Life Beyond the Briefs
At Life Beyond the Briefs we help lawyers like you become less busy, make more money, and spend more time doing what they want instead of what they have to. Brian brings you guests from all walks of life are living a life of their own design and are ready to share actionable tips for how you can begin to live your own dream life.
Life Beyond the Briefs
Revving Up Your Law Firm: Marketing Lessons from the Motorcycle World with Dave Thomas
Are you tired of feeling like just another cog in the legal machine? Ready to break free from the grind and rev up your law firm? Join me as I sit down with Dave Thomas, SVP of Growth and Business Development at Law Tigers—the heavyweight champion of motorcycle law.
In this episode, we’re tearing down the traditional marketing playbook and hitting the gas on community-driven strategies that actually work. Dave spills the secrets behind how Law Tigers has transformed legal marketing by building genuine connections with motorcycle riders. Forget the stale pitches—this is about safety, authenticity, and creating trust that goes way beyond the courtroom.
What You’ll Learn:
- Community First: Discover how Law Tigers uses grassroots marketing to forge emotional bonds with riders. It’s not just about snagging clients; it’s about making a real impact in their lives.
- Niche Marketing Mastery: Learn why targeting specific rider demographics is a game-changer. Dave reveals how focused strategies can make your brand resonate like never before.
- Small Gestures, Big Impact: Find out how simple acts—like offering free rider benefit kits—can create lasting relationships and elevate your brand’s credibility.
- Metrics that Matter: Get the lowdown on setting Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) that actually drive results. Dave emphasizes why measuring success is crucial for your firm’s growth.
- Networking Gold: Hear why attending events like the Motorcycle Accident Summit can skyrocket your law firm’s visibility and connections.
Are you ready to shift gears and take control of your future? Tune in for bold insights that will help you build a law firm that reflects your values and vision. Let’s ride together toward a life beyond the briefs!
Connect with Dave Thomas:
Want to dive deeper into Dave's world? Visit lawtigers.com for consumer insights or check out lawtigersmarketing.com to see their innovative marketing strategies in action. Got questions? Shoot him an email at dave@lawtigers.com—he’s all ears and ready to chat about shaking up legal marketing!
Hit play now and get ready to transform your approach to legal marketing!
____________________________________
Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer in Fairfax, Virginia. He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field. This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.
Want to connect with Brian?
Follow Brian on Instagram: @thebrianglass
Connect on LinkedIn
There's so many other marketing, you know, laterals or platforms that you can tap into. When it comes to legal, the way we go about it, brian, is to really take an authentic and emotional connection to our audience. We, you know, kind of have it teed up already because we do operate in an incredible niche within the motorcycle space. We also just really entrench ourselves in the community. So we're at, you know, children's hospitals, we're at food, shelters, we're really encompassing everything that involves the community, because we do understand the importance of that If you keep the community first, then they'll keep you first right. So, and it also is a very authentic approach and connection because now, you know, obviously people do this with people they like and trust.
Speaker 2:What's up, my friends, and welcome back to another episode of Life Beyond the Briefs, the number one podcast for lawyers choosing to live lives of their own design and not get stuck with life by default. Today, I'm talking to Dave Thomas of Law Tigers. Now, law Tigers is a licensed brand for motorcycle lawyers across the country, and if that's not, you don't tune out just yet, because Dave and I are going to dive into all of the authentic relationship community building strategies that Law Tigers implements and talk about how you can use it to build your own brand inside of whatever affinity group is important to you, because, at the end of the day, authenticity and relationships with people are what matters For long enough. You know that I love talking about how to build brand inside of your law firm and acquire clients who don't simply view you as a commodity, because you're the first person to show up on Google. Dave and I dive into a masterclass on how to build authentic relationships, why it's important to build your list and why being vulnerable in your marketing is almost always a good thing. If that's interesting to you, stay tuned, because this is a killer episode of Life Beyond the Briefs.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Today's guest is Dave Thomas of Law Tigers. If you have been on the legal conference circuit, you probably know who Dave is and you probably recognize the Law Tigers brand. But Dave, for people who haven't been to one of these big shows, who are you? What does Law Tigers do?
