Life Beyond the Briefs
At Life Beyond the Briefs we help lawyers like you become less busy, make more money, and spend more time doing what they want instead of what they have to. Brian brings you guests from all walks of life are living a life of their own design and are ready to share actionable tips for how you can begin to live your own dream life.
Life Beyond the Briefs
The Happy Lawyer's Guide to Mental Health & Work-Life Balance | Catherine Shearer
Being a lawyer doesn’t have to mean long hours, constant stress, and zero time for yourself. But in personal injury law—especially in Ontario—the pressure to keep up can feel overwhelming.
In this episode of Life Beyond the Briefs, Brian Glass sits down with Catherine Shearer, a personal injury and long-term disability lawyer from Guelph, Canada, and host of The Happy Lawyer Podcast. Catherine shares her journey from general litigation to personal injury law, the challenges of Ontario’s hybrid system, and why prioritizing mental health is critical for long-term success.
They discuss:
- Why personal injury practices take years to become profitable—and how to manage the wait
- The impact of burnout in the legal profession and how to avoid it
- How setting boundaries and delegating effectively can transform your law firm
- Balancing work, family, and self-care without sacrificing your career
If you’ve ever felt stuck in the grind and wondered if there’s a better way to practice law, this episode is for you. Tune in now!
🔗 Connect with Catherine Shearer:
🎙 Listen to The Happy Lawyer Podcast – https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/the-happy-lawyer-podcast/id1513076197
📍 Learn more about her work – https://www.catherineshearer.ca/
📲 Follow her on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-shearer-062434a6/
✉️ Contact her – shearer@mckenzielake.com
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Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer in Fairfax, Virginia. He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field. This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.
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I really did love my job. I loved everything about it. I just didn't like the way that I was doing it. So that set me off on a path when I moved firms to set up my practice so that it worked for me and not vice versa, and that was wildly successful. I had a lot of free time, I had managed my stress levels and things were just going really, really well and I was having fun again.
Speaker 2:Hey friends, welcome back to Life Beyond the Briefs, the podcast for lawyers who want to build a law firm and a life on their own terms. Most attorneys think grinding harder is the only way to succeed in personal injury law. Spoiler alert, it's not. Today I'm sitting down with Catherine Shearer, a personal injury lawyer from Guelph Canada, who's on a mission to help lawyers rethink success. We're diving into why mental health isn't optional, how to set boundaries without guilt and why delegation is the secret weapon for building a thriving law practice without working yourself into the ground. If you're tired of the burnout cycle and ready to create a career that actually fits your life, this episode is for you. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, welcome back to Life Beyond the Brief, the number one podcast for lawyers choosing to live lives of their own design and not be slaves to their legal practice, for lack of a better term. Today we're talking about mental health and the law. My guest is Catherine Shearer, who's a personal injury and long-term disability lawyer from Guelph, canada, which is just outside of Ontario, crossing the border and talking primarily to US-based players, although we do have a small international crowd about mental health and the law. Catherine, welcome to the show, thank you, I'm excited to be here. Thank you, I'm excited to be here. I'm excited for you to be here also.
Speaker 2:You and I kind of circled each other for maybe like six or nine months leading up to the Great Legal Marketing Summit which was in Arizona last October 2024. You came down to sunny Arizona and joined our Hero Mastermind group and I've gotten to know you a little bit. But why don't you tell the people listening a little bit about your practice group and I've gotten to know you a little bit, but why don't you tell the people listening a little bit about your practice?
Speaker 1:yeah, so, as you said, I'm just outside of Toronto, in Ontario, practicing mainly car accidents, long-term disability claims, and it's a interesting kind of how it started is I did my in Canada.
Speaker 1:We have to do articling.
Speaker 1:So I did that and my summer student like my second year law school summer job in a PI firm I kind of thought that I wanted to practice in that realm because of some personal stories of incidents that happened with my family members, and so I focused, I went all in for a little bit on that and then I had a little bit of a freak out and I was like whoa, am I sure that I want to pigeonhole my career so early on?
