dissent against the needs of our team or the desires of our team.
Speaker 1:But I do think there's a push and pull that go into that. Where there are times to listen, there are times to reconcile and compromise, and we're living in a very interesting work environment right now. People are willing to take tremendous pay cuts to be happy where the workforce is much more attentive and attuned to what is happening with leadership and what kind of character do they have and what kind of personality do I want to be around, because I'm going to be here for the majority of my week and because of that, we're seeing massive ripples into where people work, how people work what they need to feel safe. Work what they need to feel safe. I think there's a wealth of opportunity for employers and leaders to pay more attention to the team and the needs of the team, to get better results. And if you want a superstar to stay with you, if you want someone really, really good at what they do and align with your culture, you're going to have to be a much stronger leader and look in the mirror and figure out where your leadership holes are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I'll tell you where my my current leadership hole is doing that and still doing some of the work right, cause we've got I got 18 employees who are in house now and we have five virtual assistants and we're not quite large enough where you can solely be a leader. You've still got to be a revenue agent, right, and it's really like that's my current greatest struggle is doing the work and finding the time to be attuned to what other people need and then and then being agile enough to make the changes to implement the things that they need Right, because, again, if you go and you ask for it, but then you never follow through and you never create or you get five different opinions about, like, what color you know the thing should be, you've got to pick one right, and then you have four people. That is my current greatest struggle is finding the time and the capacity while raising, you know, three boys and leaving and coaching soccer and baseball Monday through Friday, like just finding enough space in the calendar to do all of that.
Speaker 1:I sympathize with you, man. The the throes of leadership are certainly not for everyone, and I imagine you're probably doing a better job than than you know and you know as, as someone who communicates for a living part of that it sounds that if you don't have the capacity, then maybe you just have the communication, and there's not a recipe for every organization, and I certainly don't mean to wear my coaching hat here, but based on even the way that you share about it, the fact that you're aware of it is a great, great place to be.
Speaker 2:I think that awareness point is is important. So you know one of the things that's and yeah, so I run a podcast so that I can get free coaching. So you know one of the one of the things that, as I like to think that I'm above average awareness level, um, I'm curious if you have a strategy for, if you're somebody that is average or above average, for dealing with people who are below average awareness as far as awareness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Is it, is it? So? I heard something on a podcast the other day on um. I think it was my first million about. You know, the secret sauce is, if you can, if, if your goal can be to give more than you get in every relationship and you can find somebody else, your goal can be to give more than you get in every relationship and you can find somebody else somehow whose goal is to give more than they get. Like that's the one plus one equals three and it takes right. And so, but, if, but if that's your goal, you're going to find a lot of people whose goal is not to give more than they get. Um, and so strategies for I don't know, for identifying those people or for, maybe, for creating awareness, or for bringing somebody in to create awareness in the people who are below average in the organization.
Speaker 1:Well, two comments. One is I wouldn't try to recognize when people are taking more than they give. I would simply acknowledge that as part of the equation. I personally believe that giving without any kind of expectation is a strategic superpower in any organization. Can we give? Can we give? Can we give? That may only result in a return in one out of 10 circumstances, but it still creates who you are and it still holds up to the integrity that you have internally. So I'm a big believer in like. In some ways, it doesn't matter If you're a taker, take please. I'm offering this, you are allowed to take, and putting down your guard to that can often make you a better giver.