Speaker 1:So I'm Dave Thomas, svp of Growth and Business Development here at Law Tigers Law Tigers. We are the largest motorcycle brand in the legal industry. We like to coin ourselves as America's Motorcycle Lawyers. We're backed by a marketing team that generates these high value motorcycle cases for our exclusive members across the country. So we have two divisions we have an association of personal injury firms, and then we also have our marketing teams, which consist of traditional advertisement, digital and grassroots.
Speaker 2:And what's interesting about what you do is you effectively and if I misstate this you'll correct me but you license the branding. And so you might be driving on a highway and see a Law Tigers sign with an 800 number and I don't know what. You're probably running TV ads. And then you're running PPC and LSA across America and then you license the branding and you license the lead gen exclusively to law firms in individual states. Do I have that about right?
Speaker 1:That's correct. It's almost like a franchise model. Obviously that's not board-friendly, so it's an exclusive membership. We license the programs Play-in-play for many personal injury firms that want to capitalize on high-value motorcycle cases.
Speaker 2:And then the plus that you add on to that is community building and boots on the ground at poker runs and at Harley shops, and so that's what we're going to be diving into today is how to generate an authentic relationship in your community, and, whether it's motorcycles or you know, the Hispanic lawyers of market and the Hispanic market do this a lot and do this well, but you can take it back to your hometown and do it for little league baseball or for the PTO, and so that's what we're going to get into today.
Speaker 2:Community Marketing 101 is all about building relationships with people, and when you and I connected at an event earlier this year, we were talking about this is the stuff that SEO and PPC and LSAs and all of these agencies are great at pitching but in practice, very, very difficult to actually build relationships with people. And when most law firms sit down and look at their numbers, it turns out, actually, that most of your clients and the vast majority of your dollars actually are coming from people. So how are you doing that as a licensed brand for lawyers? Because the lawyer who has the Law Tigers brand in Virginia, paul Hernandez, is down in Newport News, but I imagine you're doing events all across the state in Roanoke and Paul isn't showing up in Roanoke, so you have his surrogates there with the Law Tigers brand. But talk through kind of the 101 for community brand building when the face of the firm isn't there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, you touched on a lot of great stuff and you're right, there's so many other marketing laterals or platforms that you can tap into. When it comes to legal, we do that. Actually, we have a mixed marketing approach, like I said, of digital and traditional and grassroots. But many recognize us as our secret sauce, as our grassroots and our kind of feet on the ground approach that game locally in the communities that we serve. The way we go about it, Brian, is to really take an authentic and emotional connection to our audience. We kind of have it teed up already because we do operate in an incredible niche within motorcycle space, but we have market managers about 43 of them across the country. They kind of serve and act as pharmaceutical sales reps would serve the healthcare community but we just target the motorcycle community.
Speaker 1:So these guys and gals around the country visiting tow companies, car stores, dealerships, like you said, on those poker runs. You know they're at different rallies, but we also just really entrench ourselves in the community. So we're at children's hospitals, we're at food, shelters, we're really encompassing everything that involves the community, because we do understand the importance that if you keep the community first, then they'll keep you first, right?
Speaker 1:So, so and then also, it's a very authentic approach and connection because now, you know, obviously people do this with people they like and trust and the writers are very picky, group Right. It's the commonality that they really latch on to. So they see us there in the trenches. Man, we're just not at these shows just to kind of have a good time and pass out products, but we're really out there on the front line of defense. You know we're there to spread, you know, writer education, writer awareness. We do everything in our capabilities to actually defer them from actually getting an accident. But we know that if you take the decision of being a rider like majority of us are here at Law Tigers that it's not the question of if but when. We know that you're going to have a highly possibility of land on your bike and we just want to be top of mind when that happens, because we want to give you the proper service that you deserve and knowing that we watch over our own.
Speaker 2:I can imagine that of all the communities to go into the motorcycle, one is one of the more dangerous ones that come in and be inauthentic. If you're somebody who's running a whole bunch of digital advertisement at motorcycle riders and then they find out that you don't ride motorcycles, I can imagine that there's a disconnect there.