Speaker 1:So I went to general litigation and it was about three months before I was like no, I hate this and I'm really meant to be a personal injury lawyer. And so I started up a practice from scratch in probably late 2015 and then kind of bounced around a bit. So I started it at a firm that didn't do any PI and then I moved it over to another firm where I was working with another lawyer and then kind of was completely on my own early, I think, just beginning of 2020. So on my own in terms of running my own practice, not getting any supplemental work from anybody and just doing my thing.
Speaker 2:What did you hate about general litigation?
Speaker 1:I just didn't feel very meaningful to me. So a lot of it was you know construction deficiencies or loans, or you know new builds, that the timelines get extended and everybody's just arguing over money or crooked kitchen cabinets and at the end of the day I'm like this isn't the same level of meaning as a personal injury case, especially in Ontario where we're on board for anywhere from two, three, four, five years with that family working with them closely, and it's just much more rewarding to do that.
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk about that, because that is a unique aspect, as I'm learning of canadian personal injury law is that you really don't have what we would call like a soft tissue small injury case and, as far as I can tell, it's there are certain provinces that have eliminated personal injury as practice areas altogether. So what's the lay of the land in Ontario?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So Ontario is unique because it has a hybrid system. So there's a no fault for car accidents and the ability to sue, but your ability to sue is really restricted in terms of what types of cases that you can sue in. And what I mean by that is that there's a threshold first of all, and that threshold means you must have a serious and permanent disability that impairs your ability to go to work, go to school or all the activities of your daily living. So you have something that's ongoing and essentially is going to prevent you from returning to work, or returning to work without significant modifications, or there is a line of work that is now closed to you. So if you were a general laborer but you also had an education and then you became more sedentary, you could get some losses, but you're going to make up your income, so there's not a lot.
Speaker 1:And then the second thing that prevents lawsuits in Ontario is a threshold. After we sorry deductible. Once we reach the threshold, there's also a deductible on pain and suffering damages. Currently it's 46 000 and change so nearly 50 000. It goes up every year with inflation. And so if you are awarded $100,000 for your pain and suffering, the first $46,000 and change doesn't get paid to you and the jury. These are jury trials. They don't get to know that that exists we cannot.
Speaker 2:Do you have insurance policy coverage limit problems in this world where you have to be catastrophically injured in order to bring a claim? It seems to me that it would be unfair then to allow somebody to drive around with $25 or $50 or even $100,000 of coverage, and so is the coverage really high, or is the system kind of unfairly stacked against the person who's injured?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we like to think that it's not enough, because we did have some changes in 2016, which reduced the limits on your catastrophic impairments on the accident benefit side from $2 million to $1 million, and then, on the lawsuit side, everyone has to have mandatory $1 million coverage and we are seeing more often now that there's $2 million and most trucking companies have at least five.
Speaker 2:And as I joke with Kendall Pollitt, who's a lawyer in the Icon Group, those are $2 million Canadian dollars.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Which is not really the same as $2 million US. But I would be happy with a practice area where everybody was driving around with $1 million in Canadian, or either in Canadian or US coverage. Virginia has just recently updated our statute. Now the minimum that you can buy is $50,000 and by default it's stacked. So we've gone from. You know and what I mean by that is by default your underinsured coverage now stacks on top of the liability.
Speaker 2:So we've gone from a world where four years ago you could have had a $25, low coverage limits and contributory negligence was a bar to the claim. So if you're 1% at fault, you don't recover anything, which kept big firms out of it. But now, even though you still have contributory negligence, now the minimum viable case is probably worth $100,000. It's a very, very different landscape. You have the opposite problem in your camp. If you were to open a new injury practice, you would not expect to make any money really for two or three or four years, because the claim has to go on for so long from the date of the crash in order to meet those catastrophic thresholds.
Speaker 1:That's right, and so it's typically. You know, if everything goes well and you don't end up in trial, it's about 36 months.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Starting from scratch is a big pan.
Speaker 2:So the game plan has to be, I think you're taking over another lawyer's practice, or you're joining a firm with an established injury practice, or you're independently wealthy and money doesn't matter for three years.
Speaker 1:Correct. So what I did was I straddled both worlds for a while. So I started the PI, started taking on cases, knowing full well I wasn't going to get compensated for those, and deferring, like my bonuses, because I would never make the billing threshold to get a bonus at the same time working on those general litigation cases so that I did have, you know, some contribution to the firm that I was working at until it hit that point where it tipped, where I had too many PI cases to actually focus on doing the work. And that's when I really needed to make that pivot to join a firm that had other PI lawyers so that they weren't all bottlenecked at the same stage, because basically that's what happens when you start out. So that did allow me to work on other PI files, get some credits for that, as my practice continued to grow and give me a sense of the size of the caseload that you're carrying right now.