Speaker 1:I think in an organization with team members or with employees, however you refer to them, awareness can be really tricky because it requires someone to be willing to look at themselves, and so feedback and being delicate about feedback really requires a lot of permission If awareness is the beginning of change. Sometimes even I'm hired to give people feedback and sometimes I have to be very delicate about asking like, hey, is this the right time, is this the right space? Or hey, do you mind if I share something with you that I'm noticing? Context is everything when it comes to promoting awareness. So if I say to you something that is punchy and aggressive, but I've not framed it, I've not created the conversation with some kind of safety in mind, then it's probably going to feel like an attack. And once someone feels attacked, walls come up. Awareness is never going to increase. So the way we create frame and I think this is a really good tool for any leader doing any business under any circumstance is to say here's the conversation that I'd like to have with you and here's what we're going to talk about in this conversation. Then we have the conversation and then we close the conversation. So I might say Brian conversation, then we have the conversation and then we close the conversation. So I might say, brian, it's really important to me that we offer a lot of value to listeners. Do you mind if I offer you an insight that I would wear if I were wearing my coaching hat? And if you're like, yeah, that'd be great, then I can step in and say like, hey, this might be a great way to communicate to your team that you're not quite feeling like you're doing enough for them, but that you intend to and that you'd welcome any feedback so that you can feel more connected. Then at the end of that back and forth, I might say great, how do you feel about me just putting on my coaching hat for a moment? Does that feel okay to you?
Speaker 1:The intention was to make sure that you got some value for yourself out of this, just by creating that kind of frame. Now, as a leader, I'm able to have a discussion with an employee, especially if I'm emotionally intelligent and listening and being attentive. That gives them safety to like hey, this is boxed, it ends, I'm going to step back out of this once we're done. But also, you get to hear my intentions while starting, and frames exist in multiple places. The same thing exists in significant relationships. Hey, I'd like to have a conversation about the party. Last night, I didn't really feel good about a couple of things and I just want to talk about it so that you can know how I feel. I'm creating a frame in that, and frames are a really good way to help both parties understand the reason for the conversation.
Speaker 1:I think that one of the general emotional intelligence mistakes we have in conversation as leaders understand the reason for the conversation.
Speaker 1:I think that one of the general emotional intelligence mistakes we have in conversation as leaders is no one knows what the outcome of the conversation is, and whatever your history is, it's probably going to make the outcome of the conversation trauma-based.
Speaker 1:So someone's going to be like I'm about to be broken up with, I'm about to be fired, I'm about to be yelled at, you're about to be fired. Is the one right? Yeah, yeah. And that may have nothing to do with you as a leader. It may be because when they were 16, a boss sat them down and said, hey, I need to talk to you, and then said you're fired. So it might not have anything to do with you and it isn't necessarily your responsibility, but it a leader that you have to be mindful of. So creating a frame can be a great way to say hey, let's have a conversation about how you communicate to customers. I want to go through a couple of positives and a couple of things that you can improve on, and then, when we're done, let's see if there's any training that you need to take on. Okay, so now I've created a frame where that person can be like oh, okay, I'm safe here. There's a future here, beyond this conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, because you've tagged on that, and then, when we're done, let's figure out if there's any coaching or any training that you need. I like that a lot. Yeah, it's helpful.
Speaker 1:It's not easy, but it's helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so it strikes me that there's probably no way to get any better at having these conversations than just to have more of these conversations right, or to role play with a coach maybe, but even then it's different than when you, uh, when you finally go and sit down with the employee and you've got to get all the way through, and then I'd like to figure out if there's some something that we can do for you at the end that gets you better at this.
Speaker 1:Well, here's something that that might help anyone listening you get better at these conversations when you're on the receiving end. So, as a coach, my job is to have those conversations with really amazing clients who want to care for more for their team, who want to grow their business, who want to accelerate, who want to live full lives of impact and joy and adventure and all kinds of things. And when they are the top of the totem pole, no one is telling them no, no one is feeding them hard conversations that force them to reflect. They don't know necessarily always what it feels like to be on the receiving end.
Speaker 1:I go to my coach pro tip make sure your coach has a coach. But when I go to mine, I am reminded what it feels like to be with me, right, I'm reminded what it feels like to ride the tension between discomfort and growth, to ride the thin line between someone helping raise your awareness to also attacking Like there's there's a thin line there and I think, as a leader, we don't put ourselves at the mirror because we're so busy. We tell ourselves we're so busy making the organization happen or we have all this responsibility. But if you really want to get better at having your employees, raise their awareness and having tough conversations and critical, growth-centric dialogues with them. Have a tough conversation with the coach. Get it for you, get the medicine for you before you dish it out to somebody else. You will have a different kind of compassion for that person.