Speaker 1:It doesn, it doesn't go over very well, and you hit the nail on the head, brian. There's just so many folks that do that across the country and a lot of digital marketers and I'm not picking on you because I love a bunch of them out there but they feel that they can get these cases just by. You know, a very unauthentic approach of just cherry picking, but you know you're right. You know we have an amazing nation that we live within and it's all about people at the core of what we do. Right, like I said, we like to get out in front of the accident. Like we know like, for example, in the state of Florida. We know that there's over 10,000 injuries and fatalities involving motorcycle crashes each year. We know that we're going to take our generous market share Right, but it's not about that.
Speaker 1:We're out there, like I said, really trying to avoid this from happening, and so we've been doing this for 24 years, brian. So you know we're a world old machine. Everything that we do is with great intention. Right, we come in. We're a plug and play to many firms across the countries that's just looking to diversify, right, and help a somewhat underserved, in fact, fragmented group and misunderstood, because I know I'm jumping around here, but no, riders are some of your most loyal clients and you know, if you're not a rider you would really jump into stereotypes that they're just leathers and Harley Davidson riders and a bunch of tattoos and MCs and clubs. But riders come from all walks of life man, they're lawyers, they're doctors, attorneys like yourself, and so we, just like I said, it's a phenomenal way to first ride your practice and capitalize on serious injuries.
Speaker 2:Is there a distinction within the rider community in the way that you would market towards a Harley rider and the way that you would market towards the guys who split lanes through traffic on Suzuki's?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we sponsor intercross motocross. We're very well diverse within the riding community. Yeah, all the Davidson riders are going to be. You know demographics are going to change. We're going to target. You know football games, you know maybe even some UFC stuff. We know when we're doing our courses and things like that. For some of you, you know your speedy bikes there, but we'll go into the areas where they live as well. So we're very flexible. Also, compliments even on the mixed market. We go into some markets where we feel that, you know, maybe we double down on our grassroots, maybe do a little bit less of traditional and attack a little bit more digital. So it's not a one-size-fits-all, but we have the luxury to go in and assess and see what's working and do more of that and be flexible on the fly. We're a and be flexible on the fly, be a change agent in the motorcycle.
Speaker 2:And I'm sure across the 24 years of doing this you've had stuff that has epically failed. So I'm curious about like a rollout of an idea that somebody somewhere in a conference room thought would like riders are going to love this, and then you rolled it out and they hated it. Does anything come to mind for that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what comes to mind and this is great, man, that's a great question, because a lot of people think that you have to be a writer to resonate with the writing community. Now, a part of that is true. Right, they don't want someone trying to go in and just take advantage of their shortcomings. Many of our firms they have riders who are new to the firm, but the key owners or the founders of the practice or the partners they're all just riders. What we've done is a study on the riding community. What they care about most, brian, when they lay down their bikes and they're injured, they want to get back on the road, they want to get back to full recovery. They want the best darn eternity. That's what they care about most.
Speaker 1:So early on, when we were building this thing, it was a prerequisite. You had to run Like, you had to be like hardcore, tied to the writing community. You had to be on your bike a bunch, and then we evolved and understood that you know what the marketing law type is engine. That's where all the writer stuff happens. But what we do is we represent some of the best firms across the country that already have well-estab, established firms with great reputations, and what we're saying is that Law Tigers is the marketing arm that will present to you the best attorney to take on your case, and at that time we kind of blend the firm with Law Tigers, so it's kind of a co-branded approach in the local communities that we serve and it works brilliant.
Speaker 2:Well, and then you've also built trust within the community. Right, because I think it's easy. You know lawyers who, cynically, if you look at the landscape of crashes and you go, where do I want to spend my next marketing dollar? The areas that come to mind are wrongful death, trucking accidents, small motorcycle accidents, and so, looking from the outside in, if you were investing and you were building the highest ROI business model, you probably would be looking at targeting that. But then you've come in with this brand that has trust nationwide that's built, not really backed by. It's curious because when you look at your website, it's not like we're going to get you the most money. It's all about safety and it's all about community, and I think that's really smart. That must have been intentional, because as I looked at the website just before I jumped on, I didn't really see anything about case results or how to extract the most dollars out of your motorcycle crash.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we used to live in that space and follow suit by saying, hey, we recovered you and what we found out is the only person who really cares about that is the person that's bragging about themselves. Right, and sometimes you can also send the wrong message to look, these folks are just wrecking folks like you and I and blue-collar world some might call it, but my friend is man. What they care about is really that you care about them, and so we take the emphasis and the focus off of the dollar value. You know, I use a sports analogy. You know many folks get out there and you're just kind of coming out first down and you're just shooting for the end zone. You know, coming bombs, you're probably going to be three and out, but if you can just, you know, get you a nice three-yard run I'm talking football now, because we're in football season, I, because we're in football season, I know you're a football fan and get to another four yards and then that third and three is really accessible. Now we're smoothing the chains and that's what we like to do in our business.