Speaker 1:Right now we have about 135.
Speaker 2:Wow, Wow. In a relatively small legal community, as you've described it to me because you told me there's maybe one other injury lawyer or injury practice in town you have 135 catastrophically injured.
Speaker 1:Well, not every case is a catastrophic case. So in Ontario you have to meet a very specific test to meet the catastrophic designation, and so there are certainly a number of catastrophic cases within that. And then the other ones are what you could I mean from a non-policy perspective deemed to be catastrophic because their ability to work has been impacted for the rest of their lives. But if they don't meet that specific definition under the statutory accident benefits, then they're not entitled to that increase in benefits and really we're just recovering income losses and then obviously they're entitled to pay and suffering at that point. And then there's a whole pocket of cases where the insurance companies call it threshold defensible and they're saying they don't meet the threshold. We're saying they do, and we kind of settle somewhere in the interim or end up taking those ones to trial.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that we encounter when we're talking to potential clients in Virginia is, like the myths that people know about their cases right Cases where three times your medical bills or these cases are really simple or the insurance company, no matter what their policy limit is, owes you for whatever your insurance coverage was. I imagine that you have similar problems up there because you have this very narrow and different by province set of definitions that you have to make. It really seems like it would dovetail very nicely with the long-term disability practice where you're taking the medical treatment from the doctor and the medical history from the doctor and you're weaving it into what that policy says about the definition of disability. And so how much of the work is navigating like has your doctor said exactly the right thing about your injury so that we meet these very specific guidelines to get over the thresholds?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really interesting point. So typically your own doctors aren't going to be able to give an opinion on the thresholds. Yeah, that's a really interesting point. So typically your own doctors aren't going to be able to give an opinion on the legal tests. So there's assessment centers that are doing specific catastrophic impairment assessments and they are familiar with the legal landscape that has to go into that and we will be spending on the lawsuit side of things and we will be spending on the lawsuit side of things tens of thousands of dollars on expert reports to get a med legal to say that they actually meet that legal test and that they're not going to get better and it's going to impact their ability to do their job for the rest of their lives. So the catastrophic assessment reports are you $25,000. And then on the tort side it's about $10,000 a report, or?
Speaker 2:so let's pivot a little bit and talk about your podcast, the Happy Lawyer Project, which you're resurrecting now after a brief hiatus. So how did that podcast come about and what is it about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it came out in about 2020. I think that's when the podcast started and it came about because prior to that, I think, I moved firms in 2017. And leading up to that, I had really burned myself out In every sense of the matter. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder that was triggered by stress disorder that my doctor said was triggered by stress and I was miserable, absolutely totally miserable, and at the time I was like, okay, I am going to. I'm going to do two things. One, I'm going to find a better environment for my practice, because the place that I was at it wasn't a terrible environment. It just wasn't designed for a personal injury practice, and it was a really hard decision because I loved the people that I worked with so much, but I knew long term that it wasn't sustainable and I certainly needed more support in terms of staff and people that were more familiar with the whole PI world, and so that was one of the considerations, considerations, and so the other thing that I did at that same time is we had I had him on my podcast, I think fairly more like more recent than when I had reached out to him, but he was a lawyer that became a social worker and I reached out to him and I was like I don't know what's going on, but like I hate everything about the law, I'm going to give this new opportunity a shot and if it doesn't work out I'm just going to quit being a lawyer. And so in our one brief conversation I think we talked on the phone for maybe half an hour 40 minutes and he helped me realize that I really did love my job.
Speaker 1:I loved everything about it. I just didn't like the way that I was doing it. So that set me off on a path when I moved firms to set up my practice so that it worked for me and not vice versa, and that was wildly successful. I had a lot of free time, I had managed my stress levels and things were just going really, really well and I was having fun again.