Speaker 2:I have a conversation with my coach in 90 minutes. Oh boy, Thank you for the homework assignment. Let's pivot just a little bit and talk about your business. So who do you serve and who's your avatar? Client, we would call it.
Speaker 1:There's probably two. We've got a business leader who is at a stage of what's next. So what's next can mean a lot of things. That could mean like it's going well, but I don't feel fulfilled or excited anymore. I've kind of lost a passion for it. I've plateaued. What's next might mean I've just sold my business and I have no idea what I'm going to do tomorrow or the next day, the next day, the next day, because this has been who I am. What's next might also mean is there another level? Can I go for more or am I settling? Is this good enough? It's not that bad, but I always said I would go for more.
Speaker 1:I think that stage of what's next is really beautiful in a way, but there's not really a guiding principle to how you figure that out. So that typical person is usually driven and ambitious, but has probably spent their whole life running from something. Here's what I don't want to be. I don't want to be like my dad. I don't want to end up broke. I don't want to end up on the street. I don't want to run a business. I don't love whatever it is. But they're running from something they probably never organized their life around. Here's what I want and I think that question is even hard to answer what do you want?
Speaker 2:It's very hard to answer that question, not in the negative.
Speaker 1:Correct, right Correct. We spend a lot of time with people that are lacking a vision, and that doesn't mean that they don't have any. It just may not feel clear, it may not feel crisp, it may not feel defined and it may be riddled with these like well, I know what I don't want, and while that's important, it's not powerful. It's not powerful enough to pull, it's not powerful. It's not powerful enough to pull. And I have found that a really powerful vision is like super steroids for an entrepreneur. Anyone that's clear goes, and they go fast. So the what's next is sort of one level of entrepreneur. I think the other is sort of, I would say, an aspiring leader. They are representative of what the organization needs from them, but they're not a leader yet. They're trying to figure out how to install culture, they're trying to figure out how to build a team, to influence the individuals on their team, to perform at a higher level, to pull amazing human beings together, and while they are operationally successful, they probably are not quite in tune, not emotionally intelligent enough, not aware enough and haven't figured out how to bring that into the organization to help everything grow.
Speaker 1:When you read books about leadership and you can pick your guru for that. Most of what is regularly brought up is that being a leader being is not doing leadership. It's a completely different operation style. So we work with leaders who are sort of becoming, and they're looking to become, that individual. But there's a lot of work to be done both operationally and personally, so that individual is usually running a successful business already. I'd say in both cases they're already successful.
Speaker 1:Our way of making impact is to help leadership grow in like a trickle down sort of theory. But in both cases change is on the horizon and I think that in the way of leadership and in the way of change there's often pain that is necessary for us to be like something's got to go. And we tend to find individuals and work really well with individuals who are on the downward spiral of pain, like that their life is good enough, their business is good enough that there isn't a humongous like I have got to change this right now. So they're not in the drive mode of like this has to stop, please stop the bleeding. But they are in the drive mode is like I know that if something doesn't change I'm going to be in settle land forever. And I've been in settle mode settle land and it's a very dangerous place, so we tend to catch people on the horizon before they get into that slippery kind of like sludge.
Speaker 2:That's really interesting. How, how do you so? The way that I described that is, you know, rate, whatever it is your business, your life, your relationship with your spouse, whatever on a scale of one to 10, you can't use seven, right Cause seven is safe, but seven tends to be that middle land where you're content but it's not bad enough to change anything. It sounds like your people are somewhere above a seven, but it feels like it's sliding towards, and so how does somebody become aware of you on that slide and then find you and stop the slide?
Speaker 1:What we've built is different than a lot of coaching companies. I think our approach is also very different. It's holistic, but it's also designed to change the dynamics of what entrepreneurship is. So I think, if I were to boil it down and this sort of like thematically could be helpful for someone is as an entrepreneur, you're usually forceful and eventually force has this diminishing return. You can only be forceful for so long. Then you start to recognize there's dynamics where you can be powerful. You don't need to work as much. It's not as pushy, it's more like stand still.