Speaker 1:Man is move the chains and that kind of bleeds out to everything that we do is form our marketing and to your point of trucking a wrongful death in motorcycle cases, motorcycle cases, I mean you would compare it against trucking. So there's some similarities, obviously with serious, significant, catastrophic events that's associated with it. But you spend a lot less money marketing to a targeted audience than you would to the general public. That's the only thing with trucking is, you know you still have to market to the general public. It's the trucks that's hitting. You know the automobiles and motorcycle riders, but when you have a targeted niche man, everything you're doing is intentional. You can do more with less. So that's one of the value propositions of really capitalizing on motorcycle businesses.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, it's just a large affinity group, right, it's like being known as the. You know, my mind goes to all the mom groups on Facebook, right, the Northern Virginia moms. Like it's being the go-to one inside of that group, because there were motorcycle affinity groups, just like that. You're doing interesting things on the site, like giving away the free motorcycle rider benefit kit, and lawyers have done something similar to this for years. Right, let me give you the card or the folder that you put your insurance information into, just in case you're in a crash. Or back in the days of disposable cameras, it was the branded disposable camera that will give you that uh that you could take pictures after your crash. So then you must be capturing um email addresses and contact and building the community through um, through those style events also. Right, it's not just this online. Hey, I found you. I called the 800 number because I saw the uh, saw the billboard yeah, we're getting captured in everything that we do.
Speaker 1:We live in tracking what's important and to us, that's everything. We live in HubSpot, salesforce and some of those platforms. We're out at rallies, you know we have a team with iPads in the hands and so we're getting that product and we're shaking hands with friends and influencing people. I like to say that was a great book back in the day I read. But, uh, my point is that you know, we're aggregating that information right, we're targeting them and we're also growing our database. We have monthly those letters that goes out, uh, to all of our members. Uh, we do.
Speaker 1:You know, we touch them on various aspects within our marketing uh, strategy. So, yeah, and that's so important to, to, to do that to, obviously, to help grow your database. You're following, but also you want to see what's working. Well, it's so important to do that to, obviously to help grow your database and your following, but also you want to see what's working and what's not working and allow you to assess and say, okay, what do I need to do more of or less of and what do I need to continue. We call it start, stop and continue. You've probably heard that phrase and that's how we start our meetings. So marketing means to say hey, we'll start, stop and continue.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting because I think that's so powerful. How often are you doing that in a meeting?
Speaker 1:Yeah, every meeting is approached that way. And how often are the meetings? Yeah, we have our weekly meetings and what we like to do we call them speed meetings. Right, we put half an hour on the calendar. If we can get out in 18 minutes, we're out of here because all of us we're running with our hair on fire. We're really busy, but we like to be very intentional and focused in every meeting and we've found by really just, you know, obviously, attraction, eos and all that stuff, but what we've added is the start, stop and finish, and I love that man.
Speaker 2:I love that. Stop, start, continue. And the thing that most law firms miss is stop. Yeah, yes, Because so often it's we should do more, or we should also do this, or we should put more dollars here, and rarely is it. That thing is not working and we need to stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and and what happens is is like we're just all competitive as human beings and what we do is we see what competitors are doing. So I have a unique position in my life. I get to talk to attorneys across the country and do a deep dive into the firms. I fly out, I work with them at their own tables in their homes, but what I've understood is that much of what they're doing in the marketing is just to protect their territories and in my opinion, it's really wasteful. It's not that intentional. So that's where we come in as well.