Speaker 1:And as I kind of came to the other side of that burnout and stressful period, I had a lot of conversations with people that had gone through the same thing but felt very isolated and lonely going through it. And that's why I decided to start the podcast is because there's a lot of people that have been there, they've done that, they've gone through it and they got to the other side. Or there's a lot of people that I talked to that made the decision to leave law because they didn't think that that was a career for them and now that they figured out how to live a more meaningful life, they regret that decision and I was like, oh, we can help people, and so just talking about it and making it available as more of the discourse in law was the original goal of that podcast.
Speaker 2:What are some examples of things that you changed in your practice to go from?
Speaker 1:you know, I really don't enjoy working in the law in this manner. To being a happy lawyer. First of all, it was, you know, paying attention to health and so making sure that that was a priority and taking care of myself first and making sure, because you can't, you know, pour it from an empty cup and the cup was definitely empty. So that was one of the more important things, and with that came setting a lot of boundaries in what you were going to do. So working 80-hour, work weeks wasn't conducive to a healthy mentality.
Speaker 1:Both showing up at work and taking that almost like allowing yourself to take pause and rest and live more intentionally, like these are the things that I'm going to do. These are the things that I'm not going to do. Setting up some more procedures and systems within the practice so that people didn't always have to ask me questions constantly throughout the day. It was okay, this is how we do it. We do it the same every time. I also had to learn how to delegate better and not micromanage, because that was burning a lot of energy, that wasn't very helpful for anybody, and just that kind of thing. And being able to have the flexibility to work from home some days. Not have to do all the grind at the time, because there was also a lot like healing from the autoimmune flare, was a challenge in and of itself.
Speaker 2:That's the number one thing that I'm working on this year is the delegation piece. Like how do you, without micromanaging somebody, without feeling like you're micromanaging, how do you teach somebody to go into the world and get this answer to this specific legal problem and then do something with it right? So go like in our world? It's like, hey, we got this report back from a doctor. It's not very good because it's kind of generic and it seems to support what we want it to support. But we know that under cross-examination, that doctor probably isn't going to say and agree to all the things that he just kind of glossed over. So what I need for you to do is go back to the doctor and ask him these very specific questions.
Speaker 2:I'm like, if yes, then it moves along on this track and if no, then we got to have a hard conversation with the client about, well, we probably have to withdraw from this case because your doctor doesn't actually support it, and being able to delegate that to somebody else without it winding up back on your desk halfway done a week and a half later and three days before it's due. That, I think, is the skill that so many lawyers that are 10 to 15 years into the practice and want to be able to scale beyond one who's always doing all of the things needs to have. And so how would you begin to manage and I know that you have a new associate or a new, she's a new lawyer or she, maybe she's new to you, I forget how do you begin to manage and train that set of skills?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So with that, especially if it's medical records or expert opinions, we already have precedents and sets like if this happens, then do this, and it's kind of written down in the policies. And sets like if this happens, then do this, and it's kind of written down in the policies. Um, and, to be honest, the associate that I'm working with is such a superstar that she would just come to me be like here's what I think we should do this, this and this. Do you agree? And it's simple, yes or no, and it only takes a few minutes of time.
Speaker 1:But having that structure in place because we already know what we're looking for and we have a team meeting weekly where we bring forward any of the specific questions that need to be answered in terms of this doesn't have any direction. There's no checklist for this, it's not in the policy, there's no manual for this. What do we do? And then we try and go back and add it into some form of policy so that if it comes up again we don't have to continuously have those same discussions or if team members change.
Speaker 2:Here's the…. You know, the thing that's kind of left unsaid in that answer is if you have somebody that isn't in that space, are they going to come to you with the suggestions and then ask if you do agree or disagree? Like, maybe it's not your responsibility to train that person and to move them along? Right, the world is full of good lawyers that you could work with, good lawyers that you could work with, and, to your point about leaving an environment that doesn't work for you, one of the things that we have to take responsibility for in our lives is owners of law firms, partners in law firms surrounding ourselves, with the team that can elevate us to do our highest and best use without having to train every single project employee that comes your way.
Speaker 1:I think that point goes back to. You know the core values of the practice and it's easy to check in. I can think of one time where someone wasn't maybe living up to those expectations that we were able to correct it by setting like this is what your expectation is.