Speaker 1:The analogy that I use often, and it's part of our logo, is the king and queen on the chessboard. It isn't about gender, but the queen. The role of the queen is to move in any number of spaces, dynamic, right, so forceful that queen is all over the place. The king doesn't move. When the king moves one single space, the whole board changes, everything about the board and the game changes. So we we we try to help individuals that are are, if they are, lacking awareness, by helping them identify the pain that might be there.
Speaker 1:The problem. I think that what coaching often sounds like is hey, can you get me what I want? We would have a very hard time with that. You know we're not selling like an Airbnb solution or a tech software. We're broad in our industry or in the industries that we work in, but we're narrow in the problem set that we work with. So more of it is like are you having these problems? And when you have a very certain set of problems like the ones we just mentioned, we're often cited inside of our circles with other entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1:You got to go talk to get out of your own way, because they know the problem better than anybody, and I think that sliding scale for many is largely a defense mechanism. We lie to ourselves all the time that's fine, it's not that bad, it's cool, I can do this for another 10 years. Yeah, lie to ourselves all the time, that's fine, it's not that bad, it's cool.
Speaker 2:I can do this for another 10 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll figure it out. And when you start to stretch out that time horizon, then you learn where somebody's really at hey, can you run your business like this for the next five years? Oh, no, no, I would rather sell or die. Then we know, we kind of know the questions to ask, so it just takes time.
Speaker 2:All right, let me take you back to that, to the vision component, because I think I think there are so many lawyers that I talk to who, exactly as you described, right Running from something, running from my work too many hours, or I don't have enough money, or I hate my clients, or I hate my boss, but don't know really what they're running to. And so, if you can kind of walk me through like the construction of the vision that somebody might run towards, Well, there's a triangle that we like to use for creating vision.
Speaker 1:So at the top of the triangle we have the vision itself. At the bottom left of the triangle we have the vision itself. At the bottom left of the triangle we have the word clarity. The definition we use for clarity is the removal of undesirable options. So a big part of that is what no longer fits. That's an important context. It's not. Most of us, I think, stop there. We're like, well, I don't want these things. And then we use that to just pause and say, well, okay, whatever's going to get me, not these, I'll tally as my vision. So it's important to have clarity, to remove things, to cut things. These cuts actually dictate where we go.
Speaker 1:Entrepreneurs, I think, are hot air balloons, so you don't need more heat. When the hot air balloon is on the ground, the heat is on and the balloon is full. You don't like ramp the heat up a lot. You just have to cut anchors and then it'll soar. But we often get confused and think that we need to stack on more. It's actually a process of less.
Speaker 1:On the other side of the triangle, the bottom right, we have the word values. So we need to know what we value the most. I just had a call with a client who's in the middle of an eight-figure acquisition of a company, and in the process of that, we're really isolating values, and most of us think of values as abstracts. We're like I value integrity. It isn't defined right. We might say I value compassion, but it isn't necessarily defined. We might need to say, well, what is compassion? How do I define? How do I make that an action? So we ended up requalifying compassion into giving. With some other companies that we've worked with, we've done this, where leadership said I value innovation, and we redefine that into courage. How do we make that an action? But when we know our values, then that top of the triangle becomes much more vivid. It becomes much more tangible. The process of understanding those, though, is deep. Most people don't know their values, even though their life is driven by them. They've just never really done a lot of work to isolate, like how does this show up for me and and what's it look like?
Speaker 1:We build out vision, starting with things like clarity and values, because it gives us a base, a strong foundation, but the process of building a vision has a lot more to do with setting free what is already there. I think all of us have a vision. We just get crushed with feasibility and possibility, caving in on things like resource management, because that's how we run a business. So vision is a creative exercise and in the case of many lawyers, you're constantly looking down at feasibility, possibility, logistics, dynamics, language, words like formatting, to say, well, can it or can it not? Does it fit in the rules or does it not, is it out of bounds or is it not? And building a vision is largely about don't tell me what the rules are, tell me what you want. It's really difficult to do when we're so accustomed to formatting and in any kind of profession where you are constantly in formatting, getting someone to push you over the edge of like be creative is often very difficult.