Speaker 1:Even with law types, even outside of law types, I always tell attorneys you know, slow down and hurry up, as you mentioned, and make sure that everything that you do is aligned to people, because that's the end goal. Like digital, everything you're doing, billboards what is the ultimate goal? Just like when you open up the podcast by saying that your number one way of referrals for new case intake is going to be by way of word of mouth. That's always going to be key. So why wouldn't you roll up your sleeves and go right to the source? I'm not saying stop doing your digital and traditional, but, man like I've seen some stuff you've only done by supporting and sponsoring a little league Dude. That's outstanding.
Speaker 1:I grew up that. I grew up that. I'm an ex-athlete and I can remember this. You know to this day, man, my grandma was sitting at the home plate and I used to hit a lot of home runs. Brian, I was a big kid and I used to see all of the signs right around the gate, man, and I still what it meant. And one of them was like, hey, I was trying to hit them, but also it's like I want to be a leader in the community one day.
Speaker 1:And so where I'm going with this is I see so many firms. They miss those opportunities because they don't feel that, oh man, that's really my traction or I can scale. I'm not going to give you two grand, I'm just throwing two grand away, or 500. You'd be surprised how many no's because I coach youth football as well how many no's we get and I'm just like, oh, you guys are missing it. You know, go into your community, find out what's important to them on a civic level, on a personal level.
Speaker 1:Right, I know I'm digressing here, but my focus is your answer to a lot of some of your shortcomings, your challenges, is because you're spending more time speaking about yourself. You're being a hero of your story, and you should never be the hero of your story. Your audience should be the hero, because people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And the only way of executing that and showing that is going out there and finding out what's important. And I always say that that's what it's all about. And as you give me this platform to talk, man, I'm trying to change the evolution of legal marketing. I'm really trying to do this. We're trying to do it at Law Tigers. I'll take the eye out of it.
Speaker 1:What we talk about is intentional marketing and emotional connection with your audience, because I think we get so caught up in ourselves. Right, you will be in a rainmaker firm and all that, but, like I said, no one cares about that but yourself. We have to make deposits in the community. And I talked to firms. They said well, dave, and we're doing a bunch of billboard, advertising, television, we do it all, but my numbers are a little low this year. Well, I said well, how much have you, how much time have you, have you spend in your community?
Speaker 1:Because ultimately, that's where the connection happens. See, it's like going to a bank and trying to withdraw cash out, but you didn't make any deposits. No matter how much you buy, how much you and your team market, they need to know you. I mean the true you, you know I always say this as well, brian is that the more vulnerable your marketing is, the deeper the connection. And I see you doing it on LinkedIn. That's what makes me smile, because you get it, and we spoke a little bit in West Palm Beach, but I follow you on LinkedIn. I love when you bring your family into it. I mean I actually sit and read your content because I know it's not just made up for fluff fluff, it's who you are as a person.
Speaker 2:Thank you for saying that, man, and there's so much good stuff to unpack in what you just said. You know, starting with, I think most lawyers look at that community marketing spend for Little League or for high school sports as a throwaway donation. I don't expect to see any ROI on that Probably not, because it is a relatively small number thing. The number of people that are kind of come through a Little League and see your banner hanging in the back is fairly small. But on the other side of that, most of the banners that are hanging in the back are just have the firm's name on it, like it doesn't say anything about you, Nothing about what I offer. Just got my name and my phone number. Maybe that's why you're not getting much response to any of that man.
Speaker 1:You said something else in the middle there, about intentional marketing, about people who don't care how much you know until you know how much you care. Really. Tapping into that, I live my life by that. That's a golden rule. I didn't make it up, you can Google it. That's a great quote, but I've mapped out everything I do in life around that. You know that that's it. You know it's it's all about. You know, living with gratitude and that's what they hang on to.
Speaker 1:You know why do you think songs are so moving? And it changes your behavior, your mindset, right? People hang on because people are pouring their truth into their music and that's why we latch on. We, we unvoluntary memorize these songs, right, just because it does something to us. It's an emotional connection to the song. Next thing, you know, you know my kids are singing around the house, even these little jingles.