Speaker 2:One time there's been lots of employees, it was one time where we were able to put in the time and the energy and say this is what the expectation is yeah, let's say, you know, we talk about performance improvement plans a lot and, like it or not, the goal is rarely to get somebody's improvement, performance to improve right, it's to document here's all the problems, so so that I can get you, you know, ideally so that I can get you to improve. But having had these conversations now for going on 17 years, it rarely happens. I think I told you when you were down here about the employee who I had who was on an improvement plan that was 90 days long, which, by the way, is way too long. And at day 30, like hey, just like, so we're clear, I need you to be showing up for work on time. Day 60, you're still not checking the box. Cause I need you here on time.
Speaker 2:Day 75, cause this is the first employee that I had fired and I sat down with her and I said listen, I want to make sure that I've done absolutely everything that I can to communicate to you that you being here on time is is an issue for me, right?
Speaker 2:And I actually don't care what time you get here, as long as you tell me what time you're going to be here and you're there at that time and the very next day she was like 17 minutes late and she walked in and we let her go and um, and it was my fault because I didn't call her and just tell her. If I knew that I was going to fire her, I should have called her and told her to save her the commute to work. I'm like I didn't know that the day after we had this conversation you were going to be 17 minutes late, uh, which for a long time led me to the conclusion that you can only raise people like so far. Right, if, if I can't get, um, I can't get you to take accountability and ownership in your own life, or just showing up when you say you're going to show up, I can be the greatest trainer and mentor in the world, but it ain't going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that one's pretty basic. I can understand when you need assistance with some of the more complex things that you're doing in your job. There really is a learning curve to it. Showing up to work on time isn't one of those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it is. It's really hard to let somebody go. I think that's one of the toughest parts of the job.
Speaker 2:Well, it is hard, especially in a small firm, right, because I mean I've only got 17 people on the roof and a handful overseas. But they're friends with each other and the thing is that when you do have to let somebody go often their friend has been covering for them for a long lawyers and everybody who's around you setting those boundaries and setting the expectations the more happy you'll be in your practice.
Speaker 1:Agreed, having the right people surrounding you is one of the most important parts of having a good practice that supports everybody and everybody loves showing up to work in the morning and that requires these conversations. And I think that the accountability piece of checking in often and frequently in a team collaborative environment not like, hey are you doing your job, but where are we at Making sure that things are moving forward according to the timelines that you've set is a game changer, because things don't slide four months at a time if you're checking in weekly.
Speaker 2:And I think that environment of who's around you is really what causes so many lawyers good lawyers to leave the law right. Either you have a supervisor who you don't get along with, who doesn't communicate effectively and then sets you up for failure, or you elevate yourself to that partner position. But you've never been trained on how to surround yourself with people who can support you and, to your point earlier, like we've never been trained on delegation. Um, you know, uh, you can, you can listen to all the podcasts and you can read all the books on on how to delegate, but ultimately it's's your communication skill about what results you want and what you can accept back from the person and then holding them accountable when they don't meet those expectations that really drives the success or failure of any of those relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that. I also think there's a piece of it where you do have to be a good leader and nobody teaches you that in law school. Either you just kind of show up and you start doing your work and then you know you're a couple years into practice and all of a sudden you're responsible for managing staff and nobody's taught you how to do that. And if you don't have a good example or you don't put in the work to do it, it can be hard, especially if there isn't constant open communication and clear expectations. It's really hard to meet somebody's expectations if you don't know what they are.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I see that especially you know some of colleagues or peers. They have challenging circumstances with staff but nobody knows what they're supposed to be doing or whose responsibility. Like, am I supposed to do that? I thought you were going to do that, and so it is one part of learning how to lead people.
Speaker 2:What are you doing outside of your legal practice to maintain balance and to find escape from the everyday of dealing with people who have serious, life-changing injuries?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I have two kids that are five and two, so that takes up a good part and that really rips you right out of your reality of work life and just into the thick of parenting. So the evenings and weekends, you know, we're filled with sports and birthday parties and really it's a busy time of year or life. I should say it's a busy season, which is challenging because for me the key to my well-being is alone time, like I like to just shut it down, I like silence and just to be very reflective, for, you know, an hour or two, and that's really hard when you have a busy time.
Speaker 2:How can you be silent and reflective for an hour or two with kids that are your kids' age? Where are you going to do that?