Speaker 1:We typically look for a structure and a strategy that sounds something like this hey, so tell me what the dream is. Oh, the dream is I want to build this business, I want to get it to seven figures and I want to sell it. I'm like great, the there that we live by is selling this business. How long is that going to take? Five years, okay, great. What do you do when you get there? And in that question lies some of the most beautiful answers, because someone will tell you what they really care about. Well, if I sell the business for $8 million, you know what I'd do? I'd start a charity, I'd write a book, I'd learn to dance, I would pick up Spanish, I would take my wife out twice a week, I take my kids to Europe for the summer.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden, we have what playing big is, but we're not going to find it nose on because most of us intersect our vision with a goal. We actually block the vision with a goal. So we're like I need to get here to do the thing that matters. And in that intersection lies this beautiful catastrophe. And the catastrophe is we've bastardized our vision by inserting some sort of formatting.
Speaker 1:When we let go of the formatting, we have the potential to say look, you can build that charity now. Let's get it started in a month. Let's apply for your IRS 501c3 and we're going to start it. You're not going to be where you think you're going to be With $8 million. You might think you can snap your fingers and build a charity. It doesn't work like that. It never does. You might think that you can learn to dance overnight. It doesn't work like that either. We begin, we invest and we try. We go bit by bit, b-i-t. Begin, invest and try, and so when we start to really dissect these things, most business owners are just, in their own way, shocker.
Speaker 2:Right, we have to get out of our own way to get there, but we've usually inserted goals in the middle. Yeah Well, and it was funny, because what I thought you were going to say after and what happens next is like I don't know, right, because most of us don't know what happens when we reach that milestone. What happens when you make partner? I don't know what happens when you're financially free, like, what do you go do next? I don't know, I'll go sit on the beach.
Speaker 2:Well, to me, the people that are able to reach that pinnacle aren't the kind of people that are going to be happy sitting on a beach after about two weeks. Right and so. But but you're right, you're so stuck in that the limitations that are self-imposed by I have to show up in the office and I have to do all this work and I don't have any time, which I said earlier in in in the episode like you're so stuck that you can't see beyond to that vision. So I think that's that's really that you can't see beyond to that vision. So I think that's really really impactful to unpack Like, all right, we took away all the limitations, what would you go into? And it's probably much simpler and much more achievable than the actual goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll give you a great example of this. We have a client that's a veteran and the goal was to 3X revenue, very successful business, 3x revenue and exit. I was like cool then what? And the goal was exit and then build an organization, a nonprofit, that would focus on veterans, getting them really dialed in for how to navigate the VA, getting outside and adventuring and finding community in each other, finding vulnerability to, to have real conversations about their experiences. And in that conversation it was like, well, how, how far away do you think that is? Oh, four years, I think you know. Triple, triple, triple exit for years. Like, okay, cool, we're going to do that in four weeks. And that organization is now up and running. You can check out freedomforheroesorg.
Speaker 1:There's a lot to do, there's so much to do and there's a lot of work to be done on it. But also we've started and it's very easy to get kind of wrapped up in all these conditions. We make all these conditions Well, I need to have a million dollars. Well, I need to have all this success, I need to publish a book. Another guy that I coached. He was like I would really love to go speak to middle school kids because when I was in middle school. School wasn't for me and I was lost and I never thought I would be this successful and I'd really love to go. Maybe I can impact just one kid and remind them that school was not the only thing that determines your success. And I was like, okay, why haven't you done that? He's like, well, you know, I think it'd be. I want to publish like a New York times bestseller and I'm like middle school kids care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, middle schoolers don't even read books, bro. Like what are you talking about? Like go and go today, go this week? Like sign up, like there's a school right there. Like go email them and within six weeks he had booked out four or five different places to go. Just speak to a class, go speak to a college. And all of a sudden it wasn't a dream anymore, it was actually a vision, and I think the difference is the dream is distanced, the vision is here and it's active.