Speaker 1:But going back, so go back to your marketing. Your marketing should be a song to people, heart from your heart, like they want to know how some of your imperfections work, right, they don't necessarily want to know about your vacation homes in Florida or all that cool stuff. I'm picking on some firms, but a lot of folks like to tell them, this man, how successful I am no man. They want to know that man. You woke up this morning with a little fear that you have to cope with as well. They want to know that man, maybe you got a little bit of this that drives you every day to be at your best. That's the message that you want to resonate with your community and it's going to support everything that you do on a larger scale.
Speaker 2:So this is the power of building your list, right? Because that message, the first time you hear it, you're like what is he talking about and why would I ever hire that guy as a lawyer? But if I've said something interesting enough to get you to raise your hand and give me permission to continue to market to you, either by email, or by mail newsletter or whatever, or subscribe to my Instagram or follow me on LinkedIn, and you tell a story again and again and again and again, occasionally with some stuff about motorcycle crashes or personal injury, but primarily leading with who you are, because people do business with people they know, like and trust. Right, and the internet has given us this way to scale our personality and scale our brand to where, like I'm sure you get this People who feel like they know you, who you don't know, but they've heard enough of your story that they could retell it to somebody else, and that really is the goal.
Speaker 1:And that's what having a list and having an audience allows you to do in a way that, like you, can't buy enough pay-per-click advertising to replace that. I agree with you, man. I know you asked a question offline about you know why do we travel the country and we spend a lot of our emphasis and focus at these conferences around the country. Believe me, my wife would probably ask the same question, because I have beautiful kids at home that sometimes I'm living out of my suitcase. But the reason that we're there is because you know that's where the magic happens. Like you know, showing up, how you show up and how you receive is everything, and so we also very, very picky on who we bring on to All Tigers.
Speaker 1:I'm a little different than other marketing firms. They sell a host of a variety of items and you know, like you know, lower tier, top tier, middle tier For me it's one client, it's exclusive membership, right. So it's so imperative, so important, that we get it right the first time, mutually right. And so cycle to bring someone on could be a couple of quarters, six months, and that's okay. It's all about quality over quantity for us.
Speaker 2:We want to be aligned with some of the best in the country, and it's reciprocated through how we show up as a partner as well. I think that's a great point about conferences up as a partner as well. I think that's a great point about conferences. And you know, listen, you could do all of your CLEs and all your conferences from the comfort of your own desk right now. Right, everything that you want to learn you can learn on YouTube or on podcasts or by paid CLE, but conferences afford you an opportunity really to go and meet and create actual relationships. So I'll tell you a story.
Speaker 2:I was just out in Utah, in Salt Lake City, for Lex Summit and I spoke there and I got a chance to hang out with Ryan McKean and Brittany Green and Jason Hennessey and a couple of other peoples.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that I did when I got back that I've never done before is I sent five or seven thank you notes to speakers who I'd been in the audience for. Hey, thanks for sharing what you said. Like, here's what I took away from your presentation. And today I got a big box back from Jackie Bertel in Nevada hey, thanks, thank you for your thank you note. Here's movie night on my firm right With like an Amazon gift card and popcorn and a drink and chocolate. You know who's getting all of my Nevada referrals from now on, like I won every five years, so it's not that big, but the only person to ever send a box back in return for a thank you note, you know. And so just think, thinking of the things that you can't scale right, those human relationships that you can't scale, but by talking to leaders of other communities, you, you, you can't scale, but by talking to leaders of other communities, you really can scale them.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you shared that man, because that's music to my ears. I call that. You know that is so valuable right On many levels. One that sticks out to me particularly is that it's about your brand, your personal brand and your brand as your firm. You know, your brand is what people are saying when you're not, and so it's cool that you're going to do some, you know, refer some cases to her, but what's going to be more valuable is that she's going to take that message. She's going to be at a conference. You're not going to be there. They're going to say, hey, that dude, brian Glass, you familiar with him. Oh yeah, I know that firm, I do. Brian Glass, you familiar with him oh yeah, I know where that's from.