Speaker 1:so what we, what I try and do and it doesn't always work is my two-year-old is not a great sleeper right now. She requires someone to be with her, so we got her a big bed and I've been co-sleeping with her, or we'll switch off, my husband and I, but I'll try and get up at four or five. Just get that out of the way first thing in the morning. That's also when I'm the most creative and it allows me to do some of like the fun projects that I like doing, like the podcast and writing. My husband asked me the other day he's like when are you going to start painting again? Because I used to paint and I think I managed to do it when I had one kid. I haven't managed to do it with two. Um, and then also, you know, fit in uh, yoga, meditation, the gym. I like to do uh like workshops or retreats where you do like somatic breathing exercises, cold plunges, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Um mostly cause it's fun and it's a lot of stress.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you I found that really challenging. I just had this Facebook memory come up of my must have been then five and three-year-old, downstairs with me at five. They were early risers. They would be up at five every day. It's like you're supposed to get up so you have an hour of quiet time before the kids wake up, and that was never happening in my house.
Speaker 2:So I found that period of my life where you didn't have control over what time everybody else was going to get up and interfere with your, your plan day or your quiet time, or your coffee and journaling or whatever. That was a really, really hard time, and so I found my best quiet thinking time was like out on a trail running no music or, to your point, about like getting away right, going to conferences, staying for an extra day so that you are not rushing back from. Okay, conference ends at noon, I'm hopping on a plane at 3, and then I'm back at home dealing with everything that's gone wrong over the last four days since I've been out of here. So you actually have a little bit of planning time so that you can then delegate all that stuff to somebody else on your team so that it can be done.
Speaker 2:But yeah, my kids now are 11, 9, and 6, and the 6-year-old is. He wakes up early but we've got him trained he stays in his room until his little red light, yellow light, green light thing comes on. Actually, we caught him yesterday. We were coming, he was up early, I was coming back up the stairs and I could see his light in his room was on and he turned it off when he heard me coming. So there is an end in sight to that period.
Speaker 1:Thank goodness. It's still tricky with the youngest, my daughter. So if I get up at four, she's still sound asleep. In order to do that, I have to go to bed at eight. I need a lot of sleep, which is fine because I'm usually going to bed with her and that's usually her bedtime. But if I wait to five, like if I happen to get that extra night, or I'll still, as much as I try and you know, manage stress I still often wake up at about one or two in the morning and I'll be up for an hour or two and so on those nights.
Speaker 1:If I sleep in till 5 or 5.30, I try and sneak out of the room Still like squeak out quiet as a mouse, and half the time still she's like Mom. She will have an absolute meltdown if I leave. So I try to make deals with her before bed, like I will only stay with you if you let me get up early. Is that a deal? Or this morning I think it was I woke her up when I was leaving and I said here's the deal I'll get my coffee and just come back in here while you sleep. Okay, deal. So it's not always easy, you're right.
Speaker 1:And to fit in with the gym and everything else that you have to fit in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you know, I think appreciating this is just a stage of life and it's a chapter and it is what it is for a little bit of time. Then it'll resolve itself probably and you can, you know, go back to that lifestyle and morning by design, when she's sleeping a little bit better, and it helps that they're really cute, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. All right, well, I think this is maybe a good place to leave this. When is your podcast next season coming back out?
Speaker 1:That's a great question. I would say, it's any day now.
Speaker 2:Any day now.
Speaker 1:I've got two episodes that are recorded and edited. I just need to go back and post them, and when I started podcasting in 2020, there weren't as many resources available or I didn't know about them. I just kind of Googled. You know, what are most people using right now? In five years, that has changed a lot, so there are some things that I'm planning on changing so it's less laborious to get these things out, but that's where we're at All right, then, don't let me screw up, it's the Happy Lawyer Podcast.
Speaker 2:I couldn't remember if it was project or podcast. Happy Lawyer Podcast? All right, check out the Happy Lawyer Podcast. You can find Catherine on LinkedIn. Is there anywhere else that you want to direct people?
Speaker 1:LinkedIn is mostly where I would spend most of my time, and there was a happylawyerca. We've taken the site down. We're redamping that as well, so that will be coming soon as well.
Speaker 2:Perfect, all right. Thank you for coming on today. You're very welcome.