Speaker 2:But that's beautiful and it's so easy to see from the outside. Right, we both laugh. Little middle schoolers don't care about your book, but when you're inside the framework it's very difficult to see. I don't have permission, I don't have the credentials or I don't have whatever to go and just email a bunch of middle school principals and say can I come and speak to you? So that's the benefit of having a coach or having a mastermind or having a group like yours. So tell me about you. Have a retreat coming up in November in Scottsdale.
Speaker 1:We'll be here in Scottsdale. Yeah, the objective of the retreat is really twofold. I think that focus is hard for people, it's hard for me and to stay directionally efficient. That's our word for our definition of focus. So what we're going to do is get everyone ready for 2025, two months early. So we'll be mapping out some of these things vision and values. And then the second objective is to build a dashboard. So we are big believers in isolate something that you want in the future down to a process Know the steps, know the baby steps that you can take on a regular basis. And then we build a dashboard for everybody where now you have metrics attached.
Speaker 1:So, as an example, someone might say, in my vision, I'm healthy, I'm fit, and most of us build goals on outcomes. So we'd say, I lose 20 pounds or I have a six pack. Right, the results come and go, especially in fitness. So we build processes to say, okay, how many times a week do you go to the gym? How many times you go for a walk, how many times you go for a run, how often do you eat a healthy meal? We build that into a dashboard and now you have a metric system to say, hey, over the course of a year, I'm going to try to go to the gym this many times. I'm going to go for this many walks, run this many, many miles. And now your process becomes holistic. It also becomes a lifestyle.
Speaker 1:When we imagine a vision, we typically imagine a lifestyle. This is how I want to live. So we have the roadmap and the blueprint to help someone build out their lifestyle on paper and on metrics, spreadsheets and data. That also then ties with this idea of emotion. So we have both. So this retreat is going to be two and a half days. It'll be here in Scottsdale. It's a ton of fun. So we have both. So this, this retreat is going to be two and a half days. You'll be here in Scottsdale. It's a ton of fun. I just have a lot of fun watching people light up when they sort of figure, like when they decode their own system and they get to walk away with a dashboard start in 2025 in November. It gives you a two month headstart and you're around amazing human beings the whole weekend. It'd be great.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Where can people find that? And I'll link to it in the show description, but give me a direction.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not live on our website yet. It eventually will be. The process is underway. For us, I'd say, if someone listening is really excited about it, you can either go to just AaronVelkecom, check out the website and just book a time to talk with us about it, or go to my Instagram Again, just my name, aaron Velke, send me a message and say hey, we'd really love to learn about the retreat, and I'll jump on a call, or the team will jump on a call and tell you all about it, see if it's a good fit and you can enroll in it.
Speaker 2:And I'll tell you that exercise of reverse engineering the end result and breaking it down into the activity-based things that you actually have control over, that need to be done week in and week out, day in and day out. That's transformational in itself. It's figuring out who do I need to become and what activities do I need to take to reach. Whether it's lose 20 pounds or make a certain amount of money, or run a marathon or whatever the goal is. Breaking it down into those bite-sized steps is really, really impactful.
Speaker 1:It has changed my life and for every part of the vision. We do that, so people typically attribute that to business, but I think the same sort of ethos and pathos also does really well with everything else. Let's do it with our relationships. We want to do a date night once a week is a common one. Or we might say I want to travel once a quarter. I want to do a solo trip once a month.
Speaker 1:When we build a vision, we build it at the next level. So nothing in your current life today is going to stay. Your life as it is ceases and if you're going to get to the next level, very little stays the same when we build that. The exciting part is that we build all these metrics. You, you get to design whatever life you want, and then the business funds that. But I also think that entrepreneurs get really wrapped up. In my life is the business, not my business funds my life and helps me build my life, and that's the whole goal. That's, that's what. That's why we did this. Like no one would do this if you kept the same life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect place to land, because the intro to this show talks about how this show is the place for lawyers to learn how to build a law firm that serves your life, and not a life that serves your law firm. So, aaron, thank you for coming on today. We're going to link to all of your stuff in the show description and I appreciate your time very much, my friend.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being such a good host. Brian, you asked some.