Speaker 1:And your credibility and your brand just increases from that, what I call a positive moment of truth. So my goal I'm doing everything at Javan, I love this stuff. My goal when I'm on the road, I'm looking for influencers and connectors right, but also I'm trying to have a positive moment of truth with everyone that I come into face with. I don't care if I'm headed into the restroom. I know it's pretty gross and I catch you on the way out. I want to look you in your eyes. I want to have a positive moment of truth with you. That's my goal, because it's all about your brand. It's all about brand awareness, brand recognition and brand separation, right as you continue to dominate and grow and scale your brand.
Speaker 2:Does that come naturally for you.
Speaker 1:It does, man. It's from how I was raised to be honest with you and you know I look at you, know a lot of what I do. Obviously it's very relational and it's a big push in the legal world, because most attorneys are transactional and I'm not picking on attorneys, but that's just how their mind works right. Acquisition costs First thing. I say, well, how much is that going to cost me?
Speaker 2:How much does the lead cost? What does it cost to make a loan rank?
Speaker 1:I'm not saying I'm going to let you see the farmhouse, but it sounds like a good thing. It's like a relational approach. Most firms they get caught up in why they don't stick to it and they quit their marketing or they keep changing. I know some folks they'll try everything that it wants, but it takes some patience. And then also you have to shift your part of the way that your mindset is. Marketing is not an expense, it's an investment.
Speaker 2:This is maybe this is full circle, but it's like, all right, you take some patience, you have to try things more than once, but then you also have this stop, start, continue, right, yes, and so what's your suggestion for how somebody knows when to stop something versus how they know when they haven't tried it for long enough?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a great question. That's a great question. So my rule of thumb is you can't just try anything for 30 days, right? Because you don't get enough time to actually work. So I think that you come with your marketing team and you guys. That's the first thing you do is we set KPIs on our marketing, right? We want to identify our performance indicators Look, look, look. User interface click throughs. You want to evaluate all this stuff, right, and collectively, together, we can say, okay, well, how is it performing? It's not something right.
Speaker 1:On the HubSpot, it actually attaches directly to your welcome page. It gives you that you probably get the same thing. You get that note and you say, okay, see that, brian, just, just, you know, you look at my stuff, that's cool. And so at that point that that's where we start making adjustments and assessments, right. When we go into like 60 days and in 90 days, I always say 90 days or something you can kind of, it's almost like an employee, I think that's here, but 90 days, I should start seeing some positive behaviors or, since you know, some returns, that I'm trending in the right direction. But when you get to that six month and you start pushing all it, like, you know you can help by making adjustments, but when you start hoping things along, that's when you run into the dangers. It goes back to that employee that you are. When you start hoping, just hoping that he or she gets it. You ran the course for a year and you're like darn, I got to do this all over. All right, send me what you want.
Speaker 2:Send me what you want. My coach just said this to me yesterday. Like you know, insanity is the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and just hoping for a different result.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, you get caught in the hope journey, man. It was still from Iraq, from definitely saturate some of your. You know, obviously your financials, but when it comes to marketing, just set forth expectations and that's why a lot of marketing are firms, because they don't. They don't really. Some firms don't understand marketing the way that you do, and so they just say, ok, I'm going to pay this money, I'm going to cross my fingers and hopefully that I get some leads and that's transactional.
Speaker 1:And you know, to make this work you have to be committed, you have to be anything that's going to be, you know, benefit you long-term and you're going to get out of it what you intend to get out of it. You have to show up, you have to put the work in. You know I was coaching football last night with my little 12-year-old team and we dropped the heart over the weekend double overtime and we look at film, right, little kids man. So you know they got so much more. You know just talking about, otherwise we break away. You know to go back home and I see, you know football's a game that you can't take any shortcuts. It'll expose you.
Speaker 1:But life's that same way, marketing's that same way. Yeah, yeah, you can be like I said. You can work with me. Just sit back and just tell other people to trust them that they're going to do the job that you would do for yourself. No, you have to be engaged. Anything that's going to work, just like your firm man. You guys both have such a firm Engagement and alignment. I don't mean to abuse them. In fact, there's an accomplice in that.
Speaker 2:People have to be perfectly aligned and engaged the same thing with your marketing. And you got to stay aligned, because this is what happens if somebody hires on a new marketing vendor, right, we have this conversation about what to expect. We don't actually get aligned on what the goals are and what the baby steps towards the goals are, and then the lawyer sits and he waits and he stews on not getting any phone calls, we don't say anything and it's worth the third month. We don't say anything and it's worth the fourth month, and then we fire them. Right, we're not ever having a conversation about how can we make this better. You know, hey, I paid you money. I expected the result coming and listen. It tracks across marketing. It tracks with employees. It tracks with CPAs. I'm working on my taxes now with my extension. It is just, I'm I'm working on my taxes now with my extension. Tracks of cpas. You know, it's all, it's all the same and it's all back to like. Hey, if you want the result like, you've got to actually be invested in it.
Speaker 2:I'm going to bring it full circle what you just said about the u12 football team. I'm having trouble connecting with a u11 soccer player right now. My best player. We've won on our first three games we blew out three bad teams and then we played a good team and played them tight. The first half, second half, they scored like four goals in five minutes. All of a sudden we're down 6-1. And this kid comes out and he just lays down on the sideline Like what am I going to do with this now? I can't put you back in, but I try to get in to manage what's going on in the field but also get into like mentality coaching mode with the kid laying down on the sideline. That's a total left turn from everything that we've been talking about. But it's the same with employees. Like you can't do that, you can't do the management, unless you've got the connection that's right man.
Speaker 1:The connection has to be there. You know there's a such thing as mental fatigue and I'm sure you're playing a little mental fatigue and that's fine. But you know, you assess, you reset, you get back on the horse, you know, and so that's why you've got to have these meetings.
Speaker 2:You set clear expectations and goals, what you're looking to the outcomes you're looking for, and then you manage to that. All right, so you are coming out to our event in.
Speaker 1:Phoenix to our event in Phoenix, which will be long past by the time that this airs. But you're also putting on the Motorcycle Accident Summit. Yeah, man, we're very excited about it. This is our second annual I would say our second event the Motorcycle Accident Summit. That's taking place in Orlando, florida, at the Conrad Hotel on March 5th through the 7th 2025. We're doing this in partnership with the National Trial Lawyers. Everyone knows National Trial trial lawyers are the best in the business and our first event was in Savannah this year and it was a really great event. I'm not just saying that because it's our event, but we had some of the best speakers. We had some top litigators across the country and some of the best experts. That really supports and helps us in our area of business. But we'd love to see you out there. It is a unique opportunity to really understand how to take motorcycle cases and take those state cases and work them to completion of settlement and also how to litigate those cases. So it's a lot of good information. We'd love to see you there.
Speaker 2:Or how to send them to somebody that knows how to litigate them Because motorcycle cases are different, trucking cases are different and if you're handling wills and criminal cases and a family law case and then a big motorcycle crash gets in your office, somehow send it to somebody who knows what they're doing, please.
Speaker 1:Everybody a favor, absolutely. That's great. A lot of people say, oh, motorcycle attorneys know. In fact, a number of attorneys were motorcycle attorneys. No, in fact, a number of attorneys were motorcycle attorneys. There were attorneys that just really understand the value of serious injuries and how the animals case. And now we get more. We have some exceptional marketing experts at that ratio stages as well Amazing. So I'm going to make sure that you get it done and you go to these conferences. A lot of times. People give you a high-level presentation and you walk. You go back home and you're like, oh shit, this is a lot of great stuff they're talking about and they show me how we're all about showing how man and we do that at Law Tigers man, we have no secrets.
Speaker 1:The more we can share because we understand. We can show you how, but it's really well. It boils down to it's executed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly All. If you're interested in going to the Motorcycle Accident Summit, lawtigerscom, dave, where else can people find out about you?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So LawTigerscom is for our kind of consumer side, the marketing website. If you want to learn a little bit more about what we do, what I do, it's LawTigersMarketingcom. You'll see a map of our availability across the country. But also, you know, we host a library of videos and just great content. So visit lawtigersmarketingcom and I'm open book. I'm at daveatlawtigerscom. That's D-A-V-E at lawtigerscom. Shoot me a quick email. I'd love to hear from you. We can talk anything legal marketing. I'm here for you.
Speaker 2:All right, brother, thanks for coming on, and I'll see you in a couple of days.
